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amckay
08-09-2005, 02:48 PM
I built a pretty cool flocking system for a bad disney movie a few years back for swarming bees.... it was in maya and I used a lot of sin, cos and noise functions to give them more activity in their flight, although like Brian said you can probably use turbulence with a high frequency, might want some drag on their to stop them going haywire. Also a find target (above the force in the event stack) with a low max speed could be good to help control them.

artiza, yeah use actual fluids, you'll get much better motion rather than particles.

should really get jesus and satni in here to help answer glu q's...

Neejoh
08-09-2005, 04:51 PM
yeah, get them in here ;) I'm not sure how to use the wetmaps. I know how to use them (vid tute), but I'm not getting result that I'm after.
When you've got an simple glass filled with fluids and you shake it a bit, the water stays on the glass and slowly drips down... wait, I'll look for a example...
[edit]
Download example (http://www10.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~sinithue/public/phd/nthuerey_050731_sgposter.avi) <== @ 23 seconds.
Is this even posible with Glu3d? The wetmaps I used didn't even come close...


neejoh no no, pwrapper is glu's metaballs mesh for use with pflow rather than using blobmesh etc. daniel ferrera and I bitched too much to jesus and satni to release it by itself cause it's so much faster than anything else for max
Allan yes yes, you're right ;) You were saying that you can better use Glu3d instead of Pflow/Pwrapper...

Tak Tak
08-09-2005, 08:26 PM
Thanks for reply amckay and finalight.

OK, here is very quick and short preview about it. I solved that problem in XSI and have that kind of result (codec is techSmith).
http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhatak/butterfly_pre.avi

Maybe noise could be little stronger, but it's almost acceptable. What you think?

amckay
08-09-2005, 09:12 PM
yeah not bad - I like it.
we're doing a butterfly for a film right now for a film here at Frantic.. But we're animating it be hand since it's just one butterfly with pretty specific needs.

Nice work

jigu
08-10-2005, 02:23 AM
[edit]
Download example (http://www10.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~sinithue/public/phd/nthuerey_050731_sgposter.avi) <== @ 23 seconds.
Is this even posible with Glu3d? The wetmaps I used didn't even come close...




yes neejoh it is possible with glu3d. all u need to do is proper scene setup. try this max a concave box.fill the another box(within that concave box) with glu3d particles.also position the sphere above the surface of that second box.also fill that sphere with another glu3d's particles.
now animate that sphere using reactor to get proper simulation of sphere interacting with that second box mesh.(which is actually water.) now if u go for gl3d simulation it will work.
wait i m doing in max and nice idea.

jigu
08-10-2005, 04:12 AM
well guys i need little help!! i m trying to fill the one box from another box's glu3d particles.when i do the simulation some particles r leaking from that particle;s box geometry(in which partciles r stored.) ....some particles rn;t colliding with box geometry and leaking away from box.how can i solve this?

jigu
08-10-2005, 04:19 AM
well guys i need little help!! i m trying to fill the one box from another box's glu3d particles.when i do the simulation some particles r leaking from that particle;s box geometry(in which partciles r stored.) ....some particles rn;t colliding with box geometry and leaking away from box.how can i solve this?

Tak Tak
08-10-2005, 05:51 AM
yeah not bad - I like it.
we're doing a butterfly for a film right now for a film here at Frantic.. But we're animating it be hand since it's just one butterfly with pretty specific needs.

Nice work
Thanks amckay.

It is not a realistic one, but for this time I think it's enough. Maybe I should take some research of particle controls. Maybe have to use some expression or something to force butterflys movement so when it flaps it goes up or down. Not only randomly up and down and flap loop.

Or maybe for realistic result I should animate one butterfly by hand and copy it and add some offsets.

amckay
08-10-2005, 02:07 PM
I wouldn't go that far, butterfly's flap very quickly, and pflow script doesn't ;)

Neejoh
08-10-2005, 05:11 PM
yes neejoh it is possible with glu3d. all u need to do is proper scene setup. try this max a concave box.fill the another box(within that concave box) with glu3d particles.also position the sphere above the surface of that second box.also fill that sphere with another glu3d's particles.
now animate that sphere using reactor to get proper simulation of sphere interacting with that second box mesh.(which is actually water.) now if u go for gl3d simulation it will work.
wait i m doing in max and nice idea.
Not really having problems with the setup of it in Glu3d, but I can't seem to get the wetmaps right so it looks like the water sticks to the sides and slowly drips down from it. If you know what I mean ;)

Tak Tak
08-10-2005, 07:50 PM
I wouldn't go that far, butterfly's flap very quickly, and pflow script doesn't ;)
Haha, yeah and PFlow is extremely slow when there is animated instance object... Could be better :D

jigu
08-11-2005, 03:18 AM
ell neejoh if u post animation we can see where u having problem and what kind of!! it will be gr8 to help someone!!:)

grab viewport preview or post rendered anim.

jigu
08-11-2005, 03:23 AM
well amckacy and guys,
can u help me to make lightening effect?

i want to animate lightining falling down on particular object.i know it can possible using target test. but i m not getting how to animate zigzag motion of lightening.can it possible to do with pflow? i have seen petedraper;s tutorial but it is little complicated.

or it is possible to do withing compositing softwares?

SoLiTuDe
08-11-2005, 03:41 AM
aftereffects has a built in lightning generator -- may work for some basic needs... the plugin can also be used in combustion...

jigu
08-11-2005, 03:44 AM
thanks but i don;t know much in aftereffects and i know only combustion can u tell me which plugin it is? or is possible to do it without plugin in combustion?

SoLiTuDe
08-11-2005, 07:21 AM
well... i don't think combustion comes with it, so I don't know of any other way to do it. there was an old plugin for max that had the same thing built in basically, called thor or something. Haven't seen it in a while tho.

jigu
08-11-2005, 07:48 AM
yes it;s called digimation;s lightening plugin!! but it;s not much good.i think so.

jigu
08-11-2005, 09:17 AM
well guys i just have recorded tutorial which i would like to post here. it shows how to convert one object to another object using pflow.and also shows particles transport use.it is inspired from charley caralat;s particles transport test.
here is that test animation.
http://jigu.actkid.com/objconvert.mov

i hope it will be usefull for beginners and intermediaters.
here is the download link to tutorial.

http://www.turboupload.com/d/23012/objconvert.avi.AVI.html

amckay
08-11-2005, 03:01 PM
I'd never tackle lightning with particles. Lighting is a 2-3 frames (MAX!) on screen, and there's just lots of illumination flick in the clouds. I'd perhaps do 3d clouds or at least a 3D lighting pass with afterburn for the light interactiong but the lightning itself I'd either use a plugin in 3d or 2d or else just hand draw a spline and animate it in combustion and apply glow to that layer.

charleyc
08-11-2005, 05:48 PM
I played around with Lightening and PFlow a while back. For some things it could work well, for others, I don't know that it would be worth the time compared to the just 2d hand animated bolts as Allan mentioned.

Anyway, here are the tests that I did.
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Electricity.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Electricity.avi)
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Electricity.zip (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Electricity.zip) Max File

www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/LightningBolt.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/LightningBolt.avi)
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/LightningBolt.zip (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/LightningBolt.zip) Max File

These are quite rough.

g8ff
08-11-2005, 08:18 PM
There was a scripting challenge over in the MaxScript forum a couple weeks ago dealing specifically with lighting. Some of the results the guys came up with were quite nice. Basically handled it like Allan and Charley suggested, via the spline. Definantly worth checking out.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=257572

-Geoff

jigu
08-12-2005, 07:47 AM
thanks GURUJI!! :) :scream: i agree with u .rather than doing using pflow or particles ....it is easy to do with animated spline.i think i should use edit poly(animate feature) feature for animating the lightening.

so particles rn;t best solution for lightening.it seems very time consuming.but it can work.

thanks charley for files!!

PeteDraper
08-12-2005, 09:08 AM
can it possible to do with pflow? i have seen petedraper;s tutorial but it is little complicated.

or it is possible to do withing compositing softwares?

I presume you're referring to the lightning gun tutorial on my site - if so, half of it to two thirds could be stripped out for a basic lightning effect, as the majority concentrates on the electric beams (the main gun fire) and spark effects. One thing that it does do though is automatically arc to the learest surface and emit a shower of sparks, so if the source is animated, the arcing will travel accordingly, which looks really cool :) !

There's also another lightning tutorial in the video tutorials seciton of the DTE book... again, this is particle driven, which draws out several forked lightning strikes and cloud illumination over 1000 frames, which we then render off about 10 frames staggered over the 100 frames to get a nice fast strike. This plate is then comped back into the original plate using a simple additive layer in max.

This might sound like overkill for a few strikes, and it is. The aim of the tutorial(s) was to observe and produce the effect while learning about the software and being able to adapt it to suit your needs. If you only need a quick strike, then source some lightning images / footage, extract the strike and paint it in using your compositing software as it will be quicker!

pete

jigu
08-12-2005, 10:39 AM
hi pete...

well i m not saying that use of particles is completly waste to make lightenining effect.i saw ur tutorial in my DTE book.but i think i wasn;t clear in my question i asked how to make lightening falling down on particular object?

well about ur on site tutorial i didn;t see that yet.(i know it;s there).i will check it out soon when i will have time.(and still some cool stuff left to check out)

This might sound like overkill for a few strikes, and it is. The aim of the tutorial(s) was to observe and produce the effect while learning about the software and being able to adapt it to suit your needs.

BTW i m not against ur tutorial and i don;t want to hurt ur feeling. i respect ur stuff and learned from it a lot.but i wasn;t clear in my question so. may be u got me wrong!!

Werewolf006
08-12-2005, 11:38 AM
Pete, can we adapt your tuturial (the one in Computer arts and your site) for a Plasma sphere effect? I failed following your entire Tuturial because my PC is old but as I tried making the sphere the particles spread all around.

avolution
08-12-2005, 07:40 PM
I concur with Pete Draper
that PF can be used for lightning
style effects

www.agilemedia.biz/mark/pf-lightning.mpg

amckay
08-12-2005, 09:50 PM
NOOOOOOOO!!!
Pete doesn't know what he's talking about - don't listen to him!! noooo!
yeah you can use it for particles... but for the less talented people like me I'd just use a plugin ;) (I'm lazy).

Just to reiterate, do listen to Pete, I'm just being a dick ;)



I head back to Australia in a few days, woop!

Pete - So if I came to England are you gonna buy me a beer? : )

sadghost
08-12-2005, 09:55 PM
hey Allan good to hear that you will BE home soon , you know why ? :rolleyes: o.k I'll give you a hint "DVD" :bounce:

Daniel-B
08-13-2005, 12:52 AM
Hey guys. I've been working for several months now on and off trying to create a realistic lava planet environment like the one seen at the end of Episode III.

Well, here is a little test I whipped up this morning. Now, I know the steam looks like crap. I need to work on it. But what do you guys think about the lava, and the overall image?

http://s112352282.onlinehome.us/MustafarEnvironmentTest01.mov

DeKo-LT
08-13-2005, 08:38 AM
Hello guys here is a video tutorial(created by me :) ) on creating effect similar to lighting bolts:

http://www.cgtalk.lt/tutorial/video/Pflow_GrowPlant.avi (Techsmith codec required)
http://www.cgtalk.lt/tutorial/video/Pflow_GrowPlant_scenes.zip

with this method i created like a crystalize snowflake(it's not finished yet)

http://deko.cgtalk.lt/crystalize_test2.jpg
Video :
http://deko.cgtalk.lt/crystalize_test2.wmv

Scene:
http://deko.cgtalk.lt/Crystalize_test2.zip (http://deko.cgtalk.lt/Crystalize_test2.zip)

Cheers :thumbsup:

ArtiZta
08-13-2005, 12:34 PM
Great lava burst Pixel,
as for the steam I think it might need some interaction with the platform, maybe play with some light intesity to simulate light of the active lava on the platform and put some heatwave distortion might look lice, overall it looks great :)

Allan, glu3D is working cool, I haven't managed to make it more detail yet, coz I'm having problems of its burst at the begining. What I have is an object filled with glu's fill object, gravity put to 0 coz I want the liquid to float. But I'm having problems on how to make the liquid start moving slowly not exploding.... is there any other force in glu3D I don't know?...
any suggestions?... thanks before.

this is a sample of what kind of fx/liquid burst I'm looking for, but without the object. The object should change into the liquid burst.

http://gzone.jp/images/mainimg.jpg

cheers
:)

Mills
08-13-2005, 04:00 PM
Been wondering how this was done
Here is the link if anyone wants to see it in motion http://gzone.jp/

Airflow
08-13-2005, 06:39 PM
If pete dont buy you a beer.. I will make up for his error of judgment and get one for ya in his stead..... btw pete you in london???

Neejoh
08-13-2005, 07:52 PM
That's one cool tutorial you made there DeKoVV! Tried something like that myself, but you just brought it to another level.

Boa
08-14-2005, 08:51 AM
Hello guys here is a video tutorial(created by me :) ) on creating effect similar to lighting bolts:

http://www.cgtalk.lt/tutorial/video/Pflow_GrowPlant.avi (Techsmith codec required)
http://www.cgtalk.lt/tutorial/video/Pflow_GrowPlant_scenes.zip



Really nice and flexible approach, thanks for sharing!

Andrea

jigu
08-14-2005, 09:54 AM
Hey guys. I've been working for several months now on and off trying to create a realistic lava planet environment like the one seen at the end of Episode III.

