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flipnap
12-20-2003, 05:52 PM
Okay, ill keep this simple because i need a semi-simple answer.. im building a machine specifically for maya, not for rendering.. just work and playblasts (which dont use duel).. i want single processor and im ready to buy.. evryone says athalons and maya go hand in hand so i want to know is:

1. Why would a 64 opteron or fx be better than a regular 32 xp (i dont need the ram expandability)

2. what is the best motherboard for maya and athalon.

Thanks and I know there are a ton of amd vs petium posts and ive come across the what processor for maya post, but it turned into a processor debate and maya got left out..

thanks yall,

p.s. if you had a choice for maya work only.. which of these would you choose...

A: Pentium 4 3.2 ghz, and abit ic7 max

B: amd athalon64 , gigabyte k8nnxp

GregHess
12-20-2003, 06:12 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110487&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

flipnap
12-20-2003, 06:19 PM
hey thanks for the reply:) i read through this thread already.. problem is, i dont need/want a dual.. and that thread isnt maya specific. It also addresses the memory expansion but there is little else said, specific to maya, why a 64 bit would be faster.. I guess there are just too many options.. i did much research on all this, Im not just looking for someone to spoon feed me an answer. The majority of maya specific answers are for redering (ie, dual xeon or opteron) .. mayas workflow utilizes only one processor and thats all im going to buy.. I guess ill take my chances.. thanks anyway

BTW, money isnt really an option for my purchase plans, and a lot of threads are value oriented.. im simple looking for the best performer for non-render specific maya tasks

iC4
12-21-2003, 12:42 PM
Well, I would say it makes really no difference if you will use a p4 single system or a amd single system with maya.

Maybe this will change if you will use a 64bit OS and a maya version optimized for 64bit but at the moment it just doesn't really matter.

But since it's possible that there will be optimized versions and since the amd is the newer technology I would go the amd way.

I would go with a a64 3000+ (or if you can afford it go with the 3200+), because the athlon fx is really expensive, and not really "upgradeable" since it will move to a new socket in some time.

Sieb
12-21-2003, 06:22 PM
Like IC4 said, there is no point in having a 64bit system until summer, you will gain no benefit from it whatsoever on the desktop without a 64bit OS which isn't out yet aside from linux or Jaguar. Save your money and build a P4 with HyperThreading.

flipnap
12-22-2003, 01:08 AM
actually there is a point in going 64 bit amd vs 32.. cuz the fastest non 64 there is , is the athalon xp 3200 that only has a 400 fsb.. but the 64 fx has an 800 mhz bus... thats why i was asking... the main reason right now that i would go with intel is because the p4 has an 800 fsb... i would much rather have an AMD since i now see that maya really favors it, but to match the pentiums fsb, i would have to step up to 64 bit 64/FX chip

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 02:30 AM
but your fsb speed alone really doesn't matter. the fsb is just a part of the total speed equasion, and the total speed is what you should be looking at. Athlon XP's do just fine with their 400MHz fsb vs Intel's 800.

There are only two reasons to buy an AMD-64 system right now- more memory expandability (which you said you dont need, so that's a moot point) AND the migration of the memory controller to the CPU. Because the CPU doesn't have to bother going through the Northbridge to access the memory anymore the latency is greatly reduced, which can offer a very nice speed improvement- even in 32-bit apps.

So, the whole point of buying an AMD64 cpu right now is that they are faster in regular 32-bit computing. If you were using an app that was optimised for the P4 then there would be no reason to go with AMD. But, you aren't, so you might as well get the fastest 32-bit processing available... it just so happens that the cpu that will give you the best 32-bit performance is also capable of being a 64-bit cpu.

flipnap
12-22-2003, 03:34 AM
3dfx, you sound like the right guy to be talking to here, and im onto what your saying.. cool, cool... okay, so i will be going amd Im pretty sure.. so, for a single , non rendering system (well, i obvioulsy will be rendering, but not building a farm here) would you say I go for the 64, the fx, or the opteron.. and which motherboard would you say. i was looking at a gigabyte k8nnxp..

thanks soooo much for your help, i really appreciate it...

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 05:52 AM
well, the FX is greatly overpriced and the Opteron will probably not give you the price/performance that you would get with the 64. However, I could be wrong, and I'll see what I can find out tomorrow. I'll also have a look at motherboards.

Novakog
12-22-2003, 07:56 AM
As you're not doing rendering, a 64 FX would perform better than any P4. The only advantage P4s have over the 64 FX is HT, which only helps in multi-threaded things. The 64 FX is faster just at calculations but it also has a faster bridge between the AGP slot and the processor (thanks Thalaxis) which will allow greater viewport speed.

If you don't mind paying an extra $350 (which is a lot for the gain you would get, i.e. you're not getting the P4EE, just the regular, than go for the Athlon 64 FX. But $350 is a lot to pay for the gain you would get for most people, it's what you would do if someone else was paying for it ;) or if you had a ton of extra money and nothing to spend it on.

Of course, you could go with the 64 3200. I think it's slower than a P4 3.2, but about the same price range and would allow for 64 bit programs later on (where it would be much faster than a P4).\

But I think, unless you want to expand to 64 bit on this computer later on, or if you have some extra money to blow on an A64 FX, go with the P4.

MadMax
12-22-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Sieb
Like IC4 said, there is no point in having a 64bit system until summer, you will gain no benefit from it whatsoever on the desktop without a 64bit OS which isn't out yet aside from linux or Jaguar. Save your money and build a P4 with HyperThreading.

Not true at all.

The advange is you get the fastest 32 bit processor available right now, it beats the P4EE for speed and it is 300.00 cheaper.

And you can expand to 64 bit OS later, making it the only viable 64 bit alternative for the desktop in the x86 world.

Even with HT, the P4 doesn't compete. If you want a fast system, then the FX or A64 makes a lot of sense.

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 05:26 PM
it looks like right now the 3000+ for only $230 is the absolute best bang for your buck, but if you can afford the more expensive 3200+ then you might want to look at the 2.0GHz Opteron. Paired with an nForce3 motherboard it has done extremely well. However, you will have to buy more expensive memory for the Opteron vs the Athlon64. Still, if you have the cash, I think that the Opteron 148 will do you VERY well.

