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Stri
12-07-2005, 02:21 AM
@stri, i looked into this before for a project that didnt happen and decided thinking particles looked the best bet, if you check it out there are some movies online showing this sort of effect. Maybe you could do it in Pflow but would prob be alot harder to get the same quality:sad:
Im sure Allan Mckay would know?

http://www.cebas.com/products/feature.php?UD=10-7888-33-788&PID=15&FID=76

you're right canwood. Thingking Particles seem to be my best option. But my pocket doesn't have room for a new max plugin this holiday. So I think I'm just gonna look for a workaround. Hmmm... I wonder what Allan Mckay has to say about this. :D

avolution
12-07-2005, 06:18 AM
just to say... PAGE 200 in PF thread !! woohoooooooooo!! :))


Whooaaaaa!

Yippee Yiii Yaaaaa!


(Maybe this will take us to Page 201...know in a second...)

amckay
12-09-2005, 12:39 AM
hey guys, honestly I think you'll run into a lot of issues with tp. it's not all it's cracked up to be sometimes. For the superbowls stuff we did last year we tried to do this and basically couldn't be done, I know BLURP makes out it's easy, but outside of blurp it's impossible. Well at least before it had scripting support, maybe now.

pflow what you'd do is fragment it and have it capture all the transform info into a channel, then have it move into a new event of where you want it to start, and have it use a find target that reads that scripted info to move back into it's original info you stored in a channel or array.

oh also got an email back from turbosquid, shouldn't be too much longer now (DVD)

Neejoh
12-09-2005, 12:45 AM
hey guys, honestly I think you'll run into a lot of issues with tp. it's not all it's cracked up to be sometimes. For the superbowls stuff we did last year we tried to do this and basically couldn't be done, I know BLURP makes out it's easy, but outside of blurp it's impossible. Well at least before it had scripting support, maybe now.

pflow what you'd do is fragment it and have it capture all the transform info into a channel, then have it move into a new event of where you want it to start, and have it use a find target that reads that scripted info to move back into it's original info you stored in a channel or array.

oh also got an email back from turbosquid, shouldn't be too much longer now (DVD)
I guess movies like Blade boosted TP higher into the market, but things I've read (not only from Allan) makes me never wanna use that plugin in my life....

That's good to know Allan, can't wait! Btw, how are things over @ TurboS? Did they move or did they stay in the same building?

Daniel-B
12-09-2005, 06:09 AM
Excellent, Allan. I look forward to purchasing your new DVD. I know you are a busy man, but I don't suppose you could post a few samples?

canwood58
12-09-2005, 04:48 PM
[QUOTE=Neejoh]I guess movies like Blade boosted TP higher into the market, but things I've read (not only from Allan) makes me never wanna use that plugin in my life....


I almost wanna buy it just to see how bad it is! it intrigues me.

Cant wait for the new DVD Allan, seems like ive been waiting forever! :D

r_mc_gowan
12-09-2005, 10:20 PM
What is the shortcut key in 3ds max to open particle view??

scrimski
12-09-2005, 10:25 PM
It's the '6' by default.

r_mc_gowan
12-09-2005, 11:22 PM
thanks scrimski!

r_mc_gowan
12-10-2005, 06:03 PM
is there an online reference guide / tutorial site dedicated to pflow?

r_mc_gowan
12-10-2005, 08:52 PM
my particles arent rendering !!! whats going wrong?!?

feldy
12-10-2005, 08:56 PM
it seems to me you should open up the max tourtials and go from there. if its not rendering there probaly isent a shape node in it.

r_mc_gowan
12-10-2005, 09:00 PM
iv followed the tutorials, they just arent rendering!

im following allan mckays tutorial on the teapot dispersion, everything is set up, its just the particles arent rendering. please help

wscates
12-10-2005, 09:10 PM
Did you apply a shape operator?

r_mc_gowan
12-10-2005, 09:14 PM
yeah, and it still isnt rendering :(

Neejoh
12-10-2005, 11:22 PM
yeah, and it still isnt rendering :(
Could you give us some more info? We can't really work with "it doesn't do what I want" you know :)

Maybe a screenshot of your events?

If you are using a Shape facing, do you have a camera?
If you are using another shape, what kind of shader are you using?

Bezerker75
12-11-2005, 01:42 AM
does anyone know if it is possible to use peter watje's "particle combustion with particle flow? thanks in advance!

r_mc_gowan
12-11-2005, 03:10 AM
its ok now, i had the shape node in the wrong operator :( i was trying to have the particles just draw pixels, like sand. thanks anyways! sorry for the incovenience.

jigu
12-11-2005, 03:11 AM
iv followed the tutorials, they just arent rendering!

im following allan mckays tutorial on the teapot dispersion, everything is set up, its just the particles arent rendering. please help

Removed...
EDIT ::: he already solved it when i posted.

amckay
12-13-2005, 01:24 AM
Yeah I know - seems like it's taken forever, but just really bad timing. Not sure if I mentioned this but I got an email from turbosquid last week, seems they're all working hard on it right now. I believe the studio I'm doing work for shuts down for two weeks over xmas, with the exception of one week that I'm doing a 3d world magazine article - I'll have a spare week to beside from get drunk, spend a bit of time getting back on top of things. I plan to launch Catastrophic officially first week of feb, so a lot to do before then!

Did anyone go to Digital Media Festival last week in Sydney? It went really well, I had to do a talk on the main stage first day, which I quickly learnt not to build a very big video intensive talk and then only on the last day try it out on your laptop, so I quickly made enemies with powerpoint that day. But aside from that everything went well, I also demo'd a few new things I've done, one being a scene from the new DVD at the autodesk demonstration later that day.

RE: TP - I'm probably going to use it on the project I'm on right now, only for one pass. Purely as I'd like to take advantage of it's shape collision particles, although pflow box set 2 has that so nothing fancy.

Hope everyone's going well! Been a bit awal lately unfortunately. Hey has anyone built an arcade machine before btw? I bought the x-arcade panel ($300 AUD) and I'm going to hire a cabinet maker in jan to build up my mame arcade ;)

DaForce
12-13-2005, 01:44 AM
amckay:
Hhehe i got an x-arcade as well :)

My friend who used to own an arcade (which i work at) built up his own mame type machine... he actualy used it for racing games, so he had one of the smaller race game cabinets with wheel, seat.. pedals... the works and redid all the wireing so that he was able to plug his computer in and use all the features of the cabinet.
And i believe he also moded a 2 player stand up street fighter cabinet to work with his pc as well for Mame stuff.

I plan to modify my x-arcade (which I havnt played for awhile) cause im not all that fond on the joysticks that are supplied with it.
I also bought the xbox and gamecube adapter, great for playing 4P mario kart when you only have 2 GC controllers :thumbsup:

PeteDraper
12-28-2005, 03:33 AM
...I'm doing a 3d world magazine article

heheheh you got roped into that aswell?? :D

bloody hell, seems like an age since I've been on here. Sod-all time, daft deadlines and excessive workload. But still managed to pull a few hours today from doing sod all to update the education section of the site with a few new papers... the blood spatter on a wall / "101 ways to blow your brains out in max" one should interest you guys ;) Call it a late xmas present, but with added goo :D:D:D

finally got around to updating the dte book too after muchos pressure from the publisher... it's gonna get a second edition release with some new tutorials including a heavy 100% procedural sun surface / solar flare system that you might find interesting. I'll post some results once I've finished recording the extra dvdrom video tutorials if anyone's interested.

p

ps anyone here in the uk going to animex this year??

jigu
12-28-2005, 04:25 AM
Happy new year guys!!

And pete i wanna say that there r just gr8 stuff u posted on ur site!!!

Thanks very much for posting it!!!(was waiting for a long time)

:buttrock:

DaForce
12-28-2005, 09:47 AM
PeteDraper (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=6205):

Great tuts you got there man!!
A little heads up... the link that you have for the resources file for the Bullet Impacts tut is linked wrong. Its link to the pseudohdri resource zip file.
I managed to get the bullet impacts file anyway by working out its filename but thought you should know :-)

Keep up the great work. vbmenu_register("postmenu_2939121", true);

PeteDraper
12-28-2005, 12:01 PM
heheheh... yeah I got a mail through from someone about that. Sorted now :)

cheers and enjoy!

p

DaForce
12-28-2005, 12:10 PM
hehehe cool :thumbsup: Thank again, great tuts.. woud love more pflow ones :)

Hook
12-29-2005, 02:03 PM
Hmmm i have a problem.

im making a disperse test, inspired by allanmckay's tutorial where he makes a teapot dissapere, but im making it in Pflow.

i uset af position object operater set to birthe by grayscale and it works fine in the viewport but when i render the scene, it works fine in the start of the render, but when half of the teapot i invisible the particles stops "growing"

any help?

here is the scene

GumTree
12-30-2005, 02:08 AM
Hello Hook,

Had a quick look at your file. Setting Particle Amount to 200000 or more in the System Management rollout for your emitter will probably solve the problem.

It is set to 100000 in your file while your birth operator asks for 200000. It works in the viewport because only 10% is shown.

Hope this answer gets to you "in time" because my posts usually end up on the board quite late because they still need to be approved be a moderator. Guess I should post more...

Good luck,

Rogier

Daniel-B
12-30-2005, 04:54 AM
Pete, I've got your first DTE book, great stuff.

However, on my behalf, could you throw in that geyer tutorial you told me about into your new book. I still struggle off and on trying to create a 300m high lava geyer, so a tutorial like that in the second DTE book would be awesome. Just a suggestion.

veluri
12-30-2005, 07:13 AM
hey guys, honestly I think you'll run into a lot of issues with tp. it's not all it's cracked up to be sometimes. For the superbowls stuff we did last year we tried to do this and basically couldn't be done, I know BLURP makes out it's easy, but outside of blurp it's impossible. Well at least before it had scripting support, maybe now.




I am a TP user... and to do this FX is very simple (in TP) here is an exemple ;)

(clik on pic to see movies)
http://kavkazstudio.com/mov/bring2pos-02.jpg (http://kavkazstudio.com/mov/bring2pos-02.mov)

:) you can do same technique with complicated shapes too.

Hook
12-30-2005, 10:04 AM
Had a quick look at your file. Setting Particle Amount to 200000 or more in the System Management rollout for your emitter will probably solve the problem.

It is set to 100000 in your file while your birth operator asks for 200000. It works in the viewport because only 10% is shown.



:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Ofcourse why ditten i think of that.............works fine now, thanks for the help:beer:

PeteDraper
12-30-2005, 11:57 AM
Pete, I've got your first DTE book, great stuff.

However, on my behalf, could you throw in that geyer tutorial you told me about into your new book. I still struggle off and on trying to create a 300m high lava geyer, so a tutorial like that in the second DTE book would be awesome. Just a suggestion.

