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View Full Version : Game Art Comp 5: Renderman_XSI : Link to the Past


Renderman_XSI
01-03-2004, 12:49 AM
I would like to start my WIP thread for the GameArt Comp #5. The software im going to use is none other than Softimage XSI 3.5.1.1. Here is the base character sketch up of Link from The Legend of Zelda.

It not done yet.

http://217.160.138.15/artists/Renderman_XSI/Link_01.jpg

CGmonkey
01-03-2004, 01:28 AM
Oh my that's badass!!!

Hmm.. I think there will be alot of Zelda entries this time around, just a hinch! ^_^

Great work so far!

Renderman_XSI
01-03-2004, 06:28 AM
badass?lol..its OK..thanks. Its not done, because i need to stylize it and add on the right arm , armour. Link in nature is left handed..but im gonna change it to right handed. He is gonna have a few weapon, like a lance, dual swords.

Its important to get the concept down before i start to model. up-date tomorrow. :)

Keiyentai
01-03-2004, 06:30 AM
Link is an Adult now yay! Finaly! lol. Looks awesome man. WHy change the left hand!!! Left handed people rule!! ( is left handed)

Erotic Fetus
01-03-2004, 03:13 PM
if you make link right handed, Shigeru's soul is gonna bleed.
i'm not joking. Link being left handed is a trademark like the Triforce is to the zelda franchise.

Renderman_XSI
01-04-2004, 01:33 AM
It's not set in stone ,weather the final link is left or right(having it right handed makes it easier for me to related to,when creating animation for him). I dont mean to be a torn in Miyamoto side..but Link really needs to lose the Robin Hood look and grow up.

here is a update of the sketch:

http://217.160.138.15/artists/Renderman_XSI/LINK_02.jpg


The sword is the sword of Light, but i have plan for another weapon, its a dual sword..you can use it to take out multiple enemies with ease, also you can connect the 2 sword into one unit..making a Lance(which well extend upon connection). If i have enough polygons in the end i'll use the Lance. The armour on the right arm is used in conjunction with weapons, the gems are different elemental gems you get thru the game. Typically, Link would bomb a HUGE rock to reveal a secret hole in the ground, not any more..the right arm armour has the power to destroy huge rocks,walls(that was cracks) and among other things a shield is stored in it(upon pressing the guard/shield buttons a shield would retract from the forearm area.

Traveling thru the land of Hyrule can be done by typical horse, asking for a ride, or using a dragon(which you must befriend).

some C&C on color and design would be nice. Im not dead set on Blue/Dark Blue.but green seems so cache. Armour on the leg is optional(depending on if i have enough polygon left). I pick un pure colors to give Link a gothic feel.

CGmonkey
01-04-2004, 04:20 AM
Isn't his legs a bit short?

Coming along nice!!! Link with armour.. How awesome isn't that!!! :D Nice!

Renderman_XSI
01-04-2004, 07:46 AM
OK..thanks i totally forgot to check the proportion as i was sketching..but where the boot start is not his kneecaps..for the most part he is proportional..for a elf heh :)

I think whats throwing the drawing off is that the leg armour, has a circle that indicates where the kneecap should be..please disregard that for now. The end of his fingers is where the kneecap is, which is normal for humans and elf alike..

Its about 6- 6.5 heads..but he DOES still look alittle short..probably because the boots are low cut..

I think i should start modeling!

Supervlieg
01-04-2004, 01:32 PM
Looks like a cool concept. I like the harnassed arm.
Will he also have his shield?

Renderman_XSI
01-05-2004, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by supervlieg
Will he also have his shield?

Yes, in my world Link has several shield that do different things. So "probably" going to use the Sword of Light and a Shield combo. depends on how many polygons i have left over.

i'll update in a few days, with some 3D stuff of his head.

late.

edit: for spelling errors.

Renderman_XSI
01-11-2004, 11:08 PM
This is my first game model i have ever done. not done yet..but some C&C is always welcome. I'll probably apply normal mapping to this model. Been working on this for 2 days, for a few hours aday.

http://217.160.138.15/artists/Renderman_XSI/LINK_04.jpg


EDIT: fixing some proportion as someone pointed out earlier. I'll update again tomorrow.

Gyzer
01-12-2004, 10:05 AM
I think the model is a good start, but u've got some probs. First off, he's way to boxy. You should never leave ur edges to be straight. They should all have a curve to them complimenting the contoure. Please post up some side and 3/4 view shots of the wire, cause at least from this view, he seems to be very flat on his front. I think that he's a good start thought.

