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pelos
12-05-2003, 09:28 PM
are the dynamics calculations are going to be faster than syflex?
(i ask because i have a scene with so much dinamics and is so heavy takes years!!!!!)

Insider
12-05-2003, 09:43 PM
From what the stream from SIGGRAPH showed this last August, the dynamics looked exceedingly fast and cool.

CIM
12-05-2003, 09:46 PM
I really, really doubt that. I'm guessing it'll be faster and easier to use than Motion Designer, though.

policarpo
12-05-2003, 10:26 PM
it's pretty hella fast...from what ive seen. :)

:beer:

you choose who to believe. :drool:

Para
12-05-2003, 10:29 PM
Well, we're not talking about Havok speed (of course LW dynamics seem to be a lot more accurate than Havok) but I'd say that they still look fast based on the SIGGRAPH streams :)

In any case, as long as it doesn't take hours to make a short animation with 25 colliding boxes, I'm happy.

projectcoil
12-05-2003, 10:35 PM
Are there any demos of hardbody dynamics? I really want to see a thousand boxes drop off the back of a truck or something like Mario128. :bounce:

http://projectcoil.dyndns.org/gamecube.jpg

Infinity3d4life
12-05-2003, 10:47 PM
I wish someone would post up some video or something that shows what we can expect in lightwave 8.. I didn't get to catch all the vid feed from siggraph so i lost out..

Insider
12-05-2003, 11:35 PM
From what I've seen - when 8 comes out, I will be thrilled not to have to use Motion Designer.

'nuff said.

proton
12-06-2003, 12:35 AM
I'm more then happyu with the speed

Miyazaki
12-06-2003, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by proton
I'm more then happyu with the speed
Yes, on your BOXX :p Could you plz post your system specs? thx :beer:

pelos
12-06-2003, 05:17 AM
i have seen the demos of sigrapph

but, i have a p4 1.4 with 256 ram...
i dont have a super computer!!! maybe in the future

i know that syflex is in xsi now, is going to be the need to have it in LW? or something like realtime Dynamics like messiah?

CIM
12-06-2003, 05:29 AM
Using the Siggraph demos to benchmark is a poor idea. First off, the demos are done on super high-end machines, which I doubt most here actually have. Second, the examples shown are more than likely cached so they don't waste time calculating during the presentations.

Wait until you have LW 8 to judge and benchmark the dynamics.

Steve Warner
12-06-2003, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by CIM
The Siggraph demos are done on super high-end machines, which I doubt most here actually have.

That's not entirely true. I ran demos of every new feature for NewTek at SIGGRAPH. The machine I demonstrated them on was a 2.5GHz Xeon. That's not much faster than the 2.53GHz P4 I'm using right now. While it's true that LW users who are still running on their 300Mhz machines will experience a slowdown, I'd imagine that most users with a fairly modern setup will experience favorable response.

BTW, CIM, I just about fell off my chair laughing when I saw your new avatar. :D

Cheers!

Steve

SplineGod
12-06-2003, 06:12 AM
I have to agree with Steve.
I played with that stuff on several machines at Siggraph including a couple of laptops. It sure seemed very quick to me in fact I was expecting something like CIM is mentioning but stuff played back beautifully and seem to calculate very quickly on pretty much everything I played with.
Now theyve also had a few months to optimize things as well. I expect things are even quicker now. :)

Miyazaki
12-06-2003, 07:20 AM
The new dynamics, do you have to precalculate them, like MD, or i sit more like a kind of 'calculate while playing' thing?

Para
12-06-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by CIM
Second, the examples shown are more than likely cached so they don't waste time calculating during the presentations.

proton did hit FX_Start couple of times in the streams to show how fast the dynamics are. Near realtime (on BOXX) they were.

proton
12-06-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Miyazaki
Yes, on your BOXX :p Could you plz post your system specs? thx :beer:


Actually....I have been doing my testing on my Laptop...I did the entire show in Japan from my Laptop....so it wasn't on my BOXX system and at work I don't have a BOXX system...just at home do I get to use my killer BOXX system :)

proton
12-06-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Para
proton did hit FX_Start couple of times in the streams to show how fast the dynamics are. Near realtime (on BOXX) they were.