Well, here is a little test I whipped up this morning. Now, I know the steam looks like crap. I need to work on it. But what do you guys think about the lava, and the overall image?

http://s112352282.onlinehome.us/MustafarEnvironmentTest01.mov

nice looking lava!! as for steam r u sure that u r using particle age map to fade opacity of steam.coz it looks like steam smoke is suddenly being disappeared.

jigu
08-14-2005, 10:04 AM
hey dekcovw thanks for tutorial. i really like it how u did.i never thinked before that we can do this kinda animation with pflow.

PeteDraper
08-14-2005, 11:06 AM
the_jigu - heheheh, no problem chief ;)

Werewolf - Yeah no problem... go nuts with it, but post the result ;) Actually, I began developing a Plasma Ball for a tutorial about a couple of years ago, but wasn't happy with the result. Might dig it out after I've got the one(s) I'm working on for the mag sorted...

Avolution - looks good, though the particles seem to be going out in a stream which may be a bit too slow, plus there's no arcing, which results in a "water cannon" effect. We filmed a lightning storm over here about a month ago... I'll see if I can dig out the pictures for the arc changes between pulses (normally lasting about a frame).

Allan - Yeah but it's your round first, ya gobshite ;) There used to be a really ace plugin out there for lightning, circa Max2 (ish), but I'll be damned if I can find it anymore. The only one I've found is Lightning on Digimation, but if memory serves this one was called Thor, and had some really nice controls and arcing effects. Next time you come over here we'll drag Kieron and Chris out.

PixelMagic - Nice job on the lava bursts! I'm currently debating whether to develop one I've got in cold storage further, or convert it to a geyser effect which is more tricky due to particle mass weighting and emission method. Nice use of emission though - i'm guessing animated maps for emission positions and velocity, plus some clumping effects with Keep Apart?

Airflow - Nope, I'm currently living in the South West... cider country (even though I hate the stuff)

Dekovv - Nice work :)

Right, I'm off to buy a fish.

Pete

jigu
08-14-2005, 11:15 AM
lol...pete , u and allan r really funny!!

Daniel-B
08-14-2005, 08:41 PM
PixelMagic - Nice job on the lava bursts! I'm currently debating whether to develop one I've got in cold storage further, or convert it to a geyser effect which is more tricky due to particle mass weighting and emission method. Nice use of emission though - i'm guessing animated maps for emission positions and velocity, plus some clumping effects with Keep Apart?


Pete, please go ahead and finish up your lava burst. I would love to see yours. It would probably be better than mine.

And actually, that's not how I made them. They are being emitted with differently spaced planes that are animated to move randomly. Also, I rendered several passes of particles and composited them together for a more dense lava burst. The were rendered as red and orange particles out of max, and using After Effects I added glows and whatnot.

Actually, here is a new shot that I did to test them again. It's an unused shot from EPISODE III. The original shot had nothing but the two pillars, and the actors against bluescreen. Everything else is done by me. Critiques are welcome...

http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0I17QRF6RLMR708NI5YVSPBJSB (http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0I17QRF6RLMR708NI5YVSPBJSB)

stafford
08-14-2005, 09:08 PM
Hi,

Just a stupid question (no time yet to read the whole PF topic, sorry). How can I use PF to emit omni lights?

Thx!

Regards,

stafford

Neejoh
08-14-2005, 09:23 PM
Hi,

Just a stupid question (no time yet to read the whole PF topic, sorry). How can I use PF to emit omni lights?

Thx!

Regards,

stafford
--edit: Nope, didn't work.. Just tried something myself but I guess you'll end up using some scripting..

jigu
08-15-2005, 07:07 AM
well guys plz check out this link!!

http://jigu.actkid.com/820-9_l.mov
http://jigu.actkid.com/820-13_l.mov

anyone has any idea how to create this kind of big cloud system?
i did try myselt with afterburn!! it;s very time consuming when it comes to rendering.can i create those kind of effect using atmospheric appratrus. or using different size of sphere in pflow (as a shape) and assigning puffy cloud material can make this kinda system?
how can it possible to make?

ArtiZta
08-15-2005, 01:44 PM
I think you should be able to do it nice with afterburn, of course time consuming with rendering.. but maybe there is a workaround about it. Allan is the right person to ask.

But maybe you should also be able to do that with sitnisati's dreamscape. I'm not sure but, as I remember you can move the camera above the cloud level be right there where you want it. Although it will also be time consuming when rendering with 3D clouds. It can make colouds like those for sure.

cheers

oatz
08-15-2005, 05:34 PM
Hi,

Just a stupid question (no time yet to read the whole PF topic, sorry). How can I use PF to emit omni lights?

Thx!

Regards,

stafford
Creating/deleting objects in a pflow script is very haphazard and will result in a lot of crashing. I worked on a project that needed this and you're much better off creating all the lights out of view and then use your pflow script to transform the position (see bobo's tutorial (http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__MovingObjects.htm)) and flip it on using something like a #preRenderEval in maxscript.

Khye

BrianHarbauer
08-15-2005, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by stafford
Hi,

Just a stupid question (no time yet to read the whole PF topic, sorry). How can I use PF to emit omni lights?

Thx!

Regards,

stafford


If your using Mental Ray as your renderer, give your particles a material and a self illumination value, then turn on Final Gathering. If you want the particles to emit a brighter light, just up the output from 1.0 to something higher.

Hope this helps.


I guess this next question goes to Allan Mckay. Have you had any experiance or know anything about FLOOD by Frantic Films? It looks pretty cool. From the videos it looks alot like real flow, but then again... i don't know a whole lot about that. Just curious. ArtiZta, you might be interested in this too.

http://software.franticfilms.com/index.aspx?page=flood

feldy
08-15-2005, 08:55 PM
also allan weres this new dvd at buddy siggraph has left the building. cant wait to see it.

ArtiZta
08-16-2005, 04:07 PM
I guess this next question goes to Allan Mckay. Have you had any experiance or know anything about FLOOD by Frantic Films? It looks pretty cool. From the videos it looks alot like real flow, but then again... i don't know a whole lot about that. Just curious. ArtiZta, you might be interested in this too.

http://software.franticfilms.com/index.aspx?page=flood

Yes, I really am, was looking to contact them about the chance for future betas. I'm still looking for good liquid simulation which won't kill the machine. Btw, I'm still having problems on solving the simulation I'm doing. Glu3D is not that easy to control... or it's just me that can't figure out the good solution for it.
need help.

cheers

amckay
08-16-2005, 08:03 PM
Feldy, I took the wrong harddisk with me when I left Australia so I decided it's too much trouble to get my gf to mail it over since I was going to be back soon and I'm too busy over here.

So I'll be back in AU Friday so I'll try and get it done next week and talk to Turbosquid about releasing it.


Artiza: I'll speak to Jesus and get him to come in here and help answer some Glu Q's.

amckay
08-16-2005, 08:09 PM
I work in Flood every day: It does a lot more than real flow, it can do smoke and a dozen other things. It's the most physically correct simulator I've ever used.

clouds can render fairly well, what are your problems? what stepsize/density are you using? what scene scale?

jesped
08-16-2005, 11:41 PM
Allan, glu3D is working cool, I haven't managed to make it more detail yet, coz I'm having problems of its burst at the begining. What I have is an object filled with glu's fill object, gravity put to 0 coz I want the liquid to float. But I'm having problems on how to make the liquid start moving slowly not exploding.... is there any other force in glu3D I don't know?...
any suggestions?... thanks before.

this is a sample of what kind of fx/liquid burst I'm looking for, but without the object. The object should change into the liquid burst.

http://gzone.jp/images/mainimg.jpg

cheers
:)

Maybe you can use animated splines with the glu3D PathFollow Space Warp or animated object with the ObjAttractor SW.

Also, increasing the fps before simulating will make the fluid move in slow-motion when you go back to normal play rate.

oatz
08-17-2005, 12:36 AM
There was a question over in the max forum about changing color as particles slowed into a collision. My solution attached is to output the distance the particles to the 'deflector' (a helper in this case) and sets the distance as the age, and then use an age map in teh diffuse.

Any other ideas of how you could do this based on speed?
*EDIT********************************
Here's one that uses teh speed to set the color.
*************************************
Just curious,

Khye

ArtiZta
08-17-2005, 11:46 AM
Maybe you can use animated splines with the glu3D PathFollow Space Warp or animated object with the ObjAttractor SW.

Also, increasing the fps before simulating will make the fluid move in slow-motion when you go back to normal play rate.

Yes... just the right person to be asked. Thanks Allan.
Anyway, How are you jesped?, you've been away from glu3D's forum for a while. Well, I do have some questions regarding using PathFollow & ObjAttractor.

I can't make it to attract a portion of particles, same as with pathfollow. It only follows one bind. Also sometimes it groups its self in one of the spline bends while the spline is still long. Is there any workaround that? I'm aslo having problems with fill object. What I have is an object filled with "object fill" needing to shape the object in blob looking shape. And set the gavity to 0, wanting to make the liquid float but it endsup bursting/exploding tooooo fast.

As for fps, did you mean actual fps in the max? or to play with glu's subsample?..

sorry for so many questions :)

Milan

BrianHarbauer
08-19-2005, 05:22 AM
Allan, thanks for the reply about flood. Sounds great! From the stuff on the website, I didn't realize it smoke stuff too. All the more power to it! Thanks again.

depleteD
08-21-2005, 04:47 PM
Man I just saw a preview aboiut box 3 and how its going to allow you to make your own operators. Oh man that is so freaking cool. Prolly old news here tho. When is Box 2 gonna be out? SUmmer is almost over.

-Andrew

oatz
08-21-2005, 08:40 PM
Man I just saw a preview aboiut box 3 and how its going to allow you to make your own operators. Oh man that is so freaking cool. Prolly old news here tho. When is Box 2 gonna be out? SUmmer is almost over.

-Andrew

Here's the story from Oleg:


We gave the development priority to Box#3 in order to have more build-in functionality in Box#2 later. You may know about the "script wiring" ability of some Particle Flow operators. Namely, you can right-click on Force or Keep Apart operator in Particle View and select 'Use Script Wiring' option. As a result, the operator gains additional rollout with script wiring options. For Force operator, for example, you can use Script Float channel to define individual influence for each particle.

The problem with this "script wiring" approach is the scarcity of the script data channels - you have one of each Integer, Float, Vector and Matrix data channels. Therefore, with the complex logic of particle interaction you run out of the data channels pretty fast. You can stuff 4 vectors or 12 floats into the matrix channel but still...

Box#3 resolves this issue completely. You have unlimited number of data channels, with the variety of types: Boolean, integer, float, time, vector, quaternion, matrix and more. The data channels are created by the 'Output New' sub-operator, and then they can be used by other sub-operators. These data channels can also be used for information transfer between different Data Operators, and even between different particle systems!

All in all, we thought that it would be nice for the operators in Box#2 to work with the custom data channels in the manner similar to the "script wiring" in the standard Particle Flow. But for that the Box#3 has to be implemented first, as you can see.

Here's the link about Particle Flow Tools Box#3 as presented at SIGGRAPH: http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317

Khye

Shadow_545
08-22-2005, 11:06 PM
I've been messing around with particle flow yesterday and came up with this little thing. One question I have is what do you think the line of black at the top is from? I used facing particles, so I'm thinking maybe its just the area where they're facing a certain way and just aren't showing up?

https://webspace.utexas.edu/cmc994/test6small.mov?uniq=uxcjf7 (https://webspace.utexas.edu/cmc994/test6small.mov?uniq=uxcjf7)

SoLiTuDe
08-23-2005, 04:55 AM
wierd. i doubt it's from the facing particles, as it goes all the way across the image. What happens when you render from another angle?

Shadow_545
08-23-2005, 05:00 AM
Well actually I saw that if I rotated the camera a bit forward (starting to look down at the particles) the line went away. However, the particle animation looks better from this vantage point. I've done about 3 other variations of the same animation and they all have the line.

Cryptite
08-23-2005, 05:01 AM
Try rotating the whole scene + the camera... That's pretty cool, though... how did you make the particles glow?

Shadow_545
08-23-2005, 05:15 AM
Well, rotating it gets rid of the line, but for some reason the glow looks different now, when it shouldn't. Not to bad looking, but I'll keep working on it.

Well I used a custom MR shader that uses the glow lume, but it doesn't get that nice glow look until I used glare. If I render it without using glare, it's a slightly glowing whiteish color, but with glare it gets that nice almost firery look.

SoLiTuDe
08-23-2005, 05:16 AM
hook it up with a copy of that shader :) ..what happens if you make the particles spheres or something?

Shadow_545
08-23-2005, 05:53 AM
There we go, I fixed it. Thanks Cryptite! I rotated it too much last time. I've now rotated it just enough to get rid of the line without changing the colors. Here's a different variation on the same cross idea (without a line):

https://webspace.utexas.edu/cmc994/test7small.mov?uniq=-a5c2wq

@SoLiTuDe
Yah, I can post up some pics of the shader tomorrow for you to look at. I made the custom shader based on one of Jeff Patton's shader ideas.

Below is some pics of the same frame, but with different shapes used (all have motion blur on, which allows for that cool look), not a whole lot of difference, but since you asked. Without the motion blur it looks like a huge cloud of glowing spheres/cubes/tetras.

Facing:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/6121/facing6kw.jpg

Sphere:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/7015/spheres1ni.jpg

Cubes:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/9092/cubes7eh.jpg

Tetras:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/7500/tetra3dj.jpg

CrackleWax
08-23-2005, 07:01 AM
just subscribing to the thread...


