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CGmonkey
01-02-2004, 07:02 PM
GAME ART COMPETITION #5

*edit* there are some small changes in the rules, you're allowed to use 4500 triangles and you must start a wip thread. Hope this doesn't make you angry >_<

*edit2* you're free to use spec maps too ^_^

THEME: Bring back an old-school pixel character to 3d!

Your goal is to take a pixel character and recreate it in 3d but without using existing design of the official 3d characters (i.e you can't just take the modelsheet from mario and model him, if you see Mario as a greasy plumber with a tomato-stained wife-beater then make him like that).
You can pick any character you want, it doesn't have to be a character that hasn't been done before or hasn't been turned in to 3d yet as long as you don't copy the design from the official 3d character.
You're allowed to exaggerate but the design should stay true to the character.

Here's some inspiration:
http://www.geocities.com/cyberfenrir/
http://www.angelfire.com/ga4/kickpot/
http://www.vgmuseum.com/forums/index.php

Good Examples are:
Greased up mario with tomato stained shirts or a realistic gothic Link.

RULES/GUIDELINES:
You content will be used for 3d realtime engines.

Models can not exceed 4500 faces (triangles NOT quads). Make efficient use of your faces and make them count.

Models can not use anymore than a single 512x512 32-bit TARGA texture sheet (or 4 256x256). Alpha-, bump-, normal- and spec maps are allowed.

I made the polycount fairly high to meet today standards. 4500 is well enough for any character.

SUBMISSIONS:
Okey for the sake of learning, you have to start a wip thread so everybody can watch your progress.

Game Art Comp 5: (Your Name) : (Old-School Character: Character name)

Example

Game Art Comp 5: (CgMonkey) : (Mario: Grease Mario)

Use that thread for all of your updates, and comments about your work. Others should feel free to post in said threads with comments, crits, questions, and advice. Any questions regarding the contest in general should be posted in THIS thread.

As the contest deadline approaches, I will create a thread titled "Game Art Comp 5 Submissions." It is here that you should submit all of your final work for judging, IN 1 POST. This will give everyone a chance to see all participant's work side-by-side. No comments or crits should be made in that thread, save that for people's individual threads.

DEADLINE
The contest begins as soon as you read this post. The deadline is February 13 - 15. I'm giving everyone the weekend to get their entries in so we can avoid late entries.

JUDGING
We need a few volunteers (4-10) to participate as judges. Once the deadline is reached, each judge will award a set # of points to the entries they like the most based on technical execution, and visual/franchise appeal. If you want to judge say so in this thread, the first 10 will be chosen.
Because the contest is so open ended... I guess judging will be mostly based on how clever/good the entries are. But I still want judges to think about the mesh construction, poly density/topology, UVW mapping, and texturing.
It's easy to pump polies into a character... but it's difficult to make very good use of the polies. The same goes for texturing.
So, if an entry looks like it could have been done with less polies than what the artist used... then they will be knocked points. The same goes with the texturing. You can often times get away with using less than a 512x512 texture sheet. If you're going to use a full 512x512 texture, try your best to make use of all that pixel data. The polies and texture size you use should be justified.

Judging will take place between Febrary 16 - Feabruary 21.

Perhaps it's a bit too much time but this will allow as many as possible to join the competition.


PRIZE
The winner of this competition will get to choose the subject and terms of the next competition!

LETS BEGIN! "EVERYONES A WINNER WITH GOOD CRITS!!"

Thanks SouL and happypants.. I borrowed big parts from your texts! ;)

Good luck and have fun everyone!

P.S Any issues are resolved in this thread, there's room for change in the rules!

Runefall
01-02-2004, 07:19 PM
How much liberty can we take when redesigning characters? I'd like to do Kid Icarus for the competition, but I want to do a Tech'ed up version. Is this allowable? Thanks in advance.

Nostradamus
01-02-2004, 11:17 PM
Would the deku tree count as a character?

another great site for inspiration :
http://tsgk.captainn.net/index.html

Renderman_XSI
01-03-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by CgMonkey
GAME ART COMPETITION #5

THEME: You content will be used for 3d realtime engines.

Models can not exceed 3000 faces (triangles NOT quads). Make efficient use of your faces and make them count.



Isnt 3000 faces alittle to low, since the modern Quake and HL2 engine ,spec for a character are around 5,000-7,000. depending on genre/character, 3000 might not be enough..can we bring it up to a modern standard.

"What is the polygon budget for models?


We target between 3000 polygons (i.e.: headcrabs) and 7500 polygons (i.e. Alyx, the Gman) for characters and monsters, depending on function and how many we hope to have on-screen simultaneously, and we have several stages of LOD (level of detail) models with drastically reduced polygon counts for when things get smaller in screen space (further away). We're targeting around 2000 polygons for our viewmodels, which of course do not LOD."

more polygons more detail character to be used for ingame cut scene(also better rigging/skinning results). Of course this doesnt excuse someone to misuses the polygon count. i.e. using 500 polygons on a can of soda.


