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Neejoh
06-01-2005, 07:24 PM
Yeah baby yeah! I've made it! http://home.planet.nl/~veen3911/pix/GoT/cheer.gif
Like Allan said, he would like to read the whole thread but has no time for it. Well, I'm glad I had the time to check it all out! Learned a lot of it all. Too bad most of the uploaded files and links were down at the time of reading..., but hey, you can't have everything.

Do you guys have some tips about making shaders for the particles? Every now and then I make a PFlow system that I like myself (doesn't happen that much :P) but I just don't get along with Mr. Material Dialog :P I've checked a lot of vid tutes, but mostly they don't go in on the shaders. The tendril fire T-pot from Allan is one of them that do, and ofcource the vulcano on Adv. VFX..

One last quicky, what is the difference between static and dynamic material in PFlow? Can't you animate the static material?

avolution
06-01-2005, 07:46 PM
Material Static CAN be animated (such as animated gradient ramp, Video AVI etc)
However, particle age effects will not be honored; whilst Material Dynamic understands
the Delete by Particle Age, and Age Test Effects





One last quicky, what is the difference between static and dynamich material in PFlow? Can't you animate the static material?

Neejoh
06-01-2005, 09:25 PM
So, what's the use of the Material Static? The only thing I can come up with is the speed for rendering or something?

Dunno if you guys know these reference sites, or maybe got some more?
Getty Images (http://creative.gettyimages.com/source/Film/filmresultsmain.aspx?source=quickSearchFilm&txtSearch=explosion&doRF=True&doRM=True&usePrefs=False) (search option on the right for more!)
Frame Pool (http://www.framepool.com/video/stock_film_search/) (I believe this one is somewhere in this thread)
BBC Motion Gallery (http://bbcmotiongallery.com/customer/index.jsp)

Shots like this (http://creative.gettyimages.com/source/film/FilmPlayer.aspx?clipID=ev00480&brandID=2&Type=Clip&QT=1&width=720&height=604) one can be really useful :)


VV -- thnx for the info dudes -- VV

charleyc
06-01-2005, 09:27 PM
I would assume less information to process while computing the flow. On large flows with lots of particles, any bit helps.

avolution
06-01-2005, 09:45 PM
Beacause Material Static supports Material Sub-Object correctly, whilst
Material Dymnamic does not, in regards to setting this up in a multi-sub object
birth script.


So, what's the use of the Material Static? The only thing I can come up with is the speed for rendering or something?

PexElroy
06-01-2005, 10:25 PM
Hello, I have a question about PFlow and Afterburn. I have a link here to my 3ds max 7 file and use Afterburn 3.1 to do various 3D cloud development.
http://www.areagrey.com/other/pflow_ab_vertex.zip


For some strange reason, and I do not know why, Afterburn 3.1 may render my cloud structure with a completely different noise on random frames. It is as if the Afterburn noise snaps to another seed, for a frame, and then snaps back. But it may happen on frame 3 and then not again if re-rendered.

Can occur with the Raymarcher or the Octane shaders. I do not know how to avoid it.

frogspasm
06-01-2005, 10:58 PM
Not to judge, but it sounds like a software copy protection thing to me.
If you do have a legit copy, I would contact user support:

http://www.afterworks.com/MEMBERS/login.asp

~M

PexElroy
06-01-2005, 11:13 PM
Ok I will check that, thanks. Thought to ask if others have had the same problem.

PexElroy
06-02-2005, 11:30 PM
Those that have not read this, or are interested, here is a VFX article and some Episode III visual effects:

http://www.vfxworld.com/?sa=adv&code=319b255d&atype=articles&id=2508&page=1

jason-slab
06-03-2005, 08:18 AM
hey robert thx for the link, nice read


|jason

Neejoh
06-03-2005, 12:26 PM
Yeah read it a couple of days ago, love to read (dream about it, maybe??) this stuff!

Drake83
06-05-2005, 04:54 PM
Hello !

I'm currently using particle flow to try to imitate some magical dust particles. I applied materials, events and everything i wanted to do on it, but i still have a problem: i'd like the particles to glow... But i can't. With other max particles systems like SuperSpray, what i would do is to give a number to the G buffer (properties) and then add a lens effect with the ID properties, but it doesn't work with PF... Any solution?

Thx in advance for help.

SoLiTuDe
06-05-2005, 05:26 PM
in your pflow, right click the PF Source 1 (should be the top-most one) and go into properties there and then add your effects channel (g buffer) and it should work

Drake83
06-05-2005, 05:36 PM
Yes it works!! Thank you for your help Solitude, so much hours spent to solve a problem that you solve in one minute...

Thank you again :)

plat4m6
06-05-2005, 10:58 PM
hi guys

has any1 had trouble with Allan's PRB script? i tried using it in TP b4 i even tried it in Pflow it didnt work, when i tried runnign it in pflow.. i keep getting this error.. even with Allan's own scene file (i deleted his animation keys and tried to follow the tut... max cant seem to understand what 'particleposition' is, ive put a screenshot here below), thnx in advance
http://www.rahmahwear.com/amckayprb.jpg

Neejoh
06-06-2005, 11:56 AM
Well, the files are currently offline so I can't check them out... Maybe you can post the original script and .max here? I'll see what I can do without the tutorial.

loran
06-06-2005, 01:21 PM
PLATFORM6,
post your max file, I ll take a look

plat4m6
06-06-2005, 01:45 PM
heya guyz
ive attached the max file here

the script ive copied n pasted here for those who cant b stuffed openin the file :)

on ChannelsUsed pCont do

(

pcont.useposition = true

)

on Init pCont do

(



)

on Proceed pCont do

(

count = pCont.NumParticles()

Global PRB = $sphere* as array

if currenttime >= 0 then PRB.position = [0,0,0]

for i in 1 to count do

(

pCont.particleIndex = i

PRB[i].position = pcont.particleposition

)

)



on Release pCont do

(



)

loran
06-06-2005, 03:48 PM
plat4m6, your file crash max every time I try to open it (running 7.5). What do you want to do? break the center of the plane using PRB?

loran
06-06-2005, 05:20 PM
Plat4m6, try the bobo s script wich do the same:

on ChannelsUsed pCont do
(
pCont.useTM = true
pCont.useAge = true
)

on Init pCont do
(
global Spher_01 = $Sphere*
Spher_01.pos = [0,0,-100000]
)

on Proceed pCont do
(
partcount = pCont.NumParticles()
count = amin #(partcount,Spher_01.count)
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
Spher_01[i].transform = pCont.ParticleTM

)
)


on Release pCont do
(

)

here is your modified scne: the max file (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/prb.max)

plat4m6
06-06-2005, 10:05 PM
thanks heaps loran 4 that, ill take a look at the script now
and far out, ur right, its even crashing my scenes, i think it is because the max editor leaves it open and as soon as i open the file it keeps trying to parse that line which max has an issue with

PRB[i].position = pcont.particleposition

ill get bak 2 u on bobos script

charleyc
06-06-2005, 10:26 PM
plat4m6 - Your original script is not failing on pCont.particleposition, it is failing on PRB[i].position. This is because PRB is a variable assigned further up the stack holding any objects with the name Sphere* in it. If you do not have any objects in your scene (which the scene you posted did not) then this variable PRB = undefined and thus you cannot have a undefined.position. Also, the script expects a seperate Sphere object for each particle born. Add at least the same number of objects with the name Sphere... to your scene as particles (100 in the case of the scene you posted) and it should resolve itself.

plat4m6
06-06-2005, 10:43 PM
awesome, thanks heaps charley

the reason y i tried not to think of that as a possiblity was coz i heard allan say on the tut "this way u dont have to instance any geometry".. so i took it to mean that the script generated the geom.. but i reckon its better this way, u get to have more control over the particle shapes in the scene.

thnx once again! :thumbsup:

charleyc
06-06-2005, 10:47 PM
Glad I could help. One thing though... Since you mentioned creating objects with script....PFlow apparently does not like creating things on the fly through script (non-particle of course), like lights, geoemtry, helpers... Somewhere there is a warning about this in either the PFlow help or the sample script operator. Keep that in mind in case you decide to alter the scipts any.

amckay
06-07-2005, 03:47 AM
Hey guys - sorry been offline the last few weeks moving office.

If the PRB thing doesn't work you might want to check it's using a pcont.useposition = true channel up the top as well as TM and the rest. Or yeah use bobo's which is another way to do it. The actual tut is offline along with a few others, I'll look into what to do to make these more accessable as right now it seems to soak up apparently 500+ gb a month?

I'm just focussing on getting my new DVD out right now, once that's done and I get back from Canada I'll be a bit more on top of things.

Neejoh
06-07-2005, 01:05 PM
Do you have any idea where you'll be publishing it? When I ordered my own copy of your Adv. VFX DVD the shipping costs where as high as the DVD itself (to Europe). Ofcourse it was worth every penny, but still it's a big price. I hope you'll find something else, but I can imagine it's not the most fun to do to search for a "cheap" publisher.

Anyway, really don't wanna rush you, but do you got any info on when it's comin out and what will be on it? I've read a couple pages back that there will be a lot of scripting on it, so I can't wait. And could AB join the party?

I've asked around for some webspace, but the webserver at school is just an old P3 700MHz, so there's no way in h*ll he'll be taking all those requests ;)
If we've got 4 hosts, we could write a little script that changes the download location every week to another server? That way you'll theoretically generate 75% less traffic to each server.

PexElroy
06-07-2005, 10:46 PM
I think I speak for most here, in that your next training DVD Allan is highly anticipated, and insight to its contents and release date are long-awaited.

amckay
06-09-2005, 05:25 AM
Here's just a quick thrown together list, it'll contain more than this, but most of these are feature tutorials lasting over 2 hours each, they also delve heavily into compositing and scripting etc. This is a DVD I'm just putting together to get out by siggraph. It'll be released through turbosquid, but the first thing I'm going to do is ensure there's options for mailing, as I'm pretty apauled over shipping costs for dvd's....

creating large dirt explosions
- (as used in warhammer, call of duty etc).
- Building them to be used as a trigger to create dynamic effects.

creating basic AI - Tanks navigating through a mine field
uses explosions created in the explosion tutorial for when mines are triggered
from tanks.
- heavy use of scripting to control various event driven triggers for tanks to have inteligence, enough to navigate their best to avoid eachother and mines on the ground as they move over 3D terrain.
- To have conditions that if the tank drives over a mine it explodes, destroying other
mines and tanks in it's blast radius.

Creating realistic lava - lava pouring over a surface
- scripting particles over a surface
- using meta particles
- scripting lights attached to particles
- scripting texture coordinates for the lava to ooze accurately.

creating an iceberg collapsing
- attaching real geometry to particles, rather than scripted instances.
- creating secondary wakes, ripples, splashes and other effects all dynamically driven

Creating realistic fire
- a way to create good looking fire that renders in seconds

Creating dynamic effects
- barrels falling into water, dynamically bobbing and splashing and creating wakes and foam

--- being able to script particles to move exactly where you want and act exactly how you want
- particle morphing

SoLiTuDe
06-09-2005, 05:40 AM
*getting the plastic out now!...gonna paste it to my monitor to remind me! I'll pay 50 bucks in shipping if need be.. but I/we all appreciate that you are trying to do what you can to help out with the shipping costs. I understand that kind of price for like a box of dvd's... but one dvd doesn't make sense. :) Can't wait to see the dvd man! You gonna design the cover this time?? :D

amckay
06-09-2005, 02:10 PM
Haha, the turbosquid dvd was one of those things that I got bombarded with blade 3 and scooby 2 and so it went a little wrong, I got the content I wanted but no time to record it with the quality I wanted. And then I had it sitting there for 2-3 months not doing anything, so when I gave it to Turbosquid I said make it cool and release it... and I learnt a lot about the process from that. I was going to design the covers and other stuff although I'm again too busy with the current film I'm doing for Frantic Films... So I might just ask them not to make the images suck this time around ;)

Honestly, I was doing this DVD just because I was asked if I might be able to release something for siggy, and so I've got dozens of content and figured I could slap something together, although I'm really quite suprised and very happy with what I've come up with, as the content covered is really indepth, technical and fun. And looks bloody cool!

So I'm just editting it and cleaning it up now and then I'll fedex it over to Beau to start getting ready. I'll probably do some promo video showing bits of it etc. when it's ready to go.

Glad to see this threads still running!
Who's going to sig? I was going to go but I'm only going to be over there for 6 weeks so I'm probably going to be too pressured to hit LA right now by the looks of things. But I'll be back in town again soon for sure.

Neejoh
06-09-2005, 04:29 PM
Love to go, but it's gonna cost me around 2000$ just to get there ;) Since I'm a student trying hard to keep my head above the water I don't think that's gonna happen ;) Someday though...

loran
06-09-2005, 05:15 PM
Allan s fan club is back again. Anyone to create a web site devoted to allan? uhuhuhuh

frogspasm
06-09-2005, 06:04 PM
So, Allan, are you tired of coming to LA?
Are you really putting these training DVD's out so that you can put yourself out of a job, so that you don't have to come back here so much?

~Mike D.
Eagerly awaiting the new one :)

Daniel-B
06-10-2005, 04:29 AM
Allan, while you're covering the subject of lava, you should throw in a tutorial for creating those awesome lava geysers in Episode III.

Also, I didn't read the whole thread, but when will this DVD be avaliable?

ArtiZta
06-10-2005, 10:56 AM
Wooow Cool... can't wait.. sounds like it's going to be heavy learning this time, heaps of scripting hey ;) my card is aslo ready :)

I hope the interface is more flexible this time allan, and really appreciate you trying to do something with the shipping cost. Oh can you please tell them to pack your DVDs with stronger cover so it doesn't break ;)

Btw, can anyone help me figure out how to simulate a mercury movement using particle flow?
What I want to do is to make 2 or 3 mercury/silver balls move out leave the main ball and stay separate.

cheers

Steve Green
06-10-2005, 11:46 AM
I don't know if this is useful or a well-known trick.

I saw a guy on the Max webboard post a tip about using mesher/meshbomb with vertex weld, and I applied this to PArray with a plugin called f-edge which fakes a chamfered edge at render time.

This saves on the tedious mucking about with visibility tracks and can give you a nice growing crack as the bits become separated.

Create a Geosphere
Create a Parray
Use Object Fragments
Apply a spacewarp (e.g. displace)

Create a mesher object
Add a Vertex weld
Add a shell modifier

Optionally add a relax to take the edge off when it breaks up...

http://stephendgreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/parray_weld.wmv

Just a quick example to show the procedure...

Credit to Anssi Korpela for the original vertex weld tip.


Cheers

Steve

DoubleSupercool
06-10-2005, 03:20 PM
Good call on the mailing option Allan. As a fellow Australian and a student to boot it's fair to say that:

a) not many tutorial DVD's have official distributors in the region; and
2) it hurts the wallet to pay 50-75% of the cost of the DVD just to get the darn thing to my door!

Thankfully CG Academy does 25% for students, so I am going to sell some body organs that I have two of and buy the particle flow and Afterburn sets.

Anybody want to buy a spare nostril? I only need one . . .

Neejoh
06-10-2005, 04:13 PM
I don't know if this is useful or a well-known trick.