Obi

PsychoSilence
08-23-2005, 12:08 PM
nice one shadow! would you share the file?

DangerousCliff
08-23-2005, 06:26 PM
perhaps this is old hat, but i did a search and couldn't find a thread already, so, ill ask.

ive set up a PF for a bunch of planes to scale from zero, move a random bit, scale back to zero, then die. no problem, easy setup.

the problem is, i'm trying to map random video clips to the planes- easy enough, there are two ways to do it: a group of planes with individual materials, or a single plane with a dynamic material operator in the PF. no problems here.

now, my difficulty is syncing the video to the life of the particle. 80 frames of video, particle life, 80 frames. as it is now, every so often all the video in all the planes cycle, giving a really jarring frame in the middle of an otherwise smooth animation.

i've tried every setting in all three material operators, and cannot figure out a way to get this working. it's probably something stupid i've overlooked, but any help will be appreciated.

charleyc
08-23-2005, 06:42 PM
You use the Dynamic Material Op and then I believe there is a check box in the Bitmap parameter of the Material that Syncs by Particle Age

oatz
08-23-2005, 09:41 PM
Some news over at Orbaz: Link (http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=352)

Khye

Shadow_545
08-23-2005, 09:47 PM
@PsychoSilence Sure, here's the scene. SoLiTuDe and Cryptite, you guys can look at the shader in there.

https://webspace.utexas.edu/cmc994/ParticleFlowCross.zip?uniq=b1xwyc

Steve Green
08-23-2005, 09:53 PM
Hi,

any idea if the physics hardware could speed up other things like space warps (wind etc.) or is it purely for collision?

I guess they'd need special versions of the various space warps that are hardware aware, but just wondered if that kind of acceleration is within the scope of the card.

Thanks,

Steve

DangerousCliff
08-23-2005, 10:03 PM
I believe there is a check box in the Bitmap parameter of the Material that Syncs by Particle Age

brilliant- there it is. i was looking for it in the operator, not the material settings. thanks!

DoubleSupercool
08-23-2005, 11:17 PM
charlyc: thanks for that. I was also tearing my hair out looking for it in PFlow. So many buttons to learn . . .

Shadow_545
08-24-2005, 04:17 AM
One thing I don't get is that Particle Flow is so powerful and good and yet why isn't there a simple operator that allows you to select a spline and have particles follow it? It seems like it would be such a simple thing. Actually, it would be as simple as being able to use a Path Follow force, which for some reason particle doesn't recognize out of all of the forces.

JHaywood
08-24-2005, 04:38 AM
One thing I don't get is that Particle Flow is so powerful and good and yet why isn't there a simple operator that allows you to select a spline and have particles follow it? It seems like it would be such a simple thing. Actually, it would be as simple as being able to use a Path Follow force, which for some reason particle doesn't recognize out of all of the forces.

Speed By Icon.
Constrain the icon to the path.

Shadow_545
08-24-2005, 04:54 AM
I've tried that, but it doesn't work very well for me. Instead of having particles streaiming along the spline like I want. The emitter just goes along the path and drops the particles on the path and they don't move. So unless I'm doing somthing wrong that doesn't work.

JHaywood
08-24-2005, 05:10 AM
There's a seperate icon that shows up when you use the Speed By Icon operater, called "Speed By Icon...". Constrain that one to the path, not the emittor icon.

Shadow_545
08-24-2005, 05:18 AM
Hey thanks a lot JHaywood! That's been irritating me for awhile and I had seen different people say use Speed By Icon, but I never realized that there was an icon appearing or whatever. Now I feel dumb!

jigu
08-24-2005, 05:25 AM
hey shadow_545 if u r having confusion.here is the max file that will clear all things.
see the attachment for file!!:)

Shadow_545
08-24-2005, 05:44 AM
@the_jigu I figured it out, but thanks anyways.

Here's some more quick eyecandy:

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/4995/123346wf.jpg

jigu
08-24-2005, 05:46 AM
no problem!! btw nice job on particle glow!!

PsychoSilence
08-24-2005, 09:08 AM
@PsychoSilence Sure, here's the scene. SoLiTuDe and Cryptite, you guys can look at the shader in there.

https://webspace.utexas.edu/cmc994/ParticleFlowCross.zip?uniq=b1xwyc


thank you shadow_545, but the download seems to be vslid for subscription members only :( can´t get it there.

JHaywood
08-24-2005, 02:06 PM
Hey thanks a lot JHaywood! That's been irritating me for awhile and I had seen different people say use Speed By Icon, but I never realized that there was an icon appearing or whatever. Now I feel dumb!

That one got me too at first, so don't feel bad. :)

depleteD
08-24-2005, 03:50 PM
Ah thats sweet, I always wondered how to get particles to go along a spline. Honestly i had no idea how to use that speed by icon operator, every time i tried to use it i would just get mad. Damn learning imperments. SO I went and drank till I passed out. everytime.....

Shadow_545
08-24-2005, 04:39 PM
thank you shadow_545, but the download seems to be vslid for subscription members only :( can´t get it there.

hmmm sorry about that, see if this link works. I just started using this college web space, so I'm not sure exactly what's going on. Let me know if it doesn't work and I'll keep working on it.

https://webspace.utexas.edu/cmc994/ParticleFlowCross.zip

Cryptite
08-24-2005, 08:57 PM
To Allan (since your working on the same kind of thing as me atm), or anyone who can help. I'm trying to automatically keyframe lights with script operators in pflow. I basically have a muzzle flash and lights that are already existant in the scene. I have them linked to the particles and that, for the most part, works. Problem I'm having is actually getting the scripts to correctly keyframe the lights. I have a thread thats more specific (and includes the code) of what i'm doing over at the orbaz forums. Here (http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1544)is the thread. Thanks in advance; i've been trying to figure this out for some time now and no luck... :/

Neejoh
08-24-2005, 09:24 PM
hmmm sorry about that, see if this link works. I just started using this college web space, so I'm not sure exactly what's going on. Let me know if it doesn't work and I'll keep working on it.

https://webspace.utexas.edu/cmc994/ParticleFlowCross.zip
The URL works fine over here, looks a bit strange because of the httpS (secure), but it works like a charm :)

blacknight
08-25-2005, 03:07 PM
heya everyone. got a little pf question i need some particles moving trought a surface and i`m using a speed by surface with continuose control speed and parallel to surface the thing is that i dont know how to get it going in the direction i want. i try setting negative speed but it dosent work all the do is start jumping back and forth. any help i could get with this ¿?

avolution
08-25-2005, 03:59 PM
Apply a regular Speed OP along with the Speed by surface, for example, a Speed along
icon arrow would work well. Personally I never use Speed by Surface due to its non-instant (after all, shouldn't a frame of video render at 1/30 of a second, regardless
of complexity [just kidding])
behaviour...Usually I use a simple script to reverse direction...

CurSpeed=pCont.ParticleSpeed
if CurSpeed.z<0 then CurSpeed.z=(-1.0*CurSpeed.z)
pCont.ParticleSpeed=CurSpeed

of course, most of the time my surfaces are flat planes lying perpendicular to the camera,
so this script doesn't respect any else but flat planes...

Anyhow...hope this helps...



heya everyone. got a little pf question i need some particles moving trought a surface and i`m using a speed by surface with continuose control speed and parallel to surface the thing is that i dont know how to get it going in the direction i want. i try setting negative speed but it dosent work all the do is start jumping back and forth. any help i could get with this ¿?

charleyc
08-25-2005, 04:20 PM
heya everyone. got a little pf question i need some particles moving trought a surface and i`m using a speed by surface with continuose control speed and parallel to surface the thing is that i dont know how to get it going in the direction i want. i try setting negative speed but it dosent work all the do is start jumping back and forth. any help i could get with this ¿?

Just to let you know, there are several things you cannot do well/easily with Speed by Surface alone, that is part of what Lock/Bond of PF Tools Box#1 is for.

avolution
08-25-2005, 04:38 PM
And don't forget the coolness that placement paint, particle paint, and birth paint can
offer as well, not forgetting to mention birth texture...its well worth the $199 US!


Just to let you know, there are several things you cannot do well/easily with Speed by Surface alone, that is part of what Lock/Bond of PF Tools Box#1 is for.

FraGiLe
08-25-2005, 07:26 PM
Hi,

I have a little, simple question : How do I get PFlow Particles to collide with each other ? Inter-Particle collisions, I just sse the Collision etc. operators for deflectors, but not for inter-particle collisions...how do I solve that ?

charleyc
08-25-2005, 07:53 PM
Hi,

I have a little, simple question : How do I get PFlow Particles to collide with each other ? Inter-Particle collisions, I just sse the Collision etc. operators for deflectors, but not for inter-particle collisions...how do I solve that ?

Buy PF Tools Box #2 when it becomes available :)

There is no inter-particle collision in PFlow right now. Depending on what you are doing, you can get some ok results using the Keep Apart Op set to effect by Particle Scale at 100% with little to no falloff. Depending on what exactly you are doing, you can use a couple scripts and Reactor, but this is quite limited in where and what it will do.

PsychoSilence
08-25-2005, 08:08 PM
allen posted an assembly in this thread once i remember. search the forum for "collision" or "inter collision"and you should find it.

regards

anselm

blacknight
08-26-2005, 12:02 PM
i think pf tools will do the trick. i lamost got what i want using the birth textures painting with some vertex color. but the problem is that it crashes a lot and i`m only using about 500 particles. is it pftool or just some max problem. using 7.5 at the moment. but i mean it crash a lot

OlegB
08-26-2005, 08:19 PM
Blacknight,

Could you please report your problem to Orbaz - support-at-orbaz-com ?

Thanks,
Oleg B.

Joel Hooks
08-26-2005, 08:24 PM
Is passing a shape instance mapped with a displacement possible? I am having difficulties with my displaced objects. Basically they do not render at all! Perhaps I am doing something wrong though.

charleyc
08-26-2005, 08:35 PM
Is passing a shape instance mapped with a displacement possible? I am having difficulties with my displaced objects. Basically they do not render at all! Perhaps I am doing something wrong though.

I don't have any problems with this. I can do it both with mental ray and VRay (using material displacement with VRay). What renderer are you using and what is your flow like?

blacknight
08-26-2005, 11:30 PM
sure thing oleg i`l do.

frogspasm
08-27-2005, 05:56 PM
Has anyone seen anything new from Juan?

http://www.geocities.com/tony1001es/

He had a really cool tearing/fracture simulation thing going:
http://www.geocities.com/tony1001es/images/fracture1.mov But I haven't heard of any new updates from him in a long time. Has anyone heard of any similar systems for Max?

~Mike D.
Ok, time to go get ready for Burnng Man!!!

OlegB
08-27-2005, 06:49 PM
[Rant mode On]

After dealing with several cases of PFTools:Box#1 working "improperly", I would like to note the following:

The demo version of Box#1 was created on the basis of release 1.0 of the commercial plug-in. Since then a bunch of issues were ironed out in the commercial release and new features were added - the current release is version 1.044. However, we did not update the demo version, and it is still 1.0. The demo version is designed to give an outline of the feature set in Box#1, and nothing more. It has some hidden safeguards that prevent using it in real production. The limitations of the demo version are mentioned during the installation but nowadays nobody pays attention to read_me and the license agreement, right? :)

[Rant mode Off]

Thanks,
Oleg B.

OlegB
08-27-2005, 06:52 PM
[Happy mode On]

The Particle Flow Discussion topic is now longer than the Mental Ray Shader :)

[Happy mode Off]

Thanks,
Oleg B.

avolution
08-29-2005, 01:03 PM
I remember playing with the demo for a few minutes, deleting (uninstalling ) it, and
said to my boss, gimme money for Box #1, and he did...very good investment,
in fact better than that legacy program known as 3ds max
[insane mode off}
[smirk mode on]


[Rant mode On]

After dealing with several cases of PFTools:Box#1 working "improperly", I would like to note the following:

The demo version of Box#1 was created on the basis of release 1.0 of the commercial plug-in. Since then a bunch of issues were ironed out in the commercial release and new features were added - the current release is version 1.044. However, we did not update the demo version, and it is still 1.0. The demo version is designed to give an outline of the feature set in Box#1, and nothing more. It has some hidden safeguards that prevent using it in real production. The limitations of the demo version are mentioned during the installation but nowadays nobody pays attention to read_me and the license agreement, right? :)

[Rant mode Off]

Thanks,
Oleg B.

blacknight
08-29-2005, 01:23 PM
:( sorry oleg ^^ i will make sure to start reading the readmes now days.. i`m working on getting a comercial version of the plugin for now ^^

Werewolf006
08-31-2005, 10:43 AM
Ok I'd hate to bring out an old topic but this problem is weird

I thought I blow a fuel tank I used Allan's Quick frag script and followed the tut but I ended up with a problem with the Position of the mesh Particles they seem to far from the position Just like they would if they all had the same Pivot what did I Miss?

http://www.geocities.com/werewolf006/Fracture_fail.gif

Neejoh
08-31-2005, 12:24 PM
Old topic? Not at all, still alive and kicking ;)

The positioning of the particle will be at the center of the pivot, so that's probably the problem you're having.

One way would be centering the pivots at every object, the other way would be using Bobo's script.
If I remember correctly Bobo had a cool script to do this kind of explosions on scriptspot.com
[..]

[edit]
Go ahead and take a look at this: http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__Chunks_Basics.htm

loran
08-31-2005, 12:28 PM
You forget the resetxform I think.Apply reset Xform on the chunks geometries.