Keep up the good work.

Renderman_XSI
01-19-2004, 02:08 AM
I gotta stress the point of me entering this contest, its more about getting to know XSI texture editor(unwraping UV) so its a texturing project. secondly i want to explore XSI real-time shaders(which i can apply to the armour and sword:)) Lastly, i if finish the texturing and all..i'll try to rig and skin him.

Here is an update of Link, C&C welcome! i have 400 Tris left in the budget, but im not sure what to do with them..any advice in this would really help me out.

http://217.160.138.15/artists/Renderman_XSI/LINK_05.jpg

Link is still alittle short, so i'll tweak the height right now. BTW i dont have any eyes modeled..i dont know if i should model them or use texture. the fingers need further tweaking.

Gyzer
01-19-2004, 02:49 AM
I understand that u want to concentrate on the textures for this guy, but a good texture on a crappy model doesn't look good. I'm not calling ur model crappy by any means, but for the sucsess on any model its 50% model and 50% texture.

Supervlieg
01-19-2004, 08:08 AM
Looking good sofar. Dont know what you're planning to do with the texture but here's what I think of the mesh.

>>I think you should optimize the upper and lower back, it uses too much poly's.

>>I think the head should be a bit bigger.

>>It's hard to see from this viewpoint but I would say the underarms need to be longer and the upper arms shorter.

>>Make his hands a bit bigger.

>>Optimize the back of his boots.

>>Use the extra poly's you saved for more detail in his face, I think he could do with some "real" eyes.

>>Its hard to judge from this angle but I'd say his torso is a bit too long. You can also fix this by making his legs longer.

Good luck!

Renderman_XSI
01-21-2004, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by supervlieg
Looking good sofar. Dont know what you're planning to do with the texture but here's what I think of the mesh.

>>I think you should optimize the upper and lower back, it uses too much poly's.

>>I think the head should be a bit bigger.

>>It's hard to see from this viewpoint but I would say the underarms need to be longer and the upper arms shorter.

>>Make his hands a bit bigger.

>>Optimize the back of his boots.

>>Use the extra poly's you saved for more detail in his face, I think he could do with some "real" eyes.

>>Its hard to judge from this angle but I'd say his torso is a bit too long. You can also fix this by making his legs longer.

Good luck!

thanks alot bro. i didnt notice some of the errors i had in my mesh until you pointed them out. needless to say i have fixed it(though i wont post any update of the mesh..low on webspace). But the real challenge is texturing..which is why i enter this contest!:D

I''ll update later/nexttime with the model textured. Good luck to everyone in the contest..hope many people well complete it. heh..i learn my lessson..never model a character without a character sheet ;)

Renderman_XSI
01-23-2004, 06:26 AM
got more room on the server now. need some C&C to improve the model


http://217.160.138.15/artists/Renderman_XSI/LINK_07.jpg


http://217.160.138.15/artists/Renderman_XSI/LINK_06.jpg

I'd like to make on final tweak to the mesh..and take it to texturing.

Gyzer
01-23-2004, 07:08 AM
Ok, go back and look at like my first post about him. MAKE HIM LESS BLOCKY. His sides are rounded, but his front isn't, its very flat. Also you need to make the edges flow, not leave them as streight lines. make them curve some. The head is looking good. But I'd check its proportions some though.

YerEvilTwin
01-23-2004, 07:03 PM
8000 tris. That will never be a game model. Where are your edge loops. Anatomy is all off. He is also very "cookie cutter" there is not much originality in him, besides that he lacks character. My best advice would to go back to the drawing board and rethink him. Your character is too predictable.

SammyB
01-23-2004, 11:05 PM
Hey YerEvilTwin, how about you look a bit closer next time before you smack someones model. It's 4500 tri's not 8000. Some of your comments are true, but try to back them up with examples, otherwise it's not much use to Renderman_XSI...

YerEvilTwin
01-24-2004, 01:27 AM
Still 4500 TRIS are still to many, besides he asked for C+C and thats what i gave him. It's rough, but it's honest.

Shishka
01-24-2004, 01:50 AM
4500 isn't too many for this contest, however. He's hit the contest limit, so he's just fine.

I *adore* that Master Sword. I like the character design, too. I'm looking forward to seeing the texture.

Renderman_XSI
01-24-2004, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by Shishka
4500 isn't too many for this contest, however. He's hit the contest limit, so he's just fine.