I saw a guy on the Max webboard post a tip about using mesher/meshbomb with vertex weld, and I applied this to PArray with a plugin called f-edge which fakes a chamfered edge at render time.

This saves on the tedious mucking about with visibility tracks and can give you a nice growing crack as the bits become separated.

Create a Geosphere
Create a Parray
Use Object Fragments
Apply a spacewarp (e.g. displace)

Create a mesher object
Add a Vertex weld
Add a shell modifier

Optionally add a relax to take the edge off when it breaks up...

http://stephendgreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/parray_weld.wmv

Just a quick example to show the procedure...

Credit to Anssi Korpela for the original vertex weld tip.


Cheers

Steve
That looks pretty cool! That's a cool trick, let's try it out when I've got some time for it (got my licence key back for AURA, so let's play with that first.. :P)

@frogspasm: I got the same case as you, just a normal DVD case you can buy in every DVD shop. Mine didn't have a scratch on it actually :P

frogspasm
06-10-2005, 04:59 PM
I'm surprised to hear of all the cracked cases for Allan's DVD.
Mine came in one of those regular black plastic cases that most commercial DVD's are sold.
I thought those were fairly indestructible.
Did they switch to cheaper cases at some point?

~Mike D.

ArtiZta
06-11-2005, 05:59 AM
That's cool trick Steve, now i can get rid off playing with visibility for those explosions to hide the cracks. Heve to try if it works with Allan's fracture script.

As for the cracked cases I'm glad my DVD was fine althought the case was cracked you can actually see the DVD in side :) lucky the anvelope was still sealed so all the pieces were inside ;) I might try the glue plugin for plastic hahaha..

feldy
06-11-2005, 06:44 PM
my dvd from turbo squid came nice i called them before they sent it and told them to send me something cool so they sent me a tatoo sticker and a turbo squid mouse pad. but my cga dvds was expensive but worth it. they only thing it dident like my dvd drive so i spent for ever on a mac trying to get the stuff off the discs and on to new ones.

Neejoh
06-12-2005, 02:43 PM
A while back there was a discussion about demoreals and stuff, and what you should be able to do when it comes to this profession. Reallife footage was very important, so I'm hoping for some good info/tips!

o Do you guys shoot all your own material, or are there websites that have some good editable shots for us to download?
o What are the most important aspacts to remember/write down when you shoot your own footage? Lighting, camera position, camera rotation, wind direction..... Any tips?
o What is the smartest move when it comes to camera matching in MAX? MAX itself has some good tutorials for this, but I can imagine you don't always have good tracking features in the real world. Someone told me Bajou3 is pretty good in camera matching, but that's a bit too expensive for me :+ Tips?
o After this, what's next? Just start building and hope for the best? :P

[edit]
Hmmz, maybe not really the right topic. It's written with the thought of building some reallife particle effect animations, so it kinda relates to this topic ;)

ArtiZta
06-12-2005, 07:14 PM
Hi all, I'm playing with blob mesh at the moment, I got it to run fine with pflow to simulate mercury looking blobs, but my bigest problem is how to make the blob mesh stay setady so it doesn't flicker while it's moving ...

I played with heavy coarseness, soft selections etc, stalled my machine a while, reduced it but still have the flickers.. I also applied relax modifier which softened the shape of the blob mesh nicely.. but it doesn't help with the flickers.

can anyone help please?...is there any way around it?.

thx.

plat4m6
06-13-2005, 02:03 AM
hey artizta.. i personally would use realflow instead of blob meshing... 6/10 times when i use blob mesh with heavy liquid scenes my max crashes whihc also reminds me.. is there neway of exporting pflow data 2 realflow so it can create the mesh 4 it??

KMAnStudios
06-13-2005, 02:13 AM
Glu will do the meshing for a Particle flow systems.

ArtiZta
06-13-2005, 06:38 AM
plat4m6: I usually use realflow, but in this case is a just simple floating mercury simulation where blobmesh is duing fine just that it has that flickers when the particle is separated from the rest for few frames. After that it stops flickering...
I'll see if i can post the sample of it later..

jason-slab
06-13-2005, 08:37 AM
i'd def use Glu3d's Pwrapper over blobmesh, it's way faster
|j

monkeydonut
06-14-2005, 10:43 AM
I can't get pwrapper to work with pflow... it crashes every single time I select the pflow particle system?

amckay
06-15-2005, 12:05 AM
email jesus pedrosa <jesped@3daliens.com> - let him know. My pwrapper works fine, although I don't think it's a public build.

I will say anyone who has access to pwrapper, use it! It kicks assssss.

slime
06-15-2005, 12:10 AM
Hear what Allan says. :)
Pwrapper is like twenty times faster than blobmesh. It already aved my life a couple times :)

amckay
06-15-2005, 12:11 AM
Neejoh back in the day when I was first getting into compositing and effects, I'd find even high res stills to work with and treat them like a locked off camera, animate bits and modify it as much as I could. So the first few jobs I ever landed in post production were based on me downloading images off the net and then going crazy with them.

I guess for filming you're best to look on some photography sites and read some books on photography, lighting and cinematography. Honestly I've got a pretty good collection of those kinds of books myself, and I'm only just now starting to have any hands on experience with a camera.

But just things like making sure the shots easy to track, is there going to be anything in the forground you need to remove or roto (trees for instance). Plan out what's actually happening, there's nothing worse than filming with the idea "there's nothing in front of me, I'll add it later... and work it all out then" - you only get one shot at filming, and you need to be able to visualize the effect as if it were right there in front of you.

gonemad
06-15-2005, 01:07 AM
Is there any place to download or purchase Pwrapper on it's own? I had the demo of Glu3D installed but I was also getting crashes when I'd try to use Pwrapper on regular max particles. I'd love to give it a try but I don't really need to do animated water simulations so I can't justify purchasing Glu3D just to play around with it.

ArtiZta
06-15-2005, 03:36 AM
While the subject is around glue3D, Ive tried the demo of it... pwraper works great, unfortunately for my current project demo can't help, so maybe there is no work around blobmesh :(



But away from the project Im working on.. I tried the interaction between glue3D and pflow, it just doesn't work all my particles disappear when I follow the tutorial... can anyone help? How it actually works, or post a scene with working pflow-glue3D interaction?


cheers

tuomasj
06-15-2005, 09:31 AM
Hola!

I've been doing some tests with birth script and particles in arrays. If you want to check it out: http://www.jomppanen.com/3d_rd.html

and max 7.5 scene: http://www.jomppanen.com/3drd/scenes/pflow_birth_and_scale.max

I wanted to test this with AB metaballs, but I could not transfer scale information in to AB. I used AB PFlow operator and turned on scale. In script the scale information was in pCont.particleScale and pCont.particleScaleXYZ but still it did not scale as normal shape did.

Anyone played with AB+scripted scale and knows what is wrong with this?

--tuomas

amckay
06-17-2005, 01:22 AM
Cool work tomas!!

oatz
06-17-2005, 04:24 PM
Hola!

I've been doing some tests with birth script and particles in arrays. If you want to check it out: http://www.jomppanen.com/3d_rd.html

and max 7.5 scene: http://www.jomppanen.com/3drd/scenes/pflow_birth_and_scale.max

I wanted to test this with AB metaballs, but I could not transfer scale information in to AB. I used AB PFlow operator and turned on scale. In script the scale information was in pCont.particleScale and pCont.particleScaleXYZ but still it did not scale as normal shape did.

Anyone played with AB+scripted scale and knows what is wrong with this?

--tuomas

That's a nice effect. It reminds me of a 3D color halftone.
Khye

blacknight
06-18-2005, 11:33 AM
heya guys. i have a little question. i been suing afterburm for not much time so i not sure i can do this. question is can i get a z depth of the volumetric effects afterburn does'..

i got the image fron the tornado part of the deconstructing the elements to do a tornado. i`n not using the same tornado i doing mine with afterburn. and doing some painting on the image couse i want it to be more scary. so i have some cars house peaces. streetlights and cow flying arround. and the post guy want the zdeph i can give him the z deph of the stuff flying arround but i dont get the z of the volume. is there a way to get that ? with AF

JHaywood
06-19-2005, 01:58 AM
and the post guy want the zdeph i can give him the z deph of the stuff flying arround but i dont get the z of the volume. is there a way to get that ? with AF

Can't you use the old, white texture/black fog trick?

Give the AF particles a completely white, fully self illuminated color, and add a black atmospheric fog to the scene. As the particles move back in the scene, the fog will cover them up, giving you the levels of grey you need for the Z buffer.

jlelievre
06-19-2005, 02:03 AM
Forgive me if I am missing something here... but couldn't you just use the 'Affect Z-Buffer' option in your AB settings?

JHaywood
06-19-2005, 03:54 AM
Playing around with deforming a mesh using pFlow. I use a birth script to add one particle per vert on the mesh, then a script operator to move the verts using the particles. Seems to work pretty good. The ball in the movie was animated using reactor. The only smoke and mirrors here is that the verts are being pushed down using a Speed and Stop Gradually operators, not actually being pushed down in a physically accurate way by the sphere. I'd like to work on this.

I also use a seperate mesh to reset the mesh deformed by pFlow when the timeslider goes to frame 0, otherwise pFlow would be deforming an already deformed mesh everytime you went to replay the animation. Plus, because the alternate mesh is a regular Plane object, you can adjust the "detail" in the plane being deformed by pFlow to get nicer looking results, at a calculation cost of course.

Movie:
pFlowDeformMesh_001.mov (http://jhaywood.com/ftp/pFlowDeformMesh_001.mov)

Max 7.1 Scene:
pFlowDeformMesh_001.zip (http://jhaywood.com/ftp/pFlowDeformMesh_001.zip)
You need the pFlow freebies for the Stop Gradually operator to work.

Steve Green
06-19-2005, 09:45 AM
I just tried Afteburn and it didn't seem to work with Render Elements Z-buffer, but it did write out one using an RPF file which had Z included.

- Steve

sadghost
06-20-2005, 06:00 AM
is it me or when I render a particle flow smoke effect.. the smoke shadows looks like square shadows instead of looking like dark black smoke shadows ? how do you ger rid of this ?

Cryptite
06-20-2005, 06:02 AM
If you're using facing particles (which are square shaped), then you'll be getting those kinds of shadows. How to fix it, other than use Afterburn, I'm not sure. Might try the different shadow maps. Area shadows and whatnot; but i dunno if that'll help...

sadghost
06-20-2005, 06:11 AM
thanks for your quick repply....it just seems to me that Allan mckay uses alot of those partices in his work.. so I was wondering if there whas a way that you could remove those shadows.. but I'll try what you said about shadow map ect... thanks again

ArtiZta
06-20-2005, 07:03 AM
Facing particles means you're using opacity. Standard shadow map light can not go through opacity, so you'll have to use ray traced shadow light. I'm not sure but i think area shadow ligts can also go through opacity objects. And of course, render time increases.

cheers.

Steve Green
06-20-2005, 08:37 AM
What you could try is to set up a non-rendering particle system which uses sphere's and increase the sample range on the light(s), that way you'll get the sphere's casting roughly correct shadows.

- Steve

sadghost
06-21-2005, 11:10 PM
ok. cool thanks guys ...I tried those techniques they work!!

RichardBlank
06-23-2005, 10:10 AM
Hi!
Is it possible to save the cache to a separate file?

Neejoh
06-23-2005, 03:34 PM
Hi!
Is it possible to save the cache to a separate file?
No, PFlow doesn't support that.. (At least not that I know of anyway).

DoubleSupercool
06-27-2005, 03:11 AM
Just checked through the archives and came up with a few answers, but looking at covering my bases. Unfortunately I am at work at the moment and don't have access to Max or the help files.

If I want to have sparks randomly birth, ala from a downed electrical line, can I assign a random controller onto the PFlow birth event in the curve editor? Then I can just adjust the curve to emit at random frames.

Does this sound about right?

Cheers

charleyc
06-27-2005, 04:24 AM
Yes, you can. For added control, add a Float List controller to the Rate, set the first controller to a Noise controller, and the second to a Beazer Float set to 0 and wire the weighting of the two controllers to a Slider or something to turn on and off the flow.

DoubleSupercool
06-27-2005, 05:07 AM
Nice one. It sounds very much like the "camera shake" tutorial where you wire a multiplier curve to the noise controller so you can step it "on" when an impact occurs and tail it "off" for the after shakes.

Cryptite
06-27-2005, 10:33 PM
Ok, Question time for Cryptite again. Involves more stuff regarding my space battle.

#1. How can one gain more fluid and better animations from the Find Target Operator? For example, throw two teams of ship particles at each other and, once they pass through each other, they'll come to a complete stop, perform an instant 180, and then speed up and chase again. Is there a way to get them to, say, have a speed minimum or something, where they will then curve around and chase that way?

#2. I've created 3 different death "modes" for the ships when they explode. I've tried using a Split Amount operator or 3 to get it to choose between the different modes with a 33% chance on each so they will all die between one of the 3 deathmodes. It's not working, so my question is how do you get it to randomize which spawn operator (beginning of death mode) to use upon collision?

That's all for now, I guess...

avolution
06-28-2005, 04:52 AM
As an added bonus, why not make the emission points random as well.
Using a Position Object, set the unique zones way high such as the following.

You have,say, 1000 particles birthed over 60 frames, you set the unique zones
to 10,000 for 10:1 oversampling for 3d space per particle.

Also, set speed to random 3d, and use noise floats to control the speed and
the variation.

Just a thought!


Yes, you can. For added control, add a Float List controller to the Rate, set the first controller to a Noise controller, and the second to a Beazer Float set to 0 and wire the weighting of the two controllers to a Slider or something to turn on and off the flow.

Looking at what you wrote about the wiring, wouldn't it be cool if the slider was
controlled by particle age!

charleyc
06-28-2005, 07:08 AM
Looking at what you wrote about the wiring, wouldn't it be cool if the slider was
controlled by particle age!

It would depend on how important the control of turning it on and off is.

DoubleSupercool
06-28-2005, 02:50 PM
Good point. As it will be random spark burst I don't think it is that important.

Here is another question . . . more of a musing. This small class project is "Build a bug/insect and have it interact with the environment". I have a large bug, it's chasing a car through downtown skyscrapers, snapping wires left right and centre (cue sparks). The car hits a light pole, the bug rears up and BANG, down comes a pincer. I am think of ways to do the pincer hit on the ground. I am working on some general dust/small rubble stuff for the impact of the bugs feet in general, but what would be a good way to have the pavement smash on a big impact?

My initial thought is: can you particle spawn slabs of cracked concrete sticking up, dripping little bits of rubble? Would this be over kill? Could I just have the slabs already there but invisible and make them visible when the hit occurs? The moment from "no impact > impact" is very quick. Of course, I want to have it so if I change the timing of the impact I don't have to keep going back and changing stuff.