I'm still undecided which one to go for... the geyser or lava eruption as even though the initial emission effect is similar, the behaviour of the particles differ once they're in the air. I should know which one I'm going to do by later on today as I'm having a play with the scene later on so I can record the tutorials next week.

p

DaForce
12-30-2005, 12:03 PM
Was hoping someone could help me with a little problem im having making snow for a snowglobe.
Any idea what would cause the PF source update for a single frame render to take ages.. like over an hour and still only be at 66%. (2000 particles rendering as spheres)
Its a fairly simple scene (basically a snowglobe)
So i have the globe itself, the ground mesh with has a noise mod and is slightly meshsmooth, as well as about 10 teapots within the globe itself...
Now the glass, the ground mesh (ground snow), and the teapots have all been grouped into one and then select as the object for a Udeflector.

So the snow (pf source) is being emitted from a small piece of mesh near the top of the globe on the inside to look like its snowing inside the globe.
There are 3 wind forces, 1 drag and 1 gravity.

I have tested this setup on a simple scene... 2 spheres one inside the other and it goes thru fine, but when i try it in the final scene (the snowglobe one) it runs like crap.
And like i said at the time of rendering the final frame i let it update the pf source and I came back over an hour later and it was only at 66% and that was with only 2000 particles which are small spheres at rendertime.
Even the viewport update is hopelessly slow even with a cache setup in the partice flow.

Any help would be great... but i reckon its going to be a case of making a simple "single" low poly mesh to use with the Udeflector instead of the normal meshes grouped together.
Will post pics if needed.

charleyc
12-30-2005, 06:21 PM
Try using a SDeflector in place of the glass as this will calc a lot faster than a mesh based deflection. This should save you a bit of time.

Daniel-B
12-30-2005, 09:03 PM
I'm still undecided which one to go for... the geyser or lava eruption as even though the initial emission effect is similar, the behaviour of the particles differ once they're in the air. I should know which one I'm going to do by later on today as I'm having a play with the scene later on so I can record the tutorials next week.

Well, either one will be cool looking, I'm sure. If you go with the water geyser, maybe you could put a footnote at the end on how to make it lava or something. Anyway, sorry for buggin you about it. It's your book. Have fun with it.

Speaking of which, the first book was awesome, when will the second be released?

DaForce
12-31-2005, 01:28 AM
charleyc:
Thanks for the tip, but the glass itself isnt a perfect sphere.. or even half a sphere... am I able to scale and squish the SDeflector so that it more closely matches the glass of the snowglove (not at home at the moment to check)

I think the main problem is the meshsmoothed ground/snow and possible the teapots. So I will "try" to simplify the deflection objects.

Thanks

PeteDraper
12-31-2005, 03:19 AM
Well, either one will be cool looking, I'm sure. If you go with the water geyser, maybe you could put a footnote at the end on how to make it lava or something. Anyway, sorry for buggin you about it. It's your book. Have fun with it.

Speaking of which, the first book was awesome, when will the second be released?

I've gone for the lava... it seems to have come out better ;)

I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you were trying to get the "M" shape illustrated in the episode 3 images you produced. I had a play with producing something like this in the tutorial but decided to leave it out for one main reason: it's a simple eruption variation due to pressure in the lava jet and doesn't happen every time. Normally its one large mass with some subtle variences, but the M shape occurs with smaller fissures and fractures so having it in a large eruption system would look odd. Saying that, it's not that difficult to produce if you break down what's causing it. I think that by controlling this emission velocity by materials is just making extra legwork for you - try simply animating a speed / speed by surface operator's Speed setting either by hand to create the little kink in the M or add a Noise controller to the speed controller to create some good variation. The main trick is to get the mass of particles underneath the outer M shape, which is caused by winds, lava that is not ejected as fast and therefore trailing or vapour emitting from the ejected lava (Spawn with reduced speed inheritance). The key is to work with a small amount of particles and design the main shape, lock that down and then fine tune to get additional effects such as the finer particles, clumping, hardening of lava, material effects etc.

I'll post a sample of the tutorial results tomorrow (all of the new ones) once the lava fountain has rendered out. Won't take that long to render, but I need some kip :)

Cheers for the comments about the book's first edition! The second one with the four new tuts should be out in the UK in march, pending any problems on the publisher's side (or me changing content at the last minute!). The manuscript has already been submitted and I'm just finalising the dvdrom content before I record the two video tutorials early next week after I've sobered up from new year :D I'm happy with the new stuff that's gone in there, thought I'd really have liked to write a totally new book, but lack of time and finances only allowed for a second edition of the existing book. Hopefully I might break even on it yet...!!

Cheers!

pete

charleyc
12-31-2005, 07:05 AM
DaForce - Yes, you can scale the SDeflector. And optimizing the mesh is a great idea for anything being used as a mesh deflector. Generaly the difference between the high res and low res meshes aren't too noticable.

DaForce
12-31-2005, 08:07 AM
charleyc:

Cool, just tried it out a little awhile ago and it does indeed work as you said :-)
I will optimize it and try again... hopefully it will reduce the time to update significantly as a simple sphere test is almost real time in playback and the snowglobe isnt really all that much more complex.

Daniel-B
12-31-2005, 10:23 AM
Pete, that's great news. I too would have like to have seen a completely new book, but we all understand you're a busy man. I am very anxious to see the finished lava geyser render. Perhaps tomorrow you will at least post a still of it, if not a short demo video. Great stuff I'm sure.

Look foward to it.

DaForce
01-01-2006, 12:12 PM
Im having some issues with the snow im working on at the moment.
I have optimized the deflector mesh and now thats runn alot faster.
But even with a cache in each of the 2 events in my Pflow setup it still generally needs to update the PF Source when i scrub it thru the timeline, and also updates each time i render even if i have the cache set to viewport/render.
Is there something im missing or does cache just not do a very good job?
I would expect that by using it, it should cache the entire particles thru the timeline so you can scrub thru without it updating.

Thanks in advance ;-)

OlegB
01-01-2006, 01:54 PM
You may need to increase the Memory Limit value in the Cache operator.

Thanks,
Oleg B.

DaForce
01-02-2006, 12:39 AM
Yeah i might try that.

Its weird tho... if i start at frame 0 and step thru each frame slowly its fine for about 65 frames then it has to start calculating, but if i jump to a certain frame say 30 or 60 it will update then jump back to say 10 it will also update.
I guess that could all be related to the cache tho..... it seems they dont even keep anything.
They are both set to 300000kb (300mb) each and time i tell the cache to update it comes back at me with zero memory uses in total and for current frame.
If i tell it to cache just one frame it just flashes and does nothing.
Really odd.... Surely i dont need more than 2x300mb cache for 20,000 particles.

OlegB
01-02-2006, 01:15 AM
DaForce,

It looks like you have a problem with the cache system itself. If you have Box#1 then you need to download the latest update (1.05) from the Orbaz site: http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=399
The update has a new tool 'Repair Cache System'.

The total amount of particles cannot define how big cache size it requires. It is heavily dependent on the geometry of the particles. For example, the well known tutorial with the Spiders from Chris Thomas (at CG Academy - http://www.christopher-thomas.net/pages/free_tutorials/tut_particle_flow_spiders/ct_tut_particle_flow_spiders.htm)
cannot be cached because of the animated geometry of the spider particles, and it's less than 50 particles in the scene. It's possible to cache it, however, with the Cache Selective operator from Box#3 http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=464 :) since it allows you to exclude any particle data from the cache.

Thanks,
Oleg B.

DaForce
01-02-2006, 01:42 AM
Well that could explain it.. its only creating simple spheres, and i have turned them off in the viewport so it just shows tickes. But the pf source system was merged from a testing scene where i was working on the motion of the snow.
Is this what caused my problem?
I dont have any of the box's yet. Im just using standard max pflow. is it possible to get the 'Repair Cache System' in the demo versions?

Or if i just recreate the pf source system without import it... will that fix the problem?

Thanks heaps for you help!!!

OlegB
01-02-2006, 01:51 AM
Yeah, the merge operation could be the reason of the cache system screw-up. If you can recreate it from the scratch, it should fix it.

Thanks,
Oleg B.

DaForce
01-02-2006, 02:01 AM
ok cool... will give that a shot and let you know :D

Thanks again

PeteDraper
01-02-2006, 02:27 AM
Pete, that's great news. I too would have like to have seen a completely new book, but we all understand you're a busy man. I am very anxious to see the finished lava geyser render. Perhaps tomorrow you will at least post a still of it, if not a short demo video. Great stuff I'm sure.

Look foward to it.

apologies for not posting the samples yet... should be able to tomorrow. Just making a few fine tweaks :)

p

DaForce
01-02-2006, 05:06 PM
OlegB:
Just want to thank you again!! Rebuilding the pflow system fix my caching problem.
Caches perfectly now!! vbmenu_register("postmenu_2948723", true);

Daniel-B
01-03-2006, 10:11 AM
apologies for not posting the samples yet... should be able to tomorrow. Just making a few fine tweaks

No problem, Pete. Looking foward to it. I tweak, and tweak, and tweak myself.

jng
01-04-2006, 12:50 AM
PARTICLE FLOW#3 AVAILABLE http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=464&sid=1b67d63b00c42055f3f4ba9e6d7e17ad

SoLiTuDe
01-04-2006, 10:26 AM
*GASP* :bounce::eek::thumbsup: Can't wait to order it!

g8ff
01-04-2006, 05:24 PM
Yep, Box3 is looking good. On another note, Max8 has been crashing left and right on me when doing particle spawns in Pflow... Has anyone else encountered this? I've just got a simple spawn by travel distance Operator, step size is 1 because the particels are small. Everytime it goes to render, it crashes. It does this on several different machines and I've been able to reproduce the problem from scratch. Didn't have this problem in Max7. Any ideas?

Geoff

charleyc
01-04-2006, 05:35 PM
I do not get a crash. Do you have any event comming off the Spawn Test? If you do not have anything comming off the Spawn, it seems to add the effect to every particle (including the newly spawned ones). This makes for very large particle counts very fast.

g8ff
01-04-2006, 05:47 PM
Yah, I've got just a simple event coming off the spawn test containing a force, shape, and material operator. Pretty vanilla. 1 offspring, no motion inheritance...Beats me...

It doesn't seem to like the object in the scene with the matte material on it. Only has a 20k poly count, but sure enough, if I hide the geometry it renders fine without incident.


Geoff

Cryptite
01-04-2006, 06:35 PM
Now that Box #3 is "out," us beta testers are free to spill our guts on thoughts about it (I think). All i have to say, from my beta-testing experience, is you guys will be surely amazed by the unimaginable new level of freedom you get with Box #3. I wish I had more time to figure it out and, those of you new to Particle Flow (even the experts) will be initially flabbergasted by all the stuff you can do. While it's not quite as intuitively obvious as the standard PFlow, once you begin to learn how everything works, boy oh boy is it good stuff!

At least you guys get Documentation now! Trying to figure it out without some kind of manual was alot of fun for some of us ;).

Great work, Oleg. Can't wait to see what the future of PFlow holds for us.

loran
01-04-2006, 06:56 PM
Shame on me, I was beta tester on PF tb3 and don't create anything cool with it ://
It s a little bit difficult to catch the concept of the differents techniques u can use with it, there are so many possibilities. I was very busy at work when I reciev the beta and I dont try it many more...
I hope that now that it's released, many exemples and demos will show the world what that powerfull tool is able to do!!

