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erazal
12-07-2003, 09:07 AM
After much deliberation, i've decided to go ahead with purchasing dual xeons (if my christmas bonus permits me to do so) and i just have a few questions to the people who use them...

How is the temperature on those babies? do i need an abundance of cooling equipment?

As 3d animators, how well would you rate the performance of the Xeons for your daily animating needs?

Since 64bit technology will be creeping up on us soon (possibly in the next two years) i'll be thinking of upgrading by then, but do you think the Xeons will do for now? I'm just worried about it's longevity...dont want the Xeons to be obsolete within a matter of days which i'm sure a lot of us have worried about when buying new hardware.

At the most basic though, my big question really would be, if my christmas bonus kicks in and i can afford the dual Xeons, should i get them, or should i just stick to a single P4 3.06Ghz /w HT technology at 800 FSB and wait until the technology gets better (dual xeons running at higher FSB, single and dual 64bit processing)?

I'm thinking of getting two Xeons at 2.8Ghz /w HT enabled...once again, money is an issue (as always)... Just wanted a few peoples opinions on the Xeon....and keep in mind i wanna do some very crazy animations (very detailed shorts)...will the single P4 do?

Srek
12-07-2003, 09:44 AM
Hi,
in a well build Xeon system heat isn't an issue. I strongly recommend not to build one yourself since dual Xeons differ in many points from the common single processor systems that will cost you time and money if you don't know exactly what you are doing.
At this time i wouldn't take 64 Bit systems into account. Even though they might be available in numbers by mid next year they don't have a real speed advantage and the 64 Bit advantage will only show with 64 Bit OS and applications which won't be here to soon and who knows in what state.
As for animation i think the single P4 3 Ghz might proof a bit faster since only a few animation tasks are usualy multithreaded so they can take advantage of the second processor, Rendering on the other hand is a completely different animal the dual Xeon will scream here :)
Maybe you should think about getting two boxes. A fast single P4 for animation and a second (cheaper) single P4 for additonal rendering (provided you are using Net rendering or similar).

Hope this helps
Srek

erazal
12-07-2003, 08:23 PM
Thanks for the reply Srek,

Your answer actually brought up more questions for me to ask...

I'm not going to build the system myself, i have someone who does that for me and i'm sure he can figure it out if i anything. and i wasnt totally concerned with 64bit technology since it's still in it's early stages.

one of my main concerns is being able to create complex scenes involving a lot of things on screen at once. I currently have a P3 733 computer that cannot handle certain scenes like that and therefore, whenever i rotate the scene in the viewport for example, the damn thing would slow down to the point where i'd have to wait every 5 seconds before the screen refreshes itself, which as you probably have experienced, gets very very annoying.

I was hoping the dual Xeon setup would help me out in that department, as well as also have rendering power to back it up....but from what i got with your answer, your saying that the Xeons main deal is rendering, and in terms of animation, it wouldnt help me?

Anyone else who have Xeon setups have experienced this?

Cuz i really wouldnt want to sink all that money in just a rendering machine and nothing else.

_polz_
12-07-2003, 10:19 PM
hi erazal,

" one of my main concerns is being able to create complex scenes involving a lot of things on screen at once. I currently have a P3 733 computer that cannot handle certain scenes like that and therefore, whenever i rotate the scene in the viewport for example, the damn thing would slow down to the point where i'd have to wait every 5 seconds before the screen refreshes itself, which as you probably have experienced, gets very very annoying."

---> this sounds to me more like a graphic card issue. since you dont really need the processor to visualize your scene in the viewports.
the processor starts doing its job while rendering not by displaying the scene.

from my point of view a p4 2.8 ghz and a nice graphic card (PNY, 3Dlabs.....@ about 400-500$) would be more suitable than a dual xenon pc.

especially if you mention the heavy scenes.... there a pro graphic card is the best buy.

hope i could help you...

_polz_

erazal
12-07-2003, 10:38 PM
Polz: this sounds to me more like a graphic card issue. since you dont really need the processor to visualize your scene in the viewports.