I am going to sleep on it and try some stuff out in class tomorrow. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

ETA: I have something half decent figured out using some "fake slabs" which are spawned when the pincer comes down, they spread apart slightly and are randomly rotated to look a bit more jagged. Still, any ideas are always appreciated.

amckay
07-05-2005, 03:22 PM
hey guys, just arrived in canada, been offline lately. what's happening with the thread, still alive?

blacknight
07-05-2005, 03:43 PM
heya ppl been bussy a lot lately and havent been able to keep with the thread. soo here is a sample of some test i been doing lately. the background image is fron deconstructing the elememts thanks a lot peter for that image is very hard to come by image with that rez online. and the tornado still looks a little bit off. its just i`n still new with afterburn. but its getting better and i working on some building destruction to make it a bit better ^^

here (http://www.infused-reality.net/Comp/tornado.mov) is the link

Cryptite
07-05-2005, 05:26 PM
The engine/PFlow scripting part of my PFlow-Driven Space Battle is in full swing. I'm going crazy given that i'm trying to program all this rather complex stuff, and i've only just begun to truly learn maxscript. If you would be so kind as to back up a page and about 5 posts or so, I asked a couple questions that remain unanswered. I've been out at the orbaz forums alot getting help there.

Neejoh
07-05-2005, 05:55 PM
heya ppl been bussy a lot lately and havent been able to keep with the thread. soo here is a sample of some test i been doing lately. the background image is fron deconstructing the elememts thanks a lot peter for that image is very hard to come by image with that rez online. and the tornado still looks a little bit off. its just i`n still new with afterburn. but its getting better and i working on some building destruction to make it a bit better ^^

here (http://www.infused-reality.net/Comp/tornado.mov) is the link
Damn, that really looks amazing!

Really like the system you've build, and the AB is not bad at all! Maybe you could make it less "puffy", but it sure as hell looks awesome.
How did you make the background? Just a photo? Or is a a video/CG video?

PeteDraper
07-05-2005, 06:01 PM
blacknight - looking good :) I think the particles are a bit on the puffy side - they need to be a fair amount more wispy on the exterior of the tornado. A tornado's funnel is formed by changes in air pressure and moisture, which is why you can see them almost forming out of nothing... this gives a smoother texture than anything, until you take the dust and debris into consideration which discolours the funnel, causing additional turbulence and clouds.

I'd also suggest amending the scale of the vehicles (?) as they look about half the size as one of the houses at one point. You could also mock up a scene and camera map the backplate onto it to catch the additional illumination. Else, try to add illumination to reflections in windows, especially the conservatory in the foreground.

If you need any more ref photos, let me know :)

p

blacknight
07-05-2005, 10:19 PM
pete thanks a lot for the coments. i`n trying to get puffy look out of the render but. i havent manage to get there yet (i havent played much with AB much either). but yeah thats on my todo list too. i was thinking in camera mapping to for the reiluminating couse now its just a brighness control in post(it was all done in shake by a coworker and friend). i have to check your book too. i have only been able to see parts of it couse a friend of mine have it. i kinda low on the cash side(but i sure as hell get it as soon as i can couse its too damn good. good job there matte). yeah about the scale of the vehicles it was the lasted adition. :( i should be asheme of not correcting scale. but that is 5min of doing the scene plus 5 more mins of render. i will sure like to see more reference material if you can man. i want to build theese to put some more stuff on my site(tooo bad is currently down i`n cheking where is my last backup but the hosting guys delete all my data without passing it first to the new server and all the DB is lost :(). i`l post soon with the new version.

PeteDraper
07-05-2005, 11:45 PM
I don't have any tornado ref material to hand (was referring to the housing, which is at the back of our house), though try checking out the NOAA photo libary, where I sourced a fair few of the tornado images for the book - http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/p

JHaywood
07-06-2005, 02:50 AM
I had some fun with the last MaxScript challenge using pFlow to create footprints in sand as a character walks across. Check out a movie and download the Max 7 scene file here:

http://jhaywood.com/FXfootsteps.htm

I tried to comment the script operators enough so that you guys can tell what's going on. Let me know if anything isn't clear.

blacknight
07-06-2005, 09:25 AM
thx for the info pete, the ref material in that site is great and in great rez too. about the houses it would be cool to have some more ref material. that way it would be more easy to me to recreate the scenbe in 3d for camera mapping that way i would be able to recreate some destruction. and relight everything.

feldy
07-07-2005, 09:26 PM
hey Allan,



When are we going to see more from this dvd your working on?

avolution
07-07-2005, 09:33 PM
Anyway I could get to see the pflow setup and the script ops.
I have release 6, and your file is unreadable, untill I get R8!
thanks



I had some fun with the last MaxScript challenge using pFlow to create footprints in sand as a character walks across. Check out a movie and download the Max 7 scene file here:

http://jhaywood.com/FXfootsteps.htm

I tried to comment the script operators enough so that you guys can tell what's going on. Let me know if anything isn't clear.

JHaywood
07-07-2005, 10:15 PM
Anyway I could get to see the pflow setup and the script ops. I have release 6, and your file is unreadable, untill I get R8! thanks

Sure thing. Just run this script and it will create the scene for you. You have to manually connect the first event to the PF_Source node, though. For some reason it doesn't connect right when it's scripted. And this isn't the exact version that's on my site, but you get the idea. If you have any questions, just let me know.

-- start with a fresh scene
resetMaxFile #noPrompt
-- maximize the viewport
actionMan.executeAction 0 "50026"
-- turn off real time playback
realTimePlayback = false

-- create the template object, which is a plane with a noise modifier to make it bumpy
templateObj = plane length:150 width:50 pos:[0,85,0] lengthSegs:150 widthSegs:50
-- define the noise modifier
noiseMod = noiseModifier()
-- add it to the template object
addModifier templateObj noiseMod
-- change the settings of the noise modifier
noiseMod.strength = [0,0,1]
noiseMod.scale = 5
-- hide the template object because we don't need to see it
hide templateObj

-- make a new mesh object that will inherit it's mesh from the template object
deformObj = mesh pos:[0,85,0]
-- get the template object's mesh and replace the deform object's mesh with it
deformObj.mesh = templateObj.mesh
-- update the deform object
update deformObj

-- make a couple boxes to use as feet
b1 = box length:10 width:5 height:3 pos:[7,-20,-1]
b2 = box length:10 width:5 height:3 pos:[-7,0,-1]

-- make a couple deflector to act as the soles of the "feet"
d1 = deflector length:10 width:5 pos:b1.pos
d2 = deflector length:10 width:5 pos:b2.pos
-- link them to the boxes
d1.parent = b1
d2.parent = b2
-- hide them
hide d1
hide d2

-- animate the feet "walking" forward
for i = 10 to 100 by 20 do (with animate on (at time i (b1.pos += [0,40,0])))
for i = 20 to 100 by 20 do (with animate on (at time i (b1.pos = (at time (i - 10) b1.pos))))
for i = 5 to 100 by 20 do (with animate on (at time i (b1.pos += [0,0,10])))

with animate on (at time 10 (b2.pos = b2.pos))
for i = 20 to 100 by 20 do (with animate on (at time i (b2.pos += [0,40,0])))
for i = 30 to 100 by 20 do (with animate on (at time i (b2.pos = (at time (i - 10) b2.pos))))
for i = 15 to 100 by 20 do (with animate on (at time i (b2.pos += [0,0,10])))

-- define the text for the Birth Script operator
s1 = stringstream ""
format "on ChannelsUsed pCont do (\n" to:s1
format " pCont.usePosition = true\n" to:s1
format " )\n" to:s1
format "on Init pCont do (\n" to:s1
format " )\n" to:s1
format "on Proceed pCont do (\n" to:s1
format " t = pCont.getTimeStart() as float\n" to:s1
format " if t < 0 then (\n" to:s1
format " obj = $Object01\n" to:s1
format " -- revert the plane's geometry back to it's original state by copying the mesh from the template object\n" to:s1
format " obj.mesh = $Plane01.mesh\n" to:s1
format " -- get the position of each vert\n" to:s1
format " global bigArryOVertPositions = for i = 1 to getNumVerts obj collect getVert obj i\n" to:s1
format " -- get the number of verts in the plane\n" to:s1
format " n = getNumVerts obj\n" to:s1
format " -- create one particle per vert and place the particle at the vert's position\n" to:s1
format " -- also set the particle's age to zero\n" to:s1
format " for i = 1 to n do (\n" to:s1
format " pCont.addParticle()\n" to:s1
format " pCont.particleIndex = i\n" to:s1
format " pCont.particleAge = 0\n" to:s1
format " pCont.particlePosition = getVert obj i\n" to:s1
format " )\n" to:s1
format " )\n" to:s1
format " )\n" to:s1
format "on Release pCont do ()\n" to:s1
s1 = s1 as string

-- define the text for the "footsteps" Script Operator
s2 = stringstream ""
format "on ChannelsUsed pCont do (pCont.usePosition = true)\n" to:s2
format "on Init pCont do ()\n" to:s2
format "on Proceed pCont do (\n" to:s2
format " obj1 = $Deflector01\n" to:s2
format " obj2 = $Deflector02\n" to:s2
format " defMesh = $Object01\n" to:s2
format " n = pCont.NumParticles()\n" to:s2
format " vertArr = #{}\n" to:s2
format " vertArr2 = #{}\n" to:s2
format " if (obj1.pos.z < (at time (sliderTime - 1) obj1.pos.z)) or (obj2.pos.z < (at time (sliderTime - 1) obj2.pos.z)) then (\n" to:s2
format " for i in 1 to n do (\n" to:s2
format " pCont.particleIndex = i\n" to:s2
format " if pCont.isParticleNew i then (\n" to:s2
format " vertNum = pCont.particleID\n" to:s2
format " append vertArr vertNum\n" to:s2
format " ) -- end if pCont.isParticleNew\n" to:s2
format " ) -- end for i in 1 to n\n" to:s2
format " ) -- end obj position test\n" to:s2
format " for v in (vertArr as array) do (\n" to:s2
format " bigArryOVertPositions[v].z -= random .5 1\n" to:s2
format " )\n" to:s2
format " edgeArr = meshop.getEdgesUsingVert defMesh vertArr\n" to:s2
format " vertArr2 = (meshop.getVertsUsingEdge defMesh edgeArr)\n" to:s2
format " for j = 1 to 4 do (\n" to:s2
format " edgeArr2 = (meshop.getEdgesUsingVert defMesh vertArr2)\n" to:s2
format " vertArr2 = (meshop.getVertsUsingEdge defMesh edgeArr2)\n" to:s2
format " setVertSelection defMesh vertArr2\n" to:s2
format " for k in ((vertArr2 - vertArr) as array) do (\n" to:s2
format " bigArryOVertPositions[k].z += random .1 .2\n" to:s2
format " ) \n" to:s2
format " ) -- end for j = 1 to 10 \n" to:s2
format " -- apply new vert positions to mesh\n" to:s2
format " for j = 1 to bigArryOVertPositions.count do (\n" to:s2
format " setVert defMesh j bigArryOVertPositions[j]\n" to:s2
format " )\n" to:s2
format " update defMesh\n" to:s2
format " ) -- end on Proceed pCont\n" to:s2
format "on Release pCont do ()\n" to:s2
s2 = s2 as string

-- begin editing pFlow
particleFlow.beginEdit()
-- create new particle flow
newPF = PF_Source X_Coord:0 Y_Coord:0 isSelected:on Logo_Size:5 Emitter_Length:10 Emitter_Width:10 Emitter_Height:10 pos:templateObj.center
newPF.quantity_viewport = 100
newPF.particle_amount_limit = 10000000
-- add the Render and Dispaly operators to PF Source 01
newPF.appendAction (renderParticles())
newPF.appendAction (displayParticles type:1)
-- turn off display of particles and PF object
newPF.show_logo = off
newPF.show_emitter = off
newPF.baseObject.activateAction 2 0
-- hook Event 01 to PF Source 01
newPF.appendInitialActionList event01

-- create Event01
event01 = event()
-- add the Birth Script operator and add the script
event01.appendAction (Birth_Script Proceed_Script:s1)
-- add a collision test and change some settings
co = collision()
event01.appendAction co
co.Collision_Nodes = #(d1,d2)
co.Speed_Option = 1
-- get PF Source position in particle view window
newPF_X = newPF_Y = 0
newPF.getPViewLocation &newPF_X &newPF_Y
-- reposition Event 01
event01.setPViewLocation newPF_X (newPF_Y + 100)
-- create Event02
event02 = event()
event02.setPViewLocation newPF_X (newPF_Y + 200)
-- hook Event 02 to the collision test
co.setNextActionList event02 co
-- add the script operator that will deform the mesh using the particles
event02.appendAction (Script_Operator proceed_script:s2 name:"footsteps")

-- end pFlow edit
particleFlow.endEdit()

-- open the Particle View window
particleFlow.openParticleView()

Neejoh
07-08-2005, 04:10 PM
Sure thing. Just run this script and it will create the scene for you. You have to manually connect the first event to the PF_Source node, though. For some reason it doesn't connect right when it's scripted. And this isn't the exact version that's on my site, but you get the idea. If you have any questions, just let me know.

...
Aaaah that's cool. Like the way you commented it all, really clears things up.

amckay
07-08-2005, 06:03 PM
Sorry - still a bit out of it from jet lag.
Feldy, actually left the harddisk I was meant to take to canada in Aus by accident, so going to have to get my gf to send it over.. The DVD's finished, just need to edit it and send it down to Turbosquid. It's looking damn cool - the tanks, lava and other stuff are very cool.

I'll try and organize that later this week - too busy getting drunk over here to do any of that :)

Neejoh
07-09-2005, 12:04 AM
Sorry - still a bit out of it from jet lag.
Feldy, actually left the harddisk I was meant to take to canada in Aus by accident, so going to have to get my gf to send it over.. The DVD's finished, just need to edit it and send it down to Turbosquid. It's looking damn cool - the tanks, lava and other stuff are very cool.

I'll try and organize that later this week - too busy getting drunk over here to do any of that :)Well, I guess it's better to forget a harddisk than forget your passport... Believe me, NOT something you do just for fun :D

Anyway, great news that you've finished it, even better that it's looking damn cool :) Really looking forward to it.
That reminds me, you probably didn't really think of it but that last two tutes on your site (the Customizing your UI/Workflow #1 and Ridged Body stuff) are still down. I know they've cost you A LOT of traffic, but I really would like to see them :D

I hope this all makes sence, it's weekend and the beer is takin' it's toll on me too ;)

amckay
07-10-2005, 06:31 AM
Joel/Intrisnia has been kind enough to offer me to host those remaining files that CharleyC isn't hosting for me, I just haven't gotten around to organizing it all yet. It's a pretty straight forward task but still a bit scattered right now - but I'll try to get onto it asap, I just need to basically hand the files over to intrisnia to host and then change the links destination, no biggy.

Working on a music video right now which involves a lot of 'inteligent' fluids which is becoming quite interesting..

Anyone been doing anything cool with pflow lately that's worth checking out?

plat4m6
07-10-2005, 06:36 AM
heya allan

interestin 2 hear about these 'intellignet fluids', i personally tryin 2 get my head around importing pflow data into realflow to get realflow to mesh my pflow particles the way i want... how do u go about makin ur fluids in general allan? besides glu3D lol... realflow is all i have (in the long term atleast :P )

sadghost
07-10-2005, 09:02 PM
hello Mr mckay! when will you release your next dvd project I'm sure that you are very busy these days, but do you plan on next year maybe ? If so I'll get ADvanced effectand and wait for the other.. i wanted to know how soon will the next installment will be out using max 7 or even 7.5:scream: I would just wait and get that one.