DaForce
01-04-2006, 10:36 PM
g8ff:
What renderer are you using?
I have had some problems with vray, pflow, cache and moblur... a certain combination would cause it to crash at render time. or sit there doing nothing. for ever

GumTree
01-05-2006, 12:36 AM
This may not be the place to ask it as, this being a pflow thread, the answers should favour max's pflow... But I am asking it anyway as this thread does seem to abound with experience and knowledge:

How do you guys feel about Houdini, specifically its particle systems? How does it compare to pflow and other alternatives like thinking particles?

I have just started to learn Houdini because of its emphasis on procedural animation which is my cup of tea. I am just wondering what I should focus on.

Thanks,

Rog.

BrandonD
01-05-2006, 03:04 AM
I've been using Houdini more and more in the last few years. In fact, right now I'm using it on a film and getting deeper than ever before. It doesn't really compare with any other package out there. It truely is a 3d construction set - you literally build tools in it.

Now, having done effects animation in both MAX and Houdini, the main differences are that you can literally do anything with Houdini, whereas you will run into problems in about 15% of productions with MAX. What I'm trying to say is that there are limitations with MAX and few with Houdini. However, MAX is still capable of doing the vast majority of projects out there, and in less time. The reason is that MAX makes a lot of assumptions about what you are doing, whereas Houdini makes no assumptions. You have to tell it everything you want to do.

Here's an analogy: Suppose you're a Fast & Furious street car racer tuning up your car. With MAX you can get in there and tweak the engine, tires, interior, but mostly by replacing parts. You can do it very quickly too. With Houdini, it's like working in the factory that built the car. You can get into every little bolt, nut and plug and tweak every piece of the vehicle - but it will take much longer.

Houdini is procedural at the core and that makes it a mixed bag at times when you want to do something simple. However, if you want to do something complex, it's the only tool sometimes.

Knowing both MAX and Houdini, for an effects animator, is a very smart thing. They are very much related and if you've gotten the hang of MAX's proceduralism, then stepping up to Houdini is much easier than coming from, say Lightwave or so.

They are both complimentary packages. I would default to modeling, lighting and rendering in MAX any day of the week. The same goes for character work. However, if you have a project that requires complex effects, Houdini is a pretty impressive package.

Hook
01-05-2006, 11:00 PM
Charleyc!!!
This have nothing to do whit PFlow, but in your personal Gallery you have a video of a "meteor" coillide whit a ground plane, the video is called Impact test.
i was wondering if you could give me some tips on how you did that or if you still have the file?

Thanks :)

charleyc
01-05-2006, 11:07 PM
Hook - Here is a link to the file.
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Displacement-Impact.zip (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Displacement-Impact.zip)
It is done with an animated displacement map. The timing is slightly off at the end, but it was done more as a proof of concept test than for any real project, so.... One day I may go back to it and add the particles and get it all working right.

Hook
01-05-2006, 11:29 PM
Yeah it is really nicely done, and pretty simple....... isn't it all when you now how ;)

Thanks a lot learnt a lot just by looking at the scene

Thanks:thumbsup:

GumTree
01-06-2006, 10:58 PM
Knowing both MAX and Houdini, for an effects animator, is a very smart thing. They are very much related and if you've gotten the hang of MAX's proceduralism, then stepping up to Houdini is much easier than coming from, say Lightwave or so.

They are both complimentary packages. I would default to modeling, lighting and rendering in MAX any day of the week. The same goes for character work. However, if you have a project that requires complex effects, Houdini is a pretty impressive package.

Thanks, Brandon, for your reply. You have confirmed my 'suspicions' and from looking at your impressive portfolio it seems you have the experience to do so!

Back to learning houdini now...

Rog. (Wannabe TD)

PeteDraper
01-08-2006, 01:16 PM
No problem, Pete. Looking foward to it. I tweak, and tweak, and tweak myself.

right, finally managed to get the thing uploaded. Here's an "advance preview", if you like, before I upload the other samples hopefully later on today to the main dte page on my site

http://www.3d-palace.com/xenomorphic/movies/lavafountain_rendered.mpeg

(right click and save locally incase it doesn't run in the browser)

Decided to incorporate those "M"'s at the end of the day. This is one of two lava fountain systems I've developed... might even run through the other version as a continuation of the book's video tutorial as it's relatively straight-forward.

enjoy :)

Pete

Cryptite
01-08-2006, 05:58 PM
That's Beatiful! Pixel will be very happen indeed when he sees this.

Daniel-B
01-08-2006, 06:21 PM
Ha ha, Pete, that is absolutely fantastic! I love it. Wow. I don't mean to gush, but DAMN that was awesome. I'm glad you decided to incorporate the "M's". That looks just like Mt. Etna footage. Bravo.

When is this book coming out? In the next two or three months?

PeteDraper
01-08-2006, 06:35 PM
cheers guys! the book will be out around March in the UK, though there will be a version of this tutorial in an upcoming edition of 3dworld which will be out sooner (or around the same time, depending where you live!). That issue is definately going to be a good one as there's a lot of elements tutorials (with allan doing an "air" one).

It might be a slightly cut-down version of this (video) tutorial as I'm limited to four pages of space and there a fair few settings to input even though it is a relatively straight-forward scene, just a lot of "accurate" settings to ensure certain particles spread a certain way. Plus there's an additional scene to construct which generates an animated map that drives the emission and velocities (it's all about the emission baby!). I'm on deadline still so I'll get chance to write it once the shots I'm working on at the moment are out the door, so will know how big it's going to be then.

Now to record it!

Daniel-B
01-08-2006, 06:51 PM
Bravo, Pete. I look foward to it.

DaForce
01-08-2006, 10:41 PM
wow...wow... WOW

Thats amazing!!!

Pete,
So the book thats coming out in March has all the same stuff as your previous book but more/newer stuff? So I should just wait for the new one right?
Will it contain this new lava tutorial? and is the only other place to get said lava tut on via 3dworld?

Thanks mate ;-)

PeteDraper
01-09-2006, 12:09 AM
So the book thats coming out in March has all the same stuff as your previous book but more/newer stuff? So I should just wait for the new one right?
Will it contain this new lava tutorial? and is the only other place to get said lava tut on via 3dworld?

yes on all accounts :) ... though the eruption tutorial in 3dw has yet to be approved by the editor, but it should be okay, else I'll develop something else for the magazine as my deadline isn't for a while yet. Suffice to say, the lava one will be in the book as a video tutorial. I'll let you know later on if it's going in the mag as a written tutorial or not and if it had to be cut down due to space.

Cheers!

Pete

DaForce
01-09-2006, 12:25 AM
wicked.. thanks for the info.

Hopefully I wont have to wait long to get he book after its released.. im in Aus.
Might just get a mate from the UK to send it down, if Aus has to wait awhile.

oh yeah... the Bullet Impacts and Blood Spatter tuts on your site... awesome.. really good.
Just the type of tuts i was after.. keep em coming :thumbsup:

PeteDraper
01-09-2006, 01:56 AM
here's another pflow-orientated one that's a written tutorial in the book

http://www.3d-palace.com/xenomorphic/movies/09_solarflare_takenfurther.mpeg (http://www.3d-palace.com/xenomorphic/movies/09_solarflare_takenfurther.mpeg)

shedload of particles in this one, with two main systems - flare streams and surface fires which are strategically emitted from certain points and shaded based on their distance from the sun, all driven by procedural maps (which makes up the sun's surface). The mpeg illustrates the Taken Further sequence, though the only difference between this and the one you complete in the tutorial is that there's an additional large ejection setup added, the sun rotates and there's additional fine volumetric rays emitted from certain points.

Pete

DaForce
01-09-2006, 03:23 AM
really cool stuff Pete!!
Cant wait to get my hands on it (the book that is)
Perhaps when its release you could give us a heads up in this thread :thumbsup:

Is the new book all about pflow?

PeteDraper
01-09-2006, 03:31 AM
cheers :)

the additions to the book are mainly pflow based, apart from "Glacier" a procedural modelling tutorial with a modifier stack the size of god-knows-what, which makes use of MR SSS, glass and sub-surface shaders for rendering, though it's mainly the modelling we're concentrating on and is designed to give the reader a different view on how to create terrain geometry without hand-carving everything.

The other remaining (video) tutorial is a nice Atmosphere entry sequence, which I'll post a sample of (plus the glacier image) in the next few days.

right... back into bloody combustion I go...

p

DaForce
01-09-2006, 03:38 AM
great... i do luvs me pflow :-)

Since im a vray nut, i guess it wont work off the bat, but it should be easy enough to convert the materials.
Cool cant wait for the images.

Enjoy your combustion :drool:

amckay
01-09-2006, 12:38 PM
I believe I've fallen off the face of this planet :\ !!
Just wanted to wish everyone a happy new years (late) and all that.

depleteD
01-09-2006, 11:05 PM
Man I got my teeth pulled on new years. That wasnt happy at all and shit. Missed out on a damage your liver party. I love damageing my liver :D siiggghh

Pete Thats a mad ill dope savage lava spray. I was trying to achieve that effect a while ago with mild success, but like u said its all in the emmision. I animated mine but no texture emmision or anything. I will have to check out your tutorial.

peace out niggaz

DaForce
01-10-2006, 12:09 AM
Did it just get blacker in here.. LOL ahh... j/k :thumbsup:

Hey thats some nice work you got there.. love that rain scene and the asian-esque kitchen. Really cool.

Teeth pulled? wisdom teeth?.. i gotta get mine done soon as well :-(

oatz
01-10-2006, 03:45 PM
I've been using Houdini more and more in the last few years. . .
Just curious which version you're using? The highest one is $$$$$.

Khye

BrandonD
01-10-2006, 07:33 PM
Yep, everything I said applies to Houdini Master. It's pricey, but ultra-powerful. The built-in compositor is really impressive and you can perform complex operations on imagery and pipe it back into the 3d environment. VOPs is scary powerful. It's like programming visually, similar to the rest of Houdini, but at a much higher level.

It's not so much of an artist tool like ZBrush, but purely a techie tool.

PexElroy
01-11-2006, 06:31 PM
Awesome work on your latest Sun and the lava fountain Pete. And I am sure most here are looking forward to your publication on it, if we can get a hold of it and your video.

depleteD
01-11-2006, 09:45 PM
yea no mo wisdom teeth fo me

dell
01-12-2006, 09:30 AM
Hi All

Just wanted to say this is a great resource, I've seen some ace work here ;-)

I have created a small animation attached.

It shows a room full of smoke which is the ventilated through a small window, via a hallway. I created this using facing particles, which was a nightmare as they don't interact very well with geometry & deflectors etc.

This was only a test to see how well I could work with facing particles, the final animation will be created using Afterburn. Although this did'nt turn out so well, it was a good learning experience.

Heres the link, the files called "PPVfire01"


http://www.firetcg.org/index1.asp

Any crits are welcome, thank you

amckay
01-13-2006, 03:52 AM
Houdini's awesome - I will say in a lot of ways there's no other package that beats it, especially for effects. Even animation and rigging it's amazing, although interface wise probably not the best for a majority of artists. I've been getting into over the years, although can't motivate myself to really use it in production as there's absolutely no market for it back here in Aus. One of my mates just moved back here from working at Framestore in London the last 5 or so years, so he's doing his hardest to try and establish a bit more of a userbase here. But again if you're in a big enough production then it can really make things work well for you.

avolution
01-13-2006, 05:15 AM
...... But again if you're in a big enough production then it can really make things work well for you.