That wasn't a BOXX system on the stream...it was some kind of HP....I will ask Deuce if he knows what it was..

SplineGod
12-06-2003, 09:30 PM
Now I did get to demo no a BOXX system (Dual Opteron) and oh man was it fast.... :)

CIM
12-06-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Para
proton did hit FX_Start couple of times in the streams to show how fast the dynamics are. Near realtime (on BOXX) they were.

That still doesn't mean the scenes weren't cached.

Castius
12-06-2003, 10:36 PM
I tried the FX demo's long before lw8 was announced and was impressed. You should still be able to download them. Edit FX is great and I can't wait for it. Only thing I noticed was that the collision detection might still be slightly lacking but other than that it will be great new set of tools.

Julez4001
12-06-2003, 10:42 PM
I heard it was done on Dual 2.5GHz Xeon and BOXX system (Dual Opteron) so whats the real deal? You guys could easily fire one up on a P4 1.7 can't you. Use Standard system L1 cache and dimm ramsets too...


whats the time on these new dynamics features without any saved cache?

retinajoy
12-06-2003, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by CIM
That still doesn't mean the scenes weren't cached.

Doesn't mean that they were cached either. As you said in an earlier post, "Wait until you have LW 8 to judge and benchmark the dynamics."

Para
12-07-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by CIM
That still doesn't mean the scenes weren't cached.

But it takes the bottom away from your "We don't know how fast it will be" comment.

And as soon as proton gives us the specs of the SIGGRAPH presentation computer, we all can start to compare it to our own rigs and then we'll know how fast the dynamics calculations should be.

policarpo
12-07-2003, 07:46 PM
well...let's just say that it is very very nice. it feels good on a powerbook 1ghz and none of it was "precached" as some would like to assume.

it is really really fun and nicely implimented and so much nicer to use. :)

JohnD
12-07-2003, 09:49 PM
The new hard body dynamics are gonna be a godsend for me with the animation i'm working on. Have some rock creatures that get blown apart and would love to show pieces of rock flying around and interacting with the surroundings. I've got a 1.5 dual Xeon, so hopefully the speed of calculation won't be a problem. Hell, just happy to finally say goodbye to Motion Designer...I got the most out of it and it did what I needed, but really looking forward to the new dynamics.

samartin
12-07-2003, 10:20 PM
LMAO at hidden messages ;)

Can't wait now to try LW[8] out, looks like there's gonna be a whole new batch of postings here when it comes out, woohoo :D

pelos
12-08-2003, 05:48 AM
another thing i like to know is time dynamics,
i mean if a can set to calculate the dynamics from any frame,
example doing a fight, and after a kick, blow away the bad guy with dyamics so when he falls interact with the floor or maybe some boxes around,

Werner
12-08-2003, 08:17 AM
I can't wait to see and use the new hard and softbody dynamics in LW 8. If it's anything like this (http://mtlstream02.discreet.com/streaming/ms/ragdoll_150k.wmv) (2 meg demo) , I'll be very happy!

Facial Deluxe
12-08-2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Werner
I can't wait to see and use the new hard and softbody dynamics in LW 8. If it's anything like this (http://mtlstream02.discreet.com/streaming/ms/ragdoll_150k.wmv) (2 meg demo) , I'll be very happy!

I too can't wait :)

But, according to the reactor file, I'm not to keen on what it does.
I mean, a body would never fall like that, unless he's long time dead (and not too stiff). Usualy when you fall, you have a lot of reflexes trying to prevent from falling too hard. Here it's quite unrealistic.
But yeah, the speed of answering of their app seems impressive, no doubt....

Werner
12-08-2003, 09:30 AM
yeah, I was referring to the interactive speed at which it calculates the simulation. I like the way they throw the "rag doll" around and it interacts with the boxes in the scene.

proton
12-08-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by policarpo
it is really really fun and nicely implimented and so much nicer to use. :)

:beer:

Castius
12-08-2003, 03:04 PM
http://www.steelronin.com/temp/movement7-2.mpeg

To give you an idea for all who dont feel like trying the demo.
This was done on a athlon 1700 with FX motiondrive demo. Took about 20-30 min to calc. cloth mesh 3300 tries collition object 3700 tries.
This test used no extra features of FX motion drive meaning i didn't pin any verts I didn't use any weights, it's just one large mesh with one cloth value.

