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roger
12-23-2003, 05:13 PM
Interesting read..........:shrug:
LINK (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-373392,curpg-1.cms)

PhilOsirus
12-23-2003, 05:24 PM
Everything will be outsourced, CG as well. I said before, only vast space exploration programs would create a new industry for western countries to expand in. Sounds crazy but I think this is just another proof that things are now being shipped overseas at a quicker pace than ever before.

matty429
12-23-2003, 05:34 PM
Thats the same site that said All of Return of the kings vfx was done in india...True....uhhh no..

LINK (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=233769)

boboroshi
12-23-2003, 08:37 PM
That's just shoddy reporting. Oy veh.

RobertoOrtiz
12-23-2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by boboroshi
That's just shoddy reporting. Oy veh.

My friend you are being nice. I would use stronger adjectives to describe this kind of reporting.

-R

boboroshi
12-23-2003, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by RobertoOrtiz
My friend are being nice. I would use stronger adjectives to describe this kind of reporting.

-R

Oh I could think of a few myself ;)

PhilOsirus
12-23-2003, 09:03 PM
Ah! I didn't see that, I checked the source looking for the word Indian and didn't find any. Their newspapers are often full of rumors, even their equivalent of NY Times, with a lot of pseudo-nationalistic mumbo-jumbo like the story of the non-existent man-made 7000 years old bridge they had a satelite photo of...

malducin
12-23-2003, 11:00 PM
Wll there's more credabce to this story since they quote Samir Hoon. Unless of course all his quotes are complete fabrication. At least it's not as unthinkable anymore since R+H opened shop in India.

It's not like they are going, they are just considering it which might not materialize for now.

Neil
12-24-2003, 12:26 PM
I know Dell had outsourced a lot of their customer support to India, but then after too many complaints of people not being able to understand them, they are bringing a lot of it back.

CourtJester
12-24-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Phil "Osirus"
Everything will be outsourced, CG as well. I said before, only vast space exploration programs would create a new industry for western countries to expand in.

You mean everything's been invented? :D

boomji
12-24-2003, 06:05 PM
i havent read the article but yes, samir was here and he came over our studio(MAYA) and many others as well...and i dont think it's just INDIA it's asia theyre looking at.
We had a Q and A session for the whole day...almost and this guy dosent cut any corners when he has to explain the nitty gritty. :buttrock: .
Later in the evening we had a general presentation for the public where he stepped all of us through their recent showreel...again Every thing in detail(only this time he was completely lost to most who came there looking for eye candy).

As far as the whole outsourcing issue goes...i guess i'd feel the same way if i was in your shoes :shrug:
JUST sometimes it gets a little too much with the bad vibing indians thing...I mean ya were economical(read cheap) but we must be doing something else right as well.

sorry if i pissed some you folks off on christmas.

b

BNicolucci
12-24-2003, 07:22 PM
Eventually prices will rise in India as cost of living goes up to a more reasonable level and another country will come along and much of the work will then move there. 2d has done this for many, many years. It's what happens when cost is more important then quality.

Besides, it's not like their aren't folks from India who are just as passionate about 3d as the rest of the world. They deserve to work like everyone else.

odin
12-24-2003, 07:57 PM
You guys needn't give 3d business coming to this country a second thought. I love my country and do feel hurt by some of the words above. But then again, i do have to look at the facts...

As regards the call centre business, yes most of the countries are reverting back to their local centres because some people here do have problems understanding callers. For eg, we had this newspaper article which stated that when a woman called a chat line when her husband passed away and told the guy " I lost my husband " and the guy replied... " don't worry ma'am, we'll help you find him !" I understand he meant to be helpful but.... man.... lol.. some common sense was certainly called for at that time.

We don't have great instructors in our classes like you guys do in the states. My maya class saw three changes of mediocre instructors in a two month period. They taught us the simple modeling and animation techniques... The four of us in that class were so disgusted we never even went back.. and that is supposed to be one of the finer animation studios here. I was lucky to have a father who supported me with everything i needed and i purchased alex alvares's videos and now i've got to make 4 projects for the lot of us...

But the fact remains that COST is EVERYTHING in business. Although 3d is ART and SKILL to us, we are just up for hire to film producers and the like and we all have a price tag. We will be paid what we are worth or less. The world will be a very competitive place and noone can afford to take things for granted because for every established animation artist... there is one waiting to take his place...

Lastly, we're a developing country and the government needs a lot of revenue to continue our path of growth. They never fail to tax ridiculously high amounts on industries doing well here and i'm sure once everything is all said and done, we'll be no cheaper than the states or europe.






:cry:

odin
12-24-2003, 08:28 PM
( continued from my last post above )

3d helped me to realise how great the lord is for creating this earth. we work all those hours and still find it so hard to create real good 3d animations. It is just so hard to put concept into commission in a very reasonable span of time. Sometimes due to the complexity of modeling somethings right to the rendering times on machines of those not fortunate enough to have access to studio render farms.