Either way, it appears that the nForce3 motherboards are the way to go right now.

edit:
oh and as for the AGP port having a faster connection to the CPU... not really going to matter much in the real world.

flipnap
12-22-2003, 05:52 PM
thank you guys so much for your insight and help.. so it looks like ill probably go with :

AMD athalon64 3200 (if i go opteron, itll be 244 problem with THAT is, amd recommends MSI boards for those chips, and ive read horror stories about MSI)

gigabyte K8NNXP

and for memory ill prolly go with :

CORSAIR TWINX1024-3200C2

...

Im still 5 percent thinking about pentium, but its just something im going to have to make a final decision on.. again, its a maya machine and maya appearantly loves those AMDS so ......

Thanks again yall, and anymore recommendations, tips, or whatever.. feel free to let me know..

MadMax
12-22-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
However, you will have to buy more expensive memory for the Opteron vs the Athlon64.


I really wish people would clarify remarks like that since it is VERY misleading.

The price difference is extremely minimal. On 512mb sticks, the difference is only 20.00 per stick. Not very much at all.

If 20.00 is so much it requires an admonition about cost, then you can't afford the computer in the first place.

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by MadMax
I really wish people would clarify remarks like that since it is VERY misleading.

The price difference is extremely minimal. On 512mb sticks, the difference is only 20.00 per stick. Not very much at all.

If 20.00 is so much it requires an admonition about cost, then you can't afford the computer in the first place. actually, I wasn't aware that there was now such a low price difference. Please tell me where you found this stuff, I need some :P

MadMax
12-22-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
actually, I wasn't aware that there was now such a low price difference. Please tell me where you found this stuff, I need some :P

did a search on Pricewatch. Corsair PC3200 512mb registered.

regular was 122.00, registered was 142.00

matty429
12-22-2003, 06:18 PM
I you want a single....get an Nforce 3

I always use MSI...never have any problems...Some of Dells' boards are built by MSI ...in my book MSI is second best to Asus...but thats just me...Motherboards are mainly a preference...But the Nforce 3 Is probably the best for what you want....

Horror stories revolve around anything with a Via Or sis chipset...If you want stability ..avoid theese like the plague

flipnap
12-22-2003, 06:20 PM
but matty, the recommended motherboard for the opteron is an MSI board with a VIA chipset, so thats outta da window, unless anyone else knows oF A non-via opteron board...

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 06:21 PM
ahh, but that is already a lot more than I paid for my Corsair 3200. I guess memory prices in general have risen.'

As for MSI, I will never ever ever again tough anything MSI because I have had nothing but very BAD experiences with them.

MadMax
12-22-2003, 06:24 PM
from personal experience and observation of others, I place MSI on about a par, maybe slightly lower than ECS for quality boards.

Their K7 Master was complete garbage. Many users returned as many as 5 in a row that were legitimately defective.

I personally returned 3 of them. On one, the dimm slot for the ram wasn't even soldered in, it was just hanging in the holes.

Then I heard problems with their dual K7Master D.

Then they made a design error on their Opteron boards, 4 dimm slots connected to one CPU, so it has to feed the second CPU. AMD wasn't very happy with that.

Single boards:

Asus SK8N. Asus has lousy tech support, but generally a good board.

Gigabyte K8NNXP-940 Lots of features. decent price. Pretty reliable.

Heard the Leadtek is supposed to be good, no one has it in stock.

I think Anandtech did a roundup recently on these boards.

flipnap
12-22-2003, 06:25 PM
Wow, im seeing corsair pc3200 512 for 74 dollars!

but im planning on getting a pair of corsair twinx.. matched pair totaling 1 gb 400mhz for 217 dollars US.....and yeah, i think ill stay away from MSI

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by flipnap
Wow, im seeing corsair pc3200 512 for 74 dollars!

but im planning on getting a pair of corsair twinx.. matched pair totaling 1 gb 400mhz for 217 dollars US.....and yeah, i think ill stay away from MSI well, unless you're running dual channel, there is really no reason not to buy just two independant sticks, and the A64 is not dual channel.

flipnap
12-22-2003, 06:39 PM
Ahhhhh!!! thanks for saving me troubles... ill go with

CORSAIR CMX512-3200C2 64X64 400MHZ 512MB CL2 DDR DIMM W/HEAT SPREADER

the sticks are 109 each.. so it comes out to be the same anyway..

flip

matty429
12-22-2003, 06:55 PM
Alright...but dont be mad when the NForce 250 pro comes out ...Its due in about 2 weeks...

You ask me....I don't thing anything Athlon 64 is ready for primetime yet...does anyone remember jumping on the athlon bandwagon when it started....you get your system plugged in and poof..New revised chipset..that wasn't available the day you bought the old one...massive AGP problems..power supply issues...Memory incompatibilities...

I'm not saying this will happen...but I would wait untill a revised chipset or 2

PCI-X etc.etc

If you need a 64 bit computer now...well then just be ready to upgrade sooner than you think...

also...how come you dont just buy a prebuilt system...with support and tested components? is it money....?
if soo...good ...save more and by the time you're saved up ...you will be in a mutch better purchasing place...All i'm saying is if you're limited to one or 2 board to choose from ..then maybe somethings wrong here...

flipnap
12-22-2003, 07:06 PM
actually, i am buying a prebuilt barebones system.. i wont buy a full built system cuz i already have drives, video card etc.. and i do have a choice of many motherboards, thats why im asking which one i should use.. what gave you the impression i only had 1 or 2 boards to choose from? the only reason i said the MSI board was because i checked AMDs website for recommended boards for the OPTERON and they said an MSI with VIA chipset.. but that was an opteron.. if i go with a 64, then i can use the nviidia chipset.. and im not really choosing the 64 for its 64 bit capabilitites.. im choosing it because the regular 32 bit chips have stpped their performance at the 3200 xp.. i want more performance than that, but it stops there, and they picked up with the 64's... i dont need or even want a 64 bit chip but its 32 bit performance seems to rival it 32 bit 3200xp.. thats why im looking at it..

by the way , im looking at the barebones systems on mwave.com

flip

flipnap
12-22-2003, 07:10 PM
also, 3dfx, the dual channel ram i was looking at was for the athalon 64 FX chip.. i see that the 64 only uses single.. im still thinking of going for the AMD64FX

oh boy

matty429
12-22-2003, 07:15 PM
Do what you will...just trying to help....

I meant Chipsets ...not motherboards...

The Nforce 250 pro is for Athlonfx/Opteron

I know it's not out yet....But that is exactly the point....