I *adore* that Master Sword. I like the character design, too. I'm looking forward to seeing the texture.

thanks for the comment, i might apply a real time shader for the sword blade and armour. I didnt make a character sheet..and im paying for it now..lol...ouch. 4500 tri is indeed average for today engine. by nextgeneration console, you can except 15,000-20,000 tri for character in PS3,XBOXnext,etc.

Its my first game model..and im newbie in XSI..so i dont know what the hell im doing!!

____________________________________________________


I guess a few people dont understand what C&C is..if you have a C&C let it be aleast be helpful in making my model better, saying he looks too flat or i need to redo the design..is ok.but its abit vague ;) You should at least point to more specific area. However i do agree the character design is alittle on the predictable side, but i wanted him to still look like Link,aside from the hair cut..armour, and him being right handed and not left..he is still Link. If you have any ideas for a better design, feel free to post it up..i'll be happy to look at them :D

Gyzer
01-24-2004, 06:41 AM
I'm sorry renderman, but ur kind of talking out of ur ass on the polly count for a character in a game engine NOW. I work in the unreal engine at my school with teachers who are currently and have worked in the industry. Unreal can do about 150,000 pollies in a scene. So if u want crappy backgrounds and great characters then yeah, u can put a 4500 polly character in there. But to keep it balanced without lagging out, around 2500 or 3000 is the way max I've seen lately.

When I build character models I try to shoot for around that 2500 to 3000 mark, and everyone else I know who models does the same for a game model.

Yes the "nextgen" consoles are supposted to do some crazy stuff, but I will belive it when I see it. Currently one of my teachers works at Rainbow Studios and he's even talked about ps3 specs with huge ass polly counts.

And also one thing I've noticed u haven't done is optimize. Your edge loops aren't good at all, and I've been saying that since my first post on this thread. If you don't exactly understand what I'm talking about, I'll post up some wire frames from an older character of mine.

Please, the one thing that makes someone look stupid is when they talk out of there ass. We all do it on occasion, but when u do, someone is liable to catch u, and this time it was me.

Keep up the work, u can only become better.

Renderman_XSI
01-24-2004, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Gyzer
I'm sorry renderman, but ur kind of talking out of ur ass on the polly count for a character in a game engine NOW. I work in the unreal engine at my school with teachers who are currently and have worked in the industry. Unreal can do about 150,000 pollies in a scene. So if u want crappy backgrounds and great characters then yeah, u can put a 4500 polly character in there. But to keep it balanced without lagging out, around 2500 or 3000 is the way max I've seen lately.

When I build character models I try to shoot for around that 2500 to 3000 mark, and everyone else I know who models does the same for a game model.

Yes the "nextgen" consoles are supposted to do some crazy stuff, but I will belive it when I see it. Currently one of my teachers works at Rainbow Studios and he's even talked about ps3 specs with huge ass polly counts.

And also one thing I've noticed u haven't done is optimize. Your edge loops aren't good at all, and I've been saying that since my first post on this thread. If you don't exactly understand what I'm talking about, I'll post up some wire frames from an older character of mine.

Please, the one thing that makes someone look stupid is when they talk out of there ass. We all do it on occasion, but when u do, someone is liable to catch u, and this time it was me.

Keep up the work, u can only become better.

Tell that to the folks at Valve where their main character poly counts are about 7500 Tris, there backgrounds arent crap either ;) Also take a look at KillZone. We could debate this until someone turns BLUE in the face..but this isnt the thread for it :)

Sure, if you really want to help me, post your edge loop example!

We are also working on our game engine, it would be more than able to handle 4500 tri for main character ;)

Gyzer
01-24-2004, 02:17 PM
Main character is one thing, but u said 4500 tris on average, not for the main character.

Yes Half-Life 2 does up the anty for pollies, but it isn't out yet and nothing using its engine is also out.

You are right we could argue this till we're blue in the face so this will be the last time I post about it.

But like I said, you haven't optimized ur mesh at all, fromt he screen shots u've posted.

I cannot put up a pic now (not enough time) but I will post one up in the next few days.

DreiGrasheir
01-24-2004, 02:51 PM
okay, since as you've said you''re new to low poly, theres some stuff you should know about it. Low poly is just that... low poly. the entire point is to get the basic shape... the texture takes care of the rest. The whole idea is to get the most out of every polygon you have.

-- if it doesn't define shape, either make it define shape or get rid of it. Basically the only thing you need out of a model is a silhouette. assign a solid color shader and turn off the lights in your scene, with wireframes on. if you see geometry that isn't doing anything, get rid of it.

