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PixelShader
01-08-2004, 03:46 AM
Saw it first on CGNetworks.com!

http://www.cgnetworks.com/story.php?story_id=1878

http://www.cgnetworks.com/press_releases/2004_1/trendwatch/title.jpg

TrendWatch's market research has revealed that more studios are using Mac workstations today (11% more than a year ago). Macs are used in a larger number of smaller studios while PCs dominate in larger studios and many studios use both platforms. 39% of U.S. FX/dynamic media studios use Apple computers as their primary system for pipeline/production workstations. Trendwatch also estimates that 20% of the U.S. studios are using Linux render nodes.

Valkyrien
01-08-2004, 04:14 AM
and this is really news to anyone?:)

SuperMax
01-08-2004, 10:30 AM
Boooooooooooooo


my 2 cents ;)

Lockstar
01-08-2004, 10:32 AM
YaaaaaaaaaaHoooooooooo

My 20p :)

fxgogo
01-08-2004, 12:25 PM
I want to know if that 11% is a gain on their previous percentage (something I would assume is the case) or a 11% gain of the 100% available?

As for the reasons, I think Apple have made some really sexy hardware, which makes even me, who has never used one, want one. Unfortunately my budget does not allow it.

On the flip side, many of my mac friends have said how they will probably not buy another mac when it comes to upgrading, simply cause they are sick of paying more for less power.

Jockomo
01-08-2004, 04:15 PM
Your headline is misleading.
It can easily be assumed to mean "More Macs are used than any other platform" which is false. According to the article 39% of studios are using macs. The Mac BS propaganda is getting old guys, your gonna turn more people off than encourage them if you keep it up.

flipnap
01-08-2004, 04:38 PM
Jockomo, the headline could also mean "more macs are being used for visul productions".. oh wait, that is what it says... you shouldnt take a straightforward post and twist it into your own assumption, then attack someone for it.. this article, and post, clearly and openly states that more studios are using macs than before.. no where does it say "most studios have more macs than PC's"... Im sorry, but I just dont see any attempt at, in your own words "Mac BS propaganda" here..

dvornik
01-08-2004, 06:58 PM
Considering Apple's heavyhanded business practices it's not surprising. I think it should be illegal for hardware companies to buy software companies whose products run on competitors' hardware.

What Apple is doing (buying and killing software that runs on PC) is absolutely reprehensible.

flipnap
01-08-2004, 07:04 PM
I agree totally.. they should just steal someone elses ideas and incorporate it right into their operating system, lie about it in federal court, and squash any other competitor that deosnt have enough money to battle it legally.. thats really the way it should be.. that way it would all be fair.

dvornik
01-08-2004, 07:06 PM
I don't have any kind words for Microsoft monopolistic practices either. But what Apple is doing in this case is not in consumers' interests whatsoever.

chadtheartist
01-08-2004, 07:15 PM
I think this thread should be locked before a Mac/PC flame war starts up again.

DePingus
01-08-2004, 07:26 PM
I would bet a great deal of that percentage has to be Shake users. :cry:

But never fear...DF is awsome.

dvornik
01-08-2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by chadtheartist
I think this thread should be locked before a Mac/PC flame war starts up again. Wait a minute... Both the introduction of the G5 and Apple aquisition of software companies are important facts for the industry, not just flamewar.

chadtheartist
01-08-2004, 07:52 PM
Well, from what I've heard the number of Shake Windows licenses was low. But that doesn't really matter. Your previous statement just seemed to hold contempt towards Apple for their Purchase of Nothing Real, and then killing off a small section of it's user base. If anything, it was Nothing Real who betrayed their customers by selling out to Apple.

I think it's way to easy to just point a finger at Apple, Microsoft, etc. and calling them out on their entire business practice. Making broad statements against Apple, or Microsoft for that matter, just comes across as being indignant. Now if there were facts, or a more sound statement for your claim, then that would be a different story.

I'm just tired of most Apple related threads somehow turning into a PC/Mac debate.

flipnap
01-08-2004, 07:57 PM
yeah dont lock it BEFORE something happens.. but yeah, i mean this is important stuff.. I dunno, i get mixed feelings.. I do have sympathy for their plight (the pc shake user).. I think the entire industry is in a weird state right now. I also think its hard to understand the goings on about companies and their acquisitions/sales unless you really know whats up.. Companies get in trouble or just greedy.. I mean sometimes companies that go under, dont actually get swallowed - so to speak.. They sell out, hurting the customer base, employees, etc.. (an im not specifically talking shake here) Business is weird.. Like the "Disney/eisner thing" everybody ramps up with the hate, and I do feel bad for whats happning, but who put this guy in charge? theres always more things to blame but I guess we only have 1 finger to point (or stick up:eek: )

