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PixelVampire
12-17-2003, 12:31 PM
Greg :bowdown: here is youre new thread :-)
I am getting a new PC :-) I will take the video card (Nvidia Ti4600 128Mb) + zip drive away from the old PC and put it in the new one.

Now the biggest problem I have is should I go 64 bit? I feel that in 1.7-2 year I will update everything anyway? This will serve me well till then???? What do you say?
The CPU and Mobo are quiet expensive for that. I am intermediate level in Maya. I do graphic design and 3d, maybe get into bit of video editing in the future. Keeping that in mind
the shopping list for my new PC stands as follows please comment -

1- 40GB IBM HD for system
160GB IBM HD for storage (7200rpm 8mb cache both)

2- PC case- Thermaltake Xaser III V2000A (7case fans :-o)
My room will sound like an airport :-)
Review-

http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20030428/case_review-49.html

3- MOBO- Asus A7N8X Deluxe NForce 2, Lan, FireWire
review-
http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=221

4- CPU- AMD Athlon XP 2800+FSB 333 Socket A - 512k
****What do you think? Should I go for a higher one? This one was the best for the price/performance ratio.

5- ***RAM- 1.5 GB. Now the guy was showing me some kingston RAM which had blue cover thing on it for heat dissipation(dual data...). And he was saying that it is fast etc etc although it's quiet expensive than the normal RAM.
Should I go for the kingston one or is it that an overkill.
Here is the link to my local shops memory modules. Can you tell me which one I should get for the above Asus MOBO-

http://shop.highwayshop.ch/prog/commerce/result.asp?id_categorie=65&start=1&categorie=Rams

6- Standard Samsung Cd burner + seperate standard DVD ROM drive. To burn on the fly.

7- Power supply-
Alimentation 550W - Double ventilation

8- Heatsink undecided at this moment.

Did I miss anything???? Advice guys.

Depending on how hard I work and accomplish my portfolio tasks... I will reward myself with a DVD burner in the future and if I move up more up withMaya then a Pro card :cool:

GregHess
12-17-2003, 12:51 PM
2- PC case- Thermaltake Xaser III V2000A (/case fans :-o)

You can cut down on price if you went with an antec/chieftech equivilant.

Not AS snazzy looking, but about half the price :).

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/11-125-274-01.JPG

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=7&manufactory=1502&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1

To cut down on case noise, you can pick up some adjustable rpm fans. Enermax makes some inexpensive ones (about 6 bucks each) which allows you to change the fan rpm...based on whether you want a quieter case or more airflow.

You can also get one of those fancy fan controller nobby things on the front to help control fan rpm's...thus cutting WAY down on noise.

- CPU- AMD Athlon XP 2800+FSB 333 Socket A - 512k

If you needed some more cash (not cache), you could downgrade/upgrade to a 2700+ XP 256k. Depending on what your exactly doing, it can actually be slightly faster then the 2800+ Barton.

- RAM- 1.5 GB. Now

I usually stick by Mushkin, Corsair XMS, and Crucial when it comes to ram. Kingston Hyper-X is the 4th down on my list.

Ram is something where a bit more investment can make a big difference.

7- Power supply-
Alimentation 550W - Double ventilation

I'd stick to an Antec Truepower. A 330watt should be sufficent, but you could easily bump that up to the 420's (i think thats the next step up, not sure off hand) and still have plenty of power, as well as a 3 yr warranty :).

8- Heatsink undecided at this moment.

I'm a big fan of THERMALRIGHT heatsinks.

The SLK series is excellent and extremely efficent at dropping cpu temps.

If your caught for cash...

The Coolermaster Aero series is pretty decent. For about 15-17 bucks you get a RPM controlled blower, that is about 25% more efficent (and quieter) then a stock AMD HSF.

PixelVampire
12-17-2003, 01:05 PM
1- OK I will go for this one then-
Dimm DDR Corsair 512Mb 434Mhz
XMS - PC 3700

Greg one thing I was not clear on. He said that there are only 2 slots for the double date blue memory module on the asus board. Is that right? I see 3 slots.

http://uk.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?langs=11&m=A7N8X%20Deluxe

2- Greg the case I pointed out has the control knobs in the front.
I think I will get it because he is giving me a good price in return for 1 hour of maya training.

http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20030428/case_review-49.html

MattClary
12-17-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by GregHess
[I]
Not AS snazzy looking, but about half the price :).


That's my EXACT case, with a 420w Antec power supply! :beer:

Looks cool with red cold cathodes in it.