Know what Polz, your right, it crossed my mind as well but i thought that the second CPU would help boost the speed of the viewport activity a little more.

Thanks for your help, at least now i have very good reasons to get either one. I might just opt for spending the money on an amazing video card....but i do feel rendering power is also important.

What i'll do i guess, if i can afford it is get the dual xeons with an amazing video card. Any suggestions on a videocard for running Max 6? something with my specifications (lots of complex, detailed scenes with multiple characters that wont slow down the viewport).

Emmortal1
12-08-2003, 01:39 AM
Get a Quadro FX 3000 now and save your money for buying a 64 bit system next year. It will be worth it for the needs you described.

Emmortal

elvis
12-08-2003, 02:39 AM
without trying to pick a fight, there are always bigger and better things coming around the corner. next year when 64bit systems come into abundance, people will be recommending everyone wait until the next year to get faster versions. eventually you have to bite the bullet and purchase something to do work on NOW.

prices will always go down. don't be pissed off when your $3000 machine bought yesterday is worth $1000 in 6 months. that's how it works with compuuters.

on topic, a dual Xeon 2.6 or 2.8 system with a QuadroFX 1000 is a nice setup, and not priced too far in the high end for the average user. dual processing won't help your viewport much, but is nice for rendering as well as if you have a few apps open at once. the dual xeon users here happily test render away in the background while photoshopping in the foreground on dual 2.8's with 2GB of RAM each.

make sure you run WindowsXP (if you are going the windows road) on the machine to get full HT support on the dual CPUs.

erazal
12-08-2003, 04:38 AM
Thanks Elvis!

I appreciate the reply. That's just the thing ay? Technology keeps going forward and you cant really sit there and keep holding off for faster things cuz you'll end up not getting anywhere.

I wasnt really going to wait another year just to get the 64bit processors. I feel it's way too early anyways. I'm hoping to upgrade to 64bit in the next two years or so. Elvis is right, i do need something RIGHT NOW in order to do some serious 3D.

My confidence on the Xeons are a bit better now. I figure it'll be way better than my current PC now anyway, and on top of that, i do a lot of multi Tasking, and one of my major problems was having to leave the PC on and wait till the render would finish before working on anything else, or even chatting on MSN or surfing the net. The Xeons will be helping me out a lot with multi-tasking so it's definately worth my $$$. I'm just hoping that my Christmas Bonus lets me do it. If not, i'll wait a few months until i get the money, and maybe i'll even be able to get the 800 FSB one.

i'm sure the Xeons will last me a few years until i decide to go the 64bit route. Oh yeah, and i wouldnt think of using anything else but the Windows XP Pro OS.

I'm also looking into the Quadro as well. How is it for games though? i'm not really looking into playing games so much but in the odd time i actually want to play, i'm hoping it performs better than my current setup (which i'm definately sure it will.....has to right? i currently have a 64bit radeon system)

allawy
12-08-2003, 10:09 AM
Hi

The next comming Xeons "Jayhawk" are at FSB800, and there is some behind scence talking that they will have 64bit extension (just like opterons), I'm not sure about the 64bit, but I'm sure they are at higher FSB which mean better mem. speed and hight responce and performance.

Anyway, no one know when they will be out, some say second half of 2004, some say second quarter of 2004, this is anoying me cause since 2 months ago I need a dual Xeon system, and I don't want to waist money with upgrades.

The new Xeon Chipset should come with good stuff too, support for DDRII, PCI-Express for the comming Very Fast Vcards, and more, for me it worth the wait, yes I'm welling to pay more for that, but I need it now :cry:

Although, you can still get Xeons with DDR333 with ASUS PC DL Deluxe Mobo., but still why waist money now if you going to upgrade to the new Xeons.

As for Vcards, they speed up the vport, not sure how much, make sure not to make my same mistake and by ATI, they are not good for 3D application, even a G4 ti4x00 worth the money more than them in that field, Quadro is super, but still cost allot, be very carful with Vcards, and you still can wait for PCI-Express version of these that is comming next year.