-- if you see anywhere a row of 3 points that make virtually a straight line, you can probably get rid of the middle one (example marked in the shoudler of the back view).

-- For deformation pourposes, each deforming joint (elbow, knee, shoulder) should have 3 edge loops around it to be sure it will look okay when it bends.

-- edges such as on a belt or its buckle arent' necessarry unless it needs to be huge... that type of thing can be textured.

-- i dont know if its in XSI, but the geosphere gives the same effect as a sphere, but is way more poly efficient. It's a primitive in max, and you gan get a plugin for maya off Highend3d.com. you'll want to use that in a few places.

-- unless otherwise noted, lines i've higlighted can be removed unless you define some kind fo shape with them. Good luck.

http://www.3dgstudios.com/images/link.jpg

Renderman_XSI
01-24-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by DreiGrasheir
okay, since as you've said you''re new to low poly, theres some stuff you should know about it. Low poly is just that... low poly. the entire point is to get the basic shape... the texture takes care of the rest. The whole idea is to get the most out of every polygon you have.

-- if it doesn't define shape, either make it define shape or get rid of it. Basically the only thing you need out of a model is a silhouette. assign a solid color shader and turn off the lights in your scene, with wireframes on. if you see geometry that isn't doing anything, get rid of it.

-- if you see anywhere a row of 3 points that make virtually a straight line, you can probably get rid of the middle one (example marked in the shoudler of the back view).

-- For deformation pourposes, each deforming joint (elbow, knee, shoulder) should have 3 edge loops around it to be sure it will look okay when it bends.

-- edges such as on a belt or its buckle arent' necessarry unless it needs to be huge... that type of thing can be textured.

-- i dont know if its in XSI, but the geosphere gives the same effect as a sphere, but is way more poly efficient. It's a primitive in max, and you gan get a plugin for maya off Highend3d.com. you'll want to use that in a few places.

-- unless otherwise noted, lines i've higlighted can be removed unless you define some kind fo shape with them. Good luck.

http://www.3dgstudios.com/images/link.jpg

NOW THATS WHAT I CALL C&C :D Im going make some of the changes soon today. I think one of the problems about it being too flat was due to lack of preperation(no character sheet).

great C&C dude!!

YerEvilTwin
01-24-2004, 09:16 PM
These are two characters I modeled for the HL2 engine. Both of them fit under the 7500 limit, but that's not the point. Every poly and vert is contributing to the form and deformation. Game companies look for that. Look at the back of my man compared to yours. These charters might run in a super engine but most game compaies run charaters that are 500-1500 ploys each. If you can model the same link charater under 2300 polys then that would be better.

http://www.vitaminjay.com/images/man1.jpg

http://www.vitaminjay.com/images/man2.jpg

If you want to see more of our models we might have them running at chaosdawn.com

i could even e-mail you the meshes if you want.

Gyzer
01-24-2004, 09:54 PM
I couldn't have said it any better then that DreiGrasheir. I've really just had a lack of time to break it down so much.

I've been low polly modeling for awhile now, and I sometimes forget that it doesn't make sense to everyone out there.

Now those r some bad ass models YerEvilTwin. Very nice.

To address the "flatness" of his front, take some extended time looking at him in the side or right or left view ports. I sometimes only work off of a front sketch for a character, but as long as I concentrate on that side view, I can usually hit the side silouete of the character.

Renderman_XSI
01-26-2004, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by YerEvilTwin
These are two characters I modeled for the HL2 engine. Both of them fit under the 7500 limit, but that's not the point. Every poly and vert is contributing to the form and deformation. Game companies look for that. Look at the back of my man compared to yours. These charters might run in a super engine but most game compaies run charaters that are 500-1500 ploys each. If you can model the same link charater under 2300 polys then that would be better.


If you want to see more of our models we might have them running at chaosdawn.com

i could even e-mail you the meshes if you want.

thanks for posting up the pic! its says alot!! If its not too much to ask, can you post a pic of the unwrap UV of human character? Thats what im doing now...and its tough. any tips on good unwrapping habits would help also.

i reduce the amount of Tri's on Link, lose about 400 and still looks OK:) I just hope i can finish this before Feb deadline...:(

My model is not symmetrical..is this going to be a problem when texturing? the part im worried about is the face..

wanzai
01-26-2004, 11:18 AM
I guess it's a bit late for design inspirations, but I just came across this:

http://www.stonetowertemple.com/majora_onilink.jpg

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