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andre_alder
01-02-2004, 01:18 PM
Hi guys,

Since Apple bought Shake, how many studios or fx houses will keep Shake as a composite app? Would not be better change the software for another one (maybe for NUKE) than change the workstations and servers for Apple?
I would like to know that, since a I would like to learn a node based composed.
Any idea or advice?

AD

hardimage
01-02-2004, 01:44 PM
did you try digital fusion?

j00ey
01-02-2004, 03:25 PM
shake also runs under linux, so no absolute need to change over to mac

the studio where i work though is testing nuke, because linux licenses [for shake] are a lot more expensive than mac ones ,which is an attempt presumably by apple to make people switch hardware, and the film industry has moved over to linux largely to avoid being tied to a proprietry system.

having said that they've also just moved over to shake 3.

there's also a linux app called cinepaint [ex - film gimp] which i've read is being used by some facilities, but i don't know much about it other than that.

j00ey

mikemarcus
01-05-2004, 05:07 PM
almost all film compositing in london is done with shake on linux. I think that there is a general opinion that nuke is not quite mature enough yet and needs to add some more functionality before it will be a serious option.

cinepaint (film gimp) is not a compositing package but a lunux copy of photoshop which will work with 16 bit files. It is a bit crap.

X3M
01-05-2004, 06:13 PM
Guys, don't forget that Nuke comes from Digital Domain. They use it all the time, and till not so long ago it was for in house use only. So, far I like Shake's interface little more than Nuke's. But what Nuke got is true 3D compositing space, Shake does not.

beaker
01-05-2004, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by X3M
Guys, don't forget that Nuke comes from Digital Domain. They use it all the time, and till not so long ago it was for in house use only. So, far I like Shake's interface little more than Nuke's. But what Nuke got is true 3D compositing space, Shake does not.
3d is not a requirement of a compositor, though shake does have 3d space in it (limited to the move3d node). I have used Shake on many films and have had no problems not having 3d. If I need 3d I just use maya. Most of my 3d work really couldn't be done in a compositor anyways (matmoving, 3d set extentions, etc...,). The biggest thing I use 3d in a compositor for is pan and tile work which is easy to do with the move3d node.

3d lights and full 3d space will probably make it into future versions of shake, so I wouldn't worry if you really need those tools in the future.

alex.ongaro
01-05-2004, 10:29 PM
Cinepaint is mainly a paint system that support frame sequences (photoshop doesn't). It's not so bad for basic tasks.

FKMaster
01-06-2004, 12:24 AM
i love shake :thumbsup: but i think shake is dying.....i donīt believe thereīll be a shake4 version for linux...:shrug:
nuke is a very good replacement....:hmm:

Paul Moran
01-06-2004, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by FKMaster
i love shake :thumbsup: but i think shake is dying.....i donīt believe thereīll be a shake4 version for linux...:shrug:
nuke is a very good replacement....:hmm:

Why would you say shake is dying ?? ... surely apple not producing a future version of shake for the *nix platform would be financial suicide ?

Look forward to hearing your thoughts

Cheers mate

Paul

VFXGEEK
01-06-2004, 06:07 AM
I totally disagree that shake is "Dying." Look all the compositing work on the entire trilogy on The Lord of The Rings. Shake was used in maybe 95% of all the VFX shots.

And YES! they used Inferno & Flame on certain shots, but not because shake was lacking in any toolset , but mainly because speed constraint. In the other hand look at the work from the last two Matrix films. From what I’ve heard, Sony Pictures Image works and Tippet Studios were the biggest vfx contributors to both films and their compositing department relies on Shake.

I agree that shake needs a bit of work (3d compositing, better painting tools, and a few others) but it does not mean that apple is not working on any of these features, if they are not; then I'll see my self in a NUKE seat in the near future.

Paul Moran
01-06-2004, 09:43 AM
why is it always shake or NUKE ... ?? What happened to the other desktop beast: Digital Fusion ? What is it about fusion that people seem to not like or disregard ?

Personally I think fusion is an awesome app...and im sure it will get a 3D environment before long too ;)

It already has strong paint tools ... and its proven in LOTS of features also ...

If shake was to go down the gurgler (WHICH WOULD NEVER HAPPEN) ... surely fusion would become king ?

Cheers again

Paul

FKMaster
01-06-2004, 11:37 AM
i think apple plans some exclusive software for the G5-maschines......but really....it does not matter
for me .....i like both....shake or nuke....what ever wins.....
fusion is not bad..... i had done same projects with it .....but the same feature in shake are more powerful and the workflow is simple the best.... :bounce:

VFXGEEK
01-06-2004, 06:02 PM
One of the main reasons why I have not used fusion is because there are too many different version of the same software. I rather learn the complete thing than having more than four different versions all with different limitations.

mikemarcus
01-06-2004, 06:19 PM
I have never used fusion but i was under the impression that it was not aimed at the same level of user as shake and nuke. I thought it fell into the aftereffects/combusion camp.