My advice is to Hibernate till then :)

GregHess
12-08-2003, 12:55 PM
erazal,

What are you using now?

Is it possible to upgrade your current system to its max potential and save the rest of your money for a future system?

A dual 2.8B Xeon is a screaming fast system...but its now approaching a chipset change.

As allawy mentioned newer Xeon boards/chips are coming out this coming year (Last I heard was Q1 2004, but I've been known to be wrong), as well as future advances in the Athlon FX and Opteron lines.

Not to mention an entirely new motherboard standard (BTX) which will require new power supply's, case designs, and heck even some heatsink redesigns.

Prescott is also on the horizon.

Not to mention all those super tasty high res, sub 16ms 20 inch LCD's.

Oh and btw, any quadro card will function equivilantly to its Geforce FX brethern in games. (Give or take a % or two)

erazal
12-08-2003, 07:19 PM
thanks again guys

My current system right now is p3 733 and it's pretty much maxed out already. I've waited about a year already to get a PC and i can pretty much wait a few more months. In any case, i've heard about the new Xeons with 800FSB but the problem is we dont know exactly when they'll be out, not to mention how much that's gonna cost. As i've said before, money is definately an issue. I can probably afford the Xeons now, but the newer ones will be way too expensive for me to get.

I was thinking of just getting the 2.8 Xeons right now and upgrade to 64bit technology when it's already accepted as mainstream, so basically in about 2 years or so. In the meantime, i feel that the Xeons i get now will pretty much take me through till then.

Believe me though, if my bonus doesnt come through as planned, i'm going to have to hold off and wait for the new Xeons. we'll see in about 2 months because that's when i'm planning on getting my system.

any idea when the new ones will be out?

Thalaxis
12-08-2003, 07:37 PM
The latest on Nocona (Prescott-based Xeon) is that they are now
expected toward the end of Q1/04.

The next chipsets are due late in Q2, I think.

If you're planning to buy 2 months from now, then you're in a
good position, I think, as the competition between AMD and Intel
in that space is just starting to heat up, and I think there is one
more Northwood-based Xeon processor due to launch in the
interim.

allawy
12-08-2003, 08:17 PM
Thalaxis

Is this like sure news? I mean about new Xeons will be released at Q1/04, that means about 4 months from now, right?

I would love to pay for thouse, even if they cost allot, I will live on bread :)

I've been always satisfied by intel, although I admit that AMD had several good advatages during these years (like now they have the opterons), but in my country we have this say "The Bad you know is better than the good you don't", and Intel is not that bad, is it? :)

The reason I want to wait is that once you use P4 HT FSB800, and you see the wonderful responce/performance that HT and FSB800 give you, you just can use less, I mean even with my 2.4GH which is not much I'm happy.

My question is should I get me a 3GH till then? would the 0.6GH make any difference?

Thalaxis
12-08-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by allawy
Thalaxis
Is this like sure news? I mean about new Xeons will be released at Q1/04, that means about 4 months from now, right?


Somewhat... but it also looks like I was off by a month or two:
Xeon pricing article at XBit Labs (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20031204180227.html)


I would love to pay for thouse, even if they cost allot, I will live on bread.


They aren't as expensive as one might expect... unless you are
looking for 4-processor versions, which are not what one might
call "cost effective" if you know what I mean. ;)


I've been always satisfied by intel, although I admit that AMD had several good advatages during these years (like now they have the opterons), but in my country we have this say "The Bad you know is better than the good you don't", and Intel is not that bad, is it? :)


The statement "no one ever got fired for buying Intel" came from
somewhere... and the fact that Intel owns around 80% of the
server market is probably a good sign.