LittleFenris
12-08-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by samartin
LMAO at hidden messages ;)

Can't wait now to try LW[8] out, looks like there's gonna be a whole new batch of postings here when it comes out, woohoo :D

yes to both of your comments. :bounce:

tOd
12-08-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Werner
I can't wait to see and use the new hard and softbody dynamics in LW 8. If it's anything like this (http://mtlstream02.discreet.com/streaming/ms/ragdoll_150k.wmv) (2 meg demo) , I'll be very happy!
From what I saw at Siggraph I didnt see anything that cool from 8's rigid dynamics. But maybe thats from the poor settings being set for the demo scenes of 8. I hope so cause if thats as good as it got then we wont use them.

The soft bodies and cloth were VERY cool though!:buttrock:

pelos
12-08-2003, 09:10 PM
facial, i heard that you can adjust the motion after dynamics, so if you dont like how the guy falls or is kicking away, you can adjust the limbs hands legs so looks more natural, of cousrse it will be amaizing i all ready do it naturaly but any way.....

foodguy3d
12-09-2003, 04:45 AM
I'm new here - but from what I've seen, I'm excited to try all this out!

I'm not new to 3D, and my little ole' P4 will do just fine I'm sure.

Let's go NewTek! LW 8 is going to be cooL!


FG3D

Facial Deluxe
12-09-2003, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by pelos
facial, i heard that you can adjust the motion after dynamics, so if you dont like how the guy falls or is kicking away, you can adjust the limbs hands legs so looks more natural, of cousrse it will be amaizing i all ready do it naturaly but any way.....

Are you talking about Max or LW ? In LW, I unterstood that this was doable with particles, not sure for the hard/softbodies....

SplineGod
12-09-2003, 08:18 AM
The siggraph demos were pretty cool.
There was one where a character was being pummeled by a fist and the various parts of the character were rebounding and reacting to the fist striking differet parts of the body. :)

tOd
12-09-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
The siggraph demos were pretty cool.
There was one where a character was being pummeled by a fist and the various parts of the character were rebounding and reacting to the fist striking differet parts of the body. :)

Yes some were very cool. Some were just plain bad.

Para
12-09-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by tOd
Yes some were very cool. Some were just plain bad.

Which ones and why?

SplineGod
12-09-2003, 07:42 PM
Well, cool in the respect that it can be done :)

tOd
12-09-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Para
Which ones and why?

I was, as was Larry, at a preview that Tuesday morning at a club called Onyx. The first half was Michele showing techniques in MD which I learned a ton from BTW.

Anyway, at the end she demoed some of 8's new features some of which was rigid dynamics. One was a scene with bowling pins and a ball. The ball hit the pins and pins just shot straight back no side movement at all. Some penatrated the floor and one pin just sat there spinning on its head straight up never falling. Not very good in my opinion.

Some of the other scenes looked somewhat better at the booth so maybe they could be better with some tweaking. :shrug: Maya still looks much better in this arena.

The cloth stuff looked very promising though.

I however dont think its "cool" just because you couldnt do it before and now you can with piss poor results.

takkun
12-09-2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by tOd
I was, as was Larry, at a preview that Tuesday morning at a club called Onyx. The first half was Michele showing techniques in MD which I learned a ton from BTW.

Anyway, at the end she demoed some of 8's new features some of which was rigid dynamics. One was a scene with bowling pins and a ball. The ball hit the pins and pins just shot straight back no side movement at all. Some penatrated the floor and one pin just sat there spinning on its head straight up never falling. Not very good in my opinion.

Some of the other scenes looked somewhat better at the booth so maybe they could be better with some tweaking. :shrug: Maya still looks much better in this arena.

The cloth stuff looked very promising though.