I think you should require it that everyone who join the contest, to start a WIP. This would help generate more inspiration and let people see your work in progress(get help on your model,C&C amd such). I know we dont have any prize to offer now..but when the time comes, a WIP would be needed so no one is cheating(im not saying anyone is going to cheat).

what about real-time shader are they allowed? like HLSL,cg,DX9 shader. I ask because Link for the gamecube uses realtime cell shader.

I'll probably do a new version of Link(no more white tights! nintendo, time to mature and grow up)

Beroc-LOD
01-03-2004, 01:50 AM
How about effects? if we create a model which has special effects like fire or something like that, how should that be taken into account?

Renderman_XSI
01-03-2004, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Beroc-LOD
How about effects? if we create a model which has special effects like fire or something like that, how should that be taken into account?

Well this can be done with real-time shaders..given that its allowed. Or you can use the traditional technique.

Beaneh
01-03-2004, 02:14 AM
are you allowed to team up with someone? I thought teams were encouraged in earlier competitions.. cause I the crapiest texture artist ever..

CGmonkey
01-03-2004, 02:26 AM
Oh my oh my.. >_< Okey first off..

Runefall
Hmm.. it's a difficult question but I don't think you can, I'm sorry. You should stay true to the original design.

Nostradamus
Yes Deku Tree is a character :)

Renderman_XSI
Okey lets go up to 4,500 ? that's ALOT of polygon and you should be able to get fairly detailed mesh with that amount of polygons.

Beroc-LOD
Hmm.. Shaders.. Hm.. I don't know.. >_<
In that case it should be a shader that is accessable to everyone.

Beaneh
Yeah I know.. I deleted that part because of two reasons. One being that those who can't find a partner to team up with have less chance of winning and another one is that you could try and practice your weakness instead of give it to somebody else. ^_^

Beaneh
01-03-2004, 02:54 AM
ack.. guess ill pass than, no way to learn good texturing in 15 days ~_~

Renderman_XSI
01-03-2004, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by CgMonkey
Oh my oh my.. >_< Okey first off..

Runefall
Hmm.. it's a difficult question but I don't think you can, I'm sorry. You should stay true to the original design.

Nostradamus
Yes Deku Tree is a character :)

Renderman_XSI
Okey lets go up to 4,500 ? that's ALOT of polygon and you should be able to get fairly detailed mesh with that amount of polygons.

Beroc-LOD
Hmm.. Shaders.. Hm.. I don't know.. >_<
In that case it should be a shader that is accessable to everyone.

Beaneh
Yeah I know.. I deleted that part because of two reasons. One being that those who can't find a partner to team up with have less chance of winning and another one is that you could try and practice your weakness instead of give it to somebody else. ^_^

Sounds good at 4,500! add it to the officail thread. But i still strongly suggest that you make everyone, start a WIP thread..as i did( as far as i know..there is only 3 people in the contest so far..lol). so we can see how many people are actually in the contest..when judgement day comes..it wont be a surprise as to the number of contestants.

Dargon
01-03-2004, 03:55 PM
I'm not in, I don't need a translation of other people's ideas for my folio.

But I'll volunteer to Judge the challenge!

You can send all bribes by private message.

Geo_ru
01-03-2004, 09:00 PM
what about metal slug? its old enough?

http://g-e-o.narod.ru/mslug007.jpg
http://g-e-o.narod.ru/mslug007.gif

Supervlieg
01-03-2004, 10:37 PM
So I'm a bit confused right now. Is the poly limit 3000 or 4500 triangles?

edit: nevermind, just read the adjustments to the comp rules. Its a bit confusing because it still reads 3000 tri's in the post.

Renderman_XSI
01-03-2004, 11:53 PM
Beaneh, dont let the texturing job, stop you from entering the contest...in fact i dont even know how to texture..lol. I think i can learn it in a few days.

Geo_ru,

Its safe to say that, Metal Slug is allowed..sinces is a 2D game..never done in 3D afaik.

Xaint
01-05-2004, 12:14 AM
Why not using vertex counts instead of polygon count in the rules? This is what really matters, so it's about time for game artists to recognize this fact. This contest could (or should) be also a 'guide'.
I don't wish to explain the whole thing you probably know already, I'd just like to see the evolution. info:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112189&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

Renderman_XSI
01-05-2004, 02:52 AM
for me..as a artist i can't relate to vertex count..i mean i dont create base on vertex..i create base on polygon/tri. If someone tells me that my vertex budget is 5,000..its not really tangible to me. But if somoene tells me my polygon budget is 5,000..thats something tangible(something i can picture and keep track of easier).