Here's a question for you as a privateer...
When I see all those awesome effects in the movies or on broadcast TV, are they generally
the work of a team of animators, or of one really bright person (like you).

It's always bugged me that I can't get that type of output like you (and other bright stars)
can achieve with Particle Flow (but I'm trying).....


thanks

markdc
01-13-2006, 05:44 AM
PARTICLE FLOW#3 AVAILABLE http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=464&sid=1b67d63b00c42055f3f4ba9e6d7e17ad


Now that this is done maybe we'll see box 2 soon...

PexElroy
01-13-2006, 06:11 AM
Yep I want to use PFlow Box#2, for its AGEIA physX integration. And I asked Oleg recently about it, and he mentioned it's still under development.

BrandonD
01-13-2006, 06:15 PM
Box 3 opened up a tremendous amount of new capabilities to PFlow, so Box 2 development took a step back and should be back on track now. Exciting stuff, believe me.

byvfx
01-14-2006, 01:39 AM
im currently learning houdini right now it's really cool, it's amazing how much you can do! :)

DeKo-LT
01-14-2006, 09:32 AM
Yeap, Houdini is awesome 3d package, especially for ParticleFlow fanatics :thumbsup:

BloodHo
01-20-2006, 07:19 AM
Anyone got ideas and tips how to get particles moving same way like fast smoke puffs or explosion? I've been trying to do this for ages and can't get particle movement right.

viztastic
01-20-2006, 07:25 AM
depends on what sort of 'fast' smoke effect ur trying 2 pull off.. i guess if ur after making the sort of smoke that comes out of a semi-trailer truck's exhaust.. then u'd opt to have 2 or 3 wind space warps with varying turbulence and scales, and giving the particles an initial speed (by icon) and getting them to slow down overtime (as they diffuse into the environment) using drag (through falloff values)

i perosnally think the bigger challenge is to get the looks right rather than the motion, all the best with it tho

loran
01-20-2006, 12:28 PM
viztastic:
I think motion is the most important! you can have any high quality render that could look fakes with a wrong animation.

BloodHo :
anyway Im currently working on a short film and I have to create a cg rocket launch. I m looking for solutions to create life like big smoke. Aura is currently stopped in public beta so I try by using PF+afterburn or maya fluids. Maya fluid is restrictiv because u have to need a container so its difficult to set a scene like that and know before where the smoke will go (this is purely simulation). The tricks for Pf is to use winds and drags, and test, test, test, test millions settings parameters to achieve.

apollo11_launchclip01.mpg (http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo11/mpg/apollo11_launchclip01.mpg)

u see that?

Strob
01-20-2006, 03:04 PM
BloodHo:

I recently had some success for this kind of effect by using geometry to drive the particle flow. I wanted the smoke to swirl so I modeled a swirling geometry and with the speed by surface I was able to achieve a nice motion (I set the speed paralel to the surface).. I can't show you the video now because of copyrights...

KidderD
01-20-2006, 03:30 PM
viztastic:
I think motion is the most important! you can have any high quality render that could look fakes with a wrong animation.

BloodHo :
anyway Im currently working on a short film and I have to create a cg rocket launch. I m looking for solutions to create life like big smoke. Aura is currently stopped in public beta so I try by using PF+afterburn or maya fluids. Maya fluid is restrictiv because u have to need a container so its difficult to set a scene like that and know before where the smoke will go (this is purely simulation). The tricks for Pf is to use winds and drags, and test, test, test, test millions settings parameters to achieve.

apollo11_launchclip01.mpg (http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo11/mpg/apollo11_launchclip01.mpg)

u see that?

Your right Maya fluids are definitely to restrictive for this effect, but a fluid hybrid approach can certainly work. Check out this site/script for interesting examples.

http://petershipkov.com/development/overburn/overburn.htm

There is a mention of the massive thread on smoke by Bill Spradlin, but here's a quick summary and success story that could speed you along.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=246974&highlight=fluid

cheers

BrandonD
01-20-2006, 07:20 PM
I did big rocket smoke, like you're talking about, in "Armageddon" way back in 1998. Volumetric renderers like Afterburn are really good at that type of effect because you can get a really nice, dense, self-shadowed look to the vapor. How difficult is it? It all depends on what you're trying to do. In a nutshell, you want to focus on these parameters:

1. Create an AFC curve for Scale and Noise Size that ramps up quickly (like a quadratic curve). The idea is that as particles are born, the volumetrics grow quickly to their maximum size, but then their growth slows down.

2. Tweak the Noise Size so that it grows with the Scale of the volumetrics, but offset it so that it grows slightly faster. The idea here is that the noise pattern should move through the scale of the volume. This creates the billowing effect. It too should use the same AFC curve so that it gradually slows down.

3. Do something similar with Density so that the density drops over the life of the particles. An important thing to remember is that with lower density in Raymarching, you're going to take a render hit as the rays have to march further through the volume. You can control this with the Limit parameter. Most important, with Density, you need to make sure you have a gradual falloff to zero, otherwise you volumetrics will "pop off."

4. Lastly, lighting is important. You can illuminate the volumetrics from the rocket engine, but it's often faster to just use a Gradient Ramp on the Ambient light in Afterburn. This will force internal lighting. It doesn't look as good as placing a shadow casting light inside the volumetrics, but it renders 100 times faster.

depleteD
01-21-2006, 06:22 AM
AH brandon that the advice I like. Thx mang.

Can anyone gimme some advice on workflow for fx animation?
I'm doing an indy study in my quest to be a fx animator
So animate the particles first?
Do the shader first?

U guys wanna crit this misslecore?
http://people.uleth.ca/%7Eandrew.melnychukosee/portolio/missleCoreOrangeDone0000.jpg

charleyc
01-21-2006, 08:05 PM
Not that I can offer the insight the likes of Brandon can, but I would say get your particle motion down first as you wont have anything to shade otherwise. It is usually an easy thing to add or subtract particles as needed.

depleteD
01-21-2006, 08:57 PM
AH yea good point
thx charley

depleteD
01-22-2006, 07:27 AM
Can I get a crit guys?
Just a generic Missle Core.
right click save as
http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/portolio/core1.mov (http://people.uleth.ca/%7Eandrew.melnychukosee/portolio/core1.mov)

Thnx

vand
01-22-2006, 01:54 PM
nice links.. so much knowledge thats y i set cgtalk as my homepage

CGTALK
[CCCCCCCCGGGGGGGG!! keep talking]

amckay
01-25-2006, 02:20 AM
depleteD great work man! Reminds me of something I did for superman that was vaguely similiar to that. Cool work!

Australia Day here tomorrow, time to get drunk ;)

Brando - I agree about box set 3, I think it fills the void nicely with a lot of issues pflow had with some specific areas. once box set 2 is out I think pflow will be pretty much an entirely unbeatable tool for max. I still at this point have to occasionally jump into thinking particles for some effects, so I think I'll happily be able to leave it alone now bs3's out.

DaForce
01-25-2006, 03:51 AM
Allan:
:beer: :thumbsup:



(void fill to make the message long enough to post... stupid uptight forum software)

depleteD
01-25-2006, 04:40 AM
Ah thx Allan, I plan on checking out that movie asap.
Hey you guys draw/paint out your effects before you make them? I'm all about the 2d, love it, painting smoke is so hard tho. But anyway, how important is the concept art to the design of the effect?

loran
01-25-2006, 02:03 PM
Here is a first test for Rocket launch BIG smoke. PF+afterburn.
Thx Brandon for your advices!!

BIG SMOKE (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/fly-me-to-the-moon/FLUID-FAKES-04.avi)

jussing
01-25-2006, 02:49 PM
Nice smoke, Loran!

I'm jealous of all you with Afterburn.....

- Jonas

BrandonD
01-25-2006, 04:48 PM
Looks great for a first pass!

loran
01-25-2006, 04:59 PM
thanks,
here is another one. The trick is to fake fluid motion using keep appart and wind forces. I have to solve some to fast speed Phase motion.


BIGSMOKE 2 (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/fly-me-to-the-moon/FLUID%20FAKES-05.avi)

jussing
01-25-2006, 06:07 PM
The trick is to fake fluid motion using keep appart and wind forces.Some of the particles come back and fly right over the emitter - how'd you do that, it looks very fluid motion-ish...

- Jonas

charleyc
01-25-2006, 06:28 PM
loran- that is looking good.

depleteD
01-25-2006, 07:19 PM
loran thats excellent I think you have a bit violent phase animation around second 2.5? It kind a looks like its pulseateing. What if you tried adding rotation to the aburn spheres? Can you plz upload your scene. Id like to see how u did that particle animation where the particles blow back. Thats looking tiiight

bardur
01-25-2006, 07:29 PM
Nice Loran.. That Really kicks A** heee... looks great..

and as suggested.. could you upload the scene i too would like to take a look at the scene

Regards
Bardur

depleteD
01-26-2006, 02:18 AM
Hello, Im came accross something earlier today that I thought was a way crazy idea of doing things. Rendering out a bent normal pass of volumetrics so I can light them in a comper. I have no idea how to do this cause mr's ambient occlusion shader is the only one that I know of and have that does bent normal passes but it wont render afterburn. THis would really save me hours in rendertime not haveing to compute the raytraced shadows. Plus added flexibility.

WOuld a normal pass be sufficient?

Is there a plugin like open exr that auto saves bent normal passes of rendered images?

Thanks Andrew

jussing
01-26-2006, 06:49 AM
Rendering out a bent normal pass of volumetrics so I can light them in a comper.
It looks like Digital Domain are doing just that, with all their particle clouds:

XXX avalanche particles (http://www.digitaldomain.com/links/features/behindscenes/xxx1/xxx1.htm)
Motorola "pebl" meteor strike (http://www.digitaldomain.com/links/comm/behindscenes/BHS1/bhs1.htm)

- Jonas

BrandonD
01-26-2006, 07:00 AM
Um, well I'm at Digital Domain working with volumetrics every day and nope, not a normal pass, just a lighting pass. Imagine this, you have your volumetrics lit by three lights and you want to give the compositor a way to tweak how much each light participates in the render. How do you mask each light's effect on the volumetrics? ;)

loran
01-26-2006, 09:05 AM
thanks, I have now to adjust animation and to add sphere rotation. But I am a newbie with AB and my first attempt to rotate sphere give abnormal motion. Any advice for rotation animation in AB?

BIG smoke7 (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/fly-me-to-the-moon/FLUID-FAKES-07.mov)

jussing
01-26-2006, 10:20 AM
Um, well I'm at Digital Domain working with volumetrics every day and nope, not a normal pass, just a lighting pass. Imagine this, you have your volumetrics lit by three lights and you want to give the compositor a way to tweak how much each light participates in the render. How do you mask each light's effect on the volumetrics? ;)
Ah, thank you! :) So, not a normal pass, but still the kind of thing depleteD was asking for - using RGB colors in render, to control lighting in comp (though on particles, not volumetrics, then). It's just that some of the snow-smoke in the XXX shots looked quite volumetric.