Have you been using pflow alot lately? what new tools are you playing with these days? what new techniques have gotten your creative mind flowing right now you mentioned : "'inteligent' fluids which is becoming quite interesting?"

Also I'm using an ATI radeon 8500dv video card .. and I have a ATHLON 1.15 ghz and 1.25 gb ram.. I know that over all I'll need to upgrade but at this point would a better video card give me better peformance for using pflow..? do you know of a card out there that can do a good job as far as pflow and having a fair amount of object in my scene.. cause I'm getting poor results with just a few object in my scene.

And also I saw your website it's cool.. But for a legend like your self we need to take a poll and see if anyone out there wants to build you a very simple but ILL ASS website that will fit who we see to be a very talented individual :) .. on da real no offense with your site ! with all the things you'ved worked on (info) all your free tuts ! ect...
My brother works for ACCORD productions he use Alot of director/ photoshop ect.. and builds website during his free time ,I could asked him to hook you up ! holla :scream:

Example of a site his building for us (WIP) very sipmle nothing to crazy just the facts and information, Of course for you it will have to be on a nother level.. I do All of our AFTER EFFECT work , so you know that it'll be on anothe level design wise... just a thought.
http://extremeav.com/

p.s: You sound like you would be a cool drinking partener hehehe :) be safe out there on these roads and keep up the good work !

oatz
07-11-2005, 05:33 PM
Anyone been doing anything cool with pflow lately that's worth checking out?

This is a setup I had to work out for a project. The scene included particles flowing through a vessel (easy enough) but then required exterior particles to join the flow. The problem became that after a Find Target, their age wouldn't necessarily coincide with the absolute time of the Speed By Icon animation.

My solution included plotting 100 dummies along the spline with a path constraint (to get a percent value along the spline). Once the particles test true for the find target, they find the nearest dummy. Then they set their age to equal that of the dummy's percent. So now it has the same age as the Speed By Icon at when it reached that percent.

pCont.particleAge = aDummy.position.controller.percent * ceil 3.6 </FONT>
The ceil 3.6 is because the speed by icon animation was 360 frames long * 1 %, but that would yield a float value, so I have to round to the nearest integer.

Scene is attached in Max 7.1.

Khye

yoshimitsu
07-12-2005, 06:03 PM
Hi all. Just found this thread and haven't had time to read all 157 pages, so this may have been covered already.

I tried using mesher on my intensive particle system to save the massive stalling from particle updates, but the mesher is only visible when the particles are active too, so it's pointless. I tried using point cache and edit poly modifiers (seperately) on top of the mesher but it was still dependent on the activity of the PF. How can I capture the particle system to a specific mesh so it wont always calculate? And another thing: if i have my particle displays set to 0% should it still be performing the full particle calculation on every frame? cuz that's what it does.

using MAX 7.

avolution
07-12-2005, 06:29 PM
Have you tried the PF cache operator in the global position?
Caching the Mesher is pointless, because, as you say the meshers
topology is dependant on the pflow...


Hi all. Just found this thread and haven't had time to read all 157 pages, so this may have been covered already.

I tried using mesher on my intensive particle system to save the massive stalling from particle updates, but the mesher is only visible when the particles are active too, so it's pointless. I tried using point cache and edit poly modifiers (seperately) on top of the mesher but it was still dependent on the activity of the PF. How can I capture the particle system to a specific mesh so it wont always calculate? And another thing: if i have my particle displays set to 0% should it still be performing the full particle calculation on every frame? cuz that's what it does.

using MAX 7.

yoshimitsu
07-12-2005, 09:33 PM
Wow, i never noticed that cache operator. I feel like the anus of some non-observant animal.
guess i shoulda looked at the help. PF is so intuitive, i've never gone back to the reference since i got the jist of how it works. thanks for the help!

sadghost
07-13-2005, 12:10 AM
BY the way is it possible to show us the contents of your new dvd or atleast a little more info on what you will cover :drool: ...latta!

I read a few issues witth the ADVANCED EFFECT DVD.. nothing major mostly tutorials
ending when you wouldn't expect/sound noise issues and all that.But 14 hours.. that's great!
Hopefully Turbosquid Now knows how to put out and edit an Allan Mckay highly inticipated dvd.:eek:

Boa
07-13-2005, 04:45 PM
My solution included plotting 100 dummies along the spline with a path constraint (to get a percent value along the spline). Once the particles test true for the find target, they find the nearest dummy. Then they set their age to equal that of the dummy's percent. So now it has the same age as the Speed By Icon at when it reached that percent.


@Khye

Wow, that is a tricky one! Thanks for sharing :)

I could follow your code except for the last line:

pCont.particleInteger = pCont.particleAge

I couldn't see a purpose for that line. Did I miss something or is it just left behind?

Andrea

oatz
07-13-2005, 08:46 PM
Pretty sure that was just for a Script Display Operator that was removed after the scene had be troubleshot(ooted?).

Khye

DeKo-LT
07-16-2005, 07:11 AM
I have PFToolBox#1 and how(probably with Birth script) i can create that's my emitter birth 1 particle when my Dummy01 object Z cordinates is below 0.


Maybe someone can HELP me? :sad:
Thanks!

ArtiZta
07-17-2005, 04:43 AM
interestin 2 hear about these 'intellignet fluids', i personally tryin 2 get my head around importing pflow data into realflow to get realflow to mesh my pflow particles the way i want... how do u go about makin ur fluids in general allan? besides glu3D lol... realflow is all i have (in the long term atleast :P )

We use realflow as well, but I don't think you can import max particles into it. Or do you know the way you might share for us? :) but if not using glu3D's pwrapper, you can try afterburn (but it won't generate mesh though, just render) or use standard bolbmesh.

BlobMesh
Anyway, remember guys I was asking on how to simulate mercury movement, I endup using blobmesh with relax modifier, it worker fine although not it's mesh generating is not good enough for me, the client's loved it. It's still has some small jumps at the joints. Well the jobs done now, everybody is happy :) Now just when we finished that then we bought glu3D coz some other liquid project was coming in. douh! :argh:

So Allan, when's the 2nd DVD going public? :)

Adalast
07-18-2005, 02:16 AM
ok, i'm going to let everyone know upfront, i don't know how to script at all. i am trying to learn, but it's not my cup of tea. so far i've done extremely well with particle flow without scripting. unfortunately i have come upon a project that i cannot do without scripting a controler.

i need a controler to check how far a particle is from the surface of a mesh and when it gets a to a certain range change it's motion over to a find target controller and back to it's original stack when it arives.

i need some help figuring out how to do this or where i can find a very simple tutorial on how to do it. i have everything else figured out and am ready to start on the project, but i cannot get this one thing, and it is crutial to my scene.

i'm trying to keep some of what i'm doing back, as i would like it to be a surprise when i get it done. i will give credit to everyone who helps me.

charleyc
07-18-2005, 02:24 AM
You should be able to do this with a collision test.

Adalast
07-18-2005, 02:42 AM
You should be able to do this with a collision test.

i thought so too, but i am trying to pick up the particles that i lose out of the skin and return them back to the interior. the particles don't like being contained inside a flexing/moving mesh, go figure.

i know this is what i have to do, i am trying to figure out how to loop the find target operator right now, i think if i can do that, it will work just fine.

charleyc
07-18-2005, 02:53 AM
If you have particle flow tools Box#1 you can use the Group Operators to do just that.

Adalast
07-18-2005, 03:00 AM
ok, i can't afford the tool box, so i need a way to get it to do the tests i need without it. the only way i can do that is with a script as far as i can tell. i could just do it with a loop in the stack, but i can't figure out how to do that.

loran
07-18-2005, 01:31 PM
Adalast, can you describe your scene, I don't see what you wanna do...

sadghost
07-18-2005, 03:33 PM
I just received my advanced visual effect dvd by allan mckay 9 minutes ago:)

just thought I'd mention it... latta!

Adalast
07-18-2005, 03:45 PM
i am trying to make elemental avatars/titans/creatures then have them battle or the like. the principal is simple. i use a skin with a udeflector and the normals flipped to contain the particles, then animate it like any other character. i bone it and skin it and the particles bounce around inside and fill the mesh. then i use blob mesh or the proper after burn effects to create the elemental effect i want. i haven't even started on how to do the thunder elemental, because i want the lightning to fill him rather than be on his surface.

i am starting with the water elemental, because i like shiny and refractive objects. i plan on using multiple particle systems to generate different parts, a couple for the eyes and mouth and so on. my current problem is in the skin containing the partcles properly, and looping the find target object.

whenever i bend my mesh, i lose over half of my particles because they don't detect the colision. i solved part of this by turning up the subframe sampleing, but then the solutions take so long, and it still doensn't work out the way it should. even with the render sampeling at 1 tick i lost a rather substantial portion of my particles.

the only way i can see to fix this is making it so that if the particle is lost and starts flying away from the skin, it detects that it is too far from the skin, and changes it's motion control over to a find target that is also applyed to the skin (set to nearest surface) so that way it will just turn around and come back. and the only way i see to do that is with a script, because there is no way to do a distance test with any operator in particle flow, and there is no way to loop a flow.

i tried just letting them leave and generating more, but then i have to have a life on them and constantly spawn more, and i don't constantly lose half my particles every frame, it's just when the particle and the object are moving towards eachother. so then i have a massive number of particles spawning and dying that i don't need to have going on.

OlegB
07-19-2005, 12:36 AM
Oh, man, this is sooooo Lock/Bond operator from the Box#1... Anybody who has it, can confirm. Okay, I'm out of here. Sorry for the plug but that's exactly the task the Lock/Bond operator was conceived in the first place. Allan was quite pushing for this operator because... Hmm, I cannot recall exactly, but it was either a) he was sick and tired with the Scripts trying to achieve this effects; or b) was unable to achieve some level of details with the scripts. If Allan can recall he can jump in...

Thanks,
Oleg B.

Adalast
07-19-2005, 01:11 AM
i realize that there are probably things in the box that will do this particular task (and oh so many others) very well, but getting it is just not an option. i am the sole propriator of my company and only employee, so funds are a little slim to say the least.

i need someone to help me with writing a script to do it, not just say "there is a tool in this $200 plugin that will do exactly what you need it to. i know there is a demo, but i need to be able to save what i am doing so i can work on it later.

i'm at a loss on how to make the system do what i need it to and know it is more than capable of doing.

charleyc
07-19-2005, 01:20 AM
Oleg or Allan may be able to help you with a script, but the reason people are bringing up PFTools box1 is because there are shortcommings with script operators such as level of diffuculty and overall speed. Adding script operators (even very simple ones) will greatly slow down the calc time if there are lots of particles. The tools in this plugin are designed almost specifically for the types of things you are trying to do because there was a need for them.

btw, I too am the sole person responsible for purchasing all my tools. I found that getting a few models that you feel would be useful to many on turboquid (while certainly not getting you rich) can add that little extra to get these tools within a couple months time. Well worth the effort.

trig2
07-19-2005, 01:55 AM
EDIT: Ok realized I could just create another "arrow" array of objects for the second script which would work ok... still haven't a clue on the second problem (copying/linking a particles associated geometry to a potentially moving object)

Ok, this is my first post in this thread but I've been learning a lot from it and the mental ray thread as have many others :)

Anyway my question is a simple scripting problem, I'm using Bobos particle motion transfer script to control "arrows" flying at an object in order to stick in them and make use of reactor, my problem is that when I use a collision test and in the following event assign properties to the particles they no longer retain their associated objects (of course right:P) so I tried simply putting a copy of the script in both events which kinda works but the script in the second event (after the collision) starts stealing objects from the first script (at least thats what I think is happening) and so the objects begin to only appear after collision and not before collision.

That was one heck of a sentence :P Anyway I hope I'm being clear. My only other scripting problem is for some of the objects the "arrows" are hitting I'd like them to stick into the object which would probably be most easily done by copying the associated geometry and linking it to the object, I just have no clue how to do it... Any help would be welcome, thanks.

sadghost
07-19-2005, 02:27 AM
does any one know what kind of video card Allan mckay used for his dvd ADVANCED VFX ? some of those particle counts that he uses I can't even get half on them on screen .. I have a ATI 8500DV 64 DDR CARD . I KNOW IT'S NOT THE BEST BUT WOW.... his updates so fast :shrug:

SoLiTuDe
07-19-2005, 06:53 AM
yeah -- i'm pretty sure he just used his laptop -- nothing amazing from what I've heard.

charleyc
07-19-2005, 08:04 AM
Typically the default heidi driver will out perform any of the other drivers for particles in the viewport. For large particle scenes I will often switch to that.

plat4m6
07-19-2005, 09:00 AM
how do i actually enable this hedi driver on my comp, the only visible options here are OpenGL, DirectX and 'software', is hedi a 3rd party thing?

thnx in adv.

Steve Green
07-19-2005, 09:32 AM
Hi,

Heidi is the software z-buffer option - in the early days of Max there were accelerated drivers which used it as well but since D3D and OGL developed it has become rarer.

It was a way of doing 3D all in software rather than using hardware acceleration. Textures are very slow in it, but particles seem to like it better.

These days, iIt tends to be limited to workstation cards like the Quadro cards which uses Maxtreme drivers, I'm not sure if these drivers are any better for particles or if Software Heidi is still a better option in this case.

Cheers

Steve

amckay
07-19-2005, 09:55 PM
RE: Lock/Bond. This was really genius, Oleg merged two things I desperately wanted to see into one, one is spring based particles, so they aren't stuck on an object but rather bounce around it etc. nthe other is locking them to a surface. They're things easily achievable in maya/houdini but in max seem to be hard on complex surfaces. So achieving effects like scarab beetles running over a character or somthing with speed by surface would prove quite difficult on a deformable surface. Lock/Bond is very stable and very useful.

I do thuroughly recommend pflow tools, pflow and AB are ESSENTIAL to any fx'ers tool kit IMO.

In regards to video cards, EVERYONE seems to think I have some super computer, I did the advanced vfx stuff on a single proc amd 2.8 ghz with like a geforce 4... I work on a 3.2ghz laptop these days, but a lot of the stuff I've been doing up until now has been on a 2.4ghz laptop... It might be a capture thing or something, but I tend to right click on my playbutton to bring up the playback preferences and I turn off 'realtime' so it plays at the pace it can handle.

sadghost
07-20-2005, 12:26 AM
[QUOTE]
but I tend to right click on my playbutton to bring up the playback preferences and I turn off 'realtime' so it plays at the pace it can handle.

BINGO :thumbsup: I just tried and now I have found the solution..thanks
funny what a little piece of knowledge can do to ones life !

avolution
07-20-2005, 04:55 AM
[QUOTE=

.....
I do thuroughly recommend pflow tools, pflow and AB are ESSENTIAL to any fx'ers tool kit IMO.
.....
.[/QUOTE]

When you combine box1.particlepaint with box1.lock-bond you can get some major coolness!
(and it saves having the script it, which can save time and ram in big particle # sims)

Steve Green
07-21-2005, 01:52 AM
Until the fluids get here...