Beaneh
01-05-2004, 12:34 PM
mind you 5000 vertices could be just 1 polygon or milions.. and I really don't see why vertex count would be more important than a poly count as it doesnt really slow down anything, no matter how many verts you use I always get the same FPS.. polys is what really slows stuff down, and it's also easier to keep track on your budget..

what that thread says is that vertices are used to store data, and Ive never heard of vertices affecting rendering preformance.. now im not really someone who knows a lot about this, but as I said earlier 5000 verts could be no polys at all or millions..

Here's something I tested a long time ago.. It's blender so you might not like it..
http://appolonius.mine.nu:8080/Beaneh/test.gif

now maybe im just saying a lot of stuff that isn't true or whatever, but I don't believe the ammount of vertices used is more important than a polygon count.. correct me if im wrong.. =\

AndyH
01-05-2004, 04:25 PM
Do you get frowned upon if you make the model exactly the same as the original sprite design?
Some people seem to be making the 3d version drastically different (such as the link one XSI did) - is this what everyones supposed to do?
I intend to create the sprite in 3d, and then compare them. Is that ok?

Also, Im working a lot faster than i thought - if I was up for it, could i do another character from a totally seporate game? would it be classed as the same entry or a seporate one?

thanks.

CGmonkey
01-05-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Andy H
Do you get frowned upon if you make the model exactly the same as the original sprite design?
Some people seem to be making the 3d version drastically different (such as the link one XSI did) - is this what everyones supposed to do?
I intend to create the sprite in 3d, and then compare them. Is that ok?

Also, Im working a lot faster than i thought - if I was up for it, could i do another character from a totally seporate game? would it be classed as the same entry or a seporate one?

thanks.

As the rules said.. You can exaggerate but it should stay true to the character. Meaning you can try to recreate an exact replica or you can make the 3d model how you see that character. Since pixel character often doesn't show any detail you have alot of room to play with.

Hmm you're only allowed to enter one model to the contest I'm afraid.. Otherwise it should be unfair to the others :/

Xaint
01-05-2004, 10:07 PM
I think a monthly challenge sub-forum would be good. This would make the general gameart forum clean.

Beaneh
01-05-2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Xaint
I think a monthly challenge sub-forum would be good. This would make the general gameart forum clean.
amen.

Renderman_XSI
01-06-2004, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by Andy H
Do you get frowned upon if you make the model exactly the same as the original sprite design?
Some people seem to be making the 3d version drastically different (such as the link one XSI did) - is this what everyones supposed to do?
I intend to create the sprite in 3d, and then compare them. Is that ok?

Also, Im working a lot faster than i thought - if I was up for it, could i do another character from a totally seporate game? would it be classed as the same entry or a seporate one?

thanks.

I made Link different because it would violate the rules of using pre-existing design;). But in the matters of a 2D sprite which havent been made into a 3D character, your open to sticking stricky to the sprite design, but at the same time your encouraged to stylishs it and bring it up-date as a 3D character. Due to the fact that the 2D sprite of that time, didnt even have enough details convey..which is good, give you a chances to add your own vision to the character. Hope that clears up the rules abit, which people at cgchat have misunderstood.

excuse me for the poor english.

Zieroth
01-06-2004, 07:07 AM
This is pretty off topic, but I really can't find the answers myself.

I knew previous game art comps had all the final submissions posted in a single thread. I can't seem to find it for comp #4. I found all the WIP threads, in the game art comp section of the challenge archives, but not the submissions thread. Can anyone post up a link, if there even was one?

Supervlieg
01-06-2004, 09:11 AM
here ya go
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=65642

Zieroth
01-06-2004, 09:24 AM
Damn. Wrong thing. Thanks alot, though, supervlieg.
I was talking about the Game Icons comp. Was it actually a comp? Did it finish at all?

Neil
01-06-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Xaint
I think a monthly challenge sub-forum would be good. This would make the general gameart forum clean.

Success and continual participation would justify a subforum most likely.

In regards to the questions about rules, i don't think there is any 1 person in charge. It's a community challenge, agreed upon by the community. CgMonkey took the initiative, but use your best judgement.
Everyone: feel free to answer questions and help each other out.

Seems like people are confused about what you can and can't do, and i had a feeling that would be come about with a 'redesign' subject. Let's hope for the best though, and hope that we get some fresh stuff.

Supervlieg
01-06-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Zieroth
Damn. Wrong thing. Thanks alot, though, supervlieg.
I was talking about the Game Icons comp. Was it actually a comp? Did it finish at all?

Yes it did actually. I came in third in that one :)
Try lookin in the challenge archive for it.

skello
01-06-2004, 08:01 PM
I think there should be a separate sub-forum for the challenge entries...too much of a hassle sifting through the current forum to find the entries.

Supervlieg
01-06-2004, 08:13 PM
its actually very easy when you click on "thread" to show the threads in alphabetical order. But I would agree on a seperate forum.

h0pesfall
01-07-2004, 07:10 PM
Models can not use anymore than a single 512x512 32-bit TARGA texture sheet (or 4 256x256). Alpha-, bump- and normal maps are allowed.