- Jonas

g8ff
01-26-2006, 03:01 PM
-loran-
just enable the afc curve in the particle shape/animation parameters for Z: and adjust the hi value to something like -55...just a guess for the parameter without seeing your scene. also, adjust the afc curve so that somewhat matches the shape of your afc curve for the sph. radius. you can also add some small amount of positive ratation to the Y: and X: axis. that just get you going though.

BrandonD
01-26-2006, 04:56 PM
Jussing, it's volumetrics. You can use colored lights, it's allowed. You won't get sent to jail. It's okay ;)

jussing
01-26-2006, 09:51 PM
Phew! ;)

- Jonas

deetee
01-26-2006, 10:39 PM
Dont know if anyone wants this or not, but was supposed to put it out earier - But since a bolt of lightning killed my 3dsmax career ( since I couldnt afford a new computer ) I never did - Anyways a year later and probably wastly outdated here is a file I got some mails about.

The age and growth of the particles really looks horrible tho, cause just wanted it to render faster :)

http://home.online.no/~quaker/RL6.max
http://home.online.no/~quaker/RL6.avi

Just browsing through my old HD as I found it on my shelf :) Think it was born in Max 7.1 with Mentalray.

depleteD
01-27-2006, 06:10 AM
Thx Brandon

Ahhh yea that makes sense so much less complicated. Just pull a chroma key from the render? I treat it like a rgb light pass? no shadows?

Yo Jussing, yea thats where I got the idea. THose digital domain things are sweet. The way they do effects gah... crazy talented artist. Im really trying to get up my skills to apply for a internship their this april. gotta learn houdini arhg! My plate is so fullllllllllllllll

jussing
01-27-2006, 07:30 AM
Just pull a chroma key from the render? I treat it like a rgb light pass?
Just seperate the RGB channels into 3 different plates, and treat them like ordinary light passes, I suppose. :shrug:

Good luck! :)
- Jonas

depleteD
01-27-2006, 08:46 PM
I will try that Jussing, my comps kinda messed up right now so its gonna be a while till I post some results.

I was originally using Blue Pink and Red as my lights. Cause it looks cooler. But I'm gonna go to RGB and then seperate the to seperate plates instead of pulling keys. That should be a lot cleaner and drop the chances of data loss or damage to the image. Thanks man

depleteD
01-27-2006, 09:28 PM
Deetee man that was pretty awesome. Motion was a bit to dragy for my liking. But overall well done
I need sound effects. There a good place on the web where u can dl generic free ones. Preferably for explosions and shiz.

Cryptite
01-27-2006, 11:36 PM
Yeah loran, that looked great! I too am interested in seeing that scene file to see exactly how you did it.

BrandonD
01-28-2006, 01:01 AM
Think R G B.

Cryptite
01-28-2006, 09:35 PM
Well what i'm more interested in is the particle motions, not really the effect. I'm curious how he used the keep apart and wind operator etc. to achieve the particle motion.

depleteD
01-30-2006, 08:20 PM
Hey guys could I get some feedback?
This is the exhaust design for my missle. FOr some reason I rendered as tiffs and color isnt getting recognized in digital fusion. I will prolly post an update later today.

right click and save as
missleTrail (http://people.uleth.ca/%7Eandrew.melnychukosee/portolio/exhaustdesignTest1.mov)

jussing
01-30-2006, 09:40 PM
Hey guys could I get some feedback?
This is the exhaust design for my missle.
For a missile trail I think it's looking great, but two things make it hard to judge:

a) the smoke is going straight up, which makes it look like camp fire smoke, which makes me expect some kind of fluid dynamics, or slowing down, and that isn't happening...

b) the missile is standing still, so it's difficult to see how it's going to fit with the missile's size and speed.

Bottomline, once you start moving the emitter at missile speed, I think it's going to look completely different (particularly because the particles might be spread over a much wider area), so I'd start doing that. :)

Cheers,
- Jonas

depleteD
01-30-2006, 11:24 PM
Thanks man yea good points.
I started this file just to design the afterburn shader. It might not fit the missle movement. But I dont want the missle smoke to spread out over a great distance. Just keep that same shape and have elctricity crackling throught it. I'm working on a misslestrike scene so I can work on explosion animation. I will try to add this here.

You mentioned a campfire smoke look, think I should make it more pyroclusterish?

I updated the file. Re rendered so I cound have color then took it through fusion.
I wanted it to give off a more hostile energy look.

-Andrew

avolution
01-31-2006, 04:46 AM
If you want to test it in motion but view it as a pseudo-static
(for motion analysis) try this.

have the motion emitted or spawned as you are doing right now
but have the emitter, as suggested previous post, to be moving
at say 600 units per second

THEN
link the camera and target to the emitter
then you can test it as though it is static
but in reality the camera is locked to the emitter speed


Hope this helps....





Thanks man yea good points.
I started this file just to design the afterburn shader. It might not fit the missle movement. But I dont want the missle smoke to spread out over a great distance. Just keep that same shape and have elctricity crackling throught it. I'm working on a misslestrike scene so I can work on explosion animation. I will try to add this here.

You mentioned a campfire smoke look, think I should make it more pyroclusterish?

I updated the file. Re rendered so I cound have color then took it through fusion.
I wanted it to give off a more hostile energy look.

-Andrew

Cryptite
01-31-2006, 04:58 PM
Another method of making sure the smoke doesn't spread out too much when it's flying is to give the spawned smoke particles little to no Motion Inheritence. This will insure that, upon emission from the rocket, they'll have almost no speed, and will stay where they are. From there you can apply your Forces to have the smoke particles do as you please.

BrandonD
01-31-2006, 07:07 PM
Ah, but that wouldn't look too realistic. Motion inheritance is a real effect of inertia. But it doesn't have to be substantial, usually no more than 30% of parent speed. With AB you can also stretch the volume based on velocity, helping to fill in the gaps between fast moving particles. And just remember, Drag is Your Friend.

JohnnyRandom
01-31-2006, 07:41 PM
I hate to interupt with such a silly question but how in the heck do I see my keyframes created in pflow? I.E. when I auto key a scale operator for instance, set iniatial amount, scrub to next frame for a key, adjust amount, creates another key... but there are no visible keyframes in my timeslider.

Am I missing something? default view I haven't changed any key filters, ect.

BTW max8 sp1

TIA
John

DaForce
01-31-2006, 10:33 PM
Have a look in trackview

JohnnyRandom
01-31-2006, 10:49 PM
Oh they are in the trackview and I'm a freaking moron. I guess if would select the emitter the keyframes would show up...

Thanks tho
Back to the regular scheduled discussion...

viztastic
01-31-2006, 10:51 PM
yeah trackview is the solution, if u've got enuff screenspace to play with, u might wanna enable the minitrackview that sits right above ur time slider, pretty nifty n useful

BrandonD
01-31-2006, 11:42 PM
Easy way to get to an obscure track in Trackview: Right-click on the parameter > Show in Trackview. You can also assign controllers from this dialog.

JohnnyRandom
02-01-2006, 01:27 AM
Sweet thanks, great shorcut (should probably review all the 101 right-click menus in max again :P 8) )

always used trckview either float or in a viewport, be honest like it better on the bottom... nice it stays there in x-mode...

depleteD
02-01-2006, 07:56 AM
AH thanks alot guys, you guys have been real helpfull. The original idea for that exhaust design test was to design the exhaust. Like the shader of afterburn. I forgot to think that the design would be severly warped due to a different speed of the particles.

I would like you guys to rip this next animation appart. Unfortuanetey the dots obscure 3 or 4 systems inside which would represent various forms of smoke. Im gonna try and fix that. BUt I ownly have 3 aburn systems done on this. THis file has upwards of 20 events. I have 5or 6 aburn shaders to design still. ACK! It will be fun tho.

DOnt hold back guys, rip it apart. Help me become a better artist.
ALso if you guys know of some refrences that would help me that would be killer.
Right now I'm putting a twist on "Iraq Explosion" from www.killsometime.com THey have a really good torando one there too. Best Ive seen. Ever.



ANIMATIONTEST (http://people.uleth.ca/%7Eandrew.melnychukosee/portolio/missleStrike.avi)

Thanks guys.

I'm gonna attach the missle shader first thing tommorow :D

viztastic
02-01-2006, 08:07 AM
the motion u got in ur anim test reminds me of the missile strike int he motorolla pebl ad... looking good...

Cryptite
02-01-2006, 07:28 PM
I said little to no inheritance!

jussing
02-01-2006, 08:45 PM
DOnt hold back guys, rip it apart. Help me become a better artist.
At first glance, it looks just awesome! :)

The "fingers" and the smoke from the explosion look like they should have some more dynamics to them (the smoke is rising very linear), and the missile trails follow the missiles down instead of hanging in the air, blowing to the side (maybe that's what Cryptite meant with "little inheritance" ;) )


Cheers,
- Jonas

depleteD
02-01-2006, 09:04 PM
the motion u got in ur anim test reminds me of the missile strike int he motorolla pebl ad... looking good...

Yea kinda I guess, I did use it as a refrence to check how fast the things hit the ground.

The "fingers" and the smoke from the explosion look like they should have some more dynamics to them (the smoke is rising very linear), and the missile trails follow the missiles down instead of hanging in the air, blowing to the side (maybe that's what Cryptite meant with "little inheritance" ;) )

Yea I'll play around with that. I might break the fingers up a little bit but I do want them distinct. I have the missle smoke going down with inheritance cause I assume that the smoke is going pretty fast with the missle and going a bit with gravity but more importantly I wanted it to be going down as a compositional element to the scene. The motion helps move the eye along.

Thanks guys. SHould have a update later today. After this stuid homwork stupidstuff.

jussing
02-01-2006, 09:14 PM
Oh, by the way, all the pebbles and debris being thrown up and to the sides look really good. :)

depleteD
02-02-2006, 02:39 AM
ahhh thanks alot man, the thin that I found that gave it a good look was spawning with high motion inheritance and high varriation i kept the inheritance % value and the variation % value around the same. and lots and lots of particles :D.

Quick question about the cache operator. Pretty cool stuff super helpfull. This is accutally my first time using it and im pretty blown away. RIght now I have it in as a global which is now become a little bit tedious as every time i make an adjustment I have to recache my entire scene.

My question is can I place a cache operator in a local even and it will go through all the events under it or only cache the particles in that single event.

Also when I hit manual update does pflow do all the cache operators or just that one?

Thanks

-Andrew

EDIT: yea im haveing real issues now, i placed a cache in every event and it doesnt work like a global cache does. Whats up?

JohnnyRandom
02-02-2006, 06:06 AM
My question is can I place a cache operator in a local even and it will go through all the events under it or only cache the particles in that single event.

Also when I hit manual update does pflow do all the cache operators or just that one?

Thanks

-Andrew

EDIT: yea im haveing real issues now, i placed a cache in every event and it doesnt work like a global cache does. Whats up?