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 07:18 PM
if you're going to buy an AthlonFX then consider buying an Opteron.

flipnap
12-22-2003, 07:24 PM
Matty, i wasnt coming down on you, i was just curious as to what you were talking about, i apologize if it read like i was being rude but i assure you i wasnt.. and i assumed you were talking about boards not chipsets because

All i'm saying is if you're limited to one or 2 board to choose from

I simply am not too knowledgable about chipsets and such.. only what i read and what peoples opinions are.. but heres what makes me uneasy.. waiting to buy something thats around the corner for fear of being outdated, but when the corner turns, and the new "item" comes out.. then one shouldnt buy because its too new and is still buggy.. but by the time the bugs are worked out, something new is around the corner and so on and so on.. so ill never end up with anything.. i have to make and educated decision and move on something.. either way, please point me to where i can read about the new chipset you mentioned, it sound like something to look into..

thanks

MadMax
12-22-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Alright...but dont be mad when the NForce 250 pro comes out ...Its due in about 2 weeks...

Nope.

We havent even seen anything beyond the reference boards from nVidia and nothing from the major manufacturers.

I'd be surprised if yo see them before April or later.

You ask me....I don't thing anything Athlon 64 is ready for primetime yet...does anyone remember jumping on the athlon bandwagon when it started....you get your system plugged in and poof..New revised chipset..that wasn't available the day you bought the old one...massive AGP problems..power supply issues...Memory incompatibilities...

While you are entitled to your opinion, it's wrong. the 64 bit chips are quite ready for primetime. I never quite understand where people get these assumptions, and what they consider "ready for primetime" means.

Any CPU/Chipset I can run reliably 24/7 without errors, crashes or other phantom problems, rely on for important work and deadlines and show the same level of stability I have had with previous "mature" platforms, I see no reason to say it's not ready for primetime.

And just for the record, I jumped on the early Athlon bandwagon. You are grossly overstating problems with the early platform. Nothing like revisionism to make a point.

I would wait untill a revised chipset or 2 PCI-X etc.etc

Why? please give one reason for this advice. This seems to be a common fallacy of people who don't have a lot of experience, and that is to assume because something is new, it isn't ready.

Unfortunately that prevalent misconception is as about as real as the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.

If you need a 64 bit computer now...well then just be ready to upgrade sooner than you think...

Nope.

I heard the same arguments being passed around last year when Asus released the very first nForce2 boards. Wait for a revision, not ready blah blah blah. same old tired scare warnings.

I had 2 of the nForce2 boards the next day after release.

I am still using both. Never had a problem. EVER. More often is the case that people with problems is operator error, and they blame their lack of experience or knowledge on the computer.

Happens every day.

also...how come you dont just buy a prebuilt system...with support and tested components? is it money....?
if soo...good ...save more and by the time you're saved up ...you will be in a mutch better purchasing place...All i'm saying is if you're limited to one or 2 board to choose from ..then maybe somethings wrong here...

generally this is bad advice. There is always something new coming out "real soon now". If you wait on real soon now, you'll never buy anything.

Don't buy an FX, it isn't the real FX. the 939 pin FX is coming real soon now. WE'll overlook the fact that we are talking at least 6 months away. ANd nothing prevents the current FX from kicking serious ass. Do you have any idea how much work you can get done in 6 months?

I could see me telling a client that he has to wait 6 months because I need a new computer, but I am waiting for that next big thing. Yeah right.

Yeah, nForce3 250 Pro is coming, just not that soon. Is it going to be better? Yeah, of course it is. Will you REALLY notice a huge difference? nope. Computers are so fast now that we are measuring in fractions of a second. Are you going to notice a .9 difference in rendertimes? hell no. Not unless your real name is Clark Kent.

MadMax
12-22-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
if you're going to buy an AthlonFX then consider buying an Opteron.

Only problem with that is that the FX at 2.2ghz is about 250.00 cheaper that the similarly clocked Opteron 200 series, and the Opteron 148 isn't even available yet so we don't know what those will be priced at.

Also, IF he decides to tweak a bit, the FX is multiplier unlocked, Opteron is not.

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 07:41 PM
on pricewatch the 2.0GHz Opteron (146) goes for $417, but the 2.2 FX is $721. The 2.0 Opteron is a very very nice chip.

edit:
and the 146 Opteron is only about $30 more than an A64 3200, and it performs muchly better.

matty429
12-22-2003, 07:45 PM
Pci-X...All the new ...hip Graphics cards will move over to this

A little info on the Board (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mainboards/display/20031121142330.html)


Geez...someone got up on the wrong side of the bed....Your opinion is only as valid as anyone else's Mayabe you're just still bitter about your bad purchases....I'm sorry if I don't conform to MadMax's Standards...But also ...I bought the Nforce
1 and loved it ....Im talking about ...the athlon...the origional...Slot a design...


If im soo wrong about 64 not being primetime....then wheres the OS?

Dont gimme that linux crap Either...
I doubt it applies to this instance

flipnap
12-22-2003, 07:48 PM
3dfx, if i were to go opteron, do know of a motherboard for that with an ndivia chipset? i checked AMD's site, and all they recommend is MSI with VIA set..

thanks

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Pci-X...All the new ...hip Graphics cards will move over to this ahh, you mean PCI Express (aka 3GIO). PCI-X is actually something different.

MattClary
12-22-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
if you're going to buy an AthlonFX then consider buying an Opteron.

Does the Opteron support dual channel memory?


edit: Ahhh, never mind. Answered my own question. I think 3dfx_sage is correct, just get an Opteron.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1884&p=5

MadMax
12-22-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by matty429 Geez...someone got up on the wrong side of the bed....Your opinion is only as valid as anyone else's Mayabe you're just still bitter about your bad purchases....

No, I am correcting faulty information being passed off as fact. You said the 64's are not ready for primetime,but fail to offer any evidence of this.

I've been beta testing Opterons since last year, using regularly since April and have been running a couple of FX's since they came out.

Fact: there was serious beta testing before these were released, moreso than most chips because AMD wanted no problems.

The one thing that came up was early Opterons had a very minor issue with SSE2, and I am not even sure if those were in the betas or the actual shipping units.

Fact: the chips are reliable and quite capable of running 24/7 without issues.
I'm running important paid jobs on them that I can't afford to have screwed up.

Fact: ILM thinks they are ready for primetime and they are a multi million dollar effects house. Whose opinion do I take? someone using them in their production pipeline or someone like yourself who IS obviously bitter about his past purchases?


I'm sorry if I don't conform to MadMax's Standards...But also ...I bought the Nforce
1 and loved it ....Im talking about ...the athlon...the origional...Slot a design...