Werewolf006
08-31-2005, 01:20 PM
Thanks loran you are right.

Weird though I can't understand why this step is neccessary I already centered each pivot to it's object.

Edit

Her's What I have so far need lots of work...

http://www.geocities.com/werewolf006/Fuel_Tank_xplode.avi

loran
08-31-2005, 01:23 PM
be stupid like me... just do it and that's works ;)

PsychoSilence
08-31-2005, 02:04 PM
hy Werewolf006,
have you tried the deconstructor plugin from angstraum.at ?

it is free and saved me some time often allready.

you can download it for free under this link:

http://plugins.angstraum.at/deconstructor/index.htm

hope to have helped you further

regards

psycho

loran
08-31-2005, 02:23 PM
to fragment your geometry you can also use the power bolean 's plug in with the powerfull power cutter.
watch the tutorial here.there is a shatted glass at the end.
http://www.npowersoftware.com/booleans/help30/PowerCutterQuickHelpTut.wmv

the demo works fine.

Werewolf006
08-31-2005, 02:55 PM
Thanks loran for everything, I searched before thru the thread and stumbled against your contribution in this issue it helped a lot (you were 1 year younger)

Thanks Psycho silence for help

there was a script in the scrip forum for that I think it's written by rivendale and called splitit it's for fracture with volume as opposed to thickness.

anyway here's the latest (again):

http://www.geocities.com/werewolf006/Fuel_Tank_xplode.avi

loran
08-31-2005, 03:13 PM
nice blast. You could use a force to bend chuncks at the beginning of the impact and then explode. This is what interesting with this method, to create many events in your explosion. You could leave the base of the tank on the floor too. and make the chunks bounce on the floor.

Werewolf006
09-01-2005, 01:31 PM
Thanks Loran for suggestions

Here's a much better setup. This is probably the most complex test I worked on Appart from any Pete Draper tuturial.

http://www.geocities.com/werewolf006/Fuel_2.avi

Obviously I need smaller Chunks. that would make it much more realistic.

loran
09-01-2005, 01:40 PM
yeah nice stuff :)
what looks strange is that chunks are all the similar size and touch the floor at the same time. you d better have very diferent sizes and some have to bounce or roll on the floor. add extra particles for little chunks, no matter they are not a real part of the tank. and again, leave a part of the structure , not evrythings must be blast off.
but , this is my idea, do what you want :)
try to find live references. always and always live reference in animation

Werewolf006
09-02-2005, 06:59 AM
Thanks for suggestions, do u or anyone know why I can't use the split selected in the Event that has the Birth script? I need to take some of the fragments to another event in order to stop them from being affected by the blast.... I even enabeled the useselected channel in the script but Pflow is refusing to split them...
ANd where can i find good ref images of oil tanks being attacked apart from an 80's cheesy movie.

PsychoSilence
09-02-2005, 09:08 AM
really nice werewolf!

if you hafe afterburn you should have an effect-fest :)

i hope i can post some production assemblys within the next days :( i was off for over a month because of an other production.

regards

psycho

avolution
09-02-2005, 02:01 PM
Thanks for suggestions, do u or anyone know why I can't use the split selected in the Event that has the Birth script? I need to take some of the fragments to another event in order to stop them from being affected by the blast.... I even enabeled the useselected channel in the script but Pflow is refusing to split them...
ANd where can i find good ref images of oil tanks being attacked apart from an 80's cheesy movie.

If you use the Group Selection and Split Group Test from Particle Tools Box #1, it will give
you oodles of control over which and what particles go where...otherwise (I haven't tried
this) you could play with the pcont.particleselected syntax in a script operator to select
the particles for you?????

galagast
09-02-2005, 06:02 PM
hmm... thats weird, i cant select particles when a birth script is present in the flow...

using a birth script probably requires one to also script particle selection... (just my hunch:))


ok, try this modified script.. im not sure if this would help, coz i based the script from the screenshot you provided in the previous threads:

on ChannelsUsed pCont do
(
pcont.useposition = true
pcont.useshape = true
-- remove the pcont.useAge channel, because it wasnt used...
pcont.useselected = true -- added the useSelected channel
)
on Init pCont do
(
global chunks = $frag* as array -- changed from $f'rag*' ... not much difference here
global numch = chunks.count
global index_arr = #(17, 18, 19, 23, 24, 13) -- added a new global variable, see below for explanation
)
on Proceed pCont do
(
t1 = pcont.getTimeStart() as float
t2 = pcont.getTimeEnd() as float
if ((t1 <= -1) and (t2 >= 0)) then -- changed a little something here...
(
pcont.addparticles numch
for i in 1 to numch do
(
pcont.particleIndex = i
pcont.particlePosition = chunks[i].pos
pcont.particleShape = chunks[i].mesh
)
-- added the line that would make the particles in selected state
for i in index_arr do (pcont.particleIndex = i; pcont.particleSelected = true)
)
)
on Release pCont do ()


Notice that I added a new global variable... index_arr, it contains an indeces array of selected chunks. To get those those values, you need to run the line global chunks = $frag* as array in order to make the chunks variable available... after that, select the actual mesh fragments or chunks that you want to appear selected in pflow, lastly run this script:

index_arr = for i in selection where (finditem chunks i != 0) collect (finditem chunks i)

What this does is it loops through your selected fragments, looks for its corresponding node from the chunks array and returns thier index.
you would get values like: #(17, 18, 19, 23, 24, 13)
copy it to your birth script global index_arr, then run the flow... and hopefully it would work with the Split Selected Op...

I changed the -1 part because i get extra particles out of nowhere... i cant seem to pinpoint where they're coming from...


hope this helps!

avolution
09-02-2005, 08:50 PM
Is this the Allan McKay version of the birthscript? Comparitive analysis of A McKay's Birth
Script compared to Bobo's birth script shows that the former generates twice as many
"chunks" as the latter. This could be the line of code you changed. I did this test between
these scripts some time ago, and choose to use Bobo's birth script as a template...



I changed the -1 part because i get extra particles out of nowhere... i cant seem to pinpoint where they're coming from...


hope this helps!

Werewolf006
09-03-2005, 07:58 AM
Thanks Galagast very impressive solution, I'll try it.

Most of the things you pointed out I already corrected it, the condition if t1<=0 and t2>=0
is true for both frames 0 & 1 apparently at frame 0 t1 is negative and @ 1 t1 is 0 so I made the condition t1 <0 the same as your t1<=-1 (almost, the number in float so by frame 0 the particles are 1 frame -1 tick old, I think)

@PsychoSilence thanks for that I wish I have AB even without AB it will be very hard to add shapes and material opperators to the system.

I also don't have box #1 tools (I have the demo, No render)

I need a Huge fireball that makes a mushroom cloud, so no one knows where I can find some ref images?

Neejoh
09-03-2005, 12:38 PM
I need a Huge fireball that makes a mushroom cloud, so no one knows where I can find some ref images?
Check out this (http://creative.gettyimages.com/source/Film/filmresultsmain.aspx?source=quickSearchFilm&txtSearch=mushroom+cloud&doRF=True&doRM=True&usePrefs=False) link, lots and lots of material @ gettyimages :)

PexElroy
09-05-2005, 09:29 PM
Really good work there Werewolf006, with your blast. It is really coming along great.

You may want to add a bit more unpredictable chaos to the blast. Most explosions have debris thrown every which way, because of the invisible shockwave. The shock or blast wave is what actually makes parts of an object or structure separate fast, and get thrown outwards, and then gravity kicks in (with drag) to have those fragments fall (if on Earth) and the weight and density of each of the fragments will be thrown, and fall at different rates, because of not only of the initial shockwave thrust, but all the mass and weight of each of the fragments -- plus the size of the blast, be it small for a room in a house or a mile wide.

Adding this chaos, with different streams of fragments flying every which way, with trails will give it a lot of chaos in explosions. Chaos is important, because even in the chaos of an explosion, there is remarkable order. Keep tweaking it till it looks like what you want. Also watch as many TV and movie war films and shows as you can. These types of shows have a lot of great reference to the anatomy of explosions and destruction kinetics, not just their smoke, fire, and wispy trails. I do not really think one can “over tweak” an explosion. The more 'correct' detail and unpredictability, the better it sells. Having a good eye on how real world explosions play out is key. The more reference you take in, the more you train your eye to note the small things, and the small things are what make phenomenon look truly real. You could even find an explosion you like, and then recreate it, try to match it as best you can, that is a great exercise in reverse engineering explosions. Keep it up! :)

jigu
09-06-2005, 07:30 AM
well guys is this possible with particles(pflow) and geometry?

well with this current pflow we can lock down the particles on the surface of geometry such a wavy plane or plane with noise modifier..so when geometry simulates as locked particles on geometry also follow its animation?

now think reverse:::

if i animate locked particles motion then geomtery simulates according to locked particles motion? so this way i can have control over the particles and thus over the geometry and i can simulate some complex geometry deformations easily...(i know i can;t animated locked particles over the geometry)..

but is there any script available for suck kind of job? or any plugin?

Werewolf006
09-06-2005, 08:11 AM
Thanks Neejoh for the Link very Nice Reference. Thats exactly what I was looking for

Thanks PexElroy For tips I havn't had much time to tweak it yet, I've been looking at The website Neejoh suggested trying to figure out a way to simulate a fireball.

@thejigu this is job for Allan He used it as an R&D in his website. (the falling car)
Did you search the thread he may have disscussed it.

galagast
09-06-2005, 07:36 PM
@thejigu, hi, i've made a tutorial last month, http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=342. I think its kinda similar to what you're after... the first thread in there is "Placing Particles to Mesh Vertices"... and the second one takes it a bit further, "Moving the Mesh Using Particles"... you might need to modify the code a bit to suit your needs... i hope it helps.. :)

amckay
09-07-2005, 10:56 AM
Sorry for the lack of updates guys, flew back from Canada to Australia in the middle of two projects and had to get on top of a billion things as soon as I landed. I've been trying to focus on setting up my own company the last few months in the background which has now kicked into full gear, so I've set up a small shop for doing visual effects remotely from Australia - so I've been out buying render nodes an getting everything set up, writing tools and working away on a a bucketload of things. I've switched my status from fulltime at Frantic to now freelancing with them, so I'm still working on stuff with them but more on a shot by shot basis. Meanwhile busy working on a couple of big music videos for sony as well as consulting for a bunch of different studios from DD through to Orphanage and a couple of other studios as well as some game cinematics and tv commercials. So needless to say things are a lil hectic.

I haven't officially launched off but it seems the works all suddenly poured in by itself so I haven't really had a chance to announce or pitch the whole thing to anyone. So things are booming along, but left very little time to really handle anything outside of work and getting settled again.

So anyway hopefully in a week things will go back to normal, or better than normal - the new DVD is finished and ready to be sent off for publishing, just trying to work out who to get to publish it at this stage, but I'll have some info soon on it, it's quite cool! Also anyone in Australia - I'll be on the max 8 tour showing off all things vfx in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane so hope to see everyone there!

Anyway sorry for the big rant, just figured I'd post something since I've been awal, so glad to see things are still going with this thread, lots of great talent posting here and inspiring everyone including myself, keep it up!

-Allan

tuomasj
09-07-2005, 12:25 PM
Wow, that is really cool! Good luck with your studio, mate! When should we be expecting really cool vfx on a feature film made by your studio? :) I hope everything goes well, rendernodes work ok and all other computer gear, backup server works 100% and takes the backups every night and all zillion things that involve running own company.

Sounds like you're pushing the limits of max on your dvd, can't wait to get it :)

--tuomas

jigu
09-07-2005, 12:44 PM
thanks galagast.........that's it what exactly i was thinking to have.

@allan :: ur new DVD is coming . sounds gr8. i wish it won;t be on turbosquid coz it costs a lot when shipping to my country.

Werewolf006
09-07-2005, 02:22 PM
Good for you Allan.

Did you figure out a name? if not do a competition (not in this thread Obviously)
The winner gets the DVDs for free :D
or a Mug with the Studio logo :P

Neejoh
09-07-2005, 08:50 PM
Good for you Allan.

Did you figure out a name? if not do a competition (not in this thread Obviously)
The winner gets the DVDs for free :D
or a Mug with the Studio logo :P
That's just a sneaky way to say: "I've got a cool idea for a name and would love to get a DVD for free" :D (j/k)

Anyway, that's good news Allan! Not only the DVD but also the stuff you're doing in AUS, I hope everything goes according to plan! Good luck with that.

wscates
09-07-2005, 11:58 PM
@ Allan- That's great news. I hope everything goes well for you.

Here's a couple of tests of a candle flame under different conditions.

Large Flame (http://www.thecellardoorexperiment.com/will/Candle_Bat_Lg_Flame.wmv)

Small Flame (http://www.thecellardoorexperiment.com/will/Candle_Bat_Sm_Flame.wmv)

Neejoh
09-08-2005, 08:11 AM
I like the small flame best!

So how'd you do it? Just a simple turbulance with a vortex or something? Or did you use AURA? It's looking pretty cool :)

PsychoSilence
09-08-2005, 10:28 AM
congrats wscates!

i did some similar flames just with procedurales once from a tutorial by xenomorphic.co.uk but what is the particles part with the flames? do you drive the movement by particle?