Personally, while I like Intel's products quite a bit (my fave being
the Pentium-M, and my newest machine is a P4), I prefer the K8
family. I'm hoping to be able to get a dual Opteron rig next year, if
budget allows... we'll see :)


The reason I want to wait is that once you use P4 HT FSB800, and you see the wonderful responce/performance that HT and FSB800 give you, you just can use less, I mean even with my 2.4GH which is not much I'm happy.


HT is great technology. Hardly revolutionary, but it's a very cheap
way for a processor maker to extract a little extra from their
processor... but it isn't a universal benefit, and it requires some
extra effort from the software developers to fully exploit it.

But it's a nearly free performance boost, so it's hard to complain
about that. :)

I was hoping that AMD would do it, but according to their Fred
Weber (IIRC), they have a somewhat more ambitious plan.


My question is should I get me a 3GH till then? would the 0.6GH make any difference?

Tough call... the 3.0 GHz models aren't particularly expensive any
longer, now that there are 3.2 GHz 1M (1MB L3) models available.
But on the other hand, if you don't need it now, you could save up
a bit of moolah for 2-3 months and get a dual LGA770 machine
fairly soon.

These decisions are never easy. :/

erazal
12-09-2003, 07:52 AM
Awesome Replies!!

Well in light of this info, i'm not thinking of just waiting till April when AMD and Intel release they're newer chips. Just seems more of an intelligent decision since it's not too far off, just 3 months.

What i'm going to do now is just upgrade my video card with the money i have, probably go with the QuadroFX or the Quadro 4 (i feel a question coming on...but i'll research the site first if it's already been answered) and put that puppy into my computer and it should tide me over until i purchase the powerhouse Processors that are out there.

Besides, the way i look at it, the extra time can help me do a little more research on the whole thing:applause:

And hey, once i get the new Xeon or whatever i think is best at the time, that should TOTALLY hold me off for 2-3 years for sure, until i decide to upgrade to 64bit technology. It all works out!!

Thanks again guys, this forum rocks me socks!!

allawy
12-09-2003, 02:47 PM
Thalaxis

I O U MAN! :bounce: You just saved my budged, Thanks allot, know it or not, this is the second time you post something and it come to save my day, I'm really thankful to you!

These things are wonderful, the Xeons with FSB800 will stay in the market for longer time than other versions, I heard about some other FSB that exceed 1000, I don't recall how much, but I think it's now clear for all who own a P4 with FSB800 that these are the best Personal Computer proccessors they bought (at least Intel clients).

Although I'm not sure about the prices, but I'm welling to pay, as I said bread will become my best friend :), it seems Intel has droped the idea of 64bit Extension, I don't know what SSE3 will be, but instead of jumping into 64bit make 32bit more effecient, which is fine for me, after all we all seeking stability and performance.

I really can't wait! :drool:

Thalaxis
12-09-2003, 04:37 PM
No problem!

Computer shopping is never easy... there are so many choices :)

I think Nocona will be the first Xeon with an 800 MHz FSB, and
the next iteration (Tejas core?) will have a 1066 MHz FSB.

After that, there might be a dual-core Xeon to counter AMD's dual-
core Opteron. (Competition rocks :)).

SSE3 has some instructions for SIMD (Array of Structures), int-float
conversions, and multithreading. Nothing spectacular.

How Intel plans to go about bringing 64-bit to the desktop is far
too unclear to make and decisions based on it. Right now, if you
want 64-bit support, get a dual Opteron, and if you can't afford
that just get a dual Xeon. :)

erazal
12-10-2003, 05:06 AM
Damn Spiffy!!

Quick question though....can someone explain to me how the newer 2.8GHz Xeons with 800FSB is cheaper than the 2.8GHz Xeons before it?