Can we use different 512x512 maps for alpha and bump, or do we have to chose between alpha and bump and use the alpha layer of the TGA for it to stay with a single image file.

Xaint
01-08-2004, 12:49 AM
The specularrity map is missing from the list... :) could come handy!

CGmonkey
01-08-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Xaint
The specularrity map is missing from the list... :) could come handy!

I thought about adding that but I decided not too since it's very uncommon in games today (am I wrong?) and it's not widely used around this forum from what I know. If I'm wrong please don't bash me because my ignorance ^_^

Originally posted by h0pesfall
Can we use different 512x512 maps for alpha and bump, or do we have to chose between alpha and bump and use the alpha layer of the TGA for it to stay with a single image file.

You can use seperate maps. (I wrote 'and' not 'or') ;)

Prs-Phil
01-08-2004, 11:33 AM
well actually "Knights of the Old Republic" uses spec maps. I think you should be allowed to use them for the experienced users :D

h0pesfall
01-08-2004, 07:36 PM
I probably won't use 'em (spec maps) but I wouldn't mind other people using em. But it's all up to monkey.

CGmonkey
01-08-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by h0pesfall
I probably won't use 'em (spec maps) but I wouldn't mind other people using em. But it's all up to monkey.

No it's up to you guys.. This is something that we all do. But yeah lets use spec maps then. You're free to use any for maps you want ^_^

Renderman_XSI
01-09-2004, 09:08 AM
i dont see any problem with people using spec map. Also looks like we got MANY contestant..we could use a sub-forum. Im glad to see many people entered the contest and hopes this trend continues for the next contest!

AndyH
01-09-2004, 09:27 AM
im not trying to be a martyr who wants to change all the rules, but is there anyway you will increase the texture size to 1024 X 1024 somewhere along the line? I know its a nice challenge, but its gonna be mighty hard trying to UV and texture everything to fit on a 512 sheet. Because were using high-poly, next gen models, itd be nice if we didnt have to stick to quake 2 era texture sizes. I think a lot of people will see the same way.

Renderman_XSI
01-09-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Andy H
im not trying to be a martyr who wants to change all the rules, but is there anyway you will increase the texture size to 1024 X 1024 somewhere along the line? I know its a nice challenge, but its gonna be mighty hard trying to UV and texture everything to fit on a 512 sheet. Because were using high-poly, next gen models, itd be nice if we didnt have to stick to quake 2 era texture sizes. I think a lot of people will see the same way.


yeah..i agree..the higher polygon with very low res texture doesnt look right. Also the other way around(low polygon character with high res texture map..just doesnt look right).

Im OK with the idea..what about others?

CGmonkey
01-09-2004, 12:16 PM
Whatcha say? bentllama?

wanzai
01-09-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Andy H
if we didnt have to stick to quake 2 era texture sizes.

Hey, 512˛ is a PS2 era format. ;)

Xaint
01-09-2004, 01:48 PM
512 sounds enough. You have to have some restrictions in gameart. Afterall it's Game-Art. This makes U to push it better and optimal. Gameart is like Tao - fining the balance.

Dargon
01-09-2004, 02:50 PM
256 is PS2 era
512 is XBox and Gamecube

512 is a nice high amount

Some of the best low-poly work I've ever seen was done with 512s (admitably 2 of them)

PUNISHER example (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89986)

Previous challenges have had very successful entries at this low of texture sizes.

I've had the chance to model a few game characters for PS2, and we had to stick to 64X64 for NPCs, and 128X128 for player characters. I got great results even from those low figures.

Game art is all about using very little to accomplish a lot.

CGmonkey
01-09-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Dargon
Game art is all about using very little to accomplish a lot.

Hallelujah! Pushing the polycount up to 4500 felt abit too much for me. But I think it will wield better resault ^_^

Anyway.. Lets stick with 512x512, shall we?

Neil
01-09-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Dargon
256 is PS2 era
512 is XBox and Gamecube

Thank you, someone knows what they're talking about.
1024 maps is nice, but just an excuse to just photgraphs and not zoom in and work in detail.

Supervlieg
01-09-2004, 03:34 PM
I think 512 is quite enough, it also is more of a challenge to work on the details on a pixel level. Which gives really teaches us to use the restricitions set by current hardware. Excluding the pc ofcourse.

Xaint
01-09-2004, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Dargon
Game art is all about using very little to accomplish a lot.

Yeah! :) Better than my definition.

TRyanD
01-10-2004, 10:08 AM
Sweet im gonna try to get in on this :P

DreiGrasheir
01-10-2004, 10:36 AM
personally i paint at 2x the size of texture required, then shrink it down. That way you can add all kinds of detail that would be extremely hard with the smaller resolution... plus you've got bigger tex's to show off if you need to do an out of game screenshot ;) i thought it would've been nice to try a higher texture size in this competition, since the models are a bit larger count than im used to doing. (what to do with all those polys.. heh..)