I tried that to:D

Heh yeah I'd like to know as well, I've been picking apart a few of Pete Draper's (blood splat and tendril flame tuts) flows and well they just kill my machine:sad:

Tried heidi and dx although better than opengl, it is still a bog with big flows, I also switched options>update type> to forward, to update from current frame instead of 0.

BrandonD
02-02-2006, 10:05 PM
FYI, Oleg's new Particle Flow Tools Box #3 has some very powerful caching tools. You can cache any channels at just about any time and not just to memory, but also to disk.

depleteD
02-03-2006, 04:27 AM
FYI, Oleg's new Particle Flow Tools Box #3 has some very powerful caching tools. You can cache any channels at just about any time and not just to memory, but also to disk.

Awesome. Awesome to teh max. Man I hope that hombre releases a demo version, i just shot my wad for the rest of the year and then some images/icons/icon3.gifimages/icons/icon4.gifimages/icons/icon10.gifimages/icons/icon9.gifimages/icons/icon8.gifimages/icons/icon6.gifimages/icons/icon5.gifimages/icons/icon7.gif. Hopefully I get a job in april.

Tried heidi and dx although better than opengl, it is still a bog with big flows, I also switched options>update type> to forward, to update from current frame instead of 0.

Yea im using maxtreme and forward update.

well hopefully i fix the dust in this render. It makes me wanna barf and now my desk is such a mess. Suggestions anyone?

http://people.uleth.ca/%7Eandrew.melnychukosee/portolio/ShaderWIP.jpg

JohnnyRandom
02-03-2006, 06:22 PM
Heh my plugin budget shot too (what there is of it)...but I must say from reading the descriptions Box#3 looks sweet...

Suggestions...no but coming along nicely:)

depleteD
02-08-2006, 03:48 AM
Hey you guys know where script or a plugin is where I can import a maya scene into max? And viseversa. FBX doesnt work. I want to use mayas dynamics and take them into max. ( I would bake the simulation of course)

Snowballing
02-11-2006, 01:10 PM
Hi everyone,

For a project I need to do animated 3D clouds, mapped with a checker-like texture. I have tried with Afterburn, but I can't find a way to apply a map. The clouds themselves can look like cartoony metaballs clouds, as long as they are animated like normal ones. Which way should I go ?

ArtiZta
02-12-2006, 02:11 AM
I don't think you can apply any mappings on afterburn.
I would sugest using pwrapper or blobmesh, those you can apply mapping.

Snowballing
02-12-2006, 09:56 AM
Thanks a lot for your answer,
if I use blobmesh to do this, what about the animation ?

ArtiZta
02-13-2006, 05:22 AM
You can integrate blobmesh with pflow if you don't want to animate blobmesh manually.

loran
02-15-2006, 09:53 AM
I wish to use lock bond on an animated surface, without particle reacting motion of surface, but reating to a force, like Wind perturbation.
In fact I want to create ship wake foam, particles following animated surface of the sea and moving around because of the wind. But not because of the sea motion! Is that clear ?? http://www.orbaz.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

again :particles keep on animated surface, only moving due to a wind.

here is my test. If surface motion is big, particles are spray around :/

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/sea%20test2.max

Anyone have a solution?? thx

Nazgul
02-15-2006, 02:18 PM
Hey Allan

Not long ago you posted that all your material for the next DVDs is ready and should be coming out soon... when would that be and who is the distributor this time?

thanks!
Naz

amckay
02-16-2006, 06:54 AM
it's turbosquid, I gave em the material ages ago but they're taking their sweet time :)
I'll give em another nudge/kick in the balls later this week.

OlegB
02-16-2006, 11:26 AM
Loran,

It's all working, as I described at the Orbaz forum ( http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2450#2450 ) but you have to have the latest update (1.05) of PFTools:Box#1.

Thanks,
Oleg B.

Nazgul
02-16-2006, 02:10 PM
it's turbosquid, I gave em the material ages ago but they're taking their sweet time :)
I'll give em another nudge/kick in the balls later this week.

Yes! excellent thank you! ;)

robo3687
02-19-2006, 01:57 AM
okay i'm not sure if this is possible but I'm pretty sure i've seen it done before...

i'm trying to make some sort of air battle (or space...they're just boxes at the moment) and i'm trying to do it in PF.

What I need to know is if there is any way to get individual particles from one source to pick another particle from another source and follow it?

my experience with PF is a bit limited but i know i've seen it done before.....

PexElroy
02-24-2006, 01:51 AM
Hi all, I was wondering if we can with PFlow (or a Tool Box) emit particles in the direction of a 3D model's norm face, and all faces or selected faces, and emit from the center of the face and in the direction of the norm.

charleyc
02-24-2006, 02:02 AM
There are a number of ways to do this. TO have the particels emit from the faces of an object, use the Position Object Operator. Then to have them travel from the object, use the Speed by Surface Operator.

charleyc
02-24-2006, 02:07 AM
Oops, I submitted before I was ready.


If you want/need the particels to emit exactly from the face centers, you can use an radial Gradiant Map set to Face Map and use the position by Material options of the Postion Object Op. Another way is to divide all the faces and select the new, center vert. There are no doubt other, perhaps better ways to do this as well.

Phibmobil
02-24-2006, 04:25 PM
Hi everyone.

I want to make an animated figureŽs smokey outline.

IŽd like to know if there is a way to let particles Find Target continually, but retain the specified outline shape, intead of cycling randomly around the target.

IŽll post a scene to explain.

Any help would be appreciated =)
!
Phibmo

avolution
02-24-2006, 05:37 PM
After the find target, you need a Lock/Bond from Particle Tools Box #1


Hi everyone.

I want to make an animated figureŽs smokey outline.

IŽd like to know if there is a way to let particles Find Target continually, but retain the specified outline shape, intead of cycling randomly around the target.

IŽll post a scene to explain.

Any help would be appreciated =)
!
Phibmo

DangerousCliff
02-24-2006, 05:40 PM
i have a particle flow set up to simulate some simple fireworks. nothing too fancy, a rocket, a smoke trail, a flash and a big plume.

240 frames total in the scene. the rockets that set the whole thing off have a birth operator set to emit from frame 1-200 so that the rest of the fireworks (lasting about 45 frames) will be played out near the end of the animation.

now, i've had it set up and working, then i went to work on other parts of the scene. now, for some reason if i set my amount in the birth operator to a number greater than 10 it stops emitting after frame 100. so i set the birth operator to emit the entire time line, 0-240. i set the amount to 10, it emits the entire time. if i set it to more than 10 it will stop emitting at about frame 120.

i cannot find a single operator in my flow that would cause this. it just seems odd to me that the only thing i change, the total amount, would change when it stops emitting, even though the emit range has not changed.

anyone have this problem?

i've tried changing the render result from single mesh, multiple meshes, and mesh per particle, thinking it might be an odd memory issue. i've also gone as far as importing the flow into a new max scene, but nothing helps. i'm at a loss here. any suggestions, or help would be appreciated.

charleyc
02-24-2006, 05:45 PM
DangerousCliff - you may be exceeding the amount of particles in you Upper Limit in the System Management of the PF Source. You can get to it either from the PFSource or from the Render Op in the Particle View. If that is not it, you may have to post a screen shot of the flow.

DangerousCliff
02-24-2006, 06:01 PM
that was exactly the problem. i feel embarrassed for overlooking something so simple... thank you for your quick and accurate reply.

Phibmobil
02-27-2006, 10:06 AM
Avolution:

Thanks for the quick reply.

I played around with find target, and got the results i wanted. It seems findTarget chooses a point on the mesh and follows it around. Add some drag, and you get the ghosty kind of delayed movement i was after.

Thanks to all who contribute to this thread. Invaluable recource indeed !

!

Phibmobil
02-27-2006, 11:01 AM
Hi all.

IŽve incountered an interesting problem-

Im rendering smoke using 7-10 million unshaded tetras. I get serious flickering on my shadows.

Im using shadow maps, and image motionblur, because raytraced shadows use too much memory and crash as a result.

Have anybody had this problem ? Any suggestions as to how shadows on such high particle counts can be created ?

Thanks !

!P

loran
02-27-2006, 02:04 PM
aaarrrmmmmh!! 7-10 millions tetras casting shadows!?
I think It simply impossible to render correctly!!:D
what kind of DX want you create?
For millions particles you d better use facing or pixel particles.
What about the shadows? you want self shadows on millions parts with PFlow uh??
I don t know what to tell you other than going to another planet ;)

Phibmobil
02-27-2006, 02:23 PM
hehe.. thanks Loran !

I did actually get it to render self shadows, but like i said, it flickers.

I did consider the particle point method, but need to get accurate MotionBlur vectors out of it too.. so thats not realy an option.

I wish max had a better way of doing this. IŽm gonna try approximate a Blob-mesh around the system, and see if i can get a Shadow pass for this thing rendered.. Aargh..

Maybe other solar systems have a better solution for this..
!
p

loran
02-27-2006, 02:28 PM
just tell us more about the effects you want to achieve...
have something to show us or a reference you want to mimic? there is always tricks to solve that kind of problems. Native Max Blob will be memory consuming too...

Phibmobil
02-27-2006, 02:45 PM
Righty..

Attached : IŽm making thin smoke do all sort of things.. I can get rid of the 'dots' by picking a range of alpha intensities, and blurring the rest, thereby not destroying the detail.

My problems : #1 - Getting the shadow maps not to flicker.
#2 - Keeping the renderfarm happy..

I'm using just -one- dual, 3GigMb machine per render. It seems to work more stable considering max cant cache 7million particles..

loran
02-27-2006, 03:53 PM
DO you really need self shadows??
using pointrender you can have cool things like that:
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/videos/vertexrender04psd.jpg
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/videos/pixel-particles-sor.mov
here is a tutorial I wrote showing how to enhance pointrender in AE
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/tutorials/tutorial05/t5.htm


the only way to have self shadows will be AfterBurn

Phibmobil
02-27-2006, 04:24 PM
Yeah, i understand your point =)

I want to get away from the 'flat' look. I feel the smoke would have more depth, and sit better in the shot if you can clearly see the volume it creates in 3d...

WouldŽnt Afterburn or Pyrocluster rendertime shoot through the roof with that kind of particle count ??

I feel there has to be a way of casting accurate shadows.. and it would look soo sweet..

There has to be way..

charleyc
02-27-2006, 04:33 PM
While I am not certain of this, what is your shadow Bias set to. I imaging your particles are very small and therefore would require a very small bias.

jigu
02-27-2006, 04:49 PM
Hey loran,

That point renderer is cool stuff. would u plz tell how it can be done in pflow?
did u use any script?

Phibmobil
02-27-2006, 04:54 PM
Thanks Charley,
yes my particles are very small ( .04cm) , with different Bias settings i still get flickering.. even on zero..

My machines are capable of rendering this amount , no errors , iŽve been using just one machine per render, so it cant be different (flickering) because of distributing the render.

charleyc
02-27-2006, 05:02 PM
You could try using the Falloff Map set to use Light/Shadow to create the effect of shading, although you would not get true self shadowing, it may give the depth you are looking for.