Not sure if this is the best place to critique, but I've been oing for a combination of particles and Dreamscape for a stormy scene at sea...

http://www.stephendgreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/stormy.wmv

(1280x720 WMV) 5 Meg

The breaking waves are a little blobby and fast (Dreamscape meshes bog down the machine so I create a proxy mesh to spawn the breakers, and they don't quite match the Dreamscape surface at the moment)

I'd like to get the rain a bit more squally, just some localised turbulence etc.

And I'm going to work on the model, but I'm just trying to get the scale right for the sea first.

Any comments are welcome.


Thanks,

Steve

sadghost
07-21-2005, 07:10 AM
link is broken ..try again!

SoLiTuDe
07-21-2005, 07:15 AM
Wow steve... that looks amazing. I really can't say a whole lot, other than what you've already mentioned and probably already noticed. I would personally add a bit more detail to the dreamscape material, but thats about it... and some of the foam generation seems a little wierd/too procedural in some spots/not so realistic. Overall though you're definetly on the right track! Good stuff! Rain looks great too!

Steve Green
07-21-2005, 09:01 AM
SadGhost - the link's definitely correct, maybe there's just a limit on connections?

Solitude - thanks, yeah I think all the other stuff is hiding the Dreamscape surface a little, there's quite a few layers so it could be tweaked in the composite.

I tried a neat trick after I posted this, using a displace operator in combustion on the blobbier particles, and using the same footage as the source. This makes them a bit less blobby and a bit more tendril like. They're still too quick though.

I'm going to try using the DS surface as a source for the particles (or at least a lower-res copy to see if I can get them to match properly as well.

It's certainly come a long way since my last attempt at a stormy ocean anyway.

Cheers

Steve

feldy
07-21-2005, 06:37 PM
I would not recomend useing a dreamscape surface or water surface to spwan any particles omg when you do that your machine feels like its gonna die on you its so slow you cant do anything with it. I was trying to make some white caps off the water surface. I had to give it up. so the best of luck to you.

Steve Green
07-21-2005, 06:45 PM
It's actually not so bad in this case since I can make a second smaller DS surface for the area around the base and cache the mesh using Pointcache which speeds things up a bit.

Dreamscape could do with some more interoperability with particles though, and be able to directly cache the mesh would be good as well.

Cheers

- Steve

DeKo-LT
07-22-2005, 08:09 AM
Yeap, ... and Lag is guarannted :rolleyes:

asomma
07-22-2005, 10:54 AM
Please help!!!

I'm using Particle Flow to send flowers flying into a room. These flowers use the SSS Fast Skin material (Rendered in Mental Ray ofcourse).

When I render the flowers without using Particle Flow, they turn out beatiful with a nice sss effect. However, when I use PF with shape instance to send these flying into space the SSS effect is lost. All that remains is a hard rendering (diffuse map only)

I found that this problem is caused by the way Particle Flow handles groups. If I ungroup the original flower and set PF to shapeinstance only one mesh like the petal of the flower it turns out perfect. Also I could attach (make one mesh) all the petals (they have the same Material) and PF-shapeinstance this without problem.

Unfortunately I cannot attach all meshes since they have different materials. As a test I attached all the meshes of the flower, and I got the same results as when i PF-shapeinstanced the group. The SSS was lost.


It looks like Particle Flow generates one single mesh out of a group, and this way looses the different materials, and the SSS effect.



My only solution so far is to instance the event in PF, making one for each mesh (petals, branch, crown etc) and hooking these events up to a single render. However, I fear that this will increase render times, since PF now has to compute 3 or 4 different events.


Is there another solution to this that doesnt include instancing events? Perhaps there is a way to instance several objects based on ONE event??

avolution
07-22-2005, 02:10 PM
Isn't there a render option in pfview/render to render each particle as seperate mesh.
the default is all particles as one mesh...experiment with this setting..it might help!


Please help!!!

I'm using Particle Flow to send flowers flying into a room. These flowers use the SSS Fast Skin material (Rendered in Mental Ray ofcourse).

When I render the flowers without using Particle Flow, they turn out beatiful with a nice sss effect. However, when I use PF with shape instance to send these flying into space the SSS effect is lost. All that remains is a hard rendering (diffuse map only)

I found that this problem is caused by the way Particle Flow handles groups. If I ungroup the original flower and set PF to shapeinstance only one mesh like the petal of the flower it turns out perfect. Also I could attach (make one mesh) all the petals (they have the same Material) and PF-shapeinstance this without problem.

Unfortunately I cannot attach all meshes since they have different materials. As a test I attached all the meshes of the flower, and I got the same results as when i PF-shapeinstanced the group. The SSS was lost.


It looks like Particle Flow generates one single mesh out of a group, and this way looses the different materials, and the SSS effect.



My only solution so far is to instance the event in PF, making one for each mesh (petals, branch, crown etc) and hooking these events up to a single render. However, I fear that this will increase render times, since PF now has to compute 3 or 4 different events.


Is there another solution to this that doesnt include instancing events? Perhaps there is a way to instance several objects based on ONE event??

asomma
07-22-2005, 03:46 PM
nope. I've tried that. The material is ruined anyway..

Also, the problem with my temporary solution is that its hard to get the pivots of all the objects to match. If I try to align teh pivots they get screwed up. And if i press the Reset Trasform - it no longer appears in my PF system!

charleyc
07-22-2005, 04:27 PM
....Unfortunately I cannot attach all meshes since they have different materials. As a test I attached all the meshes of the flower, and I got the same results as when i PF-shapeinstanced the group. The SSS was lost...

It seems this is a problem with the MR SSS shader and Multi-Subobject materials, not specifically Particle Flow (which probably internally generates a Multi-Subobject material when using multiple materialed instances?).

amckay
07-22-2005, 10:36 PM
Steve very nice work man
only crit might be all the particle splashes are a little too fast moving for the scale of them. I reckon that whole scene kicks ass, very cool work.

Avolution are you asking whether you can make every particle a seperate object? Well you could with a lot of hacking around, easiest way might be to actually build a bunch of objects and then have them linked to the particles, then they'll be they're own but still follow the attributes of their parent particle. I'll write you a quick script to show how it's done if you're interested.

-Allan

Steve Green
07-22-2005, 10:45 PM
Hi Allan,

thanks for the compliments - yeah, the speed and randomness of the splashes is the main thing that's wrong with it at the moment.

Fixed the speed is easy enough, and I think I'm just going to place a few splashes by hand. I had tried to get them to work procedurally but the mesh for the sea is so dense that it's really too chuggy to be intuitive.

Cheers,

Steve

asomma
07-23-2005, 01:57 AM
Hi Allan.

Actually its me who need this script. Avolution was trying to help me...

I have this flower which consists of differents meshes with different materials. I've grouped it together and would like to send out lots of these with PFlow.

Problem is the "SSS fast skin" material doesnt handle the way PFlow assigns materials, and I loose the SSS effect.

If u have a script that allows me to make this group follow the particles I'd be very interested!

-Alex

charleyc
07-24-2005, 06:54 AM
I was playing around last night and came up with this. It can stand a lot of tweaking, but it was fun. Its using Lock/Bond to keep the fire around the mesh. If I get some time, I might do a quick animation of the guy.
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/FireMan.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/FireMan.avi)

I still need to see that movie :P I love the concept of the Human Torch.

Steve Green - I like that animation, kind of reminds me of the Stargate Atlantis shots of Atlantis

Edit: Here is a slightly altered version, but mostly the same.
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/FireMan2.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/FireMan2.avi)

Steve Green
07-24-2005, 09:46 AM
Hi Charley,

it's a funny coincidence - they just started showing the pilot where it rises up to the surface a couple of days after I posted it. I hadn't seen it until then...

Cheers

Steve

Neejoh
07-24-2005, 07:16 PM
Hey Charley,

that's one hell of an animation! Well done! Really like the way how you've build up this guy. The only thing I would change is the way the guy burns, probably change it a bit more towards the tendril teapot tutorial from Allan.

charleyc
07-24-2005, 08:04 PM
it is partially using allans tendril fire technique (spawned and scaled spheres with his highlight material trick), but I agree, that is the portion I think needs the most work. Perhaps simply increasing the number of tedrils would help...I don't know, I may set up another render tonight....Thanks for the comment though.

amckay
07-25-2005, 06:12 AM
charleyc been meaning to drop you an email.. had a look at your site finally - you've got some really cool stuff up there mate, awesome work.

charleyc
07-25-2005, 06:56 AM
charleyc been meaning to drop you an email.. had a look at your site finally - you've got some really cool stuff up there mate, awesome work.

Thanks :D
I really enjoy doing this stuff.

amckay
07-26-2005, 09:12 PM
who's going to sig this year? wanna snag me a beer or something?
locked away in the dark reals of canada so won't be making an appearance this year :\

avolution
07-26-2005, 09:18 PM
However, the beers WAY Better up here in Canada!
I'd like to see Siggraph occur up in Toronto in 06'!



who's going to sig this year? wanna snag me a beer or something?
locked away in the dark reals of canada so won't be making an appearance this year :\

amckay
07-26-2005, 09:46 PM
yeah that'll be cool! I think I'll still be on the same friggin project this time next year, so might pop back up here to finish it up.



first time in a year I got to wonder around cgtalk today saw that tips section, here's a quick contribution thought I'd post here since a lot is fx related.



how to get particles to look really fine in the viewport. I use heidi opposed to hw for particles, it's slightly faster and my particles are 10's smaller with dots, so you can see really fine particle passes.

Everyone asks me what kind of super computer I'm using, it's only just occurred to me recently what they're referring to. I usually turn off real time with particles, by right clicking on the play button and turning real time off it'll not force the playback to keep up with the real time (24fps etc.) but rather as fast as it can go. So that works great for particles since if they get exponentially slower it still shows all the particles, it stops it from causing crashes and stuffing up, and also means you see everything going on, rather than it skipping frames and freaking out.

I use the script listener a lot, keep it open even if you don't script, you can enable the listener and then pay attention to what it's doing. If you have 50 increments of particle systems or even bones, you can select them all and apply the same lines in the command line to all of them with a few wildcards to save you time in the long run. Just basic stuff there.

fx wise I don't always use fancy solutions, I'll use little boxes or tetra's when necessary, hell I'm working on a movie right now which one of the big money sequences I'm not using any in house fluids software (well for this bit anyway) or any fancy raymarchers, just lots of lilttle boxes for water foam and other crap like that. A lot of old school stuff gets overlooked. I was amazed when I first went to Blur Studios that some of the coolest effects they were pulling out that looked Aura'esk were just parray's with spheres. Sometime's I'll render non anti-aliased little squares (heaps of them) and mess with them in 2D to get kickass fire or smoke, that renders almost real time.

Build things to scale.. not necessarily real world scale.. but max SUCKS when it comes to scales. FX especially, wind turbulences etc. are very sensitive. It's good to set a default generic scene scale for everyone with your team to work with, otherwise you're screwed when everything goes through past animation to you and you're suddenly realizing that the characters are 200' tall and you can't size them down easily. Usually good to work out your scale and then create a generic human model or spline that you use as a reference whenever working with scenes. I usually work in meters and treat 5 or so default spheres (like type sphere() in the listener) as the size of a human, turbulence works perfectly at that scale. Where I work now we've scripted a default human we can drag out as a primitive when checking scales etc.

There's a lot that can be done in 2D, so don't f## with things in 3D more than they need to, and it's also good to comp your own stuff so you can see how it's going to look, it also means you can pick up errors quicker that might be encountered... so as forgetting to check that your scene's timing isn't on NTSC when everyone else is working at 24fps ;) Which is also another point about rendering, it's always good to check you're rendering to the right dir, you haven't got some giant teapot accidentally unhidden etc. I've had people work under me who show me stuff in dailies the next day oblivious to the fact there's a giant pink cube right in front of the camera and think that it was part of the scene that was meant to be rendered... !!.. anyway so much stuff can go wrong with rendering, it's always good to stick around those 15 mins and check 2-3 frames (and yes not just 1) render.. you never know what kind of crap could pop up.

There's dozens of other stuff that can go wrong, so always good to keep that in mind.

Gunnah
07-26-2005, 10:19 PM
who's going to sig this year? wanna snag me a beer or something?
locked away in the dark reals of canada so won't be making an appearance this year :\


easy now southerner........... >:)


G

amckay
07-26-2005, 10:23 PM
I meant the wonderful world of wnpg :)

sadghost
07-26-2005, 10:58 PM
Great :thumbsup: thanks Allan.
I think that your post above, it self is a tool box!
Tips like that are very useful for us, and becuse of it I can now display up to 500.000 particle dots in my viewport wich befor my pc would cry at 1.000 particles.
You should include these little tips in like 3 minutes on your DVD tuts just a thought.

I think that Superman might need a super vfx guy like you too work on him, given the current state of comic book super hero movies that's been released this year. :scream:

p.s "do you have your own vfx company I Tought you mention something like that ? well maybe not

Neejoh
07-26-2005, 11:49 PM
Allan: "how to get particles to look really fine in the viewport. I use heidi opposed to hw (Hardware I take?) for particles, it's slightly faster and my particles are 10's smaller with dots, so you can see really fine particle passes."
If I understand well, you use a software driver? I changed from DirectX to Software G Buffer and it works a LOT faster, but what is that babbeling about Heidi? Stand alone driver or something?
I've read this tip before on your website, but back then I didn't understand it exactly so I skipped it... Not a very smart move :P

charleyc
07-27-2005, 12:41 AM
Heidi is the name of the software driver that ships with max.

SoLiTuDe
07-27-2005, 01:21 AM
My directx keeps up with heidi in particles for the most part, but looks horrible (big dots!) and directx kicks heidi's ass in modelling... so now i'll just have to create two dif. shortcuts i guess if i can figure out a command line for it. Till then i just have the -h so i can pick every time i open it. and my maxtreme drivers are the slowest by far.. and look the worst. Opengl is kind of slow... maybe time to hunt down some beta drivers or something. (running a quadrofx 1100)

amckay
07-27-2005, 07:06 AM
I mentioned some of this in customize ui #1 video tut which is currently offline and the other stuff I was going to mention in future.

btw who here has experience with converting cameras from maya to max? Doing some stuff like this right now and not getting that accurater results.

I do have my own freelance company, but basically starting to gear towards starting my own mini studio to handle a lot of fx work, already getting a lot of studios outsourcing their more heavy shots to me, so doing lots of game cinematics and music video work right now. So gearing towards this since I'm building a lot of pipeline tools and infastructure for handling kickass effects for projects fairly seamlessly. So it's not official yet but definitely trying to open the doors to more and more fx work.

yeah directx obviously will handle poly's better, so in the end it really vary's on what you're doing.

going to put my old tuts up this week, was going to do it today but busy as a mofo...

ace4016
07-27-2005, 07:20 AM
btw who here has experience with converting cameras from maya to max? Doing some stuff like this right now and not getting that accurater results.