I mean check it out, it says the newer ones will come out at $209 whereas the older versions will be coming out at $234 or so in the same quarter.....

i'm happy if it's true but i'm a little skeptical about it.

elvis
12-10-2003, 06:04 AM
i'm guessing the new core is a smaller fabrication process, and therefor will yeild a higher percentage of good parts per slab of silicon.

if that's the case, it means it will be cheaper for intel to make them on bulk, and that will be refelected in their sale price.

not only that, but intel are getting some good pressure from AMD with the Athlon64/Opteron family for server and high-end workstation gear. competition means lower prices, and happy elvis. :D

danylyon
12-10-2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by elvis
i'm guessing the new core is a smaller fabrication process, and therefor will yeild a higher percentage of good parts per slab of silicon.

if that's the case, it means it will be cheaper for intel to make them on bulk, and that will be refelected in their sale price.


LOL.. prizes are set by what people would pay for it at maximum (and how big the market is).. and never what the product or the materials are worth it. It's called capitalism. (There are exceptions anyway)..

That being said.. i don't know the reason :)

allawy
12-10-2003, 12:54 PM
I think these are not the real prices, or should I say not the final prices, diffentaly it will be higher, I'm not sure about this price, but I sure that it's not that cheap.

Don't forget that allot of people are really waitting for the Xeons at FSB800 cause they think it a real power, I know allot including myself, and this demand will increase the price.

Anyway, I wish they are that cheap, who don't like cheap good stuff :)

I only wish if they something early, like next month, even if they cost little bit more.

Thalaxis
12-10-2003, 04:43 PM
Also keep in mind where the 2.8's fit into the market now, vs
where they will be when the Nocona's launch. Right now, they're
basically mid-range, since the low-end is covered by the 2.4 GHz
model. The Nocona's will be pushing 3.4 GHz, so basically the rest
of the family is moving down a notch, making 2.8 GHz low end.

Hence, a lower price.

This is, IMO, both in addition to and in response to the
competition from AMD. It would have happened anyway, but
thanks to AMD it's happening a lot sooner than it might otherwise
have.

Thorlyn
12-10-2003, 10:40 PM
I have a dual Xeon 2.4 at work and a single athlon at home. My recomendation is to stick with a single processor unless you want to VERY heavy multi tasking. 30% of the time that im at work I am compressing video while at the same time doing 3D and or Video work at the same time. If I had a single CPU machine it would be so horrorably slow that it would be unusable. But with two cpu's I can set differant apps to use differant processors. HT makes that easier too.

Having said that I am totally comfortable with my single CPU system at home. I do Video Compositing/Video Compression/and 3D at home. But never more than 1 at a time. So one CPU is fine, I feel no desire to move to two.

Conclusion, You currently have a 733mgz PIII. This is behind the tech curve enough to really hurt your productivity. If you buy a dual CPU system that you cant afford to scrap in 1-2 years you will end up in the same situation again. Buy a cheaper systems and upgrade more often! A single 2.8 is going to be way cheap and for the most part just as fast as a dual xeon anyway.

A note about FSB's. They are only a small part of what makes a CPU fast. Its silly to wait for any technology. Everything is always getting faster all the time. If you start waiting like that you will always be waiting. The bleeding edge will rob you blind if you try and keep up with it. Stay a step back and save your money.

Ice Czar
12-11-2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by erazal
once again, money is an issue (as always


I would imagine the P4 would do
and the Xeons just scream
but have you considered the Opterons?

Im just getting into animation
(pro 2D designer for +20 years)
and finally aquired a rig specifically to do it
(thus my reason for lurking here)
I opted for the Tyan K8W w\ dual Opteron 244's
4GB of PC2700 ECC & Registered (Crucial)

handy solution to the 32bit \ 64bit dilemma

erazal
12-11-2003, 08:46 AM
Thanks again for the reply's!!!

I have thought about one processor for a while, however dual processors are what i'm really opting for. I'm all for the rendering power, plus the fact that i multi-task quite often.

I have a lot of huge projects planned and i dont think having a single processor unit will help me, especially since i like to use my PC a lot for many things. One of my main problems before was every time i had to render one of my animations, which would of course take forever, i had to wait till it was finished before i could continue to work on the other parts of the animation process, such as....well.....the rest of the animation, photoshop, after effects....all that stuff, and not to mention chatting with friends and surfing the net.

