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-JT-
12-04-2003, 06:02 PM
I love Lightwave's modeler just because of the possibility to model in subdivs without the cage, but i do miss edge and ngons, so i was wondering :
is there a modeler out there with both the isoline mode and edge/ngons ?

actarusprocyon
12-04-2003, 06:18 PM
I'm not sure what you mean but in Wings3D you can model without a visible cage so all you see if the derived mesh and the isolines,I think C4D also can do it but I'm not sure.

Also,in SubD Mode Softimage Xsi displays isolines and no Hull.if that's what you mean.

katon
12-04-2003, 06:23 PM
yes in maya you can, they have both ways to do it. You can switch between using ngons and not. Its cool. Peace

Katon

-JT-
12-08-2003, 06:13 AM
Are you sure Maya can do this ? Softimage ?

here is a gif to explain what i mean :

http://tutsillustrator.free.fr/stuff/modelcage.gif

mtague
12-08-2003, 09:12 AM
Yes. It looks like Maya's subdivisional surfaces to me. You can have subdiv's in maya in standard mode, which is smooth with no cage, or polygon proxy mode which is rough with a cage (rounded with rough cage around it). The polygon proxy mode just makes a lower res poly looking model for working with, but the model is actually still subdiv's. If you render, the model is smooth. The polygon tools work with the poly proxy mode too. My learning book also shows how to make the subdiv's in proxy mode look like polys (no cage, all rough and pointy) but I don't know the settings that do that. And you can switch between modes pretty easily (though you might want to hotkey the mode switch for ease).

You should download the maya personal learning edition and try out subdiv to see if you like it. www.alias.com for the PLE. And if you can find it at a library, or borrow from someone, Jae-Jin Choi's Maya Character Animation has a nice subdiv tutorial. Or find a tutorial online.

-JT-
12-08-2003, 10:25 AM
Thnaks Mtague, i didn't know Maya had this, i'll have to try it :)

Theht
12-08-2003, 01:50 PM
Softimage xsi can do this you can switch betwenn all types iso line, cage and so on, and for 3dsmax there is a script wihch can do this. And yes in wings you can switch also throw the types.

tobiasniva
12-08-2003, 03:33 PM
...and where could I find it?

/Thanx in advance

Theht
12-08-2003, 04:04 PM
on www.scriptspot.com (scriptspot.com)

its called sub-d or somethink like this

mtague
12-08-2003, 04:21 PM
No problem. I've just started using subdiv's myself and it's really easy so far with really nice results.

katon
12-09-2003, 04:57 AM
I like mayas sub d's they are nice, especialy since you can switch form a proxy mode and refine the model from a level 0 mesh and the step back into a more detailed mode instantly. The only problem i have with them is, history, it kills me after a while. I used sub d's i maya 4 and have not used them so much lately cause i could never delete the history corectly with tou screwing up the geometry and topology, and then the mesh would just get very heavy and start to suck to model with. So does anyone know how to delete history on a sub d mesh, and it not screw up the history, or am i just dumb. Thanks

Katon

mtague
12-10-2003, 10:34 PM
My book says that switching from proxy mode to standard deletes the construction history. I don't know if that differs much from deleting history from the edit menu. I do notice my file's size lowers when I switch modes. I also convert to polys at times (usually to merge two halves) and reconvert back to subdiv's, and then adjust things a bit, add detail. I think deleting the history after converting to polys, and right before converting back to subdivs should work ok? I haven't had any issues... though I guess I'll find out once I delete history on my model when I'm done tweaking for the bind.

Goon
12-10-2003, 11:22 PM
I haven't been able to use lightwave, but I think what you are talking about is directly manipulating the surface? As in actually being able to select a point on the surface and pull it around?

Maya, doesn't have this. Neither does wings. They each work with the proxy cage, even if at times the cage is not shown.

katon
12-11-2003, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by Goon
I haven't been able to use lightwave, but I think what you are talking about is directly manipulating the surface? As in actually being able to select a point on the surface and pull it around?

Maya, doesn't have this. Neither does wings. They each work with the proxy cage, even if at times the cage is not shown.


Well Goon, maya does do this and we stated this already. That is what you do while in standard mode in maya. Try it out and you will see. You can get as detailed as you like with the surface and switch back to a proxy mode with just the cage and the detail remains. So yes you can do it in maya. And i do know what you are talking about.