Pumuckle
01-08-2004, 08:06 PM
MAC's are evil, BUT they do some things better than pc's

dvornik
01-08-2004, 08:08 PM
Well, there' also the aquisition of Spruce with their DVD Maestro (main competitior to DVD Studio Pro). And you know, stuff I don't know much about... Emagic, Prismo Graphic and so on. Also consider the pricing of Shake for Linux. Enough to make anyone nervous considering all the rumors about further aquisitions.

flipnap
01-08-2004, 08:19 PM
MAC's are evil
so are trolls


Personally, im reAALLLY interseted to see whats going to happen with SGI .. and also alias..

eevilmouse
01-08-2004, 09:03 PM
What softwer has Mac bought up then Squashed?? My Biggest beef with mac has always been Lack of Software to choose from, As preformace wise they are on par (sometimes better) than a PC. In fact I bought a computer 6 months ago, and the 2 ONLY reasons I didnt buy a Mac, was ONE I needed to Run 3D Studio Max (though after Seeing Maya I may Change that Prefrence) and I play on PC based EQ servers (Crack addict I know.. oh well) Almost seems silly, but considering 3D is what I do most the time, it was a valid reason.

I personally think this is a good thing, Even if you Hate Mac's. The reason being.. till Microsoft has some heat on it from valid compitiion, it will bend you over any way it can, and you HAVE to like it. If macs get to the point that they are pushing PCs for Market share then they cant do all the stuff you hate about them, they will feel the pressure and shape up.

dvornik
01-08-2004, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by flipnap
Personally, im reAALLLY interseted to see whats going to happen with SGI .. and also alias.. ... and discreet...

I don't mind macs. But as I don't like an OS monopoly I don't want to be forced into buying certain hardware cause competing software for different platforms was eliminated.

eevilmouse we just mentioned the software that was squashed. I don't want to see Maya for PC being twice more expensive and one release behind a Mac version. And I don't want 3ds max to disappear.

Then again "Sony Vegas Video" doesn't inspire much optimism either...

chadtheartist
01-08-2004, 10:57 PM
Dvorak, you do realize the Shake was $10,000 dollars for Linux, Irix, and Windows before Apple acquired it, don't you? All Apple did was drop the price of the Mac OS X version $5,000 ($7,000 dollars if you own Maya 4.5 or higher on the Mac or Windows), and even offered a dual Mac license trade for the Windows users. So I don't think Apple just blatantly shut out the Windows users without giving them some viable options.

dvornik
01-09-2004, 12:43 AM
Well, it's their strategy. To force people into buying their hardware by manipulating the software market. Personally I want to see fair competition in all markets - hardware, OS and applications. It doesn't make me a Microsoft apologist or an Apple hater.

Saurus
01-09-2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by eevilmouse
I personally think this is a good thing, Even if you Hate Mac's. The reason being.. till Microsoft has some heat on it from valid compitiion, it will bend you over any way it can, and you HAVE to like it. If macs get to the point that they are pushing PCs for Market share then they cant do all the stuff you hate about them, they will feel the pressure and shape up.

Actually I think its PC that are pushing Mac to be more competitive. Without PC, Mac users would paying premium price for Macs. With the introductory of Mac clones years ago people had an option of buying machines other than Mac; unfortunately, Apple didn’t like competitions so they shut them down. If you ever look at Apple’s advertising there is always reference to PC, while PC’s advertising, anything in comparison to Apple (other than the Ipod, but that’s another story), is almost none existent. I wouldn’t want to get stuck with a company who doesn’t give a s**t about their user because they know the people who use their product have no option. Bring on Linux!

I hope both PC and Apple world can live a long life, because for consumers sake, it keeps the quality up and the price down. Long live compitition!


Originally posted by chadtheartist
Dvorak, you do realize the Shake was $10,000 dollars for Linux, Irix, and Windows before Apple acquired it, don't you? All Apple did was drop the price of the Mac OS X version $5,000 ($7,000 dollars if you own Maya 4.5 or higher on the Mac or Windows), and even offered a dual Mac license trade for the Windows users. So I don't think Apple just blatantly shut out the Windows users without giving them some viable options

Pure marketing. I don’t think Apple was trying to be nice here. It’s about getting more market share. Is there anything wrong with it, from a marketing point of view…nope. It sucks for consumer. Is Apple the only company doing it? Nope. Window does it, your cable network does it, your phone company does it… If given a chance, any company will do it. This is why it picks me when people accuse Window of being the evil company when probably companies they themselves are very fond of does it to.

Saurus

Saurus
01-09-2004, 01:11 AM
dvornik ... i totally agree with u.

quid
01-09-2004, 08:17 AM
Just wait until Apple buys Alias!!!