I've always been fascinated with dual processor setups and of course i've always wanted one. I'm just thinking now is the time to go ahead and get one since i can probably afford it. Yes money is an issue as always, however the way i think about it is this:
If i purchase a dual Xeon processor the beginning of 2004, that should last me around 2-3 years.....but knowing me, its probably going to last me a lot longer until the dire need to actually upgrade. By NEED i do mean absoloutely necessary to upgrade to a better computer. Unless my Xeons stop working, or they struggle when i want to do even more complex animations in the future, OR if 64bit technology starts to take over and all my programs are worth garbage, THEN i'll upgrade to a better model. Now that will probably be another 2-3 years or maybe even longer. Heck, i did purchase the P3 733 in 2000, and i havent upraded since and have been content with my system thus far.

Anyway, to make a long post short, although a normal P4 3.0 GHZ machine would do me well, the amount of multi-tasking and rendering i want done, and done quickly, are better suited for the Dual processor machines. I want a machine that wont struggle the harder i push it.

Also, in regards to the Opterons, i've thought about it, and i could even possibly opt for getting the Opterons instead, however it's a little more pricey than the Xeons right now, and, although i have nothing against 64bit processing power, i'll save it for when it becomes a lot more mainstream....meaning until the 32bit processors are completely phased out....the technology is still a tad early for me to invest in it just yet....but we'll see.

It's human nature to want the very best things, and i understand that if i keep holding off for even better things, i wont get anywhere. This is the soul reason why i am freaking out about getting a new machine because i want it to be the best possible...HOWEVER it's important to remember that it's not really the hardware you use, but the person using it, that creates the animations.

allawy
12-11-2003, 11:19 AM
Thorlyn

You are right in may points, but let me explain what our point is, I use a P4 HT and FSB800 now, and I had a P4 non-HT and FSB533, both 2.4GHz, the P4 with HT FSB800 is showing me (till now) a great performance advance over the old one, this is bacause of the HT, as for startup/open File/ Start a program and maney cases the FSB800 showed a good difference, don't forget that is twice memory bandwidth...

As for Single proccessor, you are right again. my P4 is almost perfect for everything, except rendering, it renders good, but not as fast as a client dead line suggests, so I usually end up rendering at one of my friends who own a dual system, why I wait then? well, 2-3 months from now, or even 4 is not that much of a problem, I'm doing everything fine with my single proccessor, and I final render at a friend for now, so why not wait, it's not that I will wait forever as you said, cause I kind know what I want.


erazal

If you are after Render power go for dual Xeons/opterons, although Xeons are much cheaper, Opterons offer 64bit, who knows? anyway, if you can wait for 3-4 months then wait, I would suggest you visit a friend or go to a computer dealer that has a dual cpu system in his show room, test the performance, for you any upgrade will be a good upgrade, you have a PIII, right? :)

A new dual Xeon with 2.8GHz would not cost more that 2500 USD I think.

Ice Czar
12-11-2003, 02:10 PM
regarding multitasking
for security reasons if for nothing else
I use an Abit KR7A Athlon +1800 as my browser box
(where I take considerable risks, trialing software, clicking on questionable links in the course of moderating a forum, cruising blackhat sites in my security studies ect.)
my workstation is locked down on my intranet, and I dont access the internet from it at all, and that way its able to be tweaked specifically for its application(s) of course it still multitasks, but the class of multitasking is segmented between the boxes

Thalaxis
12-11-2003, 03:38 PM
Opteron prices should start coming down pretty quickly. Part o
what is keeping them high is volume, but part of it is also the fact
that there aren't a lot of Opteron motherboards out yet, especially
duals. They're coming though, so that will change.

Also, AMD is planning on kicking up their volumes, which will allow
them to bring prices down, and they did state that existing boards
will support the next models that include upgrade (1 GHz) HT
links, so current Opteron systems will have a pretty good lifespan
as far as upgrades go.