Not sure what you are going on about. I'm giving the poster facts, not speculation and not opinions based on zero practical experience. I use them daily do you?

As for the Original Athlons,

YEAH.....I....GOT ........THAT..........

I didn't have problems with those either. Read the post instead of getting pissy and acting like a little girl.

If im soo wrong about 64 not being primetime....then wheres the OS?

Dont gimme that linux crap Either...
I doubt it applies to this instance


Windows 2000, Windows XP and several Linux. All run just fine. Even as a 32 bit processor it has a superior design and runs faster than the majority of the alternates out there.

I have Windows64, it runs fine too.

Please explain how the lack of the full 64 bit OS makes your comments relevant.

That lack doesn't impede functionality in anyway what so ever.

That lack doesn't keep every windows application available from running 100% on it.

Simple fact is, there are no facts to back up your assertion, and many many facts that contradict you.

MattClary
12-22-2003, 08:24 PM
Here's a question for the naysayers (that AMD64 is a waste since Win 64 isn't readily available): Which came first, a 32bit version of DOS/Windows or a 32bit Intel cpu?

MadMax
12-22-2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by MattClary
Here's a question for the naysayers (that AMD64 is a waste since WIn 64 isn't readily available): Which came first, a 32bit version of Windows or a 32bit Intel cpu?

I'd also point out the Dec Alpha.

A system that was at one time the favorite among 3D animators.

It had 32 bit windows only. does that mean it wasn't ready for primetime?

Based on the naysayer criteria being offered here, that seems to be the case.

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 08:32 PM
the important thing to pay attention to right now is how does the AMD64 design stack up in 32-bit apps? If you totally ignore it's ability t run 64-bit code and focus solely on its 32-bit speed then it is undoubtedly an extremely fast design. Even if it wasn't 64-bit it would be a next generation chip, and I think that AMD should place more emphasis on how fast its 32-bit speeds are because 64-bit capability is far from the only reason to buy one.

Personally, my dual PIII-S 1.26GHz is chugging along nicely, so I have the luxury of time- I'm waiting for Tejas to decide. (I still think that a design based on the Tualatin would have been a better route than the P4...)

matty429
12-22-2003, 08:48 PM
What the hell are you talking about.....

You must be threatend by something....Where are your soo called facts.....

Just because you have win64 doesn't mean everyone else does....

Get off your high horse ....mr cool...

you've must have a small penis or something...

why are people soo damed rude.....

Novakog
12-22-2003, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by MadMax

We havent even seen anything beyond the reference boards from nVidia and nothing from the major manufacturers.

I'd be surprised if yo see them before April or later.

Don't buy an FX, it isn't the real FX. the 939 pin FX is coming real soon now. WE'll overlook the fact that we are talking at least 6 months away. ANd nothing prevents the current FX from kicking serious ass. Do you have any idea how much work you can get done in 6 months?


While everything else you say was good, you're release dates are mostly skeptical. No one actually knows when the release date for the 939 pin is, but I'm guessing it will be in H1 2004, maybe even Q1 2004, considering that motherboard manufactures already have motherboards for 939 pin processors.

http://www.fullprograms.co.uk/article1938.html

And I would bet the nForce3 250 would be very soon. It was originally rumored to come out with the A64s, and then in December (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipsets/display/20031105144737.html), but we know that's gonna happen, and MB companies are probably nearing completion with them:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mainboards/display/20031121142330.html
Note that this article was a month ago.

So in terms of what will probably happen, I think 939 pin will be in late Q1 2004 or early Q2 2004 and the nF3 250 will be sometime in Q1 2004, probably early Q1 2004, but it's all just spec at this point.

Anyway, the reason that AMD recommends the VIA chipset is because the nF3 150 doesn't have full HT capability. The nF3 150 has 800 mHz HT with 3.2 Gb/s bandwidth, and the K8T800 has 1600 mHz with 6.4 Gb/s. And the K8T800 does in fact perform better.

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-22.html

That said, it is probably much less reliable and I would go for the nF3 150 now if I had to choose, but I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the nF3 250 does have full HT capability.

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 09:03 PM
yup, NF3 250 has full HT (HT in this case meaning HyperTransport, not HyperThreading). But, the 150 still peforms just fine, if not better than the VIA, with it's slightly limited HT.

MadMax
12-22-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by matty429
What the hell are you talking about.....

You must be threatend by something....

Get off your high horse ....mr cool...

you've must have a small penis or something...

why are people soo damed rude.....


Soooooo.......

you can't back up anything you've said?

MadMax
12-22-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Novakog
While everything else you say was good, you're release dates are mostly skeptical. No one actually knows when the release date for the 939 pin is, but I'm guessing it will be in H1 2004, maybe even Q1 2004, considering that motherboard manufactures already have motherboards for 939 pin processors.

http://www.fullprograms.co.uk/article1938.html


I don't like to give over zealous release speculations.

H1 2004 could still mena almost 6 months out.

I'm just not real inclined to think 2 weeks from now as others have suggested becsause we have yet to see even prototypes other than nVidia's. when nForce2 came out we saw the A7N8X boards in pictures at lest for months before the release.

SK8N months before it was released.

It only stands to reason it will be at least a few months after we see the first pics on the internet before the board is actually available.,

Also that article you quote is a bit misleading. It isn't a chipset for the 939 pin specifically, it is a generic 64 bit chipset for A64. ECS is making a board based on it. It has been reviewed a couple times in the past 2 weeks.

And it has only been just released. Yet another reason why I think it will be awhile before we actually see them.

And I would bet the nForce3 250 would be very soon. It was originally rumored to come out with the A64s, and then in December

I also recall the stories that A64 would be released inthe next few weeks, AMD targetting an October release. This was back in 2002. It could happen, but I am really doubtful. Lack of boards being shown and all. We see the boards and it is close. No boards, I wouldn't bet on it.

Anyway, the reason that AMD recommends the VIA chipset is because the nF3 150 doesn't have full HT capability. The nF3 150 has 800 mHz HT with 3.2 Gb/s bandwidth, and the K8T800 has 1600 mHz with 6.4 Gb/s. And the K8T800 does in fact perform better.

Funny thing is, the VIA relies on a slow connection between their Northbridge/Southbridge Which kind of makes the full speed HT pointless.

This is why when compared, nForce3 and VIA are so close.

Thalaxis
12-22-2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by iC4-
and not really "upgradeable" since it will move to a new socket in some time.

AMD has committed to supporting at least through the end of
2004, by which time new memory standards will probably render
that issue moot anyway.

