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MikeHepburn
09-25-2012, 09:02 AM
Today, Bill Collis, CEO of The Foundry, and Brad Peebler, president of Luxology announced the merger of the two computer graphics companies, bringing together The Foundry’s award- winning 2D and 3D visual effects software and Luxology’s unique 3D modeling and rendering technology together under one group umbrella. The new company’s flagship products are Nuke and Modo.

More>> (http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/the_foundry_and_luxology_merge)

DutchDimension
09-25-2012, 09:10 AM
Also on FXGuide (http://www.fxguide.com/featured/foundry-and-luxology-merge-fxg-exclusive/)

bjoern
09-25-2012, 09:17 AM
dammed, they should have better merged with sideFX. that would have made more sense!

Kabab
09-25-2012, 09:25 AM
Game over Autodesk I'm very excited at what this will bring!

ViCoX
09-25-2012, 09:27 AM
dammed, they should have better merged with sideFX. that would have made more sense!
Not really.
With katana it can be incredibly powerful combination.

Srek
09-25-2012, 09:37 AM
Interesting times ahead :)

Nemoid
09-25-2012, 09:38 AM
Now this is a HUGE news ! :buttrock:

DutchDimension
09-25-2012, 09:39 AM
In other news: 'Autodesk members of the board seen rushing to corporate head quarters in panicked frenzy'.
Witnesses report hearing curses and desperate utterings of "...must buy something" and "Who can we take over?".

hkrol
09-25-2012, 09:47 AM
Come on, side effects, join with eyeon! :D

Kabab
09-25-2012, 09:52 AM
The Modo renderer in Nuke will be awesome.. And can you imagine mari painting tech in Modo...

Sidefx is to niche Modo on the other hand is a broad tool in many many markets, adding kick ass dynamics and particle effects in Modo is easier then putting Houdini in as many markets as Modo is in...

profusion
09-25-2012, 10:05 AM
Life is good :-)
Good news, looking forward to what this will bring

Als
09-25-2012, 10:45 AM
It's obvious.
Nuke is going to be full 3D/2D package.
Everything in one.
I knew it's going to happen, but didn't know how.
This is how. ;)

Good news!


Als

Dirtvic
09-25-2012, 10:57 AM
This is a big news...............Will see what will come next......

scrimski
09-25-2012, 11:35 AM
Nuke is going to be full 3D/2D package.
Everything in one.
I hope it's not gonna be the case.
Compers don't need the 3d stuff 3d artists need and vice versa. 2 packages with a working data exchange would be great though.

mattwood
09-25-2012, 11:40 AM
It's obvious.
Nuke is going to be full 3D/2D package.
Everything in one.
I knew it's going to happen, but didn't know how.
This is how. ;)

Good news!


Als

Finally something to compete with Mudmaxaya and Final Shake Pro

DuttyFoot
09-25-2012, 11:54 AM
This is the best news i have heard all year :)

oglu
09-25-2012, 12:02 PM
thefoundry is part of the carlyle group... i dont think they sell to ad...
http://www.carlyle.com/news-room/news-release-archive/carlyle-group-acquire-visual-effects-software-developer-foundry-advent-ven

plastic
09-25-2012, 12:04 PM
It just means that now it's easier for Autodesk to "merge" them all in one go soon.

HFnord
09-25-2012, 12:11 PM
thefoundry is part of the carlyle group... i dont think they sell to ad...
http://www.carlyle.com/news-room/news-release-archive/carlyle-group-acquire-visual-effects-software-developer-foundry-advent-ven

But, frankly, that looks like an investment company deal.
Once a reasonable offer (and profit) arises they'd probably sell "in a heartbeat".
Not saying that they will, BTW ;)

leigh
09-25-2012, 12:52 PM
Wow, this is big news!

MasonDoran
09-25-2012, 01:04 PM
I am just curious how this will change the way we work.