I also agree on the separate forum, but understand what was said about establishing the comps. I saw the onslaught of entries, and don't think it's really all that fair to those wanting to post regular game work.

vrapp
01-12-2004, 11:19 PM
Dargon: You know, that Punisher have two (2) 512 maps, not one.
There is a separate map used för the face, and one for the body... :)

Many PC games (I'm not talking consoles here) nowdays have higher than 512x512px textures.. it's nice to have the option, even if most gamers will not use the highest texture quality. :)

Dargon
01-13-2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by sysop
Dargon: You know, that Punisher have two (2) 512 maps, not one.
There is a separate map used för the face, and one for the body... :)

Many PC games (I'm not talking consoles here) nowdays have higher than 512x512px textures.. it's nice to have the option, even if most gamers will not use the highest texture quality. :)

Yeah, I admited that in my post.

My point was that one can create amazing results with way lower texture sizes.

Here's another example, this time, he says it's 2 X 256X256s, which is even less texture space than in the comp.

Bobo the Seal's latest WIP (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113636)

AndyH
01-14-2004, 10:09 PM
As absurd as it sounds, im nearly done with my submission!
In what form should it be submitted? 1 hi-res render? several poses in 1 image, default pose? action poses? wires? shaded? Should i include my UVs and texture map? Its all pretty vague at the moment.
Im not going to submit just yet, I just want to get it out the way and work on something else. In my opinion, spending a month and a half on 1 games character is way too much time. Most games companies get less than a week.

Cheers.

My Games comp entry (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113335&perpage=15&pagenumber=3)

Xaint
01-14-2004, 10:30 PM
Andy H: You're right! But, some of us work on the comp in our freetime, if we have some.

AndyH
01-14-2004, 10:45 PM
Hehe - Tell me about it - Since the redundancies at my last job, ive had nowt else to do but work on this! Thats why its progressing so quickly!

One other question Mr Monkey - Are renders allowed? My character has alpha mapped hair, and a viewport snapshot looks horrible if i turn on the hardware alpha mapping - the cursed maya transparency sorting problem ruins it. If i did do a render, i would obviously refrain from using effects, fancy lights, shadows, motion blur etc.... Unless im allowed to...?

CGmonkey
01-15-2004, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Andy H
One other question Mr Monkey - Are renders allowed? My character has alpha mapped hair, and a viewport snapshot looks horrible if i turn on the hardware alpha mapping - the cursed maya transparency sorting problem ruins it. If i did do a render, i would obviously refrain from using effects, fancy lights, shadows, motion blur etc.... Unless im allowed to...?

Of course you're allowed ONE beauty render (basic lighting). I was thiking of writing in the submission thread about what images are nescessary. I was thinking about the uvmap (watermarked), one beauty render, one wireframe and one flatshaded. If you want to make them into one picture I guess that's fine. What do you other guys say about this? :)

Originally posted by Andy H In my opinion, spending a month and a half on 1 games character is way too much time. Most games companies get less than a week.

Sorry but as Xaint said, most of the guys here need that much time since they often work on lunchbreaks and stuff ;)

AndyH
01-15-2004, 10:26 AM
Sounds good.
Could the wire and shaded renders be in a diffrent pose to the 'beauty render' or do they have to stay the same?
Also, If i want to add a simple prop for my character to hold, would i be able to use another (small!) map for it, or does the contents of the entire scene have to be in the same set of UVs?
Sorry to be a pain, but i want to get it rendered and out the way.

CGmonkey
01-15-2004, 02:30 PM
I don't know about props...
In the beauty render props are allowed but not in the other shots as the judges will not judge your prop only model it should work fine to use props in the beauty render.
What do you other guys say? O_o

Xaint
01-15-2004, 10:33 PM
I agrre with you CgMonkey. For the beauty render the props could be allowed and they could use a separate texture and object (not in the 4500 polycount), if the props are not part of the character. I.e. Gilius Thunderhead's Axe is part of the character, since he's using only that weapon and you cannot separate those two, but for Double Dragon or Axel, weapons are not part of the characters' design.

Is it necessary to rig and pose the character? If yes it's okay, just asking.

CgMonkey: "the uvmap (watermarked)" What do you mean exactly?

CGmonkey
01-16-2004, 06:23 AM
Well I only suggested the watermark but since stealing is becoming more and more usual in this business I guess you wanna put a small grey text over it or something. Only if you want that is :)

AndyH
01-16-2004, 10:37 AM
Ok.... just to clarify a few things.....
So for this 'beauty render' i presume we can use shadows, dramatic lighting and props?
What about the regular renders? Do they have to be viewport captures? or can simple, no frills renders be used. I have a problem with hardware alphas in maya, so if i did viewport caps, it would look damn shoddy.
Are multiple poses for the standard shots allowed too?
Thanks.