Also, Novakog -- Maya prefers the Athlon in general over the P4,
and the K8 just widens the margin... even for rendering, though I
don't know whether or not the same applies to Mental Ray. My
guess is that it will, but that's just a guess.

Thalaxis
12-22-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by MadMax

The one thing that came up was early Opterons had a very minor issue with SSE2, and I am not even sure if those were in the betas or the actual shipping units.


They were, but the issues were timings; the result was mediocre
SSE2 FP performance, which for the Opteron wasn't particularly
important at launch anyway, since they were stable.

In any case, the currently available models are revC, and one of
the reasons that the floating point performance of the Opteron
got so much better over the last few months is those tweaks.

And then there's the small amount of OEM support from
companys like Boxx, RackSaver, and Xi, not to mention the small
fry like IBM, HP, and Sun. Somehow, I doubt that ANY of them
would be on board at all if the Opterons weren't ready for
primtime.

flipnap
12-22-2003, 11:09 PM
guys thanks so much for the input.. i think ive come down to two motherboards here for the opteron monster..

Asus

either the

SK8N

or the


SK8V

I guess the main differecne being the chipsets..

thanks again yall

3Dfx_Sage
12-22-2003, 11:15 PM
I'd say go with the N. Looks like you'll have quite a beast there :D

MadMax
12-22-2003, 11:21 PM
Between those 2 DEFINITELY the SK8N.

flipnap
12-22-2003, 11:34 PM
the "N" takes the cake then.. thanks guys.. ill keep ya posted and let you know when "IT LIVES!!!! IT LIVES!!!!"

so it looks like this..

Case: 100396 - PS 380W - Antec Sonata Piano Black Quiet
Power Supply: 100545 - 400W - Zalman Noiseless 400 Watt PS
Motherboard: 110237 - ASUS nForce3 ASUS-SK8N DDR ECC RAID SATA

Processor: 120847 - AMD Opteron 146 2.0GHz 1MB 64/32-Bit

Heatsink Fan: 130956 - Thermaltake AMD K8 Venus 7+ Highest Perfo

Memory: 140899-2 DDR (400) 3200 REG ECC - 1 GB Corsair
Case Fan: 100873 - Antec 80mm Case Fan Quiet Fan 2600 RPM

there we go boys... thanks a lot and let me know if you see anything buggy in that setup.. course im gonna add the SATA drives and graphics card later (geforce ti4600)

thanks again so much for all your help :applause:

flipnap the gripdog

edit.. just in case your wondering, it all came in around 1200 us dollars.. not too bad, not real good but not too bad..

Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 12:11 AM
It sounds like you've made a good choice. It ought to be quite a
sweet machine :)

Novakog
12-23-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by Thalaxis
[B]Also, Novakog -- Maya prefers the Athlon in general over the P4, and the K8 just widens the margin... even for rendering, though I don't know whether or not the same applies to Mental Ray. My guess is that it will, but that's just a guess.

Yes, very true. Except, I think for MRay (batch rendering) the P4s do better because they make use of HT (now, hyperthreading), haven't seen any benches though, I'm just guessing. For me, it'd be a tough choice. But for me, I'd be going with the Athlon 64 because I play games, that is what would be the deciding factor. Hmmm...

Originally posted by MadMax
I don't like to give over zealous release speculations.

H1 2004 could still mena almost 6 months out.



Yes I know, I was just saying how you said at least 6 months and I said at most 6 months.



I'm just not real inclined to think 2 weeks from now as others have suggested becsause we have yet to see even prototypes other than nVidia's. when nForce2 came out we saw the A7N8X boards in pictures at lest for months before the release.
SK8N months before it was released.


Look down, there is a board with the nF3 250.



It only stands to reason it will be at least a few months after we see the first pics on the internet before the board is actually available.,

Also that article you quote is a bit misleading. It isn't a chipset for the 939 pin specifically, it is a generic 64 bit chipset for A64. ECS is making a board based on it. It has been reviewed a couple times in the past 2 weeks.

And it has only been just released. Yet another reason why I think it will be awhile before we actually see them.

True, very true, we have seen no boards of the 939 yet.

I also recall the stories that A64 would be released inthe next few weeks, AMD targetting an October release. This was back in 2002. It could happen, but I am really doubtful. Lack of boards being shown and all. We see the boards and it is close. No boards, I wouldn't bet on it.



BTW, just to clarify this, in this paragraph you're referring to the nF3 right? I did provide you with a link to show the nF3 250 board, still not completely done but mostly at this point.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mainbo...1121142330.html
This was a month ago.



Funny thing is, the VIA relies on a slow connection between their Northbridge/Southbridge Which kind of makes the full speed HT pointless.

This is why when compared, nForce3 and VIA are so close.

That, I did not know. Thanks. Still though, check the benches I posted (there were a couple more that had similar results, the K8T800 is almost universally faster than the nForce3 250, and by a fair amount, though not by a huge amount.

Novakog
12-23-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by matty429
What the hell are you talking about.....

You must be threatend by something....Where are your soo called facts.....

Just because you have win64 doesn't mean everyone else does....

Get off your high horse ....mr cool...

you've must have a small penis or something...

why are people soo damed rude.....

Yeah, so wait. Not ONLY did you not back up anything (as MadMax said), you insulted him and then called HIM rude? I'm so confused as to how he became rude by making an intellectual argument, while you're insulting him...

Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Novakog

Yes, very true. Except, I think for MRay (batch rendering) the P4s do better because they make use of HT (now, hyperthreading), haven't seen any benches though, I'm just guessing. For me, it'd be a tough choice. But for me, I'd be going with the Athlon 64 because I play games, that is what would be the deciding factor. Hmmm...


That could go either way. My guess is that MR will, due to its
RISC-oriented origins, get along better with the Opteron than
with the P4. The question of course, even if that is the case, is
how much... because it's still possible that HT could still give the
P4 enough of a boost to outrun the AthlonFX.

And then there's the Prescott wild card to confuse things further
:)

MadMax
12-23-2003, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by Novakog That, I did not know. Thanks. Still though, check the benches I posted (there were a couple more that had similar results, the K8T800 is almost universally faster than the nForce3 250, and by a fair amount, though not by a huge amount.

I think you meant nForce3 150, not 250.

250 will have full HT and should substantially outperform VIA on every benchmark.

matty429
12-23-2003, 02:06 AM
Tell me ...what am I supposed to back up....