Katon

-JT-
12-11-2003, 06:36 AM
Katon, could you describe precisely the process ?
I asked in the Maya forum and i was told you couldn't do this in Maya...

katon
12-11-2003, 07:10 AM
JT I hope this helps. I will try and describe a proccess to show you that it is possible, unless i totaly misunderstand what you are tryign to figure out. Ok here goes. Refer to image.

1. here is the base model in poly's

2.here it is now converted to sub-d

3.now i have the poly cage, wich is refered to as poly proxy mode in mayas sub d's, and also is considered the base mesh.

4.here i went back to the standard sub d mode and pulled some points, you will notice the points are zero's wich means it is curently in level 0 mode of the mesh

5. then i swithed back to poly proxy mode, which is all under sub d modeling i am not switching to anything else, and as you see it is the same as sub d.

now this is where i think you are talking about and what i am trying to say.

6. is just an image of the normal ol sub d mesh.

7. now here i refined an area in standard mode, and it only effects this area not the whole mesh you will notice the points are now2's, which you might not be able to notice do to compresion, here i pulled some points out to show that i can refine an area and model there, great for definition.

8. shows the sub d mesh as is.

9. here i swithced back to poly proxy mode, so we have the base mesh now, and the detail is still there from earlier.

10-11. here i just pulled the points out on my low res mesh and the hi res stuff i modeled in ealier is still there and effected by the low res mesh, and i added now poly's because i refined areas in the standard mode of sub d. and you see that it is still in sub d.

I hope this helps, i am not making this to make you sound like a fool by any means, i am just trying to be thorough and to make sure we are on the same page. I hope this helps, and if this is not what you are talking about i am sorry and i am misunderstanding everyone. If you have any more questions please ask.

Also i am leaving town tomorow in the early afternoon, so if you respoind fast enough i will try and respond back, but if not i will do my best to get to a comp to check this thread. If not i will talk to you all in a week. Peace

Katon

http://www.coloradoweddingcompany.com/skull_subd.jpg

calzoncillos
12-11-2003, 07:23 AM
Ok, first of all, I haven't read all of the posts, and I'm not sure whether this is what you want to do, but I would really reccomend you checked this MEL script out. Search for "connect poly shape" in the following link:

http://www.highend3d.com/maya/mel/?group=melscripts&section=modeling

It's for polys, not subD, but it lets you model on a low-poly model, with the hi-poly results being updated next to it. I love it. :) It's probably faster than working on subDs anyway, and, unless you *have to* work on subDs, I'd really reccomend you try it out.

Good luck! :)

katon
12-11-2003, 07:26 AM
And JT just so you know, you can model in the standard mode, which is with out a low poly mesh the poly proxy, or you can model with the poly proxy on the whole time. It is your choice.

I am not sure though if it is as fast as light wave. Maya's can be slow at time, especial after some heavy detail. Peace

Katon

-JT-
12-11-2003, 07:29 AM
thanks Katon, i'll have to try this :)

katon
12-11-2003, 07:31 AM
cool man i am glad i could help. If you have any questions ever, Just PM me. Peace

Katon

Goon
12-11-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by katon
Well Goon, maya does do this and we stated this already. That is what you do while in standard mode in maya. Try it out and you will see. You can get as detailed as you like with the surface and switch back to a proxy mode with just the cage and the detail remains. So yes you can do it in maya. And i do know what you are talking about.

Katon

Sorry. But as far as I am aware, LW does not have Hierarchical SubD's. That Gif he posted is showing modifications to the actual poly cage, he is simply able to do it without seeing the cage.

Even in Maya's standard mode, you are working with points/edges/faces that are not actually on the surface, but rather in the positions they would be in, were there a poly cage. Even after refining, all that is really being shown is a localized smoothed poly cage that is seamlessly integrated into the rest of the mesh.
Maya does not allow topological changes in standard mode, whereas LW can do many (if not all, I'm not sure on this point) polygon operations in the isoline mode. For instance, a face can be selected and extruded, something clearly impossible in Maya's standard mode.

katon
12-11-2003, 02:40 PM
Goon,

I think i see what you are saying now, you are right you cant extrude beyond the base mesh once in standard mode in maya, it still extrudes from the base mesh and not in the detailed areas. I was just trying to explain what i thought you all were asking. If anything maybe this still has helped. Also i have always wanted to see LW modeling tools, i hearthey are great. See ya

Katon

mtague
12-11-2003, 05:58 PM
Well either way, Maya subdiv's are easy to work with and bring out nice results. I do agree that Maya starts to slow down a lot if the model is heavy in detail though.

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