Dargon
01-16-2004, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by CgMonkey
Well I only suggested the watermark but since stealing is becoming more and more usual in this business I guess you wanna put a small grey text over it or something. Only if you want that is :)

I'll assume then, that you're referring to the texture sheet...

I would of assumed UV map was the wireframe unwrapping of your UVs that you use as reference to paint your textures.

That's one thing about this industry that gets kinda annoying, no common language.

For example, in our company, it's commonly referred to as a texture sheet, and texturing. For modding, I would guess that's where UVmap comes from, and it's skinning. But really, skinning should be putting the skeleton in, as geometry on a skeleton is referred to as a skin. Then again, in Softimage3D, to skin was to create a surface from a series of curves, much like Maya's loft.

It's all so confusing. I'm gonna go model some backgrounds.

CGmonkey
01-16-2004, 03:43 PM
Dargon - sorry sorry.. don't get so aggressive. Sure I can refer to it as "Texture sheets".

Andy H - Seriously dude I don't know ^_^ I would like some feedback from other users aswell. I'm not a dictator on this.

I haven't given this a thought at all but.. The judges will judge your model. If you feel that the judges can judge the model better if you render your model, go nuts! ^_^
The beauty render is only eyecandy so go nuts with it, but don't overdo and make a complete highpoly scene with fluid-dynamics in the background. Make your model focus of attention.

Dieblein
01-23-2004, 08:30 PM
Why is the creation of the thread limited to this little timeframe?

I mean..
Why shouldn´t people who joined later have a chance of also trying their best even if they missed the entry date?!

Dargon
01-26-2004, 11:13 AM
Dieblein """Why is the creation of the thread limited to this little timeframe?

I mean..
Why shouldn´t people who joined later have a chance of also trying their best even if they missed the entry date?!"""

There will be more contests!
:)

Join the next one, or start in this one anyway! Really, it should take only a few days to finish one, it's only as long of a timeline as it is, for those who have full-time jobs as well...

go on, give it a go!

EVIL
01-26-2004, 01:48 PM
can I still join the competition? I found out about this a bit late :)

Dargon
01-26-2004, 02:11 PM
Go for it, just follow the guidelines!
:)

Dieblein
01-27-2004, 04:38 PM
Oh I can still join this one?!

I clearly missunderstood the guidelines..

CGmonkey
01-27-2004, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Dieblein
Oh I can still join this one?!

I clearly missunderstood the guidelines..

Sorry for any confusion.. :/

Neil
02-03-2004, 03:42 PM
Just curious, what made people think they COULDN'T join at any time?

The rules just state a deadline, who cares when you start it.

Neil
02-03-2004, 03:43 PM
We just don't want you using a model you start a year ago, or a model that is already finished.

modeling-man
02-05-2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by h0pesfall
Can we use different 512x512 maps for alpha and bump, or do we have to chose between alpha and bump and use the alpha layer of the TGA for it to stay with a single image file.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can use seperate maps. (I wrote 'and' not 'or') ;)

I just wanted to make sure that the 512 x 512 map is just for the diffuse map. Hence the bump/spec/alpha are allowed as well but do not add into the final 512x512 count.

The last cgchat challenge was setup this way which made sense since you could put bump/spec/alpha into alpha channels. Eventhough 3DS Max doesn't read multiple alpha channels.:P

so in other words:
1 512x512 diffuse
1 512x512 bump
1 512x512 spec
1 512x512 alpha

I'm using all these types of maps for my model and would like to just clarify this so I don't wind up having to totally repaint my textures. 1 256x256 diffuse for a 4500 polygon model is kinda ridiculous.

thanks!
B

CGmonkey
02-05-2004, 10:09 AM
Modelling_man - Correct!

modeling-man
02-05-2004, 03:07 PM
awesome.
thanks again
B

Neil
02-11-2004, 05:02 AM
I suggest there be a new submission thread for all the entries.

and each person uploads ONE image there of their final piece.
Just show the wire model and fully rendered model in the same image file.

happosai311
02-11-2004, 06:30 AM
I would think/hope that we would be allowed to upload more than 1 pic.
I was thinking of maybe...

-1 or 2 posed beauty renders. (Lights, Shadows, etc) (It took awhile to rig my character so I would like to show it posed)

-Standard front, side, back Viewport screen grab of the model: all gray, with wires, & in the originally modeled pose (before rigging & posing)

-Same front, side, back angles in the originally modeled pose. But this time rendered with the textures (no shadows or fancy lighting)

-The Texture sheet with the UV's on a slightly transparent layer


I think all those should help the judges. Since they will be judging design, poly placement, texture sheet usage, etc.

modeling-man
02-11-2004, 07:33 AM
sounds good to me
I'm not sure what kind of time I'm gonna have seeing as Valentines Day is this weekend...so I think anymore stuff and I'd be up a creek:P
B

Dargon
02-11-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by happosai311
I would think/hope that we would be allowed to upload more than 1 pic.
I was thinking of maybe...