It was probably doug kellys awful book which gave me that impression.

FClub_TDurden
01-06-2004, 07:46 PM
mikemarcus said:
nuke is not quite mature enough yet and needs to add some more functionality before it will be a serious option.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From a company that has been doin fx for over 10yrs now and has won the oscar for technical achievement for NUKE....how can you make this statement....

If you use Nuke with all its tools....there is no way you would have said that....Nuke has a lot more then shake and is way faster....i talk from experience....I was a shake compositor until I worked at DD where I had to use nuke and I can tell you its way more mature then Shake....shake is now where nuke was 4 yrs ago....the only thing nuke doesnt have is a pretty interface like shake....but when your in crunch time winning oscars....interface takes a back seat to production

beaker
01-06-2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Paul Moran
why is it always shake or NUKE ... ?? What happened to the other desktop beast: Digital Fusion ? What is it about fusion that people seem to not like or disregard ?

Personally I think fusion is an awesome app...and im sure it will get a 3D environment before long too ;)

Well, when it comes to film people, it still doesn't run on linux, which is a major limitation. I know it will eventually be comming to linux, but they announced it over a year and a half ago and it is no where in site.

real
01-06-2004, 09:36 PM
Shake or Nuke.

From what i heard from Beaker, Nuke has popup windows everywhere Which I can't stand. Just based on that I would hate to use Nuke.(Granted I have never seen Nuke in action or worked with it myself).

Hears what I think. Both have a great tool set. They both have node based workflow(AWSOME), So any compositor who has worked with a node base compoitor can work with either shake or nuke. Either software will have its problems. Thats just the way it is if either one was perfect this topic would never come up. If Nuke was perfect Shake would take the backseat if Shake was perfect Nuke would take the backseat. I like Shake Everything you need(well not everything but close, QuickPaint not so quick, No real 3D, but I'm with Beaker on this one. and particles we need those).


P.S. Beaker thanks for the great mattes it all worked great, I hope your new Project is going good.

Talk to you soon.:beer:


real

beaker
01-07-2004, 01:33 AM
if you want to see nuke in action check out these 3 swf movie files:
http://nuke.throb.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=2

boboroshi
01-08-2004, 04:57 AM
The Shake license cost hasn't changed for the linux platform, it's simply been cut in half for the mac platform. The idea being that for the same prices as a linux seat without hardware, you can get a mac seat with hardware. That and render nodes are free on mac, but not on linux.

On the other hand, someone has been running a benchmark series using the "desert ship" benchmark on shake on a variety of client machines. The results aren't posted, but it will be interested to see when they're released.

I don't know Nuke, but what are its' scripting capabilities?

beaker
01-08-2004, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by boboroshi
I don't know Nuke, but what are its' scripting capabilities?
It is just like shake, it is built from the ground up with full command line/scripting capabilities and the interface is on top of that. The gui is all written in Tcl like SLIM.

andre_alder
01-08-2004, 07:32 PM
HI,

Maybe Iīm wrong, but I think if Digital Domain had not released a comercial version of NUKE running on Linux, probably Apple would kill the Linux version of Shake sooner as possible.

beaker
01-09-2004, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by andre_alder
HI,

Maybe Iīm wrong, but I think if Digital Domain had not released a comercial version of NUKE running on Linux, probably Apple would kill the Linux version of Shake sooner as possible.
I doubt that since NUKE wasn't even announced till a year after Apple bought Shake. Remember that Nuke has only been out a little over 6 months. DD decided to make Nuke a commercial product because of Apple pulling shake from the windows market. It probably wouldn't have even come out if Apple didn't buy Shake and cancel the windows version.

andre_alder
01-09-2004, 12:55 PM
Hey Beaker,

But, what is necessary to make NUKE a great app to compete to Shake?

Best regards
AD

FKMaster
01-09-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by andre_alder
Hey Beaker,

But, what is necessary to make NUKE a great app to compete to Shake?

Best regards
AD

nothing.......nuke is already great app and with more features like 3d-workspace and hdri-support......

Billy_the_Kid
01-09-2004, 04:27 PM
Well,

1. Third party plug-ins (from others apps like Photoshop, After or companies like SpeedSix, GenArts, RE:Vision Effects, Digital Anarchy.....

2. Better roto and paint tools (maybe like Commotion)

3. Better GUI (maybe like Shake :D )

4. Timeline with NLE tools (Split, trimm, etc)

5. Better audio features, supporting third party plug-ins

6. Render farm

7. Multi-plataforms

8. good price

Thanx and bye
Carlos Eduardo

boboroshi
01-10-2004, 04:48 PM
Why do people always ask for NLE tools in a compositing app?

fr3drik
01-12-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by j00ey
shake also runs under linux, so no absolute need to change over to mac
Well, they are planning on discontinuing the Linux version development also. At least from what I hav heard.