I had intended to take 3d as my career last christmas. I worked as hard as i could. but looking at the prospects... long hours in a closed room, eye strain, lack of decent exercise, competition, lower compensation, lack of really dynamic teaching faculty in this country ( i can't afford to go abroad for learning from the biggies ) this class animation project will probably be my first and last in 3d. I've opted for a job in the tourism industry.

To all you great animators, lighting artists, texture artists, riggers, dynamics experts, kinematic gurus, camera men and modelers... i bow my head in humble respect. Only a 3d minnow can realise what the biggies sacrifice and their ability to create visual treats. All the best to you guys in future. I would believe i speak for a lot of 3d animator wannabes in this country.

:thumbsup:

aazimkhan
12-25-2003, 12:07 AM
some of my thoughts...although i am from India, I am in no way with or against all this...

but i think India still has to go a long long way to reach the level of visual effects that are produced in N.America /Europe etc.
" IF" ILM is looking and knows that there are good artists in India that can be used,
why dont local indian companies hire them and boost the quality, seriouslly the quality of visual effects in Indian movies right now is sad, and I myself would love to join a good comapany in India and be a part in making vfx better - if given a good offer/oppurtunity, being from India i respect my country and these are my views that i think, i think becuase i would love to help india improve.

Cheers.

PixelVampire
12-25-2003, 12:31 AM
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/378808.cms

WillRyan
12-25-2003, 05:31 PM
does anyone have anymore examples of articles that may have been reported the same way in this newspaper? I was over on another board telling people that the paper may be stretching the truth, citing the ROTK article as an example of their reporting. I tried to say that this paper is twisting news into their favor, and was saying that it was irresponsible reporting. Now I'm being attacked, 'cos I didn't believe every last word that was being said. Can you guys help me defend myself? Any other links to articles where they may have done the same? Thanks.

matty429
12-25-2003, 06:36 PM
Previos thread concerning Return of the king (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94918)

asparapani
12-26-2003, 05:03 AM
HELLO! Like this has been happening for years now. Nothing new in this respect.

Emmanuel
12-26-2003, 11:10 AM
Hi,

not tryingt o hijack the thread.
I am living/studying/working here in Germany, and we face the "problem" that a lot of work is send to the eastern european countries, such as Poland.
Its pretty hard to see that our fellow artists over there get much less money for the same task and quality, but I also have the feeling that governments will try NOT to improve the situation, BECAUSE:
economic growth nationwide is a thing that secures votes for democratic parties.
Would the standard of living rise, the costs for the work would also rise, making the country becoming less appealing to outside investors, which leads to a decrease of job imports, which leads...You get the idea.
So, the "plan" of the leading politicians and the economical tycoons is to keep the wages and the living standard as low as possible to secure the flow of work from other high tech "rich" countries.
Its an evil plan, really, and no one of the "guys up there" has the slightest interest to really improve living standards in these countries, trust me.
In germany, right now they are doing everything to get our standard down, because they tell us we have to keep up with countries like China, where in some parts the wages are 95% lower than here.
Yep, tahts right: 95% !
Now, people from India, China could say, hey Your own fault, get down with Your expenses, become modest ect.
But it doesn't depend on *me* if I also have to pay 95% more for my apartment, food, car etc than in India or China.

matty429
12-26-2003, 05:51 PM
I'm not speaking for anyone but myself...but,

I don't care who does the work where...
The point to me and I think others, is misleading articles/Companys that steal credit from where it's due...

Zappa
12-27-2003, 02:51 AM
I do not think India is going to be taking anybodys CG Jobs, simply cause there arent enough CG Talent (in terms of numbers).

Why u may ask?
cause the education system has discouraged any kind of serious intrest in Art.
India therefore churns out way more programers than artists.In the town i lived, i almost knew every single person that had anything to do with computer Graphics, thats how small the community is.

Things may change in the years to come, but as of now i dont see any huge offshoreing of work to India as a reality.

The reports that appear (and that are quoted above) are only meant for local consumption, it does appear funny when read in this context.I have been seeing similar kinda reports appear from time to time, and has no real meaning except for advertising companies to keep their clients on edge :wip:

Cheers

DEVARSHY
12-28-2003, 06:57 PM
tHIS Article.... if anything's true - I cant say without doing any research- is purely misleading,and embarrassing for ma as an Indian CG artist.

I call this "Fraud By Ommission".The world Knows Weta does the Vfx for Lord Of the Rings trilogy.... If one or two models or a few shots were even done by Applause... It shouldnt be taking the whole credit as is seems to be reported in the article....

Ill try to talk to the said reporter tomorrow and give a clear picture in the thread here. Hopefully, Tomorrow.

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