-1 or 2 posed beauty renders. (Lights, Shadows, etc) (It took awhile to rig my character so I would like to show it posed)

-Standard front, side, back Viewport screen grab of the model: all gray, with wires, & in the originally modeled pose (before rigging & posing)

-Same front, side, back angles in the originally modeled pose. But this time rendered with the textures (no shadows or fancy lighting)

-The Texture sheet with the UV's on a slightly transparent layer


I think all those should help the judges. Since they will be judging design, poly placement, texture sheet usage, etc.

Actually, I think it would be better if you make a montage of all of these features in 1 image. I'd hate to scroll through pages of just one entry.

There's a lot of people in this contest, and if they all upload 5-10 1600X1200 images, that's a whole hellava lot of bandwidth to view the thread.

I say 1 1280X1024 image for the submissions page, with a link posted to your personal thread if you have more you want to show.

I'd also like to see the original sprite, and concept sketch incorporated into that 1280X1024.

Neil
02-11-2004, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Dargon
Actually, I think it would be better if you make a montage of all of these features in 1 image. I'd hate to scroll through pages of just one entry.

There's a lot of people in this contest, and if they all upload 5-10 1600X1200 images, that's a whole hellava lot of bandwidth to view the thread.

I say 1 1280X1024 image for the submissions page, with a link posted to your personal thread if you have more you want to show.

I'd also like to see the original sprite, and concept sketch incorporated into that 1280X1024.

EXACTLY!! That is why i said 1 image. Not to limit you, but so that you don't get the jerks that keep posting 50 images of different angles and different zooms and different crops. Just compile it into 1 image.
Think about it this way, you gotta sell yourself on a demo reel in a few minutes, you gotta sell a movie sometimes based on teh cover, so sell your model based on a few images. Make them good, and just think about what you wanna show off before hand.

I don't like seeing John Doe's render on page 1 and another one on page 5, etc.. then you lose track.

Garma
02-11-2004, 08:52 PM
seems to me you have a hard time with this one CgMonkey, regarding all the problems that come up with this thread. best of luck with this one, looking forward to the entries.

I won't join in since I never did gameart, wanna improve some other skills first :)

Neil
02-11-2004, 08:55 PM
I asked for a front page plug, because i'm tired of seeing only speed sessions plugged on there, when this is way cooler, IMO. So nice to see Leigh comply! :)

Congrats on getting chose Happo.

Lekku
02-11-2004, 09:28 PM
Let me know if you still need judges for the contest(s).

KingMob
02-11-2004, 09:32 PM
yeah i think these should be plugged for sure... Its a great community activity/tons of fun

Tho you guys did plug this one a bit late eh? 4 days left or something hehe.

simonjaap
02-11-2004, 09:32 PM
If there still is a vacency for a judge i would like to be one, mayb im not skilled enough though to be a jugde, but i know a good 3d model when i see it and i can see how good it has been made, please let me know if there are more judges needed... :) this sounds as a cool challenge, im lookin forward to the models that will be send in ;)

daraand
02-11-2004, 11:17 PM
lol 5 pages :Z I'll be a judge as well if there's room :D my creditionals are: a character modeler for a mod :Z www.planetunreal.com/hackerz . About it really but who knows :)

modeling-man
02-12-2004, 01:24 AM
EXACTLY!! That is why i said 1 image. Not to limit you, but so that you don't get the jerks that keep posting 50 images of different angles and different zooms and different crops. Just compile it into 1 image.
Think about it this way, you gotta sell yourself on a demo reel in a few minutes, you gotta sell a movie sometimes based on teh cover, so sell your model based on a few images. Make them good, and just think about what you wanna show off before hand.

I don't like seeing John Doe's render on page 1 and another one on page 5, etc.. then you lose track.

I agree I think one beauty shot is enough. However, specific links for concept/wireframe/default lit should be considered and not all slammed into one 1024x1024. Honestly, I don't have the time to make some collage trying to balance all my time and energy into a 1024x1024 pic. I'd prefer making one kick ass picture at that size so people can see my model not 4x5 shots of my model all crammed together. I could use the extra time to rig and pose and render out the perfect shot. Then linking IN THE SAME POST to DIRECT links not to a long ass WIP thread.

Something like this:

[beauty shot]

LINKS:
concept
wireframe
default lit
misc...animation...showing off of bumps/specs, alternate poses, etc

This I think offers the best approach. The content is all in one post, you get the one large pic per entry, and links for the stuff that shows the process.

just my 2 cents.
B

JA-forreal
02-12-2004, 01:52 AM
I hope someone remembers Abuse the Platform scrolling game. A bot, a main character or creature from that game would be neat.