Not experienced in converting cameras between apps since I only use max, but maybe you can use the fbx file format to export the cameras. Although it might not be too accurate and you probably tried it already.

wscates
07-27-2005, 08:40 AM
Allan:
I've gotten cameras between the two using fbx, the sticking point that I've come across is that it has to be in square pixels. From what I could find it has to do with the way the film gate is handled in each program. In Maya both the vertical and horizontal are adjustable. In Max they are locked together. I was starting to write a tutorial a while ago, but scraped it when I ran into the film gate problem. I'll see if I can find it and post it if you think it might help you.

amckay
07-27-2005, 04:29 PM
Cheers, I've been working on a music video which the studio was doing it all in maya, and the budget wasn't big great enough for me to do it in maya since it'd take double the time and the rendering'd suck. So was all peachy, used some script and got it all across, but then just today got the plates to match the lighting too and the cameras weren't matching up at all.

Got into fbx looks like it's working some of the shots needed the fov adjusted so not sure entirely if it is working but in the office this morning so won't get to really have a propper play until lunch I'd say.

One of my mates at Weta wrote a maya > max script back in like 2000, it'd just export objects one at a time and bake out the keys to an ascii file. Nothing fancy and awkward to use, but was the only thing remotely close back then. Camera wise though there was a magic equation floating around the office on how to convert the lense info since max's aren't real world cameras (honestly I don't understand why there were stupid things in 3dsDos that never got fixed like this, XZY/XYZ etc. when it got ported to max... stupid..). Anyway so hopefully fbx'll work, cheers mate.

If I get this crap out of the way today then I might have time to actually fill some of the empty promises I have of tuts and bad links and other crap I keep saying I'll do ;)

frogspasm
07-27-2005, 05:42 PM
Here's a page from the CG Academy site on the subject of camera conversion between Max and Maya. Several scripts are provided. Can't say I've had time to try it yet, but it looked like pretty good information at first glance.

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/pages/free_tutorials/tut_3dsmax_to_maya_transfer/ct_tut_max_to_maya_mesh&camera_transfer.htm

Hey Alan, I just got back from Canada, for my fist vacation in 3 years.
Vancouver and Whistler...beautiful country.

I'll have a beer or two for you at Siggraph!

~Mike D.

psy_med
07-27-2005, 09:28 PM
Hi everone,
I have been avidly reading this thread for ages but havent felt the need to post untill now.

Im trying to create an effect i saw on the cinematic trailer for Hellgate: London done by Blur Studios (Sorry i don't have any screen shots of it but heres a link to there site which has the trailer on it http://www.hellgatelondon.com/downloads.html ).

The exact effect im trying to create is the wispy blue trails that follow the sword towards the end of the trailer. I've done several test and just can't seem to nail the effect so any suggestions on how it might have been done would be greatly appreciated.

Neejoh
07-27-2005, 09:59 PM
Hi everone,
[..]

Hmm, the video's are down.. They're giving me a 404, so I can't help you I'm afraid :P

psy_med
07-27-2005, 10:57 PM
Woah. sorry about that i should have checked them before posting the link.
Well there a large amount of other places you can get the trailer from (google knows where :) ) but here a link anyway http://www.3dgamers.com/games/hellgatelondon/downloads/

Also after searching around i acutally found someone from blur explaining how they made a similar effect which i think is relevent because this effect (the fire coming of the demon) is similar to the trails that come from the sword. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=243015&page=12&pp=15&highlight=blur+studios
(bottom of the page)

The only problem with that though is they used thinking particles for it and i wonder if its possible to do with particle flow. Im thinking something to do with controling the birth of the particles by a texture but i havent had any luck with that yet.

I also found the "supervisor of the effects" for the effects im talking about and his website is http://www.wonderslime.com/main.html. which has some nice screenshots of the effect, most notably this one (http://www.wonderslime.com/open.php?image=0100)

amckay
07-28-2005, 03:18 AM
yeah spoke to chris thomas about doing the fbx stuff cheers for that. Canada's cool wouldn't mind coming back sometime.

RE: hellgate, my mate Daniel did all of that, he usually uses lots of particles with parray cubes and turbulence, and makes them fade away over time - nothing too fancy but looks cool.

ah just reading your post see you found more info. yeah I believe kirby used TP for the project and afterburn, and daniel did for the wall breaking etc.
but a lot was parray and pflow, just some of the complicated fracturing was tp...

charleyc
07-28-2005, 05:46 AM
psy_med - here is something I just made that is similar, you may be able to get there from here, but I can see where either AB was used or a good bit of compositor tweaks to get to what is in the Hellgate trailer.

www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/SwordTrail.ZIP (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/SwordTrail.ZIP)

www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/SwordTrail.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/SwordTrail.avi)

charleyc
07-28-2005, 06:03 AM
I suppose I should mention that the file I linked is using the Lock/Bond Test of PFTools Box#1. If you don't have it, you could either Lock the particles in place in the Position by Object Operator or if you have a lot of time to kill, set the Position by Object Operator to place by Grayscale. In either case, the Force Op and the Lock/Bond Test can be deactivated or deleted.

nathanwallis
07-28-2005, 06:03 AM
Hey there,

Just wondering if someone can help me out. I have a pflow setup that has an instance of an object in the scene. And with a script I adjust the rotation of the original object, this effects the original object but not the one in my pflow setup. Is the rotation not passed onto pflow instances? If not how do I effect the rotation of my particle I guess, and will rotating my particle in turn rotate the geometry that is attached to it.

Thanks,

Nathan

psy_med
07-28-2005, 07:34 AM
Cool thanks for the replys guys. sorry im still at school charlec but i'll look at your files when i get home :).

So the effect i was looking at was just made with a huge amount of particles in pflow then allan?. Id'e love to try and make something similar but im still a bit unsure of how to go about it. i was trying a position object operator set to birth by grayscale and then i animated the texture but it didnt animate the birth positions :shrug: .

charleyc
07-28-2005, 07:37 AM
When using Position by Object (or any surface related op) that is calling to an animated map, you need to have Aniamted checked in the Op to tell PFlow to check throughout the animation.

psy_med
07-28-2005, 09:02 AM
Yeh i did have the animated check box ticked but i think it wasnt working because i was playing around with the uvw's for some strange reason, not quite sure what i was hoping to accomplish there :/

WOW! that sword trail effect you made charleyc is amazing, how long it take you to do that?
Its a pretty simple (sort of :P) concept but i just never though of doing that but yeh that is the exact effect i was looking for. Thanks again :)

amckay
07-28-2005, 04:35 PM
charley if you make a new material, make the filter colour a bright grey (210 grey), bit of specular, and a particle age map set to fade off, and set the opacity of it to be about 20% you'll have the exact effect before glowing it ;)

cool work.

The guy who did that effect just went over to sony so he'll buy a maya whore in no time ;) (kidding).

psy_med
07-28-2005, 05:19 PM
damm as if you would want to go to sony when you could stay with blur. oh well but hopefully there are more people down at blur making cool looking pflow effects, and there is always allan:D:D:D,

Any word on that new dvd by the way? im certainly looking forward to that as i love all the other stuff you have done, hopefully if you release it through turbosquid again you WONT let them decide on the cover.

charleyc
07-28-2005, 05:47 PM
Thanks for the compliments.

charley if you make a new material, make the filter colour a bright grey (210 grey), bit of specular, and a particle age map set to fade off, and set the opacity of it to be about 20% you'll have the exact effect before glowing it ;)....

That pretty much is the matieral it has except I don't have the filter color quite that high. I think I have the glossiness a bit too sharp and I usually fade the spec out with a particle age as well as opac. The particles slow down so much that the lack of mBlur gives it a grainy look. I played with it for about 2 min in Combustion and made it look a lot closer.

amckay
07-28-2005, 09:40 PM
made another one of those 'tricks n tips' posts in the main forum, thought I'd repeat it here since this is pretty much the only real thread I ever visit right now...


This isn't heavy scripting or anything... useful command for writing quick shortcuts to other apps inside of max is shelllaunch..

Basically if you wanted to make a buttom to view your preview in framecycler, or load photoshop from inside max, notepad for writing notes, bring up your schedule or whatever you need, you can do all of this fairly easily. Just means you don't need to minimize all your work to find and run something.

so for instance lets say you wanted to use mediaplayer2 instead of the chunky mediaplayer 10 to view your preview, simple and easy to just adjust with assosiations but again it might just be a more max specific thing...

lets just say it was located in C:\windows\mediaplayer2.exe..
write a quick line in the script listener..
shelllaunch "C:\windows\mediaplayer2.exe" "C:\3dsmax7\previews\_scene.avi"

you can put any additional flags or your location of your preview file etc. in the additional "" quotes, so if it were to loop -r could be an additional flag on top of that. anyway just useful little bits of info, so you can load apps or do whatever you needed. Lets say you're low on space you could tell a button to clear your glu3d cache or something ;)

So just thought I'd throw another one in.

Cheers,

-AM

Neejoh
07-29-2005, 01:48 AM
That's one way to do it :)
I usually use the windows "run" command. With a little trick (give me a shout) you can add shortcuts to it so you can startup programs with a simple "mpclassic" command (or maybe a shortcut to => mpclassic "c:\3dsmax7\previews\_scene.avi" <= and name it "preview" (yep, flags are also allowed..). In that case you'll only have to type "preview" in the run command box (win+R) and voila. A real timesaver.

But I'm still struggling with that damn mediaplayer 9/10... Everytime I make a preview it automaticly starts MP9, and that's not even my default player... :( Do you guys know a way to change the path or something, so it would start the classic player? I can't seem to find it...

amckay
07-29-2005, 07:41 AM
Yeah I used to set paths with batch commands etc. in dos so I could execute stuff on the fly without being in that specific dir.
I mainly pointed this out since it's good if you want to make a photoshop icon in your toolbar or to load another max or explore your projects/renders dirs etc. stuff like that so you can be in expert mode with a floating toolbar with icons to all that stuff, just an easily overlooked command great for making quick shortcuts inside of max rather than going to windows programs or whatever to find them.

One thing we did at Digital Dimension that's easy and primtive but still kinda a good idea is add photoshop max etc. to your start menu with a designed number in front of it like 1 - 3dsmax, 2 - photoshop etc. simple idea, but meant you can just hit the windows key and the number, like windows_key + 1 to load max, kinda speeds things up quite considerably considering how simple it is.

sadghost
07-30-2005, 02:12 AM
HEY Allan .. why aren't you at work ? I didn't see ya in one of those clips. :)
don't tell that they have you working underground :arteest:

http://www.bluetights.net/bulletin_list.php

is it possible to tell us what kind of effect that you are working on...? I saw some pre viz fx on clip #10.. what that your handy work?

amckay
07-30-2005, 07:56 PM
Ah well lets just say if I were a 'previs' artist I might maybe perhaps pop up in there ;) And that's all down at fox studios set in Sydney, Australia. I'm up in Canada right now.

Down there everyone's a lot more relaxed about mentioning that supermans being filmed right now etc. Although up here it seems everyone's a lot more tight lipped about it's exsistence, so I'm going to walk around in denial that it exsists

But yeah that clip is all previs stuff, I almost did previs on starwrs 3 doing all the fx/compositing although with that exception I've never had anything to do with previs in my life.. thank god!

sadghost
07-31-2005, 07:42 AM
Well o.k .. maybe one day (6.30.2006) we'll know what top secrets work you guys where cooking up in canada.. have fun...:thumbsup:

jigu
07-31-2005, 03:32 PM
well this thread is an excellent thread on pflow.here is the pflow test i did which is inspired from charley;s particles transport test.i would like to show my test here if u ppl don;t mind. and would like to hear comments.:)

download:::
http://jigu.actkid.com/output1actkid1.mov (http://jigu.actkid.com/output1actkid1.mov)

Neejoh
07-31-2005, 11:05 PM
Looks pretty cool. I guess you used shape facing (camera) for the particles? Looks pretty solid, that's cool. Got 2 tips, though :)

Maybe you could play around with a bit of turbulance. The transition is a bit to static if you ask me. When he goes into the Find Target event, it shoots right at it. Maybe it would be a bit more dynamic if you add some wind turbulance to it! I think that would look pretty nice.

2nd is about the end of the movie. When "actkid.com" turns up, it looks a bit like you missed some frames. At first your building up the text with particles, the next moment it's a solid object.

amckay
08-01-2005, 02:33 AM
Hey guys, updated my site just with mirror links to all my tuts, and the ones that were down are up again now. I've recorded a few new tuts this weekend on pflow, glu and other other stuff, so I'll put them up this weekend too later this week. Thanks to CharleyC, Intrisnia and Joel Hooks for help with this stuff, hopefully now noone'll take a very big bandwidth hit.

Maybe one day I'll fix my site so it doesn't look like ass ;)

Oh and put up my reel finally, bit low quality and nothing great but has some of the new stuff I did last year.

jigu
08-01-2005, 03:15 AM
Hey guys, updated my site just with mirror links to all my tuts, and the ones that were down are up again now. I've recorded a few new tuts this weekend on pflow, glu and other other stuff, so I'll put them up this weekend too later this week. Thanks to CharleyC, Intrisnia and Joel Hooks for help with this stuff, hopefully now noone'll take a very big bandwidth hit.

Maybe one day I'll fix my site so it doesn't look like ass ;)

Oh and put up my reel finally, bit low quality and nothing great but has some of the new stuff I did last year.

Wooooohhh!!that's really good news .
abd BTW i just have bought ur Turbotraining DVD...it;s pretty good.but it;s too costly.it costs me 94$(with 35$ shipping chartge to india.) ....now i found LOR DVDs which has pretty cool tutorials and animation.those DVDs may be look cheap.but i can;t buy coz i just have spent money.if anyone have it can they share with me if don;t mind.

also i m trying to make mushroom clouds like shown in DVDs.i would like get some tips.if u don;t mind.

jigu
08-01-2005, 03:20 AM
Thanks Neejoh for tips.actually i m trying to build geometry trasnporting same particles from the begining.for actkid.com text animation, i use find target test in which target is actkid.com and it is builded from jigu exploded particles.but due to so much speed and accleration of target test, particle comes to fast to actkid.com geomatry which makes it preetty crapy.i think i have to keyframed particles.

i hope u understand my english.

jigu
08-01-2005, 03:26 AM
BTW allan mckay do u have updated ur demoreel with ur latest work or r u gonna plan to make it.? coz downloading ppl's VFx demoreel from net is being my passion and it inspires me a lot to make something good.afterall i don;t have good schools here and whatever.as being a selftaught this kinds of material helps a lot.atleast breakdown in the demoreel works to much better as a tutorial. and inspires and encourage to do some kinda cool work.

i hope to get ur new demoreel very soon as u can.

BTW guys i have downloaded 1.10 GB collection of Demoreel's all around the net and still i have left a lot to download from VFxtalk.com if anyone wants to see ppl;s demoreel collection(most of r only VFx demoreel.) tell me where can i upload it for u?:)

sadghost
08-01-2005, 04:41 AM
I'm a grown man and I don't kiss ass :scream: but Allan you kept your word even under all that work load you still remember other people who roam this matrix trying to master our particle Flow techniques,It seems that everytime you put out something it's pure . trust me most of us are greatful! geat job!:bounce:

p.s: yes I will add to the trafic jam on your site tonight.

Werewolf006
08-01-2005, 09:05 AM
I Wish I can figure out how the fireball R&D was made Allan. It's not working. did you use other stuff than wind and Garvity and Drag? Age tests? Scripts?