Regards

PsychoSilence

amckay
09-08-2005, 10:46 AM
cheers guys,

RE: name, I haven't officially launched anything yet but not too worried about name. Had been playing with catastrophic fx (well catastrophic, but cfx for short). the studios more just an outsource for studios to push their fx work through, my girlfriends' a bit sick of me always being on another continent so I figure now's as greater time as any. So right now I've got superman and other projects being pushed through the pipeline, but I have a feeling a majority of the workload will be game cinematics and music videos at this point in time, as well as vfx consulting. Talking with Blur, Orphanage, Frantic and other studios about this so see how it all works out, but things are going strong right now.

Future dvd's I'll change my distribution scheme since I'd like there to be as many resellers as possible so it's cheaper than everyone having to pay international shipping costs etc. For the time being this dvd will probably go through turbosquid, although there are a few rules I want to apply to it still to make it easier on the customer.

wscates cool candle! I like it! is that actually particles? I really like the falloff in the center of it. Great work!

jigu
09-08-2005, 01:34 PM
hey wscates :: ur big flame looks so cool.how u did with particles? did u use facing particles?
good job with particles.

@allan :: "Future dvd's I'll change my distribution scheme since I'd like there to be as many resellers as possible so it's cheaper than everyone having to pay international shipping costs etc. For the time being this dvd will probably go through turbosquid, although there are a few rules I want to apply to it still to make it easier on the customer."

Thanks man!! (i wish i could directly get from u. :) (no distributer between me and DVD)....hehe.)

wscates
09-08-2005, 05:39 PM
Thanks for the comments everyone. A pretty basci PFlow setup. The particles themselves are spheres, emmited from the wick, Material is an extremly transparent particle age map starting at blue then going to a light yellow. When the particles emitted from the wick collide with the wick again it goes to a new event with a new material, less transparent particle age map going from light yellow to darker orange. When I get some time I'll post some screen shots of the Flow and Materials.

sadghost
09-08-2005, 10:08 PM
HEY ALLAN .. that's great news about your company..I hope to see you on one of those behind the VFX Bonus disc or bonus material .. on the DVD movies..

But I hear alot of talk about TURBO SQUID.. those guys are based in NEW ORLEANS.. and got hit pretty hard by hurricane KATRINA.. DO YOU THINK THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO DISTRIBUTE DVD's ? I heard that NEW ORLEANS will be shut down for a few weeks maybe even months?

They posted a statement on there TURBO SQUID forum... :

"Just to let you all know.... Turbo Squid is (was???) based in New Orleans. New Orleans has been hit by a Cat 5 hurricane.
Our servers are not based in New Orleans, so most of TS's tech side is fine. We did loose our email server, but that has been replicated.
There are only a couple of employees that have not been accounted for, but most of us are relatively well. All our staff has been spread out to various parts of the country.

As a whole, we're doing fine. We have plenty of issues and are working to bring secondary services back online. Email and support issues will be dealt with when we can get our staff connected and working.
Rest assured, TS will not be going away. This is a huge inconvenience, but we will all be working very hard to recover.

Thanks for your patience"

Do you think that you might need to find another distributer... let us know as soon as you can ..thanks..

p.s : I hope that they find the rest of there workers ..I'ved had only good things to say about them...and there service!

amckay
09-09-2005, 02:02 AM
I emailed beau a few days ago and usually he's quite speedy at the replies, so I guess that explains why ;)

I like turbosquid, Beau goes out of his way for me quite frequently, and I'm surpised how well the advanced vfx dvd is still selling over a year later. There are a few gripes like in terms of pricing for shipping that I'd like to work out jsut to make it cheaper for some international people etc. although there's only so much that can be done.

I'll see what happens, in the next few days I'll try and put up some info on the dvd, got a few deadlines before Monday that have to be cleared up but will jump on it soon.

ArtiZta
09-09-2005, 11:20 AM
Hei.. nice to see you post again Allan, sounds like you're having much fun lately :) Hope everything goes well with your company. About your DVD i've been also waiting for it even saved already for it, I'm ready when it's released. So how was the work in Canada? did any new fx?... have you been tryin out any interesting beta releases.

Btw, remember my problem of making the splash thingy, I end up making with RealFlow, will post the small animation once I get a place to upload it, my webspace I've got earlier is dead now. But it worked fine and strange... it was much faster. Glu3d got really heavy & unstable. Will inform Jesus about it.

:curious: Now I got questions on How to aling particles to stay on a surface and to follow the angle of the surface. I've included some images. So what I want to do is to have particles aligned like the ilustrated red lines.

cheers

amckay
09-10-2005, 12:59 AM
I was just bitching to one of my ex blur buddies about ever since I left TO go to canada let alone come back I've fully neglected a lot of the beta/alphas that are going on. Been super busy. Canada was great, Winnipeg isn't the flashiest town but it was great to work with the Frantic Canada crew since I've always really just known the owners and the LA office.

About the surface alignment, it's a bit of a hack but bobo figured out a way to do it. Basically you're setting the vector angle for the orientation without the particles moving. If you add in a speed by surface and select your geometry to emit from, then set the speed value quite low, then have the rotation operator in next set to by speed so it aligns to the direction it's going, and then set up another speed operator set to 0. This will tell the particles to align without necessarily moving.

BloodHo
09-10-2005, 07:49 AM
Hi Allan, could you tell what kind of stuff is on that dvd or is it still secret? :)

Werewolf006
09-10-2005, 10:11 AM
index_arr[/font], it contains an indeces array of selected chunks. To get those those values, you need to run the line global chunks = $frag* as array in order to make the chunks variable available... after that, select the actual mesh fragments or chunks that you want to appear selected in pflow, lastly run this script:

index_arr = for i in selection where (finditem chunks i != 0) collect (finditem chunks i)

What this does is it loops through your selected fragments, looks for its corresponding node from the chunks array and returns thier index.
you would get values like: #(17, 18, 19, 23, 24, 13)
copy it to your birth script global index_arr, then run the flow... and hopefully it would work with the Split Selected Op...

I changed the -1 part because i get extra particles out of nowhere... i cant seem to pinpoint where they're coming from...


hope this helps!

Ok Galagast or anyone who has an idea.
Any one please knows how to force listener to return the entire array, instead of the first 20 items then goes ,....)
I can't find a way the above line is doing so.

PsychoSilence
09-10-2005, 12:41 PM
http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/tunnel-inferno.jpg

and as a wmv-sequence: http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/tunnel-inferno.wmv

rendered with scanline
ambient lighting done with 5 omnis (0,1 intensiy with bright yellow color)
camera motion blur with 12 samples, camera wiggle done with noise animation
1minute of post production in AFX(no plugins use!):grain, glow, hue/saturation, brightness/contrast, letter box


thanks go out to Allen who made his great PF DVDs

here´s the PF Tree:
http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/PF-tree.jpg

Neejoh
09-10-2005, 04:10 PM
Allan's DVD must have helped a lot, 'cause this is one cool animation! :)

But shouldn't the debrie be pushed by the shockwave in front of an explotion? Now they're swallowed by the fireball.
I could be completely wrong, but my guess would be that some parts should fly by the camera faster... Just my 2 cents :P

All in all it looks AWESOME!

PsychoSilence
09-10-2005, 04:30 PM
hy Neejoh,

thanks for your comment and critique. much apprechiate that :)

well, for the gravity there is to say, that the tunnel is a tube actually. the fireball goes from the ground into the air. not from one horizontal direction to another. the debrils and stuff get pushed by three forces (two winds, one vortex). after they reached a certain high a gravity drags them down a little actually. the gravity acts on the event called "trümmerteile". i used a wind and gravity for the efect as you can see in the PF Tree (Gravity01 +1).

PexElroy
09-10-2005, 10:37 PM
I wanted to post and ask if any one knew about training DVDs or any videos that would help me learn to create reasonable Particle Flow fire, that would also transition into smoke. Like how the new fluid simulators can handle it, but I want to use PFlow to make fire, and have that fire properly transform over time into bellowing smoke, and having both being relatively realistic shaded too. I have seen the particle fire Allan did on his website, but it does not include smoke.



PsychoSilence: very nice fiery tunnel effect too, I like it.

PsychoSilence
09-10-2005, 10:42 PM
those are great: http://cg-academy.com/pages/topic_plugins/dvds_afterburnmasters_set/dvds_afterburnmasters_set.htm

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/236836

DeKo-LT
09-10-2005, 11:53 PM
Hey PsychoSilence, not bad test :)
Try to animate camera, just rotate it a little bit.
Anyway check Pete Draper site www.xenomorphic.co.uk (http://www.xenomorphic.co.uk), his has create similar tunnel explosion :beer:.

PexElroy
09-11-2005, 12:08 AM
PsychoSilence - thanks, I actually have all 4 of the DVDs, and they are great yes, and they cover a great deal, but they do not cover how to create realistic particle flow fire that transitions into smoke, as a fully functional PFlow system. Thanks. The type of flames I am after are similar to what a fluid Fire and Smoke simulations look like, but without the vortex mathematics or simulation time, and using PFlow.

I feel the fire could be particles in PFlow, and the smoke could be particles with Afterburn shading, but it is more a question of how to get it setup and shading a good PFlow system that yields realistic tendril flame anatomy.

DeKo-LT
09-11-2005, 12:20 AM
PexElroy,
Tendril flame like this? :) :
http://deko.cgtalk.lt/CampFire.JPG
This created with Vol.Select and Noise modifier apply on BLOBMESH(and blobmesh of course is on a PFlow) :)

PsychoSilence
09-11-2005, 11:22 AM
PsychoSilence - thanks, I actually have all 4 of the DVDs, and they are great yes, and they cover a great deal, but they do not cover how to create realistic particle flow fire that transitions into smoke, as a fully functional PFlow system. Thanks. The type of flames I am after are similar to what a fluid Fire and Smoke simulations look like, but without the vortex mathematics or simulation time, and using PFlow.

I feel the fire could be particles in PFlow, and the smoke could be particles with Afterburn shading, but it is more a question of how to get it setup and shading a good PFlow system that yields realistic tendril flame anatomy.

have you tried to combine AB smoke and PF fire in post? i often do masking and compositing in post production. give it a try ;)

amckay
09-13-2005, 05:00 AM
I'm kind of suprised how many people have tried to remake that seconds to spare fireball rising up that I made back in '02... my one's a mixture of afterburn and live action explosion to really get it to look cool. Psychosilence - looks cool mate great work. I see you used wind to push it up? The reason you get a kind of lagged push is that wind needs to initially build up the particles force, it isn't instant, so your particles tend to start out slow and speed up. If you want a constant velocity you're better off using a speed operator or else putting in a pbomb, as a pbomb even for just one frame will give it a perfect infinite push.

Bloodho I'll give you a quick description in a day or so? I was hoping to put together a small trailer for it but I've been flat out - doing a lord of the rings style crowd simulation tv commercial right now on top of some game cinematics, ack.

pixelroy the fire I did on my site is pretty damn basic, it's more of just a tutorial version than anything, with that method you can do some cool fire it's just a matter of tweaking the settings a bit, frantic films has used my tuts for production and made some cool fire effects etc. but again the one on my site is really tutorial quality.

ArtiZta
09-13-2005, 05:55 AM
About the surface alignment, it's a bit of a hack but bobo figured out a way to do it. Basically you're setting the vector angle for the orientation without the particles moving. If you add in a speed by surface and select your geometry to emit from, then set the speed value quite low, then have the rotation operator in next set to by speed so it aligns to the direction it's going, and then set up another speed operator set to 0. This will tell the particles to align without necessarily moving.

Thanks Allan, it works great. Never thought it could be that tircky but simple... :) thanks again.

Btw, about your fire tutorial using pflow, I find it really slow in rendering... is there any work around it or that's the risk if not having any fire/flame plugins or footages? :)

amckay
09-13-2005, 06:59 AM
I guess go into your render settings and turn off super sampling or antialiasing and hope motion blur covers it up. Opacity maps layered ontop of eachother can be dead slow, which is why the octane shader in afterburn is so great to use.

On my new DVD there's a quick example of how to make fire that's faster to render than real time, but uses some post colour grading to make it look like better fire. But ideally yes you're likely to run into slow render times with the method in the tut, although not as slow as some other techniques.

galagast
09-13-2005, 07:45 AM
Werewolf006: you can output it like this:
(be sure to collect index_arr first)

for i in index_arr do format "%, " i

well, after that, you need to manually place parentheses and everything so that it would be read as an array.
An array's format is something like these:
#("1", "2", "3", "4", "5")
#(1,2,3,4,5)
#(one,two,three,four,five)

or you could try this code so that you won't need to manually add parenthesis and all

(format "#("; for i in 1 to index_arr.count-1 do format "%, " index_arr[i]; format "%)\n" index_arr[index_arr.count])

the code is made up if 3 lines, all separated by ";"
1. format "#("
2. for i in 1 to index_arr.count-1 do format "%, " index_arr[i]
3. format "%)\n" index_arr[index_arr.count]

here are thier corresponding outputs:
1. #(
2. N, N, N, N, N, N, ...etc where N is the number it got from index_arr
3. )

you could read up on what the "format" function can do, it still has other tricks under its sleeve.

hope this helps:)


...frantic films has used my tuts for production and made some cool fire effects etc...

waw, i could only imagine what those would have looked like, would it be possible if we could see some of those flames? nowadays, in movies, im always having doubts as to what method artists used to make flames... like "is that cg or is it real?"... "well if its CG, i wonder how they did it." :thumbsup:

PexElroy
09-13-2005, 10:26 AM
Thanks Allan and DeKoW. Your input is welcome. Your fire is very cool DeKoW, does it animate?