Of course, in order to use those 1 GHz HT links at 1 GHz, you
would have to get a new motherboard most likely, but the current
iteration isn't exactly anemic, if you know what I mean.

allawy
12-11-2003, 04:09 PM
From all the threads I have ever read, this is the most useful, Thanks to all and specially Thalaxis.

Thalaxis
12-11-2003, 04:37 PM
I'm glad someone appreciates it :)

elvis
12-12-2003, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by danylyon
LOL.. prizes are set by what people would pay for it at maximum (and how big the market is).. and never what the product or the materials are worth it. It's called capitalism. (There are exceptions anyway)..

That being said.. i don't know the reason :)

well, it IS intel, and they do kinda do whatever the hell they like when it comes to pricing. :)

thank god for AMD. whether you like their processors or not, intel stuff would be double the price without competition.

Thalaxis
12-12-2003, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by elvis
well, it IS intel, and they do kinda do whatever the hell they like when it comes to pricing. :)

thank god for AMD. whether you like their processors or not, intel stuff would be double the price without competition.

Hear, hear!

What they've done is amazing... even if Prescott outperforms
the Athlon64FX, it seems that AMD has scored a major victory,
and they're definitely gaining mindshare like nobody's business.

The most amazing thing about is that AMD is the only company
that's managed to stay in the running with Intel... IBM
Microelectronics can't even break even, let alone make ends meet,
and yet AMD is in the process of building a fab intended to handle
something like half again the wafer starts of IBM's East Fishkill
fab.

I hope AMD gets their dual-core Opterons out in time for my next
upgrade ;)

crzydimnd
12-13-2003, 05:56 AM
Hey, this thread is incredibly helpful. I'm in a similar situation to erazal's, and you've all cleared up quite a bit of confusion for me.

One other question though: Where's a good place to get systems like this? I've been searching on the web, and haven't found much. Are there manufacturers of Workstations particularly for 3D? Any suggestions would help.

Thanks again!

Ice Czar
12-13-2003, 03:29 PM
you pay a pretty steep premium to buy integrated workstations
but you also invest alot of time learning the ins and outs of building and troubleshooting your own

Im not "up" on what OEM workstations are currently considered the best, but DELL would be a good place to start, the main advantage of an OEM is the support.

That said, all the components for my dual Opteron system have good warrantys, but thats not the same as having someone come and fix it :p

Thalaxis
12-13-2003, 03:37 PM
There are some companies that cater primarily to the content
creation industry (generally -- they build video, audio, content
servers, and render clusters in addition to 3d workstations).
Here are some, but keep in mind that the fact that I didn't list
them just means that I didn't think of them.
www.boxxtech.com
www.xicomputer.com
www.appro.com
www.racksaver.com

Also, AlienWare (www.alienware.com) is moving into that market,
though their primary market is still hardcore gamers. I think they
are an OEM for www.voodoopc.com.

Of course, if you get these rigs you will pay a bit of a premium, but
you get support and certs to go with it -- they certify their
systems to ensure compatibility even with the more exotic stuff
that's out there. And Boxx (and probably others) are very heavily
backing Linux, and will even be providing customized Linux
solutions including specially tuned and validated distributions of
their own.

Of course, there are also the usual suspects; Dell, HP, IBM. IBM
sells just about everything; they're even adding Itanium and
Opteron systems to their workstation line.

I hope that helps to get you started. :)

erazal
12-14-2003, 06:16 AM
Best advice i can give anyone is to befriend someone who builds the stuff for a living.

I have a friend who builds PC's and workstations and he's the go to guy i ....well...go to when i have problems with my PC.

Anyway, i'd like to thank everyone who has replied for making this thread as informative and helpful as possible. I hope that good questions keep coming in so that more people will be helped.

GregHess
12-15-2003, 01:06 PM
Make sure to buy your friend beer and pizza.

Sometimes if your the tech guy among your groups of friends, people sometimes forget that you don't just exist to fix their machines.

Some beer and pizza goes a long way :).

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