Nah I actually have no idea how much truth there is in that rumor that's floating around these days. It does seem to make sense to me though, given that they want a pro 3D app of their own and that they own Shake already, it would also seem to rule out XSI (because of DS) 3ds (because of the Comb, Flame etc.) and Lightwave (because of VT 3).

And really is doesn't really matter too much if you like Macs or PCs we will all benefit from increased competition. Just look at what it's done for professional 3D apps. Can you imagine if there was only 3D app out there? We'd be stuck with 80's tech still. And I don't think that Apple will cut off its PC end of any software it buys if there is a sizable pc user base. It would loose too much rev doing so and would see a lot of the app's users switch to other software like XSI (which is really looking good these days) rather than dumping all of their hardware.

Even though I never, never use Apple hardware, I still cheer for them and I want them to put the heat on Microsoft and the PC industry.

truedreamzz
01-09-2004, 08:18 AM
anyways what do you guys think is the most feasable solution here??

MAC/PC??

Run Windows/Linux, I personally find PC to be more affordable and scalable.
Do you agree??

vintagetone
01-09-2004, 02:42 PM
The G5 Macs are cool, as is the Linux underpinnings. But at the moment, a few of the applications I use the have scripting capabilities on the PC version do not do so on the Mac.
:shrug:

wowdermonkey
01-09-2004, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by truedreamzz
anyways what do you guys think is the most feasable solution here??

MAC/PC??


Windows/Linux right now is the only solution that works for off the shelf software. But the problem is that you can't do everything you want to in either Windows or Linux alone. All sorts of problems with the two: Sometimes you want the power of Linux (i.e. ease of network rendering, scripting, command line) but sometimes you need the application support of Windows (i.e. photoshop, combustion, 3D painting programs). Currently, Integrating the two becomes a nightmare for systems guys. Not to mention it's a big pain to support Linux because there is a lack of accountability for the software because of it's design model. But as I said, it's the only solution that works at the moment for most places.

The thing that is killing Mac for FX/Animation production is not so much the price, but rather the lack of 3D applications. Alias has ported only the Maya Complete package to Mac and has yet to release the Unlimited Package. Avid can't port XSI to the Mac until MainSoft (the porting tool that XSI is using to support multiple platforms) starts to support OSX. Apple is headed in the right direction and I feel that over the next year or two, Apple will fill that void left by SGI... Enterprise level support and a High quality product, however tempered by a reasonable pricing structure (the fatal flaw of SGI). You will eventually end up getting the Unix base and power with the application support of Windows. Steve Jobs has been working very hard to make Apple a powerhouse for graphics production. And he will continue to go that way by continuing to encourage or push companies to bring their software to the Mac Platform. But it's not there yet.

quid
01-09-2004, 06:15 PM
So true wowdermonkey.

Truedreamzz as far as scalability goes with macs it looks like it just got a whole lot easier and faster. Check this (http://www.apple.com/xserve/cluster/) out!

flipnap
01-09-2004, 06:20 PM
now THATS what i call a renderman farm... shmokes:drool:

plotz
01-09-2004, 06:49 PM
I think one of the big reasons Macs have taken off in the last year is the Unix based OS and the tight integration of media savy apps.

I don't work for a big studio, so I'm just speculating here, but...

I think the trend toward pre-viz and on-set efx previews have helped the Mac sales out.

With Adobe aps, Maya, FCP, and DVDSP on a reasonably powered Mac you have a very fast and flexible way to work in an almost "sketchy" fashion to get your ideas fleshed out and locked in for the client.

Most of my work in in Medium budget TV commercials and independant films. A few years ago the word "Pre-viz" and "EFX planning" weren't even in the lexicon. Today customers expect to be able to "see something" before they commit to an efx shot.

The ability to rough something out in maya, match it roughly into a shot in FCP and burn a DVD for the client to take to their clients is very valuable.

PixelInfected
01-14-2004, 02:12 AM
i use both platform in office, but actually we use prevalently win for 3d and compositing due a performance and price difference, we have dual g4 1.2 ghz and dual xeon 2.9 ghz, since the price of buing when we start is very similar, but under lightwave, maya and after effects, we see a lot of difference, win computer are since 3-4 times faster than mac.

in the last periodo, with new upgrades of system, mac be more stable and faster, but not enought.

actually we use mac for standard 2d graphics, and press working, or like cpus on renderfarm, but if apple and developer of software not change their direction, we migrate all on win platform.

from our experience seems that there are not many user under mac which do a good feedback and reason to do a better development.

Probably is the reason for a big migration for *nix system and win system.
i born under amiga and unix system, i don' like win, but actually under win i find most of software and resorce to work fine and with right cost, under mac i can' t do that....

i would like to find under mac tools stable and fast, if i find it, the cost is a second parameters, but actually are not avaible, than we use principally win for 3d, post pro.

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