I however dont think its "cool" just because you couldnt do it before and now you can with piss poor results. I was there too. Don't you mean Jennifer Hachigan? Who's Michelle? I don't remember it being that piss poor, and it might have been just a quick set-up, that's why pins were penetrating the floor and such. That's my guess. Well Jennifer frequents this board, maybe she could comment on it?

tOd
12-09-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by takkun
I was there too. Don't you mean Jennifer Hachigan? Who's Michelle? I don't remember it being that piss poor, and it might have been just a quick set-up, that's why pins were penetrating the floor and such. That's my guess. Well Jennifer frequents this board, maybe she could comment on it?

Oh my bad. I couldnt remember her name and I asked my buddy here who was there with me and he said it was Machele.
Last time I listen to him.

Yeah Im hoping it was the settings.

Thats cool that you didnt think it was bad results for rigid dynamics. Ill be honest and say I dont know how you could have seen what we saw and not think it was bad. Steve,I and few others we had met were eating later and had a good laugh about it. To each his own.

When 8 comes out we can all make up our own minds if they work for us or not.

policarpo
12-09-2003, 09:40 PM
well anyone who has a clue knows that in order to do effective dynamics you have to use Norsturger Dynamics 5.0 from Preececrew Industries.

When you use it, they give you a monkey who likes to hurl scat at people who don't believe things are possible with a little tweaking.

:eek:

takkun
12-09-2003, 09:56 PM
Thats cool that you didnt think it was bad results for rigid dynamics. Ill be honest and say I dont know how you could have seen what we saw and not think it was bad. Steve,I and few others we had met were eating later and had a good laugh about it. To each his own.

When 8 comes out we can all make up our own minds if they work for us or not. Honestly, I don't really remember that much. Maybe it was that bad. Well, the first thing that I do when I get LW 8 is knock over some bowling pins. :)

tOd
12-09-2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by takkun
Honestly, I don't really remember that much. Maybe it was that bad. Well, the first thing that I do when I get LW 8 is knock over some bowling pins. :)

:D Yeah! Give it a go. Withs ome tweaking and experimentaion who knows what you could come up with.

Karmacop
12-10-2003, 02:10 AM
I saw lw8 yesterday and the dynamics are VERY fast. Although they were small scenes it was all done in real time or very close to it, and no it wasn't cached before hand.

And yes, you can change the motion of hard body dynamics after it's been calculated.

I can't say anything about the accuracy though, I didn't see any bowling pins scene.

Para
12-10-2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by takkun
Honestly, I don't really remember that much. Maybe it was that bad. Well, the first thing that I do when I get LW 8 is knock over some bowling pins. :)

In that case the first thing I do is knock over the bowling alley :p

pelos
12-10-2003, 08:47 AM
Karmacop where did you see lw8?

Freak
12-10-2003, 09:28 AM
Pelos:

Karmacop would of seen it at the AEAF.

Kretin demonstrated LW8 at the AEAF (Australian Effects & Animation Festival) in Darling Harbour - Sydney.

Kudos to NT and Kretin for making it happen......
As it nearly didn't at the last minute...

Facial Deluxe
12-10-2003, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Karmacop
And yes, you can change the motion of hard body dynamics after it's been calculated.

:beer:

Karmacop
12-10-2003, 01:14 PM
Yep, Freak is right :)

Why did is almost not happen? That would have annoyed me to no end :p

pelos
12-11-2003, 03:15 AM
how i wish they make show in monterrey mexico!!!
jaja:cry:

pelos
12-11-2003, 08:49 PM
one last question,
are the sot body dynamics will have diferetn or many collision objects?
and if they can colide with each other, example hair and a tshirt, or the hard body dynamics, exploding a rock and hiting some cortains.

kurt30
12-11-2003, 11:41 PM
I can't wait till LW8 comes out. Please Proton...do tell those boyz in the engineering to hurry up!:bounce: :bounce:

kretin
12-12-2003, 08:32 AM
It was fun showing everyone the new dynamics :)

It was unfortunate that I didn't have time to put together more examples, but that's the way it went :(

Ball hitting bowling pins is so totally a no brainer with Hard Body Dynamics :p c'mon.... at least ask for something that's difficult...

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