Phibmobil
02-27-2006, 05:25 PM
Charley -

Do you mean set the diffuse channel of my particle texture to fallof - shadow/light , and then turn off the shadows in my light source ?

IŽve run into extreme rendering times using any kind of texturing on the tiny tetras..

Ill try that.. thanks !

loran
02-27-2006, 05:44 PM
the_jigu, here is a tutorial for point render http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/tutorials/tutorial04/t4.htm

galagast
02-28-2006, 01:42 AM
Phibmobil, maybe you could also try increasing the shadow map size since you're using shadow maps.. although I'm not sure if your machine can handle it..
or.. If you just need it to cast shadows on the ground, I did a workaround back then where I rendered a top view (or a light view) of the particle separately, then I used it to act as shadows (which you could then also project using lights).. vbmenu_register("postmenu_3281186", true);

jigu
02-28-2006, 04:17 AM
Thanks loran.now i got it.yesterday i loaded ur that tutorial but flash player wasn't installed.

Phibmobil
02-28-2006, 09:40 AM
Galaghast: Good idea for casting shadows thanks ! I have a farm at my disposal =) IŽll do some tests with different size shadow maps..

I wish max had a shader that renders points with velocity and z chanels, using OpenGL , in realtime.. mmm

PexElroy
02-28-2006, 11:36 AM
bad double post - can't remove

PexElroy
02-28-2006, 11:37 AM
Hi all,
Say does anyone have an idea how in 3ds max we can create a “rain" of ~100 to 600 objects, as controllable rigid-body objects? We need PFlow Tool Box #2 so bad!

The objects for this shot need hero dynamic motion, camera is close to objects.

The objects raining down should do a basic impact and collide on a reactor surface, so they each bounce properly - that part is easy. But the hard part is I cannot see (yet) a method to offset many reactor objects so they can rain down with an offset in time, to avoid piles and clusters of objects together.

Want to avoid hand animating thousands of objects and manually comping 1000 objects over one another is intensive.

loran
02-28-2006, 11:37 AM
You could use a red light from the top and a blue from the bottom of the scene
using low poly sphere as shape instance.So you could then separate the top light and bottom light in After Effects.this will give you a more depth image.

Phibmobil
02-28-2006, 12:41 PM
Brilliant -thanks Loran !!
IŽll post some results when these babies come off the renderfarm..

PexElroy
03-01-2006, 02:43 AM
Messing with some ideas for a good "rain" or "snow" method for many rigid-bodies in reactor.

None of this reactor machine will render or be seen, they are off camera and objects just fall or rain down and land. By moving this around and rendering other passes, one can duplicate them all so thousands are composited into one shot.

What I created was a reactor dynamic pump, with two rigid-bodies only into a piston like machine, and then let the other rigid-body objects in my file drop onto it as it animates up and down fast to thrown the fall objects high up and scatter them in the air -- like throwing marbles in the air with your hand. This creates a good rain type affect of the objects falling down and landing good.


Brandon -- thanks, looked at your rain file, great work - real handy. But I am not after an actual rain storm fall VFX, rather I meant the concept of objects raining down.

BrandonD
03-01-2006, 05:34 AM
I made a Rain example file that ships on the MAX 8 CD. It uses PFlow and some animated noise maps and is very commented to help you get the idea.

plejboy
03-02-2006, 11:12 PM
Hey guys. Gotta say that this pflow thread is very neat. Nice to see that there are others that like particles as much as me. :) I dont wanna hijack this thread but ive got a workflow/Compositing question:
So, just finished a job with particles, hair&fur and advance geometry. It was a complex scene so I had to divide it into diffrent scenes so I could work with the diffrent elements without Max crashing all the time. I used the same cameramove in all of the scenes and rendered the diffrent scenes with zdepth and alphas.
Later, in after effects, when I was to add DOF (Frischluft) I had to add the DOFfilter multiple times because I couldnt find a nice way to combine the zdepth from the diffrent renders into one zdepthimage.
It was impossible to merge the scenes to get one nice zdepth render.

Am I working this the wrong way round? Is it not right that you want ONE zdepth image to control the depth of the finished composited scene?

I know that its not a direct pflow question but it seems as though you guys have your fingers in post aswell. :) I want to learn the workflow so I can become better.

Thanks in advance and keep up the good work. All of you!
best regards
/Arvid

loran
03-03-2006, 08:44 AM
Thx Brandon! I didn t see there was new sample scene in max 8 DVD !! (generaly always the sames from 3ds4 !!). The Bridge Collapse scene is wonderfull !! Thanx again brandon, that really teach good trick about pflow.http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/brandondavies-bridge.jpg



plejboy :
So you have several pass renders with Zdepth. Use pre-composition in AE in mass!
one render with the Zdepth for alpha by pre-comp. Then combin all your pre-comp in one final composition. am I wright?

feldy
03-03-2006, 06:03 PM
Hey Allan What happened to that dvd of yours man turbosquid needs to get on the ball here man. you sent that stuff ages ago didnet ya.

PexElroy
03-03-2006, 11:02 PM
plejboy - Yep, Z-Depth are basically greyscale images, so you would render them separately and then "min" (minimum) them together before using as a matte for atmospheric flashing or depth of field blur. Give it a shot. There are other "ways" too.

Yeah, I've been looking at Turbosquid and no new Allan DVD yet :(

plejboy
03-04-2006, 06:47 PM
Hey Loran and PexElroy.
Thanks for your answers. After doing a bit of thinking and testing i found that precomposing (a lot!) gave me a nice result. Thanks for that Loran.
What do you mean by "minimum" them toghether PexElroy?

Anyways, Thanks for your answers. I apprechiate it.

best regards

/Arvid

PexElroy
03-05-2006, 02:08 AM
plejboy -- Min is a type of node in Apple's Shake, though I mostly use Combustion 4 or Digital Fusion 5 on the PC. Min is the concept of minimum values of pixels, and a mode in how they will be processed when overlapping like a mode in a Photoshop layer. You in After Effects right?

plejboy
03-05-2006, 01:41 PM
PexElroy- Yep. I was thinking it was a blendingmode or something like that. That was what I was looking in the first place but I had no luck in AE. Ive also looked for plugins that do it in AE but no luck there either.
Is there a "min" mode in combustion? Cause i could use Combustion to make the ZDepthimage and then use AE for the rest of the stuff.
Thanks again PexElroy

loran
03-06-2006, 09:12 AM
you can find similar to the Min Node in AE by using effects/Channel/minimax

plejboy
03-06-2006, 09:53 AM
Thanks Loran and PexElroy.
I did some further reading about blending layers in aftereffects and the Lighten blend said this:

"The Lighten Blend filter creates composite image samples by choosing the lighter samples (from either the foreground image or the background). The result is that the background image samples are replaced by any source image samples that are lighter. Otherwise, the background image samples are left unchanged"

So even if I had already tried ALL blending modes i went back and gave it another go.
AND IT WORKED!

So for anyone doing this type of z depth compositing in After Effects. Lighten is the way to go.

Thanks for your help again.
/Arvid

loran
03-06-2006, 09:56 AM
very interesting Pflow thread.
:D

Nazgul
03-06-2006, 02:26 PM
Hello hello hello!

I'm trying to make a little mushroom explosion. (barbecue tank explosion. Yeah I know. don't ask.)

I'm using Afterburn. My problem arises when using drag to slow down particles. At one point they all flip around. I've been told that it is because my drag is too strong and the particle velocity drops to zero and therefore my particles go back to their initial rotation.
I can't reduce the drag force otherwise I would get a bigger particles spread and I don't want that.
Anyone has an idea?
thanks
Naz

Cryptite
03-06-2006, 02:54 PM
I've had this problem too. It occurs as a result of the fact that your particles are still rotating around even after the drag force has done most of the work. Combine that with, I assume, the stretch you've applied to the AB particles when they explode, and you get funky rotating particles towards the end. The only thing I could think of to do to rectify this would just be to get rid of the Part Velocity all together, or adjust the stretching so that it zeroes out towards the end of it's movement, thereby preventing the particles from changing direction too much once they've stopped expanding.

Hope this helps.

DeKo-LT
03-06-2006, 03:04 PM
Nazgul,
maybe try to create animated mushrom mesh(Vol.Select, Push, FDD, Relax and so on) with Surface flowing particles, they must be a lot of particle layers. :)

DangerousCliff
03-06-2006, 05:12 PM
hello all,

again with the questions...

so this time, i'm creating a crowd simulation with PF. now, nothing as fancy as behaviors, and heavy animation, no i'm just filling a stadium with very low res figure stand-in's. i have about 50 different stand-in's all mapped differently to give a good mix of random colour to the crowd.

i've used a *very* simple PF to scatter these guys around the bleachers. looks very convincing with some blur on it, off in the background.

now the problem i'm having is that i want to give the crowd a bit of random movement for the animation.

i've tried animating the divergence on the rotation event, but unfortunately, this parameter does not animate, or at least it doesn't actually change while animated.

i've tried to give it a bit of spin with the spin operator, but this does not give the effect i want.

i've tried wind, with 0 strength and a bit of turbulence, but the particles just float off (looks rather like a bunch of bees all deciding to leave at the same time- i'll have to remember that for later). if i lock the particles to the emitter, then they just vibrate, which is certainly not what i'm after.

the only thing i've gotten to work is to assign a noise rotation to each figure stand-in (unique seed for each of 50) and turn on animated shape in the shape instance. unfortunately this sends my machine to a crawl, and i have a pretty beefy machine.

any suggestions on how to do this within PF?

thanks in advance!

charleyc
03-06-2006, 05:33 PM
There are a couple options that I can think of off the top of my head. The first is to use Lock/Bond with PFTools Bax1 if you have it. Simply lock the particles to the emiter objects and use a low wind turbulance. Other than that you would have to use a scipt operator to apply a slight random rotation.

DangerousCliff
03-06-2006, 05:59 PM
unfortunately, i don't have any of the toolboxes.

i'll play around with it some more.

thanks!

DeKo-LT
03-06-2006, 08:16 PM
Maybe this helps:
http://www.christopher-thomas.net/pages/free_tutorials/tut_particle_flow_spiders/ct_tut_particle_flow_spiders.htm

plejboy
03-06-2006, 08:52 PM
If you are looking for something like this...
http://www.plej.se/3d/PflowCrowd.mov

You only need max and standard Pflow. I guess there are a bunch of ways to do it but I did it like this...


http://www.plej.se/3d/PflowCrowd.gif


First event is to make the instanced plane (with a low pivot) spread out and stand in a upright position.
The second and third are just a bit of random rotations that the particles try to find over and over.
I've hilighted event two if you want to see some settings. Event three is basicly the same with another seed.
You can slow them down by changing the duration in the "Go to Rotation" and make them wave more or less by changing the divergence in "Rotation".
Dont forget to make the birth happen over a bunch of frames to offset the particleage.

