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Stoehr
12-04-2003, 06:31 AM
Since messiah is so good at diplacement of geometry, and Studio has the ability to apply UV maps, I'd like to create displaced textures based on a UV map.

I've been digging around, but have found nothing on this. Does Studio have normal displacement maps? or sub-pixel displcement shaders, based on painted maps? or something like this?

Eventually, I'd like to animate the effects of diplacements based on bone rotation and scaling, and so on.

thanks.

Stoehr
12-05-2003, 08:38 PM
Pardon, I didnt intend the heading of this thread to say normal maps. I meant Normal Diplacement based on UV maps.

Anybody have any knowledge of this topic in messiah?

lmilton
12-05-2003, 09:07 PM
That feature is slated for the next patch. Also, the normal input will be activated in the next patch for normal maps. So, you'll be able to work with both the displace & normal inputs, and they should work within the context of the shaderflow (i.e. they should be compatible with any shader type, not just TextureMap).

-lyle

Stoehr
12-06-2003, 02:51 AM
Ok, thanks Lyle.

Julez4001
12-06-2003, 08:30 PM
Lyle ...with this mode, will we have true dispalcement maps. I rememebr that being a key feature in Studio when you guys first releast the Advance version. What will this do for speed performance in render and scrubbing. I direct your attention to LOrd of the Rings and the Cave Troll's back where they had displace surface but not from bumpmaps....will we have that functionality.

http://mag.awn.com/issue6.12/6.12images/singerweta05.jpg

Chewey
12-07-2003, 05:48 PM
If pmg can implement the same type of displacement that PRMan has, I'd expect it to spark quite a bit of interest in their renderer.

Labuzz
12-07-2003, 10:19 PM
If pmg can implement the same type of displacement that PRMan has, I'd expect it to spark quite a bit of interest in their renderer.

Absolutely! me in the first place....
:drool:
But he must be fast too ( in Prman its really fast ).

On the other side PMG must not forget ultra important basic things such as deph based shadow map .I have read somewhere that you cant find this type of shadow in studio at the moment( correct me if its wrong ) which is really strange...

Sil3
12-07-2003, 10:47 PM
With Normal Maps do we really need Displacement maps for Character work?

Since that with Normal Maps we can use a Low Rez mesh to look like a Hyper Detailed High Rez without the increase of geometry, i am asking what´s the point right now for regular Displacement, since it creates extra geometry slowing down the render and everything else.

Even WETA seems to be staying away from Micropoly Displacement on the last LOTR movie, they have been using Zbrush to make out the Normal Maps.

Take a look at this pics, and read the entire thread if u feel like it :)


http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77779&perpage=15&highlight=zbrush&pagenumber=1


http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77779&perpage=15&highlight=zbrush&pagenumber=19

and:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77779&perpage=15&highlight=zbrush&pagenumber=21

:bounce:

cousin it
12-08-2003, 01:08 AM
Um... I'm confused... Isn't the whole deal with microdisplacement (if it's the same as subpixel-displacement) that you can actually add non-mesh detail, which specifically shows up in the contours of the rendered geometry? Because, with normal maps, typically, you get less resolution in those same contours, on account of them typically being applied to lower resolution meshes than one would normally use...
So I don't really see how using normal mapping suddenly makes microdisplacement obsolete... Or am I missing the point here?

Labuzz
12-08-2003, 09:14 AM
Normal maps isnt going to replace true displacement ( produce some REAL Volume, no need to subdivide, no need to worry about the mesh topology, render as fast as bump in many case ) anytime soon and they are 2 differents things.

tjnyc
12-08-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Sil3
With Normal Maps do we really need Displacement maps for Character work?

Since that with Normal Maps we can use a Low Rez mesh to look like a Hyper Detailed High Rez without the increase of geometry, i am asking what´s the point right now for regular Displacement, since it creates extra geometry slowing down the render and everything else.

Even WETA seems to be staying away from Micropoly Displacement on the last LOTR movie, they have been using Zbrush to make out the Normal Maps.

Take a look at this pics, and read the entire thread if u feel like it :)


Actually, that is not correct, zbrush was used by Weta to extract both normal maps and displacement maps as demod by Dave Cardwell.


I am creating the low res in Maya because it is a part of my usual work flow which I very familiar with.

After the low-res model is created I import it into ZBrush and add the level of detail that I can not do in Maya. ( 1 million plus poly
meshes! still fast to use )

When the detailed model is completed I can generate displacement maps in ZBrush and export these to be added to the rendering pipeline.

Hope this answers your question.

Dave Cardwell


However, normal maps will work to display high level detail even without displacement maps, but in cases like PRMAN were the cost of rendering displacements are the same as that for bumps, then it using both maps makes sense for rendering.

http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013031

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