Foundry is still missing an animation package which Autodesk already owns the major players, so its not a complete pipeline yet (who really animates with modo on major vfx shots?)

I cant wait for Katana on windows though.

Kabab
09-25-2012, 01:07 PM
I am just curious how this will change the way we work.

Foundry is still missing an animation package which Autodesk already owns the major players, so its not a complete pipeline yet (who really animates with modo on major vfx shots?)

I cant wait for Katana on windows though.
601 introduced character animation and they have had node-based rigging for a while, their animation stuff is new but I feel within 1-2 version should be quiet solid....

MasonDoran
09-25-2012, 01:22 PM
Even longer for studios to integrate that :/

Decency
09-25-2012, 01:27 PM
This is the kind of news that can shake up industry. Never a dull moment in this field...:surprised

Stellios
09-25-2012, 01:53 PM
:applause: It begins!

Ciuccio
09-25-2012, 02:31 PM
To me seems the end for modo

JakeJK
09-25-2012, 02:37 PM
I absolutely love this merge. Hopefully this can give some serious competition to the maya dominance in movies... one can hope, hehe.

Decency
09-25-2012, 02:59 PM
To me seems the end for modo

I would bet the exact opposite, and would say we will see the next release of Modo being completely insane and grabbing a huge chunk of market share very quickly.

DutchDimension
09-25-2012, 03:06 PM
601 introduced character animation...

That's a bit of a stretch. I'd say it's rudimentary character animation capabilities at best. A good foundation, but they can't compete with Maya (or SI) on this.

Kabab
09-25-2012, 03:11 PM
That's a bit of a stretch. I'd say it's rudimentary character animation capabilities at best. A good foundation, but they can't compete with Maya (or SI) on this.
Oh of course not with a first release, but character animation is not some voodoo thing any more people know what is needed for a good system and they can study Maya / Soft etc.. So i don't think it will take them all that long to get it to a good place...

philstopford
09-25-2012, 03:20 PM
I would bet the exact opposite, and would say we will see the next release of Modo being completely insane and grabbing a huge chunk of market share very quickly.

From the modcast, Brad suggests that nothing changes in the short term for the modo roadmap, so the next release, presumably 701, will be what Luxology defined for that release.

irwit
09-25-2012, 03:29 PM
Fantastic news, I used Modo back in V1 so I could select edges ( I was using Lightwave, lol ). Always seemed like a great app but then moved into working world and since then its been maya/max. Don't think either app has really added anything revolutionary in last 5/6 years?

Modo looks clean, forward thinking, great renderer and always expanding. Nuke is nuke, a fantastic app. Cant wait too see what the two come up with together!

Vray for Modo and sign me up!

tonina
09-25-2012, 03:30 PM
Never thought of this possibility. But now it makes sense.
For me the most important thing these companies do, beside create their products, is how they care for their customers.
:bowdown:

Mattoo
09-25-2012, 03:39 PM
Fantastic news...
Vray for Modo and sign me up!


For those asking for V-ray for Modo it usually means they haven't really used Modo's renderer. There are a lot of similarities already and quite a few benefits, not least of which the "realtime" renderer which does actually work and is completely integrated unlike all others I have seen.

Dillster
09-25-2012, 03:40 PM
For what it's worth, here is the email I got today, confirming the news;


"Dear Dylan,

I am really excited to be able to tell you that The Foundry and Luxology are a joint entity as of today.

Luxology is home to the award-winning 3D software modo as well as some of the most notable brains in the field of 3D modelling and rendering.

modo is an established player in the design, CAD and architectural visualisation worlds as well as our more familiar territory - VFX - where we share numerous clients including Smoke & Mirrors, Double Negative and The Embassy.

Luxology shares our desire to build products that address genuine industry need. They are innovative, customer focussed, community-driven and we can’t wait to start working with them.

Our products and background technology are very distinct, but are also obviously highly complementary. In the short term we will be continuing to develop the interaction between our products, which will be of immediate benefit to all of our customers. We can’t wait to see what our combined experience and knowledge will allow us to build in the long term.