Edit: a Quick revision of a very old video tuturial I think Spherical winds where used. Got to try it

amckay
08-01-2005, 02:23 PM
did you download the vid tut? yeah used spherical wind to have it pull in a little bit at the tip.

sadghost, thanks for your support. Will have more stuff to add soon, holiday today in canada so got a bit more time to get on top of things today.

Werewolf006
08-01-2005, 02:43 PM
did you download the vid tut? yeah used spherical wind to have it pull in a little bit at the tip.


I have the tut on my HD... I d'loaded it 2 years ago probably back when your site was grey instead of black. and the quality is not good to say the least it's called particles 101 or something.
you used a P-Array Back then but the principle applies to PFlow
the problem is the amount of forces on the particles is normalizing, thus they all travel in one direction instead of spreading. Should I use Decay?

Edit Tried Decay it works better now. Still Can't figure out how to get the spead right

Attached a quick preview

jigu
08-01-2005, 02:48 PM
btw allan u told that u had recorded some new tutorials on glu3d and pflow.wher r they? i downloaded everything from ur site.but i can see only new mirrors there.nothing new.i m waiting.

Mills
08-01-2005, 04:23 PM
HI guys
I am doing a animation using particle flow
For the animation I am doing I need to reverse the animation to get the motion of the particles correct.
At first I thought I can just render it, and reverse it in after effects,
but I am having big problem with getting my camera angle/motion correct.
How can I get Max timeline to play back wards?
I have tried _ time configuration_ Play back_ direction _ reverse
But the frames does not play real tine and when I switch real-time on it plays forward again.
What am I doing wrong, how can I fix this?
_______

jigu
08-01-2005, 04:39 PM
i don;t think is that anyway u can render reverse animation in max. can u plz tell properly what r u trying to animate with particles and why do u want it to make reverse.it will make idea more clear.

Neejoh
08-01-2005, 05:24 PM
@Allan: Thanks for that! Really looked forward to the "Customize your UI" video. On the VFX you mentioned some things I still use today (floating control panel and such), so I'm hoping this one can offer me some more timesaving tricks!
Is that the sandstorm you were working on way back in this thread? I remember you mention it, but the files went down and I never had a chance to take a look at it. But if so, I understand all those replies you got on it :D It really looks amazing.
Just watched your Reel, and what can I say.... It looks great, not only the effects but also the way the video is put together.

With that said, I also want to say thanks for the hosters, we all know what kind of traffic bombs Allan's stuff create :D

@the_jigu: check allan's post :)

[..]
I've recorded a few new tuts this weekend on pflow, glu and other other stuff, so I'll put them up this weekend too later this week.
[..]


I have the tut on my HD... I d'loaded it 2 years ago probably back when your site was grey instead of black. and the quality is not good to say the least it's called particles 101 or something.
you used a P-Array Back then but the principle applies to PFlow
the problem is the amount of forces on the particles is normalizing, thus they all travel in one direction instead of spreading. Should I use Decay?

Edit Tried Decay it works better now. Still Can't figure out how to get the spead right

Attached a quick preview
I'm not sure I understand right, but you want to know how Allan did the fire in the particles101 video? Or are you just interrested in a Pflow fire tutorial? Allan has one on his "black" website, so I guess you just have to take a look at that one. Very easy to understand, with a pretty cool end result!

Neejoh
08-01-2005, 05:34 PM
whoops :o double post

Amahpour
08-02-2005, 12:44 AM
how make particle collision in PF?
i mean how to make them to do not interfear each other!

Chris Thomas
08-02-2005, 12:53 AM
You can do that with the KEEP APART operator. It allows you to define a sperical area within which the particles repel each other. There is a full dscription of how to use it in the online docs. Or you can check out this DVD here. Its covered in depth on there.

http://www.cg-academy.net/pages/topic_particles/dvds_pflowbasics2/dvds_pflowbasics2.htm

Cheers

amckay
08-02-2005, 04:32 AM
the jigu they're not up yet, I'll probably put them up tomorrow
all my website html stuff is on another laptop of mine back in Aus so it makes it a bit difficult to edit my site etc. from here without the files, so might just upload them for the time being and later make an anouncement or something. See how I go. Back in Aus in 2 weeks so not too long.

RE: my reel, I put a new one up it's like www.allanmckay.com/amckay_05.avi or something. 15mb. It's got most of my stuff from last year, nothing I've done this year.

mills. this is just a hack but if you don't have lots of particles you could assign objects to those particles, bake out the animation and reverse the keys. I've never played much with particle timelines or baking them out so this is just a hack way to do it. it'd be mostly pflow script, generate objects and assign their pos to the particle, then run an external script to bake it to keys etc.

nee: The reel's editing's a bit bleh, I wasn't really too keen to spend time on my reel, I haven't used my reel in years to get work, and I'm more focussed on starting my own mini studio now so if I cut a reel it'll be more of a studio reel than a freelance reel.

sadghost
08-02-2005, 06:27 AM
quick question Allan , is there a way that you can have your tuts from 3dluvr in pdf format that will make it alot easier to read and download and keep for future references. I know that it might be alot of work so keep that in mind for the future.
I found a few of your tuts online as pdf, but I think that you cover some of the same materials and more on the 3dluvr website.

these are some of Mckay's tuts as pdf,link below:
http://www.the3dstudio.com/product_search.aspx?id_author=32

p.s: uuhmm ..How do you get the comand panel to float around..I'm a shamed to say that I viewed the tut but just can't quite get that part,:blush: It could be the fact that it's now 4:20 AM.

Werewolf006
08-02-2005, 11:06 AM
p.s: uuhmm ..How do you get the comand panel to float around..I'm a shamed to say that I viewed the tut but just can't quite get that part,:blush: It could be the fact that it's now 4:20 AM.

He Explains it in his Customize UI Video

@ Neejoh Not the tendril fire tut. He has an R&D preview clip showing a fire blast looks like an explosion. I think in his new reel he used a similar teqnique for a blast. I'm sure it's more complicated and has AB written all over it.

Mills
08-02-2005, 12:16 PM
Thanks Allan, I will try baking them, but I have lots of particles here and no time to do scripting tests (my scripting's up 2 sh@t). I sure I will find a way.
Anyways, thanks 4 all your help here and making your knowledge available, your Advanced Visual Effects DVD has been a gr8 help on many occasions.
Here's something i recently finished.
MK8901.mov_4.30 MB (http://www.algorythmrecordings.com/MK8901.mov)
MK9802.mov_1.00 MB (http://www.algorythmrecordings.com/MK8902.mov)

jigu
08-02-2005, 02:16 PM
hey MILLS u did really nice test!! As being a self taught and home student .....u gave me some homework to do some job!! i must do that kind of test.:eek:

BTW i have one question...how can i break object into fragments? like we can did in parray as parray has inbuilt feature of particle type::object fragement.where as in pflow we can assign shape instant operator and put group of chunks as a shape.but when teapot or whatever object broken....it doesn;t give nice object. i mean it doesn;t seems like object is ibeing broken.how can i solve this problem in pflow? is there anyway i can break object into fragements?

i really want to do it.....coz i m trying object construction test.like showing architectural timelapse construction etc etc..........

i hope u guys understand my question.sorry for my bad english.

avolution
08-02-2005, 03:39 PM
Use of a birth script will yield the desired results, combined with some sort
of fragment generator to create the fragments in the birth script...


hey MILLS u did really nice test!! As being a self taught and home student .....u gave me some homework to do some job!! i must do that kind of test.:eek:

BTW i have one question...how can i break object into fragments? like we can did in parray as parray has inbuilt feature of particle type::object fragement.where as in pflow we can assign shape instant operator and put group of chunks as a shape.but when teapot or whatever object broken....it doesn;t give nice object. i mean it doesn;t seems like object is ibeing broken.how can i solve this problem in pflow? is there anyway i can break object into fragements?

i really want to do it.....coz i m trying object construction test.like showing architectural timelapse construction etc etc..........

i hope u guys understand my question.sorry for my bad english.

jigu
08-02-2005, 04:09 PM
yeah thanks i can see using birthscript operator i can do that!! but i don;t know much scripting!! where can i get that script to make a birth of object?

amckay
08-02-2005, 05:35 PM
If I have tuts on the web that are in pdf then someone's gone ahead and done that without approaching me.. But all of the 3dluvr stuff is property of 3dluvr.com, I originally did it all in a very saveably format, although Pedja the host of 3dluvr wanted to make it a lot harder to copy or at least more 3dluvr's format so people keep going back there rather than grab it once and that's it, hence the same for all the vid tuts up on that site as well all stream.

Which is perfectly understandable but I don't have copies of those tuts anymore and they're all 3dluvr property so you're best to approach the webmaster.

wow - hah I just had a look at those pdf's, I only looked at the first two but I didn't even make a clothing tutorial ;) so guess they've screwed a few things up.

that's a bit of a blast from the past seeing all those tuts - man they're old :) like 1999 hehe

the jigu there's a tutorial on my site that goes through fragmenting objects I believe. I also wrote a script to do it (which sucks) on the site. and there's a dozen more on scriptspot.

Mills
08-02-2005, 05:55 PM
yeah thanks i can see using birthscript operator i can do that!! but i don;t know much scripting!! where can i get that script to make a birth of object?

the_jigu, look on this page of this thread.......
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=114324&page=148&pp=15&highlight=fracture

Birth script u will find here:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__Chunks_Basics.htm

U will have to brake the object up yourself, and rename all the "fracture bits" accordingly
Blur has a "Renamer" script u can do this with.
http://www.neilblevins.com/blurscripts/blurscripts.htm
Hope this helps.

amckay
08-02-2005, 11:08 PM
max actually has a built in renamer now fyi.. forgot all about that.

Here are two quick tuts... I'm tempted to rerecord these, they're really really bad. Did them as more of a test, but anyway I'm probably going to start releasing some QNE (quick and easy) tutorials, which are just small small tuts on various things.

Anyway like I said these tuts are bad
but find em here:
http://amckay.crashvisuals.com/tuts/qne_glu1.avi
Quick run through glu, again not the best. But if you've never used glu or are curious about some of the more basic things this might be useful. Again I'm probably going to scrap it and record a propper tut.

http://amckay.crashvisuals.com/tuts/qne_sft.avi
Quick intro to scripting find target with the velocity channel to have particles 'morph'.

jigu
08-03-2005, 01:42 PM
thanks guys for info!!

well that bobo;s script tutorial is good.!! but if i want to break object in randowm chunks! not as a box shape particles!! which can be easily achived using shape operator!!
it;s good script tutorial !! very useful!!

but like we do in parray we can break objects in to randomed shape fragements!!
well i m not feeling well right now!! i do have really bad cold!! and weather here is very bad!! i will check those later when i will okei..

BTW allan i downloaded those tutorials!! there is good basic tutorial on glu3d.i think u can help me for this!!

here is i made for glu3d contest!! it;s still in WIP.(u r a judge of contest:D )
well i m not getting why that glu3d mesh is giving jerky motion. i mean u can see that tea suddenly shows bump effect on it.how can i solve that?or is this glu3d;s surface mesh bug?

download file:: http://jigu.actkid.com/final.mov ( 5MB)

sorry guys for taking this thread offtopic!!

amckay
08-03-2005, 04:17 PM
Oh yeah forgot I'm a judge for that ;)

That's weird, maybe animate the bounce and friction down ? or more adherance. I find playing with the scale and the samples can get you better results and faster sims. One thing I find is a bit of a cheat, but if I apply a mesher compound object to the glu, then make the glu source unrenderable, I can put stuff like relax etc. onto the glu surface (mesher) to make things a little smoother if they need to be. I was doing some fancy shamancy effects with pflow and glu for a music video and I had to have blood drip out of some window frames onto the ground and then change shapes into different symbols etc. And since I had multiple systems from different directions coming together I found doing some additive stuff on top can really help out.

jigu
08-03-2005, 04:37 PM
haha allan thanks for tip!!

it;s really fun to convert to glu3d mesh to mex mesh....now i can simply control its mesh..haha.....ohh yeah one thing i want to say that i used mesher to convert parray particles in mesh.than i can make collision between glu3d particles and parray chunks!!

ArtiZta
08-03-2005, 04:50 PM
Yes, relax helps a lot with glu3D's meshes, I used it on PWrapper on our last projects, simulating a pouring chocolate on a waffer. Using pflow & pwreapper really saved our time of calcullation. And there i noticed that using standard deflectors like sdeflector or just deflector is much faster then using udeflector with heavy mesh object asinged to it.

So far I think it might be faster if we used lowpoly mesh with udeflector for deflecting particles. Is there any other way to make udeflectors calculated faster with pflow Allan?

jigu
08-03-2005, 05:15 PM
hey allan thanks for that tip!! i just checked it that it;s working or not!! well i put the glu3d into mesher to build mesh. but it;s giving little wierd result according to particles motion.. i mean mesher isn;t building mesh properly!! have u tried it before?....

and yes i m still getting that surface problem!!
do u have any solution? coz i m not getting any reply on glu3d;s forum.so i m asking here.

EDIT:: see the viewport preview .....it;s showing some wierd result of glu3d surface...is it becoz of glu3d bug? or i did anything wrong?

http://jigu.actkid.com/_scene.avi ( 2MB)


and here wierd result with mesher object!!

http://jigu.actkid.com/mesher.avi

anyone has solution?

amckay
08-04-2005, 03:56 AM
guys can you do me a favour and email 3daliens guys if you do anything in production with glu or pwrapper? They're desperate for pr material and pwrapper isn't choice but still it'd be great if they had the option to show that material in their gallery etc. the life of glu3d lies in your hands :)

udeflectors are slow, but if you use simple objects, rather than complicated ones build proxy objects for the deflectors, they'll be a lot faster. I use deflectors wherever I can get away with it and udeflectors when absolutely necessary. Sometimes I have both in there and turn them on and off at will so that way I can work quickly and then when it comes to rendering I switch to a more accurate mesh collision type.

rule of thumb with mesher and pwrapper, it captures what you're doing in the viewport not at rendering time (it's just how pwrapper's been coded) so do whatever you do in the viewport not set it to have high detail at render time etc. also make sure the coords are [0,0,0] so it's positioned right. And make sure your pwrapper is in the viewport and not hidden, just make it not renderable, otherwise it'll probably not ever update. lemme know if you're still having problems.

perhaps with that preview avi the weird freaking out you might want to adjust the 'thickness' on the particle system, or else adjust the surface tension so it doesn't contract too much when away from other particles, but ideally maybe more particles can help here too.

as with the mesher yeah that's weird, I don't think that's any of the above rules I mentioned (although DO follow them if you haven't already) it looks like a mesh issue, what are you doing to the mesher? looks like you've done something to it that's caused it to reorder it's verts. Feel free to send me the max file (amckay@allanmckay.com) and I'll take a look.