GregHess
12-17-2003, 01:32 PM
Matt,

Those are the cases I use for every new machine in the department :). The professors and doctors love the fact they can chose colors...then I throw in a side fan grill (usually biohazard) and pick up some LED coolermaster fan's of similar color, and their lovin it.

Plus those things are an utter joy to work in. Everytime I see an older case design, or competitiors...I cringe.

(Btw pixel, the thermaltake uses the same antec interior :)...oh and stop posting tomshardware reviews, you know I hate that site)

You don't need PC3700...PC3200 should be fine for your application.

PixelVampire
12-17-2003, 01:34 PM
"oh and stop posting tomshardware reviews, you know I hate that site)"

I know :-)

PixelVampire
12-17-2003, 02:17 PM
Greg if you look at the image and then at the 3 memory slots. Two slots are blue in colour and one is black? WHY??? What does that mean?

http://uk.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x-e-d/overview.htm#

MattClary
12-17-2003, 02:23 PM
If I may: Those are the sockets you need to use if you are going to use dual channel memory.

GregHess
12-17-2003, 02:29 PM
PixelVamp,

Download the asus manual and see what it says.

The nice thing about retail board manufacturers is they almost always have the actual motherboard manual available for download in PDF form.

Take advantage of this fact by checking out the actual specs and recommendations BEFORE buying.

MadMax
12-17-2003, 05:17 PM
Personally I would go for the 64 bit for sa number of reasons....

First off, as a 32 bit processor it is fantastic and has SSE2 for apps that need it.

Second, the A64 3000+ has just come out, it is around 200.00 give or take a few bucks.

third, there are a number of motherboards available for it that are around the same price or less than that A7N8X board you are looking at.

fourth, I wouldn't buy anything from Asus. They suck. I bought the A7N8X, I love the board. However Asus is incredibly slow to release bios updates, their tech support absolutely is the worst you'll be likely to find.

Fifth, the adoption of 64 bit is going a lot faster than people originally planned. A number of companies have announced 64 bit support. DiVX, Nero (burning software), Ulead and a few others.

And since this chip supports 32 and 64 bit, you just can't lose either way.

Thorlyn
12-17-2003, 07:29 PM
I think your in a good place right now as far as the main components. Good performance for your value. I wouldnt worry about 64bit, theres no doubt that its faster and neater, but the dollar to performance ratio just isnt there yet.

A few personal opinions. The thermaltake case is a bit overkill even if you want to be styling. Cheiftech or antech would be my prefrance. That power supply is way overkill. Its just going to make more noise. I would recomend a better power supply rather than a big one. I have the antech truepower 380w running 6HDD 2 CPUS, 2 CD/DVD drives, Two videocards, 5PCI Cards, etc. And I have room to grow with 380w. But the cool thing is that I have 8fans and its wisper quiet. The powersupply controls the speed of the fans based on temp of the case. Better to have a quality 330w or 380w than a normal +500w. I am also a big fan of zalman CPU coolers. Quiet and cool.

You may think quiet isnt a big deal but im telling you once you get a quiet system there is no going back. And its not that expensive if you plan on it from the begining.

MadMax
12-17-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Thorlyn
I think your in a good place right now as far as the main components. Good performance for your value. I wouldnt worry about 64bit, theres no doubt that its faster and neater, but the dollar to performance ratio just isnt there yet.

Absolutely not accurate.

The price difference between that 2800 and the A64 3000 is less than 100.00.

As a 32 bit chip, the A64 is a much better design than the XP's are and head to head there is a substantial difference in many areas of performance.

And since the original poster states he uses Maya, he most certainly will notice the difference.

At less than a hundred dollars, and less than 6 months before M$ plans to release XP64, it is a perfect time to get it.

Thorlyn
12-17-2003, 10:10 PM
I didnt realize that the a64 3000 had come down that far. I agree that the A64 is a notably better 32bit cpu.
you do have to add the slightly higher cost of a A64 mb in this equation. That puts a larger than $100 differance. With that differance you can buy a second HDD and run raid-0. That would give you a better performance boost that the differance between a xp2800 and 64-3000. I cant help but to think that raid would give you better bang for your buck. SSE optimizations could change that however, but not many apps are optimised enough, is maya heavily SSE2 optimised?

Ice Czar
12-17-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by GregHess

7- Power supply-
Alimentation 550W - Double ventilation

I'd stick to an Antec Truepower. A 330watt should be sufficent, but you could easily bump that up to the 420's (i think thats the next step up, not sure off hand) and still have plenty of power, as well as a 3 yr warranty :).