I seek a Particle Flow method for creating fire tendrils that also expels realistic wispy and puffy smoke (without Afterburn). The best way I think (though I maybe wrong) is with fluid simulators. Have not seen one yet done with PFlow that is film quality caliber and moves properly with dynamic collision detection. True, 3D model approaches might be a good solution for some fire, and what a shot may call for, but it does not yet have the quality a feature film -- unless the film was already implementing a stylized look to phenomena.

There are a few beta fluid simulators and plug-ins in development (not Maya's great Fluid Effects), however, their interfaces are clunky, tough to previz results, have memory limitations, and remain rather technically driven. Nonetheless, fluid generated fire and smoke are still the best illusions we have today, at unfortunately the cost of time and troubleshooting.

Afterburn has great use no doubt, but for realistic animated fire, Afterburn has limitations in creating such photorealistic fire, its motion, and its volumetric puffs are best used in blasts or various stages of fiery or gaseous anomalies. Afterburn does not handle the complex dance that a fire fluid simulator can offer.

Do not see a solution yet for PFlow fire and smoke. But, with a lot of work and know-how, PFlow could do a lot, but a particle system’s motion is the first challenge, then air turbulence, dynamics, and fire-to-smoke transitional shading. If some day, PFlow had a fluid mathematics operator, it could create a good particle system that may look (and animate) like real fire.

Examples of fire with smoke I am after
(by Ron Fedkiw, Duc Nguyen and Henrik Jensen):
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~fedkiw/animations/nonflammable.avi
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~fedkiw/animations/campfire.avi

Neejoh
09-13-2005, 02:51 PM
Thanks Allan and DeKoW. Your input is welcome. Your fire is very cool DeKoW, does it animate?

[..]

Examples of fire with smoke I am after
(by Ron Fedkiw, Duc Nguyen and Henrik Jensen):
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~fedkiw/animations/nonflammable.avi
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~fedkiw/animations/campfire.avi
Those look a lot like AURA, but I guess you wanna do it in Pflow Itself?
My guess is you need 3 births, one for the fire, one for the transition and one for the smoke? What did you try already?

PsychoSilence
09-14-2005, 03:56 PM
Here´s an update of my "tunnel inferno": i added plates that get ripped off from the wall by the force of the fire/explosion and the camera spins about 90° CCW and "dives" into the fire...

http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/tunnel-inferno.jpg

and as a wmv-sequence: http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/tunnel-inferno2.wmv (http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/tunnel-inferno.wmv)

as last time:

rendered with scanline
ambient lighting done with 5 omnis (0,1 intensiy with bright yellow color)
camera motion blur with 12 samples, camera wiggle done with noise animation
1minute of post production in AFX(no plugins use!):grain, glow, hue/saturation, brightness/contrast, letter box

hope you still like it and have tips tpo improve.

Regards

Psycho

Cryptite
09-14-2005, 05:43 PM
Hey guys, just thought i'd shamlessly plug myself. I've been doing a massive space battle scene fx test over at theforce.net that, aside from manual capital ship animation, is completely fx-driven by pflow. Here are a few screens (new and old) and an old animation I did using it. Bottom picture is the pflow setup i'm working with. Yes; it's ungodly slow. Fortunately, I just broke up the scene into another file and now I can get rid of the ships/pflow things no longer in camera-view...

Sorry for the image count.
http://cryptite.f2o.org/images/EP3battle.jpg
http://cryptite.f2o.org/Ep3/test9.jpg
http://cryptite.f2o.org/Ep3/muzzleflash.jpg
http://cryptite.f2o.org/Ep3/bccfscreen6.jpg

Here's the animation of an old version of about a month ago. I'm about to put out another animation within the next few weeks including more ships blowing up etc (It's really complicated...

http://cryptite.f2o.org/Ep3/Spacebattletest3.mov

And here's the PFlow setup :(

http://cryptite.f2o.org/Ep3/flowscreen3.jpg (It's too big to really be put in the forum; thus the link.)

PexElroy
09-14-2005, 06:00 PM
Neejoh > Hi, and yeah those are a fluid based flame, though Ron did not use AURA, but AURA and Maya Fluid Effects can do these types of flames. I think Ron used some code of his own to do that fire - amazing work. Your idea of 3 systems is a good idea. I have not done much yet with PFlow in creating realistic moving fire, but I am still messing around to see what is possible, if anything yet.

Cryptite > Really nice work, I like what you have done here a lot and the FX work too.

Daniel-B
09-15-2005, 08:14 AM
Very impressive work my friend, Cryptite, very impressive.

loran
09-15-2005, 10:03 AM
PexElroy, here is my attempt to create believable flames using PF:

http://forumel.free.fr/flamme/PF-Flamme10.mov
http://forumel.free.fr/flamme/PF-Flamme11.mov
http://forumel.free.fr/flamme/PF-Flamme9.mov
http://forumel.free.fr/PF/FIRESTARTER-comp.mov

I can share my technics if you are interested in

monkeydonut
09-15-2005, 10:36 AM
Loran, that's cool. Does that last example use the vertex renderer plugin/hack that was posted a while back - how many particles?

Also, Cryptite, loving that shot, keep up the good work and post newer renders! :)

jigu
09-15-2005, 10:54 AM
cryptite :: good job with pflow driven spaceship!!

loran :: nice tests!! i guess u used facing particles(with particle age maps) to make flames.

nice job!!

canwood58
09-15-2005, 02:51 PM
:scream: Finally got through every one of the 178 -i think pages! its taken a week in between work to do -my eyes wont stop twitching and i have a constant headache, but it was worth it, have learnt loads from this thread, should make it into a book. But one bad thing is that ive just been given another animation sequence along the lines of monty python style 2d in 3d / franz ferdinand music video and have just remembered there was a post at some point with a test of a sort of two tone effect which would be ideal for this but i cant remember any words in the post and cant find it with a search, ive had a brief look to no avail and my other eye which still works isnt looking forward to another 178page search so if some one can remember where the post was or some words that might find it on a search i'd be bloody grateful!

Also Cheers to anyone who contributed to this amazing thread -especially Allan Mckay!

Marc Hutchings :thumbsup:

PsychoSilence
09-15-2005, 02:53 PM
hy loran,

your flames are unbelivebly nice! would you share an assembly file or some settings? i playing around with flames myself right now. just curious about how others work it around.

PexElroy
09-16-2005, 08:08 AM
loran > thank you for sharing those. Can you share your .max file or flow, or even a public version is welcome. But your .max would help us see how you did the shading too. I can then take your flames and help us get some smoke to come off it too, like say if it was a car or a rubber tire on fire, there would be thin-to-thick bellowing black smoke going up, based on the material that is of course burning and its chemical make-up. This fire would also work good for electronics on fire or aerial dogfight-type explosions and fiery debris. Any shared material is welcome, and you can share it here on the forum or just eMail me (if you prefer; pexelroy@areagrey.com).

I am also dabbling a lot with PFlow and Maya 7 Fluid systems for dynamic and non-dynamic 2D & 3D visual effects.

canwood58
09-16-2005, 08:32 AM
from what i can see loran hasnt used any special material or anything -i done a very similar fire at work -just using wind with turbulance,drag and a gravity locked above it to pull it in a little then render from max with just all red particles but in high number -i used 500 000. The key is the work in post with after effects -there is a tutorial for combustion on this technique somewhere, im my case i just used the trapcode shine plugin with no ray length and raised the intensity.


here's a quick test with this technique

DeKo-LT
09-16-2005, 12:18 PM
trapcode shine.... :thumbsup:
It's best plugin for me. Sometime good solution is trapcode shine + compound blur(with invert).

loran
09-16-2005, 12:19 PM
thx people :)
you can find sources on my website in the tutorial section, Particle Flow Flame.


http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/

ArtiZta
09-16-2005, 01:11 PM
Great job loren, well finally my internet is working fine, this is my 7th try to post this hehehe..
btw, how long did it take to render that!?

Allan, here I am with another might be really simple question for you. :)
I'm trying to put the particle in straight/simetrical lines, how do I do that?... usually I use a plane with heaps of segments and then position object vertices but I get a lot of crossings and many vertices not filled. Please advice, I must be doing it wrong.

cheers

loran
09-16-2005, 01:20 PM
it s quite fast. the "torch" rendered directly in max is really fast. Just try the max files! it must be from 3ds max v5 or v6 I don't know, that 's old now.

Neejoh
09-16-2005, 02:14 PM
Great job loren, well finally my internet is working fine, this is my 7th try to post this hehehe..
btw, how long did it take to render that!?

Allan, here I am with another might be really simple question for you. :)
I'm trying to put the particle in straight/simetrical lines, how do I do that?... usually I use a plane with heaps of segments and then position object vertices but I get a lot of crossings and many vertices not filled. Please advice, I must be doing it wrong.

cheers
I guess you could just use a plane as emitter object, and under "location" use "selected edges". That shoud do the trick right?

PsychoSilence
09-16-2005, 04:24 PM
hy loran,

is there a possibility to render sequences with the vertexrenderer? in your video tutorial you only render stills.

regards

psycho

loran
09-16-2005, 04:51 PM
yes, there is another script to do that. drag the *.ms over your max viewport , a window appear .
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/tutorials/flame/sequence_vertex_render_UI2.ms

PsychoSilence
09-16-2005, 04:58 PM
thank you very much loran! i´ll give it a try. nice work you´ve got on your website.

regards

psycho

avolution
09-16-2005, 07:18 PM
I'm trying to put the particle in straight/simetrical lines, how do I do that?... usually I use a plane with heaps of segments and then position object vertices but I get a lot of crossings and many vertices not filled. Please advice, I must be doing it wrong.

cheers

Use the position Object + operator set to all vertexes:thumbsup:

plat4m6
09-16-2005, 07:53 PM
hi ppl
wondering if there's ne tips to make realistic lookn rain in pflow, ive got a general flow running, using bobo script for length by velocity, tried making the individual particles as fine as possible, but they keep looking like sticks falling from the sky rather than rain.

the secret may be in the way the boxes/cylinders are mapped?
ne advises?
thnx in adv.

PiXeL_MoNKeY
09-16-2005, 08:42 PM
plat4m6, have you checked out Allan McKay's Drip System Video (http://www.allanmckay.com/html/newtutorials.htm) or the CG Academy Practical Examples PFlow DVD (http://www.cg-academy.net/pages/topic_particles/dvds_pflowbasics5/dvds_pflowfundamentals5.htm)? Usually motion blurred Tetra's will work.

-Eric

depleteD
09-16-2005, 09:36 PM
Whad up,
How can I write a birth scrit where emmision starts by accessing if rbs have collided?

How would I go aobut doing this.

My problem is I to emit particles when a fractre occurs

I can store the collisions in reactor, but then I want to know how to grab that information in a script. It supplys the point in space and the frame humber and this thing called a tick. Which i think is the collision ID.

What ideally I would like to do
is emit large particles from every contact point with a velocity greater than X
emit dust particles from ever contact with a velocity greater than Y

-Andrew

ArtiZta
09-17-2005, 06:40 AM
Neejoh, avolution.. I've tried both of your suggestions before but I still get uneven particles, still have crossings between particles. I mean corrsing as there are 2 or more particle on the same possitiong, meanwhile there are still open spaces to put particles on. so I end up having gaps.

PexElroy
09-17-2005, 07:14 AM
loran, and everyone else, thanks for this fire result in PFlow. The next few days I will be messing with it a lot, and will try to also integrate some smoke with it -- if one wants to have smoke as an option. A great point to work off. Bravo!

charleyc
09-17-2005, 08:35 AM
Neejoh, avolution.. I've tried both of your suggestions before but I still get uneven particles, still have crossings between particles. I mean corrsing as there are 2 or more particle on the same possitiong, meanwhile there are still open spaces to put particles on. so I end up having gaps.

Select the number of verticies to know exactly how many particles you need, then using Position Object+ (as avolution mentioned), turn on Separation and you should be good.

Werewolf006
09-17-2005, 08:39 AM
Maybe I should have searched more but any body can tell me how to activate the vertex render? I copied the code to a new script and evaluated but nothing. the listener shoots back

26961
OK

Thanks in advance.

tuomasj
09-17-2005, 08:40 AM
I'm trying to put the particle in straight/simetrical lines, how do I do that?... usually I use a plane with heaps of segments and then position object vertices but I get a lot of crossings and many vertices not filled.

Here is some scripting that can solve your problems... but I'd use position object+ :)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=276903 (http://http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=276903)

--tuomas

canwood58
09-17-2005, 08:55 AM
@depleteD

I was doing something similar at work on friday with reactor collision but not using any scripts

-here's a quick mock up of the the sort of pflow I was using.

ArtiZta
09-17-2005, 04:39 PM
Select the number of verticies to know exactly how many particles you need, then using Position Object+ (as avolution mentioned), turn on Separation and you should be good.

I've been trying that too charleyc and still doesn't work. I end up having few particles on one vertex. I'm attaching a sample image.

The object has 2601 vertices. When I try this system with 2601 particles I get the result like in the image #1 meaning some particles are on the same vertex. So I make the particles to be 2676 then all the vertices are full like in the image #2. There I get the look I'm after, but in fact there are still few particles on the same vertex and that is what I want to fix/find the work around it.

There must be a way.. or a script. Btw, tuomasj, the forum link is not working.. do you have the .ms file? :)

Cheers

depleteD
09-17-2005, 04:51 PM
Aritza have u played with the seperation value
?
Yo know i had this same problem last year but i remember solveing it with position and a split operator. Lemme think about this

depleteD
09-17-2005, 04:58 PM
Ah canwood,
That is cleaver. I been out of the pflow loop for a while and didnt really think about that.