-Allan

jigu
08-04-2005, 04:44 AM
hey thanks allan!! i think problem is regarding to glu3d particles. i used 10 LOD, default 5.0 thickness for particles. now i increased the LOD of particles to 20 to use more particles.

and yes about mesher i know that mesher needs to be align as same oriention as it;s subobject oriention.

but still i will look at it.i think i have to use pwrapper and put those glu3d particles to in it.than i can use mesher object.

well right now i m want to still do one effort:scream: before i give file 2 u. and i m sure i can finish before 15th august.

amckay
08-04-2005, 07:24 AM
Haven't used it yet but the guys at alien3d did a 'ghost particles' option where you can create instances of your particles and offset them, right now they're just complete mirrors, but it means you can fill the gap a bit more when necessary.

We were working on the idea of having them as smart particles that interpolate between the other particles so they allow you to fake more dense amounts of particles. Although right now they're working on speeding it up and reworking the core.

amckay
08-04-2005, 08:05 PM
does anyone have any good reference of flak fire? gotta do a bunch for a ww2 game cinematic - so far only found grainy bad pics on the net

jlelievre
08-04-2005, 08:15 PM
Best site I have found in years, called ThoughtEquity (http://www.thoughtequity.com). Has some of the best reference I have found to date. Here's something that might interest you; I just did a quick search for "bullet tracers."

WWII gunners (http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/237175_0016.do)

hope this helps

g8ff
08-04-2005, 09:26 PM
You can also try the "V for Victory" series that NBC did during WWII. It's a 6 dvd bundle I believe, but its got lots of great aerial footage of bombing runs, fighter support type missions over Germany that have lots of flak in them.

-Geoff

MystikGotan
08-04-2005, 10:23 PM
Band of Brothers - Episode 2. Has got some great looking flak fire. Anyway I'm kind of a WWII buff so maybe I can tell you a bit more... There are several types of FLAK, 20mm, 40mm and 88 (the feared 88). With 20 and 40mm FLAK fire you'll just see a lot of traces which I just keyframe in combustion, and the explosion itself is like a gunshot.

http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel-afb/1223050224155428g.jpg

This is a very famous picture. Big explosions as you see, these were really big shells traveling faster than the speed of sound 1 km a second).

Actually Call of Duty gives a fair good representation of FLAK (the tracers I mean). Maybe check out some of the traces they have in the trailers on www.callofduty.com.

Some reference on Day of Days (Band of Brothers) stalled on my server...

Unfortunately I can't make screenshots from the DVD but if you need some other reference I'll be glad to help you out, got tons of books and documantaires.

Gotan

jigu
08-05-2005, 06:58 AM
hey allan thanks a lot for tips!!

mesher works for me!! actually glu3d mesh isn;t still building proper mesh!!
so i got throught this way!!

i frist converted glu3dparticles to surface mesh using pwrapper. than i added pwrapper to mesher compound object.so now i can add relax modifier on it. and i got really nice result!!

currently i m rendering whole scenes which is 100 frames long actually.but i rendered the whole scene in 800 frames length using Video post in 3ds max.:) (Matrix Bullete time cam included!!hehe)
now judge me for contest!!..... lol.

PS:: anyone knows how to make good tea material!! right now my material looks like chocolate milk shake!!

here r the screenshots!!
[img=http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/931/bloom7iv.th.jpg] (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bloom7iv.jpg)
[img=http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2841/bloom13bd.th.jpg] (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bloom13bd.jpg)

Neejoh
08-05-2005, 09:09 AM
hey allan thanks a lot for tips!!

[..]

PS:: anyone knows how to make good tea material!! right now my material looks like chocolate milk shake!!

here r the screenshots!!
[img=http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/931/bloom7iv.th.jpg] (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bloom7iv.jpg)
[img=http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2841/bloom13bd.th.jpg] (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bloom13bd.jpg)
Just make it like a water material, but with a mix between a brown and orange color I guess? Tons of material tutorials about water for tons of renderers on google :)

amckay
08-05-2005, 06:52 PM
thanks guys

gonna vomit


don't ever drink with me if you ever have the chance


........... really gonna vomit now..... kill me

Steve Green
08-05-2005, 06:54 PM
Think of it as a great opportunity to study fluid simulation...

- Steve

amckay
08-05-2005, 07:10 PM
yeah with chunky rigid bodies
....
holy shit I feel crap.

!! !! ! ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! ! !!

....

kill me

..

Joel Hooks
08-05-2005, 08:46 PM
time for a bloody mary ;)

tuomasj
08-05-2005, 09:29 PM
don't ever drink with me if you ever have the chance


I've seen a rap battle between particle guy and a nightclub bouncer... :) I really don't know which one was the winner... Next time I definetly have a videocam

I really gotta check that glu out, if it is as good as you say. I hope your tutorials will be online when I have some spare time.

amckay
08-05-2005, 10:54 PM
holy shit I was rapping? hah geeez - blame iilka and his damn vodka shots : )
I have to wipe finland and all witnesses out of my memory banks hehe
I miss that place as small as it is, say hi to Yarik and the gang

I put up a crappy glu tut I posted a page back... I'll maybe do more this weekend, trying to juggle a music video and two game cinematics on top of man in tights right now so it's keeping me pretty busy

jigu
08-06-2005, 03:25 AM
yeah with chunky rigid bodies
....
holy shit I feel crap.

!! !! ! ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! ! !!

....

kill me

..

damn my english!! what r u guys talking about i m not getting?
what does it mean by "crap"? does my animation looks too simple?(may be)........

or u guys have fun at laughing on me?:rolleyes:

ArtiZta
08-06-2005, 05:54 AM
Hahaha... are you feeling better now Allan?..
or still have the fluid with chunky rigid bodies ;)
or want another shot?... "one for the road?" :)

Btw, Allan, I've seen the screenshot of pflow tools box#3 at orbaz, have you had a chance to try it out?... damn looks scary & really interesting...

Cryptite
08-06-2005, 07:05 AM
Heh, hey allan, I too have to do flak for a ww2 movie i'm working on. Actually, I already did it but had to redo after a crash. I have a PFlow setup somewhere of flak. I'm curious on how you plan on doing it? I thought mine was pretty nifty... :)

Edit: I captured sequential images when I watched and screencapped from Band of Brothers (Episode 2) so i could have some reference for flak. I strung these together for you, allan, to make a quick .mov file of one of the flak bursts. The framerate is of course increased so your best bet is to manually scrub the movie in quicktime as you watch it so you can see each frame. Enjoy!, and I hope this helps :)

FlakRef (http://cryptite.f2o.org/images/flakref.mov)(226kb)

amckay
08-06-2005, 06:34 PM
Hah yeah feeling okay... going out again tonight, second last weekend in Canada so will have to double my efforts.

BS3 is looking kickass, makes me all warm and fuzzy inside :) haven't had much time to use it right now, busy as hell. But it's very cool.

Cryptite - thanks mate. Yeah I won't be doing anything too complex, there's like 9 flak birsts and one that hits a plane that's about it. I'll do a simple set up and have it spawn multiple bursts - might script lights to turn on and off on each burst, but nothing too big. Gotta do a bucketload of explosions though, big bridge and a pearl harbour'esk 'follow the bomb down to the target' camera shot, should be interesting.

Thanks again for the ref cryp.

Neejoh
08-06-2005, 08:54 PM
Got any tips on Glu3d and scale? Just tried a little something with reactor and thought it would be fun to add some fluids to the scene. Now I've got a problem with scaling it all down because of the reactor scene... When I added the Glu3d objects I ended up with waaaaaaay to much particles :P

But when you build a scene with little objects (for example) you'll end up with 10 particle, which won't look cool because of the low particle count.
When you build a scene with large objects, you'll get "the allan effect" when you'll start drinking and wait until it's finished :P

How to find a way so it still looks cool, but you don't have to study your stomach fluids the next morning? Just trial and error I guess?

Cryptite
08-07-2005, 08:02 AM
Allan: I myself have been trying to rig some lights to turn on and off regarding explosions and muzzle flashes for an ep3 opening space battle fx test of mine. I was wondering if you might could help me out over on the orbaz forums? My thread about it is here (http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=323).

feldy
08-07-2005, 06:17 PM
Heres a copy of my current reel i used the google video thing they reencoded it and some of it looks like crap now but anyways any thoughts would be cool.



http://video.google.com/videopreviewbig?q=%22demo+reel%22+playable%3Atrue&time=0&page=1&docid=8435002767265202146&urlcreated=1123432271&chan=Uploaded&prog=demo+reel&date=Thu+Jun+23+2005+at+11%3A25+PM+PDT

Neejoh
08-07-2005, 10:40 PM
Sweet! That reel looks amazing!
Got two little points of criticism I can give you.

In the shot with the oceanview the lightning doesn't fit the picture. Somehow it looks like the sun should be bright and visible on that horizon, not behind some clouds. At the moment the reflection of the lighting in the water looks to strong (or something, you get the idea...)

The second part is probably something I don't get because of the google encoding ;) There is a shot where you filmed a building at night, but I've got no idea what I should see...

Overall it looks pretty cool! What's your background? This looks more that just someone with a hobby ;)

amckay
08-07-2005, 11:00 PM
Cool work mate nice reel. google plays back a bit sluggish

neejoh - personally I'd just shift the light into position and then out of position again after the explosion rather than turn it on and off etc.
But it wouldn't be too hard to turn them on and off. animating it and offsetting the animation would be a nightmare. I'd say the way to do it is to have your script say if particlenew (have your particles switch to a new event which triggers it) then (have all your lights all in an array) and run a distance test so if the lights near that new particle then to turn it on then either tell it then to turn off after 4 frames or whatever, or else have the particles be in that event for four frames or whatever you want then go to a new event which does the same thing but turns it off, and either shift the particles through a sendto back to the original event or leave them there. that's a hackish way but should work... I'm too hungover to be much more help today sorry.

amckay
08-07-2005, 11:27 PM
Hey guys, I've been really out of the loop with aura, been stuck on other fluids projects that conflict a little bit so have kept away from it. But what's the deal with it right now? Are there still public betas of it available that don't expire or anything?

SoLiTuDe
08-08-2005, 02:21 AM
Allan, from what I remember the aura beta won't work anymore. If you do get one, it will either have expired, or will expire.

http://www.chaosgroup.com/aura

"aura is currently running a closed public beta. If you are interested in testing it - send us an e-mail to aura@chaosgroup.com (mail:aura@chaosgroup.com) with information about yourself or your company."

Being who you are, i'm sure they'd hook you up...

ArtiZta
08-08-2005, 02:48 AM
Yep, if i got it as an unknown person to the public, i believe you will get it in a flash.
Nothing to pay, it's still free but closed, and it's up to them will they reply or not.
Have go..

cheers.

jigu
08-08-2005, 05:34 AM
hey i can;t download the reel..

well guys here is my final animation of glu3d contest test.

http://jigu.actkid.com/jigu_glu3d_final.mov

i hope u will like it!!

amckay
08-08-2005, 05:42 AM
yeah, like I said I'm on a few betas for other fluid apps so as request from the authors I've kept away from aura although wanted to check it out for production on something right now as it has a few features which I was quite interested in taking advantage of.

Sweet thanks for the info.

SoLiTuDe
08-08-2005, 06:09 AM
allan, wanna hook us up with some info on the betas you're testing? they have a website or something to gawk at?

ArtiZta
08-08-2005, 12:44 PM
Ok, I'm back with questions :). Need a help with some tips & trick, suggestions on new project. The task is to make a plastic bottle of liquid soap all of a sudden turn into floating water/liquid.

So far the techique i was trying was using pflow with pwrapper. Using position object operator as a emiter which kinda shapes the actual bottle (of course is going to be composed with the actual bottle)

Now I'm finding a problem on how to make the liquid move in more grouped motion, so it doesn't burst much. More into thick splashes of water. So far I used wind to make it move more random, and drag to keep the movement slower, also tried reversed keep a part operator which usually tends to pull the particles together but I get too strong paticle crossings... so i end up confused enough.. can anyone help or suggest anything pls. :)

thanks before...

amckay
08-08-2005, 03:38 PM
naw dude everythings tight as, the day anything gets announced I might be able to say a peep but aside from the standard stuff like pflow box sets most of the tools I'm testing are beyond top secret ; )

artiza you're trying to do liquid? thought of glu?

Rodney_O
08-08-2005, 04:33 PM
Hi guys,

First post..... Woo Hoo :)

I was wondering weather someone could help me with a project i am working on.

I'm trying to get particles to run all over a character, Like bugs swarming there prey. I've done a quick test with pflow and i can get the particles to follow the shape of the mesh but they seem to be sitting to far away.
I have my speed by surface operator set to parallel to surface but the particles still won't sit on the mesh.

Am i doing something wrong here??

Any help would be much appreciated.

btw - this thread rocks!!

g8ff
08-08-2005, 05:51 PM
It will be tough to get the particles sitting right on an animated surface without either intersection or floating, which is what you are describing. If you can, get ahold of Oleg's Pflow Tools Box#1, which has the lock/bond operator. This will get the job done for sure.

Neejoh
08-08-2005, 06:15 PM
@Allan: He's using Pwrapper, so it has got Glu3d written all over it :P

@ArtiZta: Maybe you could use a secondary emitter with less particles that you can use as a guide for the Keep Apart operator (with the negative value, like you said). This way the "fill" particles won't be attracted to each other, but to the other system. I think that will give the idea of a "grouped motion".

feldy
08-08-2005, 07:48 PM
thanks for the comments that night building shot was just added rain. I hope the red at the start wasent all blown out or two dark. It does that some times.

amckay
08-08-2005, 09:58 PM
neejoh no no, pwrapper is glu's metaballs mesh for use with pflow rather than using blobmesh etc. daniel ferrera and I bitched too much to jesus and satni to release it by itself cause it's so much faster than anything else for max

amckay
08-08-2005, 10:01 PM
http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/attack_fguy.mov is just a simple crappy test I did where I wanted to have a person able to run and bugs chase after them and crawl up their body etc. so this test is pretty crummy, have later versions of the rnd I did back in Australia.

Is that what you're after? If you wait a week I'll give you the scene when I get home, or else basically it's lock bonds and distance/deflectors that tell the particles to switch to different lockbonds, that's the really simple version of it.

Tak Tak
08-08-2005, 10:09 PM
Hi,

Do you guys have any idea how to animate flying butterfly crowd with PFlow? I don't know how I can create noizy up and down motion... I want to create nice meadow where butterflys are flying. Mood is important no accuracy.

Any kind of help would be nice. Thanks.

finalight
08-09-2005, 12:40 AM
How about a wind force, strength 0, but with a little turbulence? Not enough to throw them off their path direction, but enough to randomize their flight.

ArtiZta
08-09-2005, 09:29 AM
Yes, pwrapper is glu3D's blobmesh thingy. Love it. It's a mazing how they did it to work so fast in max and it works great when it comes to pflow makes floating liquid so easy. That's why I'm trying to make this animation using pflow & pwrapper.

I believe what you meant Allan, is to try using the actual glu3D instead, right? So it becomes a real dynamic liquid simulation. I'll be trying that in a few moments. Hope it doesn't hang my system :)

ok, will update later, thanks guys. Any other suggestions are still welcome :)

cheers

jigu
08-09-2005, 02:48 PM
well artiza position the glu3d particles(there is option in glu3d particle) on bottle.then do the glu3d simulation it will give u good result.

to fill whole object with particles u should have closed object.