I agree completely, that was the one item I thought was a serious problem
(but I favor Crucial RAM as well)

check this out its in Japanese but the translated version doesnt add much except load time

http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen/tester/index.html
http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen/tester2/index.html
the PSU are identified in English

translated
http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate?wl_lp=JA-en&wl_glossary=gl1&wl_fl=2&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fterasan.okiraku-pc.net%2Fdengen%2Findex.html&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fterasan.okiraku-pc.net%2Fdengen%2Ftester%2Findex.html
http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate?wl_lp=JA-en&wl_glossary=gl1&wl_fl=2&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fterasan.okiraku-pc.net%2Fdengen%2Findex.html&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fterasan.okiraku-pc.net%2Fdengen%2Ftester2%2Findex.html

the voltage regulation of the True Power are all bone flat


and the following qoute from AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1774) (page 8)

""The ripple is the variation in voltage over a particular rail. Like we mentioned on the previous page, too much fluxuation in voltage can lead to damaged hardware.
A surprising fact we dug up during this review was that the majority of damaged RAM returned to memory manufacturers is destoryed by fluctuations in the voltage."

PixelVampire
12-17-2003, 10:27 PM
Excellent more food for thought.
Just to keep my options open any reccomendations for a descent 64bit MOBO?
I will start googling as well.

Ice Czar
12-17-2003, 10:41 PM
well If Im not mistaken all AMD compatible 64bit mobos are duallys

if you find one that isnt, I need a 64bit home for a Athlon 2500+


EDIT for clarification > sorry I thought you meant 64bit\66MHz or PCI-X, there are no AMD compatible 64bit PCI slot mobos Ive found yet that arent dual CPU, Ive been looking

MadMax
12-17-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Thorlyn

you do have to add the slightly higher cost of a A64 mb in this equation. That puts a larger than $100 differance.


Not really.

That A7N8X is a pricey board at 129.00 for the deluxe.

Athlon64 boards can run from 98.00 to around 132.00, some higher if they are loaded with stuff like Gigabit ethernet.

I would avoid a VIA board though, they suck.

Maya is not SSE2 optimized at all it would appear as AthlonXP will beat the P4 fairly easily.

However SSE2 is not the only thing in favor of the A64. Although for things like editing and encoding, the SSE2 makes that A64 look pretty attractive.

PixelVampire
12-17-2003, 11:28 PM
Mad Max you have a point. I have to be careful what I buy. I don't want to get burnt. The XP2800 is 170 swiss francs where as the AMD64/3200 is 669 Swiss francs.
Although i read that to be able to use Premier Pro you will need SSE2 optimization.
It's was guys at Premier/Photoshop forum who said I should not get anything below a 450watt power supply.

Mad Max your signature reminded me of a saying- "Make friends on the way up because you will need them on the way down" :-)

MadMax
12-17-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by PixelVampire
Mad Max you have a point. I have to be careful what I buy. I don't want to get burnt. The XP2800 is 170 swiss francs where as the AMD64/3200 is 669 Swiss francs.
Although i read that to be able to use Premier Pro you will need SSE2 optimization.
It's was guys at Premier/Photoshop forum who said I should not get anything below a 450watt power supply.

Mad Max your signature reminded me of a saying- "Make friends on the way up because you will need them on the way down" :-)

Okay, read my post carefully....

I said AMD64 3000, not 3200.

The 3000 was just released, it is just over 200.00 USD, not sure what that equates to where you are.

Premiere is not exactly the best application you could use for editing. A lot of people will tell you premiere sucks.

Although I would be more inclined to suggest Blade 2.2 from In-Sync, you can also use Vegas Video 4.0 Both are much better products.

PixelVampire
12-18-2003, 12:01 AM
Athlon 64 FX 51 what the hell is that ...ok the 64bit 3200 runs at 2GHz while the FX 51 clocks in at 2.2GHz

Anyway Madmax I know you said 3000 it's just that so far I could only find the price of 3200 locally....

The exchange rate is multiply swiss price by .8

64 bit 3200 CPU is 679 swiss francs so we are talking US$540
AMD Athlon XP 3200+ is $400
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ is $157

You are right about Premier but i am not a hardcore editor. I do like my Adobe stuff plus Premier Pro is a big step up from the old Premier.
Integrates nicely with Ecore + PS etc.