I would still like to drive pflow with the velocity of the collisions tho.
I coud probably play around and see what happens.

I will post the scene soon. heh

Thanks

-Andrew

charleyc
09-17-2005, 05:07 PM
I've been trying that too charleyc and still doesn't work. I end up having few particles on one vertex. I'm attaching a sample image.

The object has 2601 vertices. When I try this system with 2601 particles I get the result like in the image #1 meaning some particles are on the same vertex. So I make the particles to be 2676 then all the vertices are full like in the image #2. There I get the look I'm after, but in fact there are still few particles on the same vertex and that is what I want to fix/find the work around it.

There must be a way.. or a script. Btw, tuomasj, the forum link is not working.. do you have the .ms file? :)

Cheers

Have you downloaded Position Object + Op? With it you don'e even need Seperation to do this (I didn't realize, but it doesn't even give the option). You need to have the EXACT amount of particles to verts, and make sure they all birth on the same frame. Here is a scene.

canwood58
09-17-2005, 05:47 PM
@depleteD I look forward to your completed scene, keep us informed of any break throughs you make.

avolution
09-18-2005, 05:12 AM
That seems odd..if you use the Freebie Position Object + and set the number of
particles equal to the number of vertexes and set the position object + to all
vertexes, you will have exactly one particle per vertex...there simply is no other way!




I've been trying that too charleyc and still doesn't work. I end up having few particles on one vertex. I'm attaching a sample image.

The object has 2601 vertices. When I try this system with 2601 particles I get the result like in the image #1 meaning some particles are on the same vertex. So I make the particles to be 2676 then all the vertices are full like in the image #2. There I get the look I'm after, but in fact there are still few particles on the same vertex and that is what I want to fix/find the work around it.

There must be a way.. or a script. Btw, tuomasj, the forum link is not working.. do you have the .ms file? :)

Cheers

depleteD
09-18-2005, 06:32 AM
Awww man, I just saw what box 2 and 3 are gonna do.

Thats freaking insane, tears swelled up in my eyes,
that blood moon thing and now ageia physics with box 2 omfg. OMFG!

Does anyone know if you can grab any kind of data out of max with box 3 like animation key data and send out like madness styles. Like could you say when skin weight becomes 0, turn on particle rb simulation?

Man how is pflow not going to be such a powerhouse in the fx.
Omg
Omg
I can not handle this.

ArtiZta
09-18-2005, 08:26 AM
....douh, Now I understand.. you guys were talking about aditional freebee named "position object +" everytime I read that + "plus" I'm thinking of using the position object with other operands :banghead: :blush: :)

Thanks a lot guys, I just donwload it, applied it and it's working great now... :)

thanks again,
cheers

canwood58
09-18-2005, 10:32 AM
@depleteD

Where did you see the stuff about box 2 & 3 ???

Have you got a link, cant wait to see :thumbsup:

depleteD
09-18-2005, 05:37 PM
some lil preview over at www.orbaz.com

depleteD
09-19-2005, 01:40 AM
man u guys were talking about sticking 1 particle per verticy witht that pos+ op, man that tottaly doesnt work for me. I have to spawn like a tonage of particles till the verts are covered then select 1 particle on each vert then use a split selected test. then send out the rest for deletion. What is up with this. It took me a while to do that what i just typed and im pissed.

charleyc
09-19-2005, 03:22 AM
man u guys were talking about sticking 1 particle per verticy witht that pos+ op, man that tottaly doesnt work for me. I have to spawn like a tonage of particles till the verts are covered then select 1 particle on each vert then use a split selected test. then send out the rest for deletion. What is up with this. It took me a while to do that what i just typed and im pissed.

Download the scene I posted. There are exactly the same number of Particles as there are Verts and there is one on each vert. Are you sure you used the All Verticies setting?

ArtiZta
09-19-2005, 05:42 AM
depleteD, the operand worked fine with me. Didn't have to use anything else, no need for split or else.

I had an object with number of vertices same as the number of particles
make sure you diplay 100% of the particles, and that the birth is from 0 to 0.

depleteD
09-19-2005, 09:59 PM
DOH!
I only was diaplying 50 hahaha.
Omg, yea its been awhile for me and pflow.

Thanks guys.
-Andrew

Daniel-B
09-20-2005, 01:43 AM
Allan, forgive me if this has already been asked, but when will your new training DVD be avaliable for purchase?

depleteD
09-20-2005, 01:54 AM
new dvd?
the first one was pretty ownij

i want more maxscript

is there more maxscript in this new one

Neejoh
09-20-2005, 10:23 AM
new dvd?
the first one was pretty ownij

i want more maxscript

is there more maxscript in this new one
Yep there is :) At least, that's what he told us a while back.

@PixelMagic: Allan wanted Turbosquid to handle it, but they were hit by Katrina, so I guess it's not going as fast as everybody would want it to go....

nultse
09-20-2005, 12:32 PM
My first post here so hi everybody! :)

I´m teaching my self PFlow and made this simple training flow (http://ameba.lpt.fi/~kempilkk/pflow.max).
and the problem is that I don't understand why rest of the yellow particles ignores the Collision Spawn operator and go through the deflector.



Ps. sorry for my bad english.

Daniel-B
09-20-2005, 01:55 PM
Oh, ok. I can be patient.

avolution
09-20-2005, 04:37 PM
Well, you had the sampling set way too low, for starters
I turned on the pos object to subframe sampling,
as well as the render to quarter frame and display to
quarter frame...remember that if you have collisons
set to frame, some of the particles could already be past
the deflector when they get sampled...but at quarter
frame sample, they are detected and move to the
next event...

p.s. I could help as you have Max 6, just like me!



My first post here so hi everybody! :)

I´m teaching my self PFlow and made this simple training flow (http://ameba.lpt.fi/%7Ekempilkk/pflow.max).
and the problem is that I don't understand why rest of the yellow particles ignores the Collision Spawn operator and go through the deflector.



Ps. sorry for my bad english.

anim83d
09-21-2005, 08:09 PM
ok....going a little nuts...hopefully this is something basic overlooked....I am redirecting particles via "find target". I have a material frequency assigned to the global node which is assigning ids and using a multi-sub-object material. The problem is that the ids get reassigned whenever they go to a new event therefore changing materials but I want them to stay the same throughout. THis also happens with collisions (instead of targets) and I have tested static material with the same results.Any help would be much appreciated.

Justin Mitchell
Boing! LLC

avolution
09-21-2005, 08:19 PM
Unless you are spawning new particles along the way, the particle IDs should stay
constant all the wayu through..However, if you spawn new, the IDs change, and
so will the indexed material.




ok....going a little nuts...hopefully this is something basic overlooked....I am redirecting particles via "find target". I have a material frequency assigned to the global node which is assigning ids and using a multi-sub-object material. The problem is that the ids get reassigned whenever they go to a new event therefore changing materials but I want them to stay the same throughout. THis also happens with collisions (instead of targets) and I have tested static material with the same results.Any help would be much appreciated.

Justin Mitchell
Boing! LLC

charleyc
09-21-2005, 08:42 PM
ok....going a little nuts...hopefully this is something basic overlooked....I am redirecting particles via "find target". I have a material frequency assigned to the global node which is assigning ids and using a multi-sub-object material. The problem is that the ids get reassigned whenever they go to a new event therefore changing materials but I want them to stay the same throughout. THis also happens with collisions (instead of targets) and I have tested static material with the same results.Any help would be much appreciated.

Justin Mitchell
Boing! LLC

It works ok for me, make sure you have an Instance of the Material Operator in Each new Event.

amckay
09-24-2005, 02:28 AM
Sorry guys - been flat out. The DVD's ready to roll, of course Katrina has put things on hold, so a couple more weeks and Turbosquid will be back on top of things and I'll be able to pass it onto them.
When I get a chance I'll put together a reel of it, it's looking cool. Not sure if I mentioned or not? I've got a few case studies of fx shots I've worked on, a lot of heavy scripting - Some really really cool lava, lots of pflow tools stuff, as well as complex conditioned events, I also have a cool crowd sim of tanks that are rolling over terrain avoiding eachother but trying to navigate through a minefield, the first part of the tutorial is on how to build cool explosions, smoke and debris etc. and then you build this tank scene, and set up all the basic navigation mojo for the tanks to run through, and then you go back and plug your old explosion you previously built into the trigger event, and watch how your tanks explode in a really cool fashion that you conveyed earlier. As well as smart distribution systems for controlling and manipulating this stuff. Lots of other cool stuff on there, it isn't as jam packed as the advanced vfx dvd I did last year, but it still covers 8 or so hours? And the content is a lot more ambitious, I'm using plugins where necessary here, so betterwind, pflow tools, pwrapper, afterburn are all used here.

I have to fly to Sydney this week to wrap a project, but once that's done I'll be putting up some info on it, it'll make a great case study as I'm working with LLLAARRGGE crowd scenes that have to do some pretty intricate stuff. Oleg's had to build me a few new operators to get this stuff to work but it's looking great!

depleteD
09-24-2005, 02:35 AM
BRING IT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!
bout time i can give u money beeyatch,
i wish i could call up oleg, and be like, build me operators beeyatch. ha!

do u guys have any word on a good dynamics plugin that might be coming to max, i heard of aegia, i want easy to use tools like maya. Attach graity and done. Thats the way it should be.

Id like a program thats mayas dynamics and maxs pflow
god that would be amazing.

Tell me what you know mckay! http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

looking forward to your dvd homes

jigu
09-24-2005, 06:25 AM
Woooah man!! new DVD sounds gr8.

man i can;t wait for it.
but i know prize will kill me.(coz no enough money in my moneybank....spent a lot on ur DVD and pete;s book.)
Anyhow can i have a chance to win this DVD?:deal:

amckay
09-24-2005, 07:03 AM
What kind of dynamics? Reactors okay, I'd never use it if I could get away with it. If it's just standard rigids, simcloth works great! I've used it in several feature films and it's always stable. And Realflow dynamics are strong as well. Else wait for pflow tools box set 2's dynamics if you want to make everything a particle first :)

-Allan

plat4m6
09-24-2005, 08:19 AM
sounds like awesome stuff allan, lookn 4ward to the dvd release.
regarding fluid dynamics, is there any other way besides blobmesh to come out with nice rain fx? i was building on your drip system tutorial, but once the rain particle count goes past a certain limit (i set it to like 300 particles over 250 frames), render time goes thru the roof.. and i need atleast 20,000 rain particles over 600 frames to get a decent effect goin.

i mean.. as far as particle flow setup is concerned, its perfect.. but the problem is.. how 2 churn out equally good renders?, ive tried shape facing maps.. but it looks crap, tetra isnt much of a help either. I kinda tried makin my rain using fusion particle system.. but that's a diff story lol.

Werewolf006
09-24-2005, 08:35 AM
Allan I think the dynamics in box #2 (or 3) is Aegia Depleted is talking about. We can't wait to see how particles and dynamics are combined...

plat4m6 tetras scaled on their z axis via scale operator + image motion blur.

ArtiZta
09-24-2005, 11:18 AM
Wooow.. sounds great Allan, and I'm glad you're putting case studies. Can't wait to ge my hands on it. I'm ready to listen & learn already :)

Oleg, any news when Pflow tools box 2 will be out? Does box2 has a box1 in it?? I see there is box3 on the way. :)

plat4m6, you might want to use relax with your blobmesh to reduce the particle count. But I think pwrapper might do good for your rain fx. I had to used blobmesh not long ago coz we haven't bought glu3D at the time. Managed to do it though. I didn't really like it but the clients did :) Now all the quick blobmeshy things i'm using pwrapper. Strange discreet didn't buy it to make it standard plugin ;)

amckay
09-24-2005, 01:54 PM
hey: cut a new reel, I did one recently which personally I think sucks, and need a propper studio reel so made one that's a bit longer, this version is final although need to maybe interpolate some fields and recompress the video quality and the audio as it's a bit jerky at times.
www.allanmckay.com/cfx_reel.avi

amckay
09-24-2005, 01:57 PM
RE: Rain, well all the rain I did for in the rough short at blur was a mixture, I didn't make rain particles spawn on collision as it just gets far too computer intensive, so what I did is have a random splatting system that just splatters randomly everywhere and then I had a seperate system for rain, this sped things up tremendously.

Shape I just used stretched spheres or boxes, no biggy there.
Fusion particles can be useful for BG stuff to fill it up, I also used fog in my stuff for ITR, so it was rain coming down, mega motion blurred, and then interaction pass for all the rain splatters and then I had mist emitting off the ground to represent vapor.

jigu
09-24-2005, 03:12 PM
@Allan :: ur reel is amazing.how;s that reel opening text done? it looks like done in any compositing software or did u use 3d software?

music is just little noisy.

@plat4m6 :: well as for rain effect,,i made rain falling down over car and road for previous fxwars challange.well it was very basic and simple setup.but i tricked with motionblur effect on spherical particles.and i have used around 300000 particles and works very good for me.

here is the file can help u::: http://jigu.actkid.com/Rain_test.zip (4 MB becoz of some textures of cars)(note :: i have deleted cars from my scene.but u can have rain effect and set in the file.

here u can see output of that file(with cars) :: http://jigu.actkid.com/newfirst.mov (3.21 MB)(scene from my carcrash animation).

i hope my file can help u.