This should be very interesting.

eoin
02-12-2004, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Dargon

Game art is all about using very little to accomplish a lot.

Well said Dragon, actually lots of good points being made here.

As far as texture pages go, I'd work double the size at least of the final texture page (1024x1024)
If you nail the UV's you shouldn't lose to much detail reducing to 512.
Its all about "even texture resolution" too, making sure the lower leg for instance has the same resolution as the forearm.

I think this is nearly the main error that makes work look shabby, ..when you see an ultra sharp head texture with a blurry body texture the eye doesn't like it even if your not sure what you dont like, ..a good example of work done right would be metal gear, same res all over (face body) and it works cause the eye sees "one" mesh just like a nice painting.
(for this reason the final version of the punisher is 1 256x256 for head and 1 512x512 body so as to get that even pixel ratio look to whole mesh)

its so tempting to give the face or some nice detail on the model loads of space on the texture page but if it isn't even it will glare..

anyway just thoguht I'd add my two spud's worth :)

I would have LOVED to do this challenge (had one or two characters picked out that no ones thought of yet!)
Definitely get evolved next time

-Eoin

Jekkle
02-12-2004, 07:46 AM
Hmm, im not one to really be critisizing etc, but i thought of an idea, i dont know how practical it is,

what if each contestant made a small animation, sort of like a flash menu, whereb y its one loaded thing, but u click on the wireframe text n it changes to the wireframe of the pic, instead of loading up thousands,

or as some do make a 360 rotation, i mean sure, its gonna be larger then ur jpeg standardly, but when u put together a million jpegs its going to be nothing in comparison to a lil flash animation

and yes i do realise not everyone can use flash, but i think itd be pretty easy for the most part, u just need to assign the wireframe pic to load when u click on the wireframe text, and so on and so fourth, anyways, thats all i got to say

i hope my idea doesnt sound to crazy, im just giving my thoughts, i think your all wonderful and the competition entries look awesome!!

CGmonkey
02-12-2004, 10:40 AM
Okey. *phew* :)

So the judges are atm:

¤ Neil
¤ CGmonkey
¤ bentllama
¤ Lekku
¤ agentJ

Garma - haha yeah, remind me never to take on this kind of thing again. It's been a great load of fun though :)

Well.. I don't know how to solve this. Personally I think we don't have that many contestants to fill 5 pages. :) I'll make a compromise.

PiPS
02-12-2004, 03:25 PM
Hi !

I have old "dpaint" pictures in my homepage, simply for your inspirations!

http://www.oeilclair.net/galleries.html

Tchô...

simonjaap
02-12-2004, 05:34 PM
So the judges are atm:

¤ Neil
¤ CGmonkey
¤ bentllama
¤ Lekku
¤ agentJ

k i wont be a judge then ;)

CGmonkey
02-12-2004, 05:41 PM
$imon - Do you want to be a judge?

simonjaap
02-12-2004, 05:55 PM
heh, if ya need another one i would really like to be one :D i just cant get tired of lookin at 3d images ;) so if theres still room for a judge; please :)

(btw how much do i get payed for this? 8) (lol) )

CGmonkey
02-12-2004, 07:04 PM
Haha.. Well then I'll add you to the submission thread.

NicoDN
02-12-2004, 11:17 PM
I'm really worried don't having found the time to achieved my character... But I've see a lot of great works ! Good luck everybody ( especially the guy FF4 vilain, it is cool ! ) :)

Mananetwork
02-13-2004, 11:38 AM
I can't wait for this contest to get started! I wanna see all the old 8bit characters come to life in 3d. Someone do Secret of Mana!! PLEASE!!

Neil
02-13-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Mananetwork
I can't wait for this contest to get started! I wanna see all the old 8bit characters come to life in 3d. Someone do Secret of Mana!! PLEASE!!

Well since it's over in a few days, most liekly if it hasn't been chosen yet, i doubt you'll see it. When it got front page plugged, i didn't know that there were people that DIDN'T know it was going on. I thought it was just more of a reminder that people can expect to see some cool stuff posted in a few days.

I guess next time, we should get some plugs earlier. :( haha

Lekku
02-13-2004, 10:04 PM
I can't wait to see the final pieces!!!! This is exciting!

Xaint
02-16-2004, 10:59 AM
I had no time to finish mine, due to unexpected workload. thumbsdown!

Mananetwork
02-16-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Neil
Well since it's over in a few days, most liekly if it hasn't been chosen yet, i doubt you'll see it. When it got front page plugged, i didn't know that there were people that DIDN'T know it was going on. I thought it was just more of a reminder that people can expect to see some cool stuff posted in a few days.

I guess next time, we should get some plugs earlier. :( haha

So true.. I think they should post everything which is related to contests on the frontpage. So my question still needs to be answered.. DID ANYBODY DO SECRET OF MANA!!?? *drool*

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