Paul Moran
01-12-2004, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by fr3drik
Well, they are planning on discontinuing the Linux version development also. At least from what I hav heard.

where have you heard this from ??

fr3drik
01-12-2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Paul Moran
where have you heard this from ??
Word of mouth. We are getting Shake licenses in school next year if they are still available for Linux. If not, we are getting Nuke. I guess there has to be a reason behind that decision.

Apple is already making some Shake users "switch" by limiting the Linux platform's features (and making the Mac version cheaper). Of course they can't force the entire Shake4Linux community to switch to Mac but, naturally, that is what they want (in the long run).

Paul Moran
01-12-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by fr3drik
Word of mouth. We are getting Shake licenses in school next year if they are still available for Linux. If not, we are getting Nuke. I guess there has to be a reason behind that decision.

Apple is already making some Shake users "switch" by limiting the Linux platform's features (and making the Mac version cheaper). Of course they can't force the entire Shake4Linux community to switch to Mac but, naturally, that is what they want (in the long run).

I hope not :eek:

I have resisted MAC since it was born LOL ... id hate for them to pull its killer software app TOTALLY in house (eg: MAC hardware only :( ) ... and im sure ALL production pipelines across the globe share this sentiment ... its just another apple attempt to pimp hardware

Cheers mate

Paul

boboroshi
01-12-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by fr3drik
Word of mouth. We are getting Shake licenses in school next year if they are still available for Linux. If not, we are getting Nuke. I guess there has to be a reason behind that decision.

Apple is already making some Shake users "switch" by limiting the Linux platform's features (and making the Mac version cheaper). Of course they can't force the entire Shake4Linux community to switch to Mac but, naturally, that is what they want (in the long run).

Posted on the highend2d shake list in response to your question (copied here for other person's information):

Dear Shake Customer,

Recent announcements from Red Hat have caused some concern for us all.
After
speaking with many of you, we have found that, for the most part, our
customers and other vendors are not interested in migrating to a fee
based
Linux solution from Red Hat. Therefore, our course of action at this
time is
to migrate to Red Hat 9 since this is the predecessor for both Red Hat
Enterprise and the Fedora project. The next release of Shake will have
Red
Hat 9 as the required Linux operating system.

We hope this information will assist you in your facility planning. For
those interested in switching to the Mac platform, there is a Shake
2-for-1
license trade-in offer in effect until April 1st, 2004.

If you have questions about purchasing licenses or changing platforms,
please contact a Professional Film Reseller. Visit
http://www.apple.com/shake/proresellers.html for more information.

alphatron
01-12-2004, 03:11 PM
boboroshi - Why do people always ask for NLE tools in a compositing app?

Because it's a very useful feature. Ever since Combustion added basic NLE functionality it has made quite a few of my compositing tasks easier and more efficient. It's especially useful for smaller houses where everyone takes on multiple responsibilities.

X3M
01-14-2004, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by FClub_TDurden
mikemarcus said:
nuke is not quite mature enough yet and needs to add some more functionality before it will be a serious option.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From a company that has been doin fx for over 10yrs now and has won the oscar for technical achievement for NUKE....how can you make this statement....

If you use Nuke with all its tools....there is no way you would have said that....Nuke has a lot more then shake and is way faster....i talk from experience....I was a shake compositor until I worked at DD where I had to use nuke and I can tell you its way more mature then Shake....shake is now where nuke was 4 yrs ago....the only thing nuke doesnt have is a pretty interface like shake....but when your in crunch time winning oscars....interface takes a back seat to production

:thumbsup:

Billy_the_Kid
01-14-2004, 09:53 AM
Hi X3M,

I would like to see some plugins like GenArts, SpeedSix, Revision, etc, work on NUKE.
I know that NUKE is a great app for film, but would not be great is it hd some features/tools for broadcast or motion graphics works?

Regards
carlos eduardo

zanian
01-22-2004, 01:18 AM
Well they are both solid programs fro film compositing. I prefer Nuke.

It is fast

It is fast

It is fast

Yes Shake has a prettier interface.

No Nuke is not good at motion graphics or audio, neither is Shake. Use AE or Combustion for that.

sharks
01-22-2004, 04:17 AM
i am a flame/shake artist and would love to check out nuke....is there any demo version of NUKE available....i donno i have been searching for it for a while...

!!sharks!!NUKE

Paul Moran
01-22-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by sharks
i am a flame/shake artist and would love to check out nuke....is there any demo version of NUKE available....i donno i have been searching for it for a while...

!!sharks!!NUKE

go HERE (http://nuke.throb.net) and see what you can dig up...I think there are some evaluation version for download :)

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