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View Full Version : Game Art Comp 5: M_Luscombe: Janne from World Heroes


m_luscombe
01-08-2004, 12:28 AM
Hopefully I can pull through, here. I've never entered a contest on CGTalk, and I've never done a low-poly character. But I love the topic of the contest =)

Here's my choice: Janne from World Heroes (1, 2, Jet, Perfect).

http://www.neo-geo.com/reviews/special-reviews/wh3project/wh3k.gif

Everyone else was playing Street Fighter, but our college lounge only had World Heroes 2, so that's where I spent all my money in college (well, that and beer).

I'm not much for design sketches, hopefully I just jump into the modeling. This will be a learning experience for me =)

MeshNoob
01-09-2004, 02:55 PM
Well, let's get going here. It's been at least 12 hours already... : )

m_luscombe
01-09-2004, 10:14 PM
I know, dragging my feet on this one. Just wanted to hold my place while I get some other work done. I've got 2 contest entries to do this weekend, besides making the food-money. =)

Soon, though, very soon =)

Wisconsin.. wisconsin.. I know someone in cheese country ;)

m_luscombe
01-20-2004, 08:52 PM
Ack. Well, I've started, but I'm going way over on my poly count:

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_01.jpg

That's 652 polys, or 1166 tris.

Probably a bad idea to use a quarter of the budget on the head. That, and she doesn't really have a lot of character at the moment. Back to the drawing board.

m_luscombe
01-22-2004, 08:09 AM
Back from the drawing board. I started over from scratch. I like this look more, but I'm still way over on the poly count. I'll need to crunch quite a bit after the model is fleshed out. It's about 3k tris at the moment, but there are a lot of places it can be optimized.

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_02.jpg

I'll just keep having this conversation with myself until I'm finished =)

Renderman_XSI
01-22-2004, 08:36 AM
i really like this look also. only crit, is that the head is alittle too big. Also have a technical question about eyes for you.or anyone else whos readin this. Is it better to have the eyes as one mesh with the body,,or have seperate eyeballs?

Beaneh
01-22-2004, 12:47 PM
nice start, Only one crit, I know your gonna optimize it but get rid of a lot of polys in the armor (especially the edge) and use em for fingers/hands. good luck

mv
01-22-2004, 01:47 PM
nice start
-I prefer the proportions of the first head, you can give more personality with the texture

-you 've got way too much detail on the armor, the edges can be painted in the textures and you can do the smooth outline in opacity map instead of putting polygons there.

-overall proportions look strange too, like it was said the head looks too big.

Anyway keep it up, there's a lot of potential there!

m_luscombe
01-22-2004, 10:38 PM
Thanks for the crits, guys. Yeah, the head is a little big. I was aiming for a younger look, so the proportions are a little off. I may need to shrink the head near the end, but I'll wait till I get the hair and the rest of the body in.

Lots of optimization to do as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the model turns out to be 6k when I'm finished.

You think the hands are a little chunky? I was thinking they'd be locked in a fist around a sword most of the time, but I guess I should think about individual fingers for the off-hand.

Sorry to ask about rules here, but can we use Alpha maps? I was counting on a single Color map only (although, that seems a little low, considering the polycount. don't most new games use a 1024 or two 512 maps for characters?)

m_luscombe
01-22-2004, 10:41 PM
Also, I'm such a noob. For the shoulder pauldrons, I've modeled it with thickness (inside and outside). Can I use a double-sided material for that instead, and make it paper thin? Not sure I'd want to, but there are a lot of wasted polys underneath that nobody would see.

m_luscombe
01-23-2004, 10:29 AM
Just a quickie update:

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_03.jpg

I did end up shrinking the head, as suggested.

mv
01-23-2004, 03:56 PM
for now the proportions look a bit off; can you say what style you're heading to ?
In games 2 sided materials are a bit no-no; you should model the polies on the 2 sides. But here, I don't think you need to model them for the shoulder plates; if it's transparent inside, we won't really see it.
Also, post your wires, it will be easier to help you for the optim .
Keep it up!

YerEvilTwin
01-23-2004, 06:40 PM
her rib cage seems too small and high. I also think her face needs to be longer. Her thigh is also just as big as her calf, make thigh larger. Her breasts are to low. The butt in profile seems to small. Fix the elbow. Now you're good to go.

m_luscombe
01-27-2004, 08:27 AM
I really don't know what "style" I'm going for, I'm just kind of winging this. The original Janne was supposed to be based on Joan of Arc, but looks like a playboy bimbo for some reason. I'm aiming for an 18-20-ish woman, with little or no training (essentially unmuscled). Not quite realism, but not far off.

Barring any big boo-boo's anyone can spot, lets say I'm finished with the charater modeling (sans weapon).

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_04.jpg

She's 6336 tris right now. Ideally, I need to chop about 2000 tris off, to leave room for the weapon. Any ideas where to start? I'm pretty green, I'm sure all kinds of areas jump out at the trained eyes here =)

EVIL
01-27-2004, 09:33 AM
Looks to much like the original IMO

m_luscombe
01-27-2004, 09:46 AM
What were you hoping for; flippers and a coconut brassiere? It's based on the game character, it does deviate some, and it's not based on an existing 3d model.

I'll be adding some grit and war experience, and probably make her look the zealot part, but it's not a 180 degree about face.