Steve Green
09-24-2005, 04:18 PM
Hi Allan,

Since I can't criticise your particles, I'll crit the encoding :)

I'd definitely try to smooth out the fields. There seems to be a bit of frame dropping going on because I imagine some of the source material is PAL and others are NTSC sourced.

If you're going to run the reel at 25fps, I'd take any NTSC source animations and check to see if they're 24fps (which they would be if they've been ripped from DVD) and speed them up to 25fps (since you've got your own sound it won't matter).

The material with the fields looks like it could have 3:2 pulldown on it which can be removed to give you 24fps non-interlaced, which you could then speed up to 25fps. Most compositing apps can do this as should the free virtualdub.

I just tried running that shot with the guy and the flashgrenade through vdub, but the deinterlacing is getting confused by the compression, it would work better on better source material with less compression.

I'd also try to correct aspect ratios, since there seems to be a lot of chopping and changing for no real reason, i.e. 16:9 material stretched to 4:3 and 16:9 material like ITR cropped to 4:3. It would probably look slicker if it was all 16:9 (scope clips are a bit of a problem, but I'd either crop them to 16:9 but then you might lose a bit of your work) or correct the aspect, but then you will have small letterboxing top and bottom. Some of the clips look a bit pixelly, I'd maybe try resizing them all in vdub using better filtering, they may soften some of the lower-res clips slightly but it will encode better.

You might get better compression using Windows Media Encoder, it seems to give better results than DiVX.

You can tell I'm putting off tidying up the house...

Cheers

Steve

feldy
09-24-2005, 05:15 PM
very nice allan this seems to be the third reel you put together this year. i liked the music from you wip you did first it had worked really good.

i have a question about mayas fluids ive been playing with them a little but its not like glue at all it seems to kinda be just for fire and things. also have you had a chance to use scanlines fliud system. im still waiting for frantic to release flood. that just looks killer.

Steve Green
09-24-2005, 07:12 PM
Hi,

this is only a tenuous relation to particles, but someone might found it useful. I was tinkering about with using cloth and separating out elements so they break apart when the sim is run, and it's not a bad solution for large-scale building destruction.

Of course you can add modifiers to give it depth (greeble and lattice in this quicky test) and particles etc. But it seems a lot quicker to setup than reactor/fracture on large buildings and you get some collision quickly.

http://www.stephendgreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/collapse.wmv

Following on from that, you can get some quite nice twisted metal effects by splitting edges along where you want the metal to tear, then using something like pbomb to blow a hole around selected verts. I haven't found a way to successfully stiffen the metal once it's blown apart, but you can use pointcache2 to stop the animation anywhere along the sim if you want.

It would be interesting to hear from Allan if he's tried this and how it turned out. I remember a tutorial using particles to deform a mesh and was wondering if a cloth sim was a viable alternative. If I could get the to hold the deformed shape without caching the mesh it would be a start...

Cheers

Steve

plat4m6
09-24-2005, 08:44 PM
hey allan awesome reel

thanks heaps for the advise on rain, and thanks heaps the_jigu, the motion blur makes it terrific, ur pflow setup is surprisingly simple too! lol the one i done was pretty much designed on how it was gonna look like in the viewport lol.

the spark fx are so cool, around 20 seconds into the reel! ver cool

thnx once again :)

depleteD
09-25-2005, 12:41 AM
wow i just checked out that flood,
wow i really hope they release that to the public soon, pflow integration o man, same with that amerato thing, i have a card that can use gelato but i dont have the technical skill to use gelato. I really waopuld like to get my hands on sorbetto aswell.

Man frantic is cool shit.

amckay
09-25-2005, 01:01 AM
Thanks Jigu, that isn't my logo, I've just been flat out finishing up 3 projects that are all due the same time, and now I've got to fly to sydney for some meetings so I slapped this together, so haven't had time to finish the official one.

I actually did this in less than 30 mins, it was originally smoke forming the letters etc.pretty simple, but then I messed with it a bit in the comp, but honestly it's not too hard. If you do my particle dispersion tut it follows along the same lines.

feldy - second, I cut one earlier just for the hell of cutting one since my old reels 3 years old, I hated it and didn't really need it. But now need a company reel, this isn't finished but close to and figured I'd throw it up.

Cheers steve, yeah the encoding here is absolute crap, as I said there are a few clips that stil need the fields fixed, and overall needs far better encoding. That's never one of my specialties :)

Feldy, flood may or may not ever come out commercially.. scanline stuff is cool, some of the scanline dudes who left recently bag the crap out of it though so not sure which to believe.

RE: Maya fluids, they're more raymarcher smoke based, fluid dynamics are better for particles, like liquid etc. best off using real flow or glu for that. it can do liquid just not very well, even alias admits that.

Steve Green
09-25-2005, 02:11 PM
Hi Allan,

yeah video standards are a bit of a minefield, I had to do a lot of show clips for games last year and I know how it can be tough juggling things to get it good enough quality and at a respectable file size. It gets worse if you're working with mixed video standards.

If I can help out at all, let me know.

cheers

Steve

depleteD
09-25-2005, 07:42 PM
THe thing i like about scanlines hydro simer is that they got it to use the quadro fx 4000 for hardware acceleration. havnet used it, id like to tho.

feldy
09-25-2005, 10:56 PM
Steve that was pretty bad ass little test man. i wasent expecting that. can you give some more info on how you did that.

Steve Green
09-25-2005, 11:09 PM
Hi,

Cheers, it's nothing too complex.

You'll need either Clothfx or the 7.5 cloth extension (simcloth might work as well, not sure how it handles separate elements)

All I did was create a box with a number of segments, collapsed it to an editable poly. Then selected sub-objects and detached them. I also selected some edges and split them.

Once it's set up with splits along the lines you want it to crumble, I just added the cloth modifier and set it up to collapse. You can optionally have self collision on.

Once it's collapsed, you can add modifiers to bulk it out. On that quick test I had greeble on one and lattice on another. You could then use Parray or Pflow to give some more bits of debris.

hope that helps,

- Steve

depleteD
09-26-2005, 06:37 AM
man steve that is a freaking genius use of cloth fx
the only thing lacking is mass. its obvious there is not a big enough pile, but that could be easily remidied
man i am ****ing impressed

PsychoSilence
09-26-2005, 07:43 AM
hy all,


i just did the fracture tutorial by allan but got stuck at the birth script :(

would someone of you share it? i allready tried to find it on allan´s website but failed.


regards

anselm

Steve Green
09-26-2005, 08:28 AM
Thanks,

Yeah, I guess the easy way to do it would be to have a non-renderable collision object that piles up at the base.

One thing I've not managed to do successfully is finding settings for cloth to become pretty rigid.

It would be handy for something like this, since you could animate between property 1 and property 2. It would also be good for deforming twisted metal (exploding vehicles, etc) - just split along the edges, use a pbomb and you get a nice blasted hole in a tank or whatever.

At the moment I use pointcache2 to control the simulation, but unfortunately it means I have to run 2 separate sims, one for the main cloth element, and another for any which are detached fragments, otherwise they would bullet-time when I stopped the sim.

Cheers

Steve

plat4m6
09-26-2005, 10:28 AM
heya guyz
im kinda stuck with this thing, umm ive got a flow where particles go past a deflector and enter new 'find target event'.. problem is.. the transition is so uneven, is there a way to make the particles going from the first event to the second to continue with their initial speed/motion and naturally move to their find target position..? ive made the find target to 'ease in = 100%", but its not good enough.

charleyc
09-26-2005, 03:30 PM
man steve that is a freaking genius use of cloth fx
the only thing lacking is mass. its obvious there is not a big enough pile, but that could be easily remidied
man i am ****ing impressed

Actually collapsing buildings don't always leave a very large rubble pile (above ground anyway). Highrise buildings go deep into the ground and usualy have several layers of parking. The weight and momentum of the collapsing structure drives right into this and the piles are not as large as one might think. Check out http://www.implosionworld.com/

Steve Green
09-26-2005, 03:44 PM
Useful link that.

I suppose the other thing is there's usually going to be a huge dust cloud anyway that's going to mask the collapse anyway, I doubt you'd ever see much of where the top hits the bottom.

I suppose another thing to add would be a few sims of horizontal pieces for the floors to give it a bit more volume.

Cheers

Steve

feldy
09-26-2005, 06:13 PM
hey steve you wouldent mind posting that max file would ya i wouldent mind taking more of a look in detail of it.

Steve Green
09-26-2005, 07:38 PM
Hi,

I don't think I saved it to be honest

Here's a similar one one thrown together

http://www.stephendgreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/collapse.max

You'll need to run the sim, I erased it to keep the file size small.

Cheers

Steve

ace4016
09-26-2005, 07:48 PM
hy all,


i just did the fracture tutorial by allan but got stuck at the birth script :(

would someone of you share it? i allready tried to find it on allan´s website but failed.


regards

anselm

When Allan shows the script, pause the flash file and copy what you see into a birth script. That's how I did it:shrug: .

charleyc
09-26-2005, 07:55 PM
heya guyz
im kinda stuck with this thing, umm ive got a flow where particles go past a deflector and enter new 'find target event'.. problem is.. the transition is so uneven, is there a way to make the particles going from the first event to the second to continue with their initial speed/motion and naturally move to their find target position..? ive made the find target to 'ease in = 100%", but its not good enough.

Try setting the Collision Test to Continue and using an Age Test to break up when the collided particles enter the Find Target event.

amckay
09-27-2005, 08:20 AM
yeah hehe I'll put it up soon, gotten enough emails about it, been meaning too just keep getting side tracked.
But yeah pause the video - hell I did it once when I forgot a line or two of it and needed it for gopher broke

Werewolf006
09-27-2005, 09:10 AM
You Can also go to pages 174 & 175 of this thread.
notice that there is a small bug in the script, fixed from Bobo's script.
nothing "catastrophic" it just doubles the amount of particles.
:)

plat4m6
09-27-2005, 08:03 PM
thanks charley
i actually adjusted the acceleration limit and i think that was the problem, the particles kept reaching their target velocity too quickly.. i took a look at one of Allan's tuts '1.2 tests',

btw is there any sorta way where u can get after burn combustion to be applied to particle systems, to get effects like the on in amckay's vid.. where u got that green tornado kinda effect happening in his reed. coz i find that sphere n cylinder gizmos are too limited in a way?

thnx.

plat4m6
09-28-2005, 07:36 AM
hey guyz
another idea, regarding fracturing,
i was wondering if it was possible to bake blast code fractured objects from maya and import them into max?
i know its very posible to transfer maya poly's into max, using the Alias FBX converter, but the only issue is how 2 convert blastcode material to pure poly's or nurbs for them to be fed into max.. afterwhich you can apply reactor and particle flow magic to the fractures?
life would be billion times easier like that

PS: Jigu, i pulled off similar title effect to the one in Allan's in his cfx reel,
ive uploaded my particle and fusion flow incase u wanna take a look..
http://www.rahmahwear.com/firytext.zip
might wanna add another turbulent wind to make the text blow out from the bottom a little, and i guess play around with shader (particle age n stuff), for the post fx,if u dont hav fusion, its doable in afx.. a little blur, color corrector and glow.

canwood58
10-04-2005, 11:45 AM
Just wanna see if you guys can help with this, been given the task of creating a man forming from particles for a film, I have the pflow set up to blow in -form and then blow away again as they want, but how can i get the particles to take on the texture of the live footage person?

Any ideas would be appreciated, at the moment im planning on creating a rough 3d model of the person with the film footage texture on him, as the particles would probably look better forming in 3d rather than on a 2d plane with the texture but havent really tested it properly yet -just using a biped to stand in while i set it up, so if you can think of better ways to do this or any hints on getting textures would be good.

Cheers

Marc

SoLiTuDe
10-04-2005, 04:22 PM
i believe pftools box 1 has a good option for this called Mapping Object and birth texture

charleyc
10-04-2005, 04:28 PM
Yes, PFTools Box#1 has the best solution. You can also try this
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__inherit_UV.htm

loran
10-04-2005, 04:39 PM
if you don t ahave PF toolbox you can use the bobo script as in his tutorial:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__inherit_UV.htm

I think you d better deconstruct the man to particles and then reverse the animation when rendered. This might be much more easyer.
If I had to do that, I ll animate deflectors to bind particle from the script to wind turbulences forces.Ill reverse the render and animate a 2d mask in After effects to keep the video man the longer it could in the shot ( the particle man will never look perfect)

canwood58
10-04-2005, 10:24 PM
thanks for the replies guys, doing it in reverse was something i thought about but it has its troubles with what it needs to blend in with, so not so straight forward. But looks like i should just give the different ways a test and see which comes out best thanks for the ideas guys and if anyone thinks of any others im all ears

cheers :thumbsup:

Marc

avolution
10-05-2005, 04:19 PM
Couldn't you use a birth script for your particle man.
You copy the position to the vector channel and stor this
as a hit position.
You randomize the position, and use a find target by script vector.
And if you don't have Ptools #1 Mesher the pflow and acquire the
mapping from the birth script chunks.




thanks for the replies guys, doing it in reverse was something i thought about but it has its troubles with what it needs to blend in with, so not so straight forward. But looks like i should just give the different ways a test and see which comes out best thanks for the ideas guys and if anyone thinks of any others im all ears

cheers :thumbsup:

Marc

Daniel-B
10-08-2005, 12:42 AM
Hey guys. I've been playing around with particles tonight trying to get the really big lava fountains that appear in Episode III. I don't have the material quite like I want it yet, but I do like the particle column shape. Here it is...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/PixelMagic/lavafountainWIP01.jpg