Everyone here is talking speculation, or chatter about what they feel is best...I never asked anyone for Facts...I never shot anyone down...I just Simply placed my opinion..in a Seemingly biased thread...witch turns out It was....I must of made someone mad when I said Nforce..or something...I Don't see where everyone elses facts are coming from...

Soo why the hypocracy?

MadMax
12-23-2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by matty429
Tell me ...what am I supposed to back up....

Everyone here is talking speculation, or chatter about what they feel is best...I never asked anyone for Facts...I never shot anyone down...I just Simply placed my opinion..in a Seemingly biased thread...

It's obvious you just don't get it.

You made an opinion that contradicts proven fact, about whether the 64 bit is ready for primetime.

ILM thinks so.

Sandia Labs thinks so.

IBM thinks so.

Sun thinks so.

HP thinks so.

A whole lot of people think so.

You are the only one offering an opinion that can't even be backed up with any basis in facts.

Even you can't be that stupid.

matty429
12-23-2003, 02:41 AM
How is you saying that a fact....

Show me the facts....

It's simple dude....It's still an opinion....

I don't see HP or IBM selling sutch machines

3Dfx_Sage
12-23-2003, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by matty429
I don't see HP or IBM selling sutch machines http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=8654559&storeId=1&langId=-1&catalogId=-840

matty429
12-23-2003, 03:27 AM
ahahah..."availlability 2 weeks"....

That's where this all started....

MadMax
12-23-2003, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by matty429
How is you saying that a fact....

Show me the facts....

It's simple dude....It's still an opinion....

I don't see HP or IBM selling sutch machines

we did. You didn't get it. I rest my case..........

matty429
12-23-2003, 05:42 AM
Yeah...that's an easy way to back out of it....

Whos...We?...are you two people....

3Dfx_Sage
12-23-2003, 06:04 AM
if you had paid attention you would have noticed that that link I gave was only the processor module... and upgrade for already available servers.

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/eserver/opteron/

matty429
12-23-2003, 06:05 AM
Maybe you should give the correct link....

3Dfx_Sage
12-23-2003, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by matty429
Maybe you should give the correct link.... I assumed that you were intelligent enough to devise that, if IBM is selling the Opteron CPU's as an upgade for their servers, that they must have products TO upgrade with an Opteron CPU. Apparently, I was wrong with my assumption.

edit:
and don't expect a reply for a good 18 hours as I now must go to sleep so that I can get up in four hours because I have to work tomorrow... and the next day.... and the next... and the next... and the next... and the next... >8 (

Novakog
12-23-2003, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by Thalaxis
That could go either way. My guess is that MR will, due to its
RISC-oriented origins, get along better with the Opteron than
with the P4. The question of course, even if that is the case, is
how much... because it's still possible that HT could still give the
P4 enough of a boost to outrun the AthlonFX.

And then there's the Prescott wild card to confuse things further
:)

Ya, MR could go either way.

I think you meant nForce3 150, not 250.

Ya, typo, you know. So many numbers to keep track of :scream:!

matty429
12-23-2003, 06:20 AM
Ahh...3dfx_sage must be the other guy in "we"

Look...If My opinion is that 64 bit is not primetime ...Then thats how it will be...
I won't buy 64 untill a second or 3rd revision of the motherboards comes out...
If you guys want to be the guinny pigs thats fine.

Just like how MadMax doesn't know how to work a MSI board and wants to tell everyone that they dont work...when I have MSI boards working right now...and I've never had a problem with them...


o·pin·ion Pronunciation Key (o-pnyn)


1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: “The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion”

MadMax
12-23-2003, 06:22 AM
IBM e325 series

Compaq Presario 8000Z

HP a450e

took less than 2 minutes on their websites to find.

It's always nice to see people willing to make a fool of themselves in public for our amusement.

Keep up the good work Matty!

Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by matty429

Look...If My opinion is that 64 bit is not primetime ...Then thats how it will be...
I won't buy 64 untill a second or 3rd revision of the motherboards comes out...


Actually, they already are. Don't forget, the Athlon64 wasn't the
first K8 launched. The K8's been out since May, and was available
in workstations by the end of June, so it's already been out in the
field, and tried and tested.


Just like how MadMax doesn't know how to work a MSI board and wants to tell everyone that they dont work...when I have MSI boards working right now...and I've never had a problem with them...


I have had great success with MSI boards also. And actually so
has AMD, because without MSI's boards the Athlon wouldn't have
flown at all, since they were the only motherboard maker with an
Athlon board available at the time.

On the other hand, my experience with Asus is... well, worse. My
attempt at getting an Athlon running on an nForce2 board by
Asus ended with a toasted Athlon. I was definitely not pleased
with that, and the only reason that I ended up with MSI's Via
board instead of their nForce2 board is that I got tired of waiting,
as their nForce2 boards were out of stock when I tried to order
them. But that MSI board, even with a Via chipset, has been
very solid for close to two years now.

MadMax
12-23-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Thalaxis
I have had great success with MSI boards also. And actually so
has AMD, because without MSI's boards the Athlon wouldn't have
flown at all, since they were the only motherboard maker with an
Athlon board available at the time.


You may have missed the earlier post about this in this thread.

I am still trying to figure out how a dimm socket not soldered to the motherboard, or a loose CPU socket is my fault, but then again, Matty doesn't seem to be using much logic in his tirades.

Most of the AMD centric websites had a huge flood of problems with the K7 Master series, (AMD 760 chipset) which were basically based on very poor QC at MSI at the time. This left a very large open doorway for Epox to charge in and become one of the more popular Athlon boards ever made, the 8K7A+

Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by MadMax
You may have missed the earlier post about this in this thread.


Possible, it does happen at times, especially when there are
multiple replies between viewings.


I am still trying to figure out how a dimm socket not soldered to the motherboard, or a loose CPU socket is my fault, but then again, Matty doesn't seem to be using much logic in his tirades.


I've not run into that problem with ANY motherboard yet, but
that's orthogonal to the discussion.


Most of the AMD centric websites had a huge flood of problems with the K7 Master series, (AMD 760 chipset) which were basically based on very poor QC at MSI at the time. This left a very large open doorway for Epox to charge in and become one of the more popular Athlon boards ever made, the 8K7A+


MSI certainly seems to have cleaned up their act since then.
Sometimes it takes a fire under the ass to make things like that
happen...

