Idea for a new trick with Motion Designer

[HowardM]

Good idea! Kind of like this? (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75297&highlight=motion)

have you played with the Hold settings to stop the deflation?
also remember outragous # values for spring or any variable sometimes work, .0001 to 500000....

what about a copy of the 'skin' polys beneath the 'skin' set to fixed so the 'skin' actually was reacting to the animated body?
hmmm bet MD would lose it! :)
wonder what 8 will be like?

[Carm3D]

> have you played with the Hold settings to stop the deflation?

Yes, but I don't like how that looks.. It just quivers like jello. I want something to actually flop around, but still maintain a sense of volume.

I can't view any of those animations.. They must not be online anymore

But he was probably going on the same thought process as I am having.

> what about a copy of the 'skin' polys beneath the 'skin'
> set to fixed so the 'skin' actually was reacting to the
> animated body?

That would look like the character is wearing clothes, wouldn't it?

> hmmm bet MD would lose it!

This is all theoretical until I actually try it.. But my guess is that extremely high sub-structure (and similar) settings would no longer be necessary if it has a physical internal structure like what I am thinking of.. Which could even mean quicker computation times.

> wonder what 8 will be like?

Indeed!

[HowardM]

Originally posted by Carm3D
> have you played with the Hold settings to stop the deflation?

Yes, but I don't like how that looks.. It just quivers like jello. I want something to actually flop around, but still maintain a sense of volume.


ohh, well then yeah that 8 tire demo looks more like what you want.


about a copy of the 'skin' polys beneath the 'skin'
> set to fixed so the 'skin' actually was reacting to the
> animated body?

That would look like the character is wearing clothes, wouldn't it?

[/B]

hmm, well if you made the skin with much Spring and Hold, I imagine you could make it react like skin on top of bone/hard muscle...kinda like they made muscles/bones and skin in Shrek!
Too much futzing to do with MD...maybe the new HD/SD feature will work better?

[Carm3D]

> ohh, well then yeah that 8 tire demo looks more like what you want.

Nah that tire effect is similar to the melt feature in Messiah... Nice to have, but not what I am after right now.

> Too much futzing to do with MD...maybe the new HD/SD feature will work better?

I have no doubt 8 will be better.. But that could be months away.. I need to produce now. :)

I am experimenting with my idea right now.

[Carm3D]

Like this:

http://www.Carm3D.net/Temp.GIF

[HowardM]

hmmm, ok not what I thought you meant, but uh did it work?
:)

[Carm3D]

So far it's 1000% better

It grabs MD by the neck and says, "You WILL work the way I want you to, bitch!"

[HowardM]

Come on, so what was that sample, a crossection of a booby?
and so whats it doing? holding it in place like shock absorbers?
cool if so!
but if you just made the 2 pt surfaces harder with high spring and hold, do you really even need a center ball?

[Carm3D]

> Come on, so what was that sample, a crossection of a booby?

Of course!

> and so whats it doing? holding it in place like shock absorbers?

Basically, yeah.. If you look in the manual, sub-structure is like adding X's inside your polys to give it better support.. This takes it further and gives it internal support.. The feeling of volume. Without them all it has to go on is the skin... Which isn't enough for MD.

> but if you just made the 2 pt surfaces harder with high spring and hold, do you really even need a center ball?

No... I don't want the look of hard hold.. That just quivery like firm jello. I can do that without the internal framwork.. I want it to bounce and slosh around without collapsing. And I have achieved that. Yay me.
:bounce:

[HowardM]

Originally posted by Carm3D
> Come on, so what was that sample, a crossection of a booby?

Of course!

> and so whats it doing? holding it in place like shock absorbers?

Basically, yeah.. If you look in the manual, sub-structure is like adding X's inside your polys to give it better support.. This takes it further and gives it internal support.. The feeling of volume. Without them all it has to go on is the skin... Which isn't enough for MD.

> but if you just made the 2 pt surfaces harder with high spring and hold, do you really even need a center ball?

No... I don't want the look of hard hold.. That just quivery like firm jello. I can do that without the internal framwork.. I want it to bounce and slosh around without collapsing. And I have achieved that. Yay me.
:bounce:

cool, so did you have to make 2 pts all around the whole boob or just a few like the sample you showed us? and what did you have to do, make the center ball a fixed surface? then the shock absorbers one MD surface and the boob another?

yeah thats like Matt P's substructure idea but he basically makes 3D 'substructures' , so basically he builds objects out of Xcubes that have volume Xs...ya know? cool but a pain to model objects!
:)

[Carm3D]

I canned the sphere and replaced it with a smaller version of the orginal breast... and yes that internal shape is fixed.

The support beams are one MD surface and the breast skin is another.

It sounds like I am doing similar to what Matt did. I have to make extra beams that criss-cross (making X's) also.. basically emulating what sub-structure does. And yes I'm doing them all around, not just in the cross section shown in that early version

[kevman3d]

Cool idea...

Did you try the 'pressure' setting in MD? If your mesh is a closed surface, it simulates the effect of, say, filling it with water and attempts to keep it pushed out rather then collapsing it.

Tried it 2-3 times in the past - Mostly on spherical objects though!

Kev.

[aurora]

Nice concept. I have never tried this in LW but have in Maya and loved the results. A couple other nice advantages to substructures is that once you create a really nice one or set of ones for a character you can use it for most every other simular character (ie humanoids, horses, birds, etc) Another is you can rig to the sub-structure adding some pretty smooth animation possibities like breathing, chocking, muscle flexing, ect. One major disadvantage though LOTS of extra geometry for smaller machines to crunch through.

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