MadMax
12-18-2003, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by PixelVampire
Anyway Madmax I know you said 3000 it's just that so far I could only find the price of 3200 locally....


Just keep your eyes open. It's very new, only a handful of dealers here have it listed.

2 weeks from now you should be able to find it easily.

Jb5k1
12-18-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by MadMax
Absolutely not accurate.

The price difference between that 2800 and the A64 3000 is less than 100.00.

As a 32 bit chip, the A64 is a much better design than the XP's are and head to head there is a substantial difference in many areas of performance.

And since the original poster states he uses Maya, he most certainly will notice the difference.

At less than a hundred dollars, and less than 6 months before M$ plans to release XP64, it is a perfect time to get it.

WHAT'S LESS THAN $100???

I can't find a 64 bit that cheap ANYWHERE

MadMax
12-18-2003, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Jb5k1
WHAT'S LESS THAN $100???

I can't find a 64 bit that cheap ANYWHERE

read the quote again before you pee yourself.

PixelVampire
12-18-2003, 07:40 AM
It's 2 months old but for anyone interested-

"When 64-bit technology matures and catches up software wise gamers, artists, musicians and those doing professional graphic such as CAD and MAYA will be in for a treat as realism will be more visually realized in the 64-bit environment. I think AMD deserves credit here as this is one bold move on their behalf and shows the direction of the company changing from a here and now attitude to one of looking toward the forthcoming future leaps of technology."

taken from-

http://www.motherboards.org/articlesd/hardware-reviews/1269_1.html

PixelVampire
12-18-2003, 07:47 AM
Links for some AMD64bit MOBO-

1. This one only supports 3GB

http://uk.asus.com/products/mb/socket754/k8v-d/overview.htm

2. This one 8GB

http://uk.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=SK8N&langs=11

3. 8 GB again

http://uk.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?langs=11&m=SK8V

PixelVampire
12-18-2003, 07:54 AM
Good read comparing P4 with G5 and AMD64FX...

http://www.alienware.com/review_pages/review_template.aspx?FileName=review_macworld_1203.asp

PixelVampire
12-18-2003, 10:10 AM
Some more info for people in similar situation-

http://anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.html?i=1929&p=4

Razorwolf
12-18-2003, 10:14 AM
7- Power supply-
Alimentation 550W - Double ventilation
This is totally unnecessary. This power suply is like 75: you can get a PSU with your case in the first place, and you don't need it in the second place. Only people with 8 Harddrives, 3 CD drives, 4 PCI cards and the normal stuff need such a supply.

PixelVampire
12-18-2003, 10:42 AM
Yeah you are right about the Power supply I am not going with it anymore.

Ice Czar
12-18-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by PixelVampire
Yeah you are right about the Power supply I am not going with it anymore.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=699671&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 (and the next page)
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=702120 (and the next page)

there is a little too much info to breifly summarize

3Dfx_Sage
12-18-2003, 06:19 PM
dont get too excited about the 64bit version of WindowsXP... it's been pushed back again. Likely they are waiting for Intel to catch up.

PixelVampire
12-18-2003, 07:50 PM
I think same. A company with all the money like Microshit can't get the OS out. I find that hard to believe.
I always support the underdog ........argh! MYSELF :cry:

PixelVampire
12-18-2003, 10:47 PM
Some more info for noobs- explaining the difference in level 2 cache between Athlon 64 3200 and Athlon 64 3000.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20031214095239.html

check out the front page as well-
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/

3Dfx_Sage
12-19-2003, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by PixelVampire
I always support the underdog ........argh! MYSELF :cry:
then support Intel. AMD and MS are ganging up everyine else.

dvornik
12-19-2003, 05:34 AM
Microsoft/AMD rumor is indeed scary...


Anyway...
Has anyone commented on IBM harddrives? What, they don't suck anymore?

I'd go with 64 bit if I was buying now. I'd go with Antec case + PSU. I'm a Crucial fan myself.

Here's another (single and dual) processors review link you may take a look at:
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000275

Here's a DVD burner for you:
http://www.slickdeals.net/#p3978
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10343367&loc=101&sp=1

PixelVampire
12-19-2003, 11:29 AM
EDIT- I just came back from the shop and I put the idea on hold. I just put in a new segate HD, changed the CPU fan and installed a cheap firwire card to burn DVDs for backup on my current Athlon2000XP PC.

I will wait another 2 months or so and go a dual opteron way.
I am bit dissapointed but I can wait few months till all the dust settles down.
64 bit is the future and I will be there sooner rather than .......:cry:

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