Emmortal1
12-23-2003, 06:56 PM
If I damned a hardware manufacturer for a faulty peice of hardware, I would be doing my computational operations on a piece of paper and with a pencil. I have yet to experience a single hardware company that has not had major issues in one of their product releases to date. Granted things like Max mentioned are not as prevailent as they used to be in past years, but still to this day I've received DOA componants and overall shotty workmanship from just about every manufacturer out there.

Emmortal

matty429
12-23-2003, 07:02 PM
Yeah....I think Iv'e had about 3 or 4 Abit boards..and the PS2 mouse port burned out on all of them....

But as far as parts falling off the motherboard...I think madMax needs to be mad at the Freight company for that one...sounds like a pallet took a spill somewhere..

MadMax
12-23-2003, 07:04 PM
And for a lot of people, that is enough to form a bias.

I've always had lots of Abit products, but for awhile they were the bash-puppy of the month for cheap capacitors and other failings with lots of people saying they would never buy another Abit product again.

But I never had a problem with them.

Basic human nature. Place blame and then go somewhere else. Even if it is back to a company that you had previously had a grudge against.

I see it every day.

Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 07:11 PM
My experience with Abit is limited, but positive. No company is
perfect, especially when they're dealing with stuff that's this
complex.

But MSI's put out quite a few very good products, so I don't
agree with him on that score, even if they have had their duds.

Emmortal1
12-23-2003, 07:12 PM
Indeed. We all have our baises and opinions based on our own experiences, that's the beauty of it all :)

Emmortal

flipnap
12-23-2003, 07:13 PM
True.. At this point im blaming my parents for the couple of screws loose in my head, but thats another thread.. in a galaxy far far away

MadMax
12-23-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by matty429
But as far as parts falling off the motherboard...I think madMax needs to be mad at the Freight company for that one...sounds like a pallet took a spill somewhere..


I would say it would have to be a miraculous bit of pallet dumping for solder to be completely knocked clean without a trace off of every pin on the socket holding it to the motherboard, leaving a nice clean set of pin holes on the motherboard, and shiny clean pins on the socket.

Especially leaving no trace of he solder in the box.

What are the odds of all those things occuring?

Novakog
12-23-2003, 08:20 PM
Ya MadMax, I'm gonna disagree with you there. It's not that solder isn't strong, like you can't break it or anything, but it doesn't "attach" well if you know what I mean. In other words, the solder itself doesn't fuse particularly well with other things, although it certainly does with itself. So I would say in shipping, it could have easily knocked solder cleanly off.

MadMax
12-23-2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Novakog
Ya MadMax, I'm gonna disagree with you there. It's not that solder isn't strong, like you can't break it or anything, but it doesn't "attach" well if you know what I mean. In other words, the solder itself doesn't fuse particularly well with other things, although it certainly does with itself. So I would say in shipping, it could have easily knocked solder cleanly off.

Ok, you guys are not getting this.....

The K7 Master had 2 dimm slots.

One of them had zero solder on any pin. Even if ALL the solder had been knocked off of only one socket, there would still be solder turds in the plastic package the board was wrapped in.

I could see a couple of them knocked loose, I'd buy into that as possible.

What I don't buy into is that the entire socket was sitting loose in the mounting holes for me to pluck out.

This board left the factory without having had the socket soldered in place.

flipnap
12-23-2003, 08:32 PM
there would still be solder turds

http://www.randomhouse.com/delrey/sample/ilm2gif2.fast.gif

Novakog
12-23-2003, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by MadMax
One of them had zero solder on any pin. Even if ALL the solder had been knocked off of only one socket, there would still be solder turds in the plastic package the board was wrapped in.

Ya, I got that. I was thinking that you didn't realize the board was broken until you opened the plastic, so the solder piece could have fallen out. If you're sure the solder piece didn't fall out then ya, blame MSI.

Emmortal1
12-23-2003, 09:50 PM
Don't blame MSI, blame Canada. Those damn Canadians!
*shake fist*

Emmortal

3Dfx_Sage
12-24-2003, 05:31 PM
ok here's my hateful experience with MSI:
I built a P4 Northwood DDR for a friend using an MSI board because it looked like a really solid and fast board, I had nothing but problems from it. It was just never quite right, and I placed the blame (in my own mind, not out loud) on the link between the keyboard and the chair. I eventually had to take the thing back after about six months and just give him his money back. Well, I ran that thing for I'd say a good six more months and it still was total crap with just about every little tiny annoying-yet-not-quite-deadly glitch you can imagine. Finally one day in a far corner of MSI's website I found an updated FAQ for that board in which there was a small, innocent question: "Doe the xxxxx board work with WindowsXP?" and the answer- "No." Can you believe that crap? They can't get a ******* P4 board to work with WindowsXP? Not only that, but it takes them damn near a year to figure it out? And it was never mentioned in any specs pages or manuals or anything. I lost a lot of money and reputation because of that.

oh yeah, and I got a MSI PIII Via-based board that refuses to work with Via CPU's even though that chipset should love Via CPU's. Oh, and I can't mod it to work with a Tualatin either. I've done the exact same mod to otherboards with the same chipset using the same CPU and it worked, but for some reason the MSI wont.

matty429
12-24-2003, 06:11 PM
Here's Some More Info on PCI-X

Link (http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47613)

3Dfx_Sage
12-24-2003, 06:15 PM
actually, that is NOT PCI-X. PCI-X has been around for quite some time. That is PCI Express, which is totally different than PCI-X. PCI-X is regular PCI 64bit that is running at 100MHz.

matty429
12-24-2003, 06:41 PM
Tamato -Tomoto

Thalaxis
12-24-2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Tamato -Tomoto

Not in this context.

MadMax
12-24-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Tamato -Tomoto

No, it's not.

Regardless how you pronounce it, that round red item that ketchup is derived from is the same thing.

PCI-X and PCI-Express are two completely different things. Educate yourself. Try Google.com LEARN something for a change instead of being insulting and rude.

matty429
12-24-2003, 07:06 PM
Ok ...

PCI X ....press

MadMax
12-24-2003, 07:11 PM
REMOVE THAT AVATAR IMMEDIATELY OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

I WILL NOT TELL YOU AGAIN.

matty429
12-24-2003, 07:23 PM
What Are The CONSEQUENCES

All you can do Is break the law....I didn't

MadMax
12-24-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by matty429
What Are The CONSEQUENCES

All you can do Is break the law....I didn't

Really?

Theft of a registered company trademark.

Like to figure the damages a lawyer could do to you over it?

Thalaxis
12-24-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Ok ...

PCI X ....press

Are you still unaware of the fact that you're saying that two
different bus protocols are the same because they happen to
have some letters in common?