Hope it helps.

oh yeah.. I would animate the textures a bit aswell for even better result. Stuff like waving arms or whatever people do at hockeygames... :)
Best regards.
/Arvid

amckay
03-07-2006, 03:21 AM
Arvid cool idea that's pretty neat

feldy - I have no idea - getting a little impatient now as I basically did this stuff a year ago and it's still not out! I showed some of it off at Digital Media Festival in Sydney, Aus and seemed to get a lot of excited responses so that's good to know. I have no idea what is going on but I'm gonna have to start kicking shins soon

DeKo-LT
03-07-2006, 04:07 PM
Hey Allan,

or maybe put your tutorial on website for free :deal: . We will be very happy and for you is less pain... :thumbsup:.
You will be a big hero for us. I will be really pray for you soul in the evening.
What do you think? :beer:


"....because the knowledge must be free...":buttrock:

feldy
03-07-2006, 06:46 PM
well that blows allan I dont know if your going to be at siggraph agian teaching master classes but it would be nice.

DangerousCliff
03-07-2006, 10:21 PM
If you are looking for something like this...


that is *exactly* what i'm looking for. a huge thanks!

you see, i only end up using PF about every 6 months or so, so its basically picking it up from scratch each time. and each time, i'm absolutely amazed at how powerful it is, and how helpful this community is.

amckay
03-07-2006, 11:22 PM
dekovv I've been meaning to do a bunch of free highend tuts for my site, just been so friggin busy I've had 0 time to do anything but work.

I was in Tokyo last week, I flew home for a day to pack my bags for another job and flew off again same day :\

as for sig, potentially I will be, I should follow it up with autodesk, just again been too busy.
#$#!@$!#

Looking forward to late May where I can take a week off! hah

byvfx
03-08-2006, 09:52 PM
i got a scripting quesiton..

is there anyway to access the particle ID's by scripting?
i want to birth a sequencual particles from a spline.
so i don't want them to come out of random points at the same time.

this is rather easy to do in Houdini, because of the point attributes.. just curious if i could do something like this in PFlow

GumTree
03-09-2006, 01:16 AM
i got a scripting quesiton..

is there anyway to access the particle ID's by scripting?
i want to birth a sequencual particles from a spline.
so i don't want them to come out of random points at the same time.

this is rather easy to do in Houdini, because of the point attributes.. just curious if i could do something like this in PFlow

Yes you can. There is a .particleID property. This allows you to identify specific particles. There are also several functions like GetParticlePositionByID that take advantage of this.

I found these functions (or their equivalents in SDK) can be very slow. This may not be surprising as I assume the implementation need to look up the index using some kind of (hash) table.

For what you want to do you may not need it though. You need to create a birth script that creates a particle for each vertex of your mesh/spline. If only I had access to my home computer, I'd send it...

Rogier

byvfx
03-09-2006, 04:58 AM
thanks for the reply

amckay
03-09-2006, 10:40 PM
Hey Rogier, just saw your name there - I've been jumping through a bunch of jobs and then took a quick vacation to tokyo - so I'm hoping this weekend to nut through a few months worth of email, so I'll if I have any I haven't replied to of yours I'll try to get onto them asap ;)

Cheers - AM

DeKo-LT
03-12-2006, 02:07 PM
dekovv I've been meaning to do a bunch of free highend tuts for my site, just been so friggin busy I've had 0 time to do anything but work.

I was in Tokyo last week, I flew home for a day to pack my bags for another job and flew off again same day :\

as for sig, potentially I will be, I should follow it up with autodesk, just again been too busy.
#$#!@$!#

Looking forward to late May where I can take a week off! hah

Hey, allan i'm just kidding :rolleyes:.
I believe that you have a lot of work,
for us (i thing) is a big honour to learning from your tutorial :bowdown:
just don't stop in future share your knowledge(if you have free time of course).:thumbsup: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)


Best Regards :beer:

visualchaosfx
03-13-2006, 05:04 AM
Hey Allen. I just noticed on your website that you did some work on Superman Returns. What effects did you do in the film?

thehive
03-13-2006, 03:54 PM
is there a way to bulid up a building with instance geomerty that follows a pattern in pflow

mabe make one building the full mesh as the taget, but still how to tell pflow what part go where any ideas

well if theres a better way let know
thanks

amckay
03-13-2006, 11:28 PM
wildstormfilms - hey mate, can't really say just yet - movies pretty heavily under wraps, so once the films out I'm sure most people will be more vocal. I jumped off the project a few months after it stopped filming, so there's dozens of other guys who've done a lot more heavier amounts of work on the film that I did so I definitely don't want to steal their glory and hard work ;)

thehive - I might be too hungover to understand but do you want to elborate a bit more on what you're trying to do?

visualchaosfx
03-14-2006, 12:45 AM
wildstormfilms - hey mate, can't really say just yet - movies pretty heavily under wraps, so once the films out I'm sure most people will be more vocal. I jumped off the project a few months after it stopped filming, so there's dozens of other guys who've done a lot more heavier amounts of work on the film that I did so I definitely don't want to steal their glory and hard work ;)

Thats cool. You had a big hand doing the vampire ashing shots in Blade Trinity, didn't you?

thehive
03-14-2006, 02:07 PM
hey amckay

im tryin to figure out a way to reconstruct a building using pflow in a sequintail order laying each brick one at a time but it has to be in a order to maintain the block order also the process has to be uniform with offsets to the blocks so they all dont fly in at once. hope that helps

Ian Jones
03-14-2006, 02:18 PM
How about using a collision plane, as you move it vertically through the walls it could trigger the bricks layer by layer. Ultimately though, a scripted solution would be advantageous.

thehive
03-14-2006, 03:05 PM
hmm interesting could you eloborat a bit more on the colision plane idea

loran
03-14-2006, 04:46 PM
thehive,
Is this that kind of animation you want to do?
This is done with fracture script and a sphere colision.very simple to set up.
The render is reverse in AfterEffects.(I think it would be very time consuming to reverse the PF animation in max!)
You could do a path animated deflector to enhance precision.

Building video (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/building-PF.mov)
Building max file (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/building-PF.max)

loran
03-14-2006, 05:19 PM
I mean like that :


Building video V2 (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/building-PF2.mov)

Building max 8 file v2 (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/building-PF2.max)


(http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/building-PF2.max)

thehive
03-14-2006, 05:41 PM
yea that works man ill check it out, tvery much apreceated

loran
03-15-2006, 01:57 PM
I've just released a new tutorial for Particle Flow and the use of fracture script on my brand new web site!
check it out and tell me wath you think about!

The site is still under construction... nothing else but this tutorial to see ;)

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/

DeKo-LT
03-15-2006, 02:24 PM
loran ->
nice tutorial, for newbies (i thing) is very useful :thumbsup:

jussing
03-15-2006, 02:55 PM
Wauw, thanks Loran!

- Jonas

amckay
03-16-2006, 10:27 PM
Wildstormfilms - yeah originally the whole blade trinity ashing pipeline was my baby - but my US visa took faar too long to process, so had to jump in a month late, so still do a huge number of shots and developed a lot of areas of the pipe, but guys like Mitch Gates and Jason Crosby developed a majority of the initial pipeline over at DD.

At digital media festival end of last year, I had to do a presentation for autodesk on visual effects, so I thought as a good plug for Catastrophic - I'd demonstrate some of the tools I've developed to help speed up workflow in production. So I showed a 3 click process for getting a vampire to ash, essentailly selecting the character, choosing where on the body the impact should be, and just typing in the speed it should happen and hitting execute, and the app goes through the whole process of creating the whole ashing effect. It had more fundemental controls than that for visualizing the effect, but essentially that was the process - so it was cool developing tools like that, so you spend more time finnessing the effect to how you want it to look rather than just building the same effect over and over and over.

DeKo-LT
03-16-2006, 11:16 PM
Very interesting, can't wait to see it :rolleyes:
It's like a Impact System Tool by P.Ferreira?

feldy
03-17-2006, 04:45 AM
Hey Allan


Just wondering if you ever heard anything from turbo squid about the dvd. Weve been waiting months for it. Im really interested in seeing your lava stuff you had did for it. I'm sure there are plenty of others waiting to see the rest of it as well. Any news would be swell. Thanks much

depleteD
03-19-2006, 12:53 AM
Yea that procedural approach to those ashing process is bad ass. I assume u pick a point and it has to translate that place on the mesh to uv coordinates so a animated ramp can originate from there? Does that require a script or can it be achieved off the shelf?

PsychoSilence
03-20-2006, 12:28 PM
I mean like that :


Building video V2 (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/building-PF2.mov)

Building max 8 file v2 (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/building-PF2.max)


(http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/building-PF2.max)

Dear Loran,

iŽm still running max 7.1 :( would you mind posting the script or a downgraded version? iŽm really curious about how it is done with the buildings :(

regards and thanks in advance

anselm aka. PsychoSilence

Nazgul
03-20-2006, 02:23 PM
Hi
I applied Afterburn to a bunch of particles. Now am rendering my result and I see lines in my render. I'm using the octane shader. They seem to be global to my afterburn "cloud". I tried fiddling around with the steps and the falloff but it doesn't change anything.
It doesn't see to appear with the Raymarcher shader.

Any clue?
Thanks!

mathmaxer
03-26-2006, 11:57 AM
this is my first particle flow test
I use AE 6.5 for Final fire
and Special thank for allan mckay for his tuts

Tunac
03-26-2006, 06:18 PM
nice ,...but how did you achieved that great material
have you done most of it in AE or in max?

mathmaxer
03-26-2006, 09:11 PM
nice ,...but how did you achieved that great material
have you done most of it in AE or in max?

the max File and AE File in the attachment

amckay
03-27-2006, 12:35 AM
great work!

Tunac
03-27-2006, 12:28 PM
sory but i should have been more specific...
i dont have v-ray and i'm interested in material you used in max

oatz
03-27-2006, 04:45 PM
this is my first particle flow test
I use AE 6.5 for Final fire
and Special thank for allan mckay for his tuts
I'm getting a corrupt message for the zip.

Khye

Mattaeus
03-29-2006, 12:53 AM
Hi guys, i've been working my way through several pflow tutorials, and allan's advanced visual effects dvd (great dvd btw!), but need some help.
Basically i want a TEXTURED mesh to disperse into separate particles in the same way as allan's teapot does. For example a character dispersing from head to foot.
Its an effect often mention i know, and its straightforward with a coloured object, but how do you replace a textured object with particles?

Hope that makes sense :)

OlegB
03-29-2006, 11:28 AM
but how do you replace a textured object with particles?
Either by scripting - see Bobo's tutorial 'Inherit Texel Color From Emitter' at http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/
or
by using Mapping Object operator from PFTools:Box#1 plug-in - see the animation 'Mapping Object Wipes' at the Orbaz gallery http://www.orbaz.com/gallery.html, and the details about the operator here: http://www.orbaz.com/products/particle-flow-tools-painting.html

Thanks,
Oleg B.

Mattaeus
03-29-2006, 12:56 PM
Thanks Oleg, i figured it must need something extra than pflow has. That mapping object wipe example is exactly what i had in mind. It looks very solid before the dispersion, yet the particles seem quite large. Am i right in thinking that you can use any number of particles, and it will always appear as a solid mesh? For example have it split into 10 separate particles, or does it need the current method of using thousands of particles to look solid?