If it makes a difference, this is my take on Bowser, the goompa king =)

Zieroth
01-27-2004, 10:09 AM
You can take out quite a bit from the shoulder and chest armour pieces. Maybe even the trim going around the pieces. Since you're in such a need for polies to remove, you don't need to have those pieces so smooth curved. Any geometry that can't be seen (eg. scalp, insides of armour if any, back of neck) can either be removed or drastically lowered. At the top of the thigh, there's a narrow section of polies going around it. That's probably not needed, either. Also, anything that doesn't add much or anything to the silhouette can be removed or lowered. Face might even be able to be lowered. Depends on how much detail you want paid to it.

I think the reason she looks like a bimbo is because of the wavy hair. The body build also adds to that, but you were going for that.

Dargon
01-27-2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by EVIL
Looks to much like the original IMO

I agree. Try a new spin, maybe evil her up like the Siegfried -> Nightmare change in SoulReaver...

As for optimization, there's a lot that can be done. Remember that the polys you put in are more about the silhouette than the details. That's what the textures are for. So the rige on her chestplate, needs only to be very subtle, if there at all, because it can be painted in.

That also goes for the ridge on her shin pads, the wrinkles in the cloth, and her head band.

Soft and hard edges (or smoothing groups if in Max) can make very simple objects look round. Those shoulder pads look to be around 500-600 tris each. You could easily bring those down to 100-150, just by merging verts in the base area. Keep the edge with the same curvature, but reduce the middle as much as you can.

I would also give her a bit more bulk in her arms, shoulders and legs, to bring them more in line with the torso. If you're going for an out-of-her-league-thing with her oversized armour, go for it in a bigger way, and once you have rigged her, I think a beaten-sown pose, like she can barely lift her armour, let alone her sword, would work really well.

Just my 2 (or so) bits. Keep it up!
;)

m_luscombe
01-27-2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Dargon
I agree. Try a new spin, maybe evil her up like the Siegfried -> Nightmare change in SoulReaver...

Heh, I think that's Soul Calibur =)

The "too heavy to lift" sword idea is great, though. I'll keep that in mind.

No one seems to like the direction this is going. Sorry about that. Hopefully the textures make it a little more stand-out, but I'm really just getting familiar with the methodology. This IS my first low-poly game model =)

Anywho, here's the optimized version. It went a lot quicker than I thought it would I guess I had 2000 extra polys in there =)

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_05.jpg

It's at 4393 tris now. I'll probably have to fiddle a bit, depending on how heavy the sword ends up being. Now for that itty-bitty little texture map =(

proudclod
01-28-2004, 01:40 AM
looks really nice, but you got wasted polys all over the place! the body has a lot of poly's it does not need, and on a second note, her arms are too thin! No female strongress is gonna have arms that skinny.... :)

m_luscombe
01-28-2004, 02:40 AM
and on a second note, her arms are too thin! No female strongress is gonna have arms that skinny

If you read the thread, she's a teenager, not a warrior. She's based on Joan of Arc, who wasn't a soldier. Were she actually in a videogame, I'd think that most of her moves would be "acts of god", where some ethereal power controlled her sword or inflicted plagues on her enemies. Someone suggested that the "beauty-shot" be of her struggling to lift her sword. I like that idea.

but you got wasted polys all over the place! the body has a lot of poly's it does not need

By all means, point them out! I have no clue what I'm doing here. I essentially just modeled like I always do for high-poly stuff, and went on a weld-fest to get it under 4500. I'm going to take another strip or two out of the chest, primarily for the sword, and possibly to add some detail to the hands. Other than that, it's under the poly requirements for the challenge, so I feel like I'm alright.

If you see some glaring errors, please point them out. I'm winging it here.

m_luscombe
01-29-2004, 10:16 PM
Here's the UV layout:

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_uv.gif

What a pain in the a**.

And, just for fun, here's the 3d version of the model =)

Click me! (http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne/default.asp)

Once the texture is done, I'll post a 3D textured version as well =)

m_luscombe
01-31-2004, 06:23 AM
Just a quick update as I texture. I'm working at 1024x1024, and I'll size down at the end.

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_texture_test.jpg

That UV layout was poor. I sized a few things down and used up more of the texture space for the head.

andrewley
01-31-2004, 06:01 PM
Id turn down the dirtyness of the texture. She looks like shes just done a jackass poo stunt.

This is going well though generally - keep it up

Neil
02-01-2004, 07:21 PM
I think the hair texture will be a big factor in the coolness of the model.

m_luscombe
02-13-2004, 07:21 AM
Ugh. I had hoped this would go quicker. Vacation cut into my play time, and the hair took a bloody age.

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_06.jpg

I've got my fingers crossed that I can get done in time to enter the contest.

m_luscombe
02-13-2004, 11:52 PM
Goody, no crits whatsover. I can assume it's perfect, then, and will win with flying colors ;)

Here's the "final". I'm still scouring for mistakes or strange mirroring problems, but this is pretty much what I'm sumbmitting.

Any thoughts? really?

http://www.maumedia.com/lw/janne_render_toony.jpg

DaemonMagus
02-14-2004, 12:09 AM
I don't like the black outline, like my fine arts teachers say, outlines flatten out an image. It loses the 3d quality. Other than that, maybe take away a little of the blood around her mouth, it makes her look like a vampire. A normal person with blood on their face can just wipe it off.

m_luscombe
02-14-2004, 12:24 AM
Agreed. I'm not submiting that render, I just wanted a clean render that popped out from the background so I could spot errors.

Like that blood spot mirrored on her bum. Just caught that. Arg.

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