That's a bit like the sales droide at Circuit City who told me that
NEC had bought out Hewlett Packard, because he apparently
couldn't tell the difference between "Hewlett Packard"
and "Packard Bell" even though beyond that coincidence of
names, the two companies had very little in common.

matty429
12-24-2003, 07:31 PM
I realize that.....but I wasnt aware I'm not allowed to use X as part of an acronym....

flipnap
12-24-2003, 07:32 PM
matty, were you using madmax's avatar? is that what happened there? I came back and saw the posts and got really confused (I dont look at names, just avatars) man, what was the point in that? is that really what I saw or am i just losing it?

matty429
12-24-2003, 07:33 PM
Nah ...I was being an @ss...I apologize

Thalaxis
12-24-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by matty429
I realize that.....but I wasnt aware I'm not allowed to use X as part of an acronym....

You used one acronym as an abbreviation for another, while each
represented different (though related) technologies.

Novakog
12-25-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by MadMax
Really?

Theft of a registered company trademark.

Like to figure the damages a lawyer could do to you over it?

Well, don't get pissed, he didn't know it was a company trademark, I certainly didn't. In either case, you're using someone else's phrase in your signature without even putting quotes around it, that's plagiarism right there, wanna go to court about it? Nah, I'm just playin (although you should put quotes on it), just don't get pissed, it was a matter of his ignorance not stupidity, he simply didn't know.

And Matty: I realize that.....but I wasnt aware I'm not allowed to use X as part of an acronym....

You can, but it confuses us. Stop doing it 1) as a favor to everyone else, because it's not that hard to write express, 2) you might get a habit of it, and do it when it might really hurt you (what if you accidentally put PCI X on a job app?), and 3) it makes you look really dumb (as you can clearly tell from the previous posts in this thread)

3Dfx_Sage
12-25-2003, 12:41 AM
PCI-X is the designation for a specific type of PCI slot that is not PCI Express. PCI-X is the actual name of something that is NOT PCI Express. I occasionally see PCI Express abbrevieated PCI-E, but if when you say PCI-X then you are talking about something that is very different from PCI Express.

GregHess
12-25-2003, 03:22 AM
And to think I missed this thread. Sigh. Such missed opportunities to lay ignorance on its back and show it that their not just tiny white specs, but giant flaming balls of gas!

:D

"64 not being primetime...."

That goes along with...

640K ought to be enough for anybody--Bill Gates, 1981.

Thalaxis
12-25-2003, 04:55 AM
I'm willing to be that even once XP64 SP2 ships, software vendors
start releasing AMD64 native ports, and AMD ramps up K8
production to competitive volumes, there will still be people who
say that AMD64 isn't ready for primetime.

matty429
12-25-2003, 07:54 AM
Does that make them wrong....?

Thalaxis
12-25-2003, 02:29 PM
Unless you're being sarcastic, that question doesn't deserve an
answer, given what's been presented on this thread.

matty429
12-25-2003, 07:23 PM
Whatever....I'll bet theres more people that think like me ...I don't know anyone with a A64 yet....

GregHess
12-25-2003, 09:50 PM
Ignorance is bliss.

I suggest you stop reading, and just enjoy your holidays.

matty429
12-25-2003, 10:07 PM
Obiviously I don't care what You suggest...

If you guys want to buy overated overpriced hardware..who's to tell you you can't...same goes for someone who wants to wait For the Cpu's to go to 90nm, be half the price and twice the speed..but the majority of the issue is to not go with a platform that has 1 generation of motherboards to decide from...

"""""""""According to currently available details, maximum current (IDD) of future 64-bit processors from AMD will be 80A, while maximum thermal power will be 105W. These are mandatory requirements for mainboards in the second half of the year. The requirements are only for Socket 939 mainboards, as 754-pin and 940-pin products have very limited future

Apparently, AMD’s 90nm chips will have Vcore at 1.20V – 1.35V, in contrast to current core voltage of 1.40 – 1.55V for 64-bit chips. The first 90nm chips are expected to hit 2.60GHz, but AMD currently does not specify the top speed bin for its new CPUs.

Intel's Prescott 3.60GHz processors are expected to dissipate up to 103W of heat early next year.

Before its 90nm chips emerge, AMD will bring out some new versions of its current 0.13 micron chips. The new CG revision targeted to be in production in late Q1 2004 will resolve some issues with current AMD64 performance-mainstream and high-end processors, such as 2T DRAM timing enhancements to enable desktop customers to achieve higher density and/or higher speed memory (the change may be adored by overclockers) and removal of requirement for use of identical DIMMs for the 2nd and the 3rd DIMMs in 3-DIMM mainboards. There will be CPUID change to “00000F4AH” as well as OPN change for the new processors. -----Xbit Labs.."""""""""


Have fun buys...

3Dfx_Sage
12-25-2003, 10:11 PM
please put in quotes what are your words and what are x-bit's words. you're making it sound like they said some things that I doubt they did, and would probably be a little upset if people thought they did.

MadMax
12-25-2003, 10:26 PM
It was quite clear early on that it would be more productive to argue with a toilet seat.

Like greg said, ignorance is bliss.

matty429
12-25-2003, 10:32 PM
Yes..It must be..Enjoy your new short lived product cycle...

flipnap
12-25-2003, 11:03 PM
Enjoy your new short lived product cycle...

everything has a short lived product cycle in this industry, i mean everything..dont you know that about 99 percent of these things are already outdated by the time they hit the public?

its the holidays, everyone sit back and relax.. ;)

by the way, my new/outdated/crappy/great/junky/awesome/rockin opteron will be here in 2 weeks..

Thalaxis
12-26-2003, 02:13 AM
AMD also stated that they'd have new processors for existing
socket 940 boards throughout the next year.

And the motherboards out there now are not all first generation;
the first generation is what hit the streets in June with the
Opteron launch.

The Opteron's been on the market actually since May (that was a
limited launch), so it's not like it hasn't been tried and tested yet.
It has... and it's being put into production, though mostly in web
and database servers right now, mainly because it's already
fast enough to clean the Xeon's clocks in those markets, even
without the high-performance optimizing compilers that The
Portland Group and PathWorks are working on, not to mention
the one that will most likely be the ubiquitous one (Microsoft's). I
think even CodePlay plans to release a vectorizing compiler for
AMD64, though since they're primarily aiming for the game
developer market, that's probably going to have to wait on the
AMD64 port of WinXP64.

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