We’ll keep you posted on developments, but in the interim please visit our Q&A page (http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/articles/2012/09/25/415/the-foundry-and-luxology-q-and-as/?utm_campaign=GLOBAL%2012%20Sept%20Luxology%20Announcement%20Email&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&elq=71f78b5cf67f45c9b236a7b1c6456b94&elqCampaignId=377) that we hope covers many of your questions.

Thanks,
<img style="WIDTH: 200px; HEIGHT: 106px">
Bill Collis
CEO"

Kabab
09-25-2012, 03:47 PM
For those asking for V-ray for Modo it usually means they haven't really used Modo's renderer. There are a lot of similarities already and quite a few benefits, not least of which the "realtime" renderer which does actually work and is completely integrated unlike all others I have seen.
Yeah the renderer is really nice we have been doing some testing..

For example this http://vimeo.com/43582193 animation was rendering at about 15min a frame with brute force GI and motion blur at 720p on a dual 6 core..

Nemoid
09-25-2012, 04:06 PM
That's a bit of a stretch. I'd say it's rudimentary character animation capabilities at best. A good foundation, but they can't compete with Maya (or SI) on this.
yes of course, but both Maya and Softimage are in animation since ages, that's why they are into a different league regarding animation toolset and responsiveness... so lets give Lux some time to refine animation toolset... :thumbsup:
They usually go ahead with every release enhancing all compartments from modelling to animation and rendering, and this was done with somewhat a 30 people team, now joining Foundry they will have even more resources to further enhance Modo.

WyattHarris
09-25-2012, 04:29 PM
Yeah the renderer is really nice we have been doing some testing..

For example this http://vimeo.com/43582193 animation was rendering at about 15min a frame with brute force GI and motion blur at 720p on a dual 6 core..
That took 15min per frame? Yikes, that is slow.

Kabab
09-25-2012, 04:45 PM
That took 15min per frame? Yikes, that is slow.
With brute force GI 720p glossy reflections, motion blur with fully detailed headlights and taillghts! It's pretty dam good! Some of the frames only took 7-8 minutes some took longer so 15 was an average..

inguatu
09-25-2012, 04:46 PM
The Modo renderer in Nuke will be awesome.. And can you imagine mari painting tech in Modo...

Sidefx is to niche Modo on the other hand is a broad tool in many many markets, adding kick ass dynamics and particle effects in Modo is easier then putting Houdini in as many markets as Modo is in...

you're over-simplifying this in an extremely bad way. It's one thing to be a fan of a product but another thing to completely disregard sensibility.

Kabab
09-25-2012, 04:54 PM
you're over-simplifying this in an extremely bad way. It's one thing to be a fan of a product but another thing to completely disregard sensibility.
I'm not saying its going to happen tomorrow it may take half a decade but in my experience acquiring technology is easier particularly stuff that is well researched then expanding your product lines into a broad range of verticle markets...

bjoern
09-25-2012, 05:50 PM
Not really.
With katana it can be incredibly powerful combination.

katana? muahahha you have not used in production did you? You must be kidding...
There is also no reason to use katana if you have houdini... it can do from a lighting/pipeline -standpoint exactly the same. Katana ha no advantage... if anything... then disatvantages

DimeS
09-25-2012, 05:50 PM
I'm not saying its going to happen tomorrow it may take half a decade but in my experience acquiring technology is easier particularly stuff that is well researched then expanding your product lines into a broad range of verticle markets...

Yes but saying it's easier to 'tack' on features as powerful as Houdini is a bit of nonsensical statement. Modo is a great modeller, but Houdini is a complete, full featured ecosystem.

bjoern
09-25-2012, 05:55 PM
The Modo renderer in Nuke will be awesome.. And can you imagine mari painting tech in Modo...

Sidefx is to niche Modo on the other hand is a broad tool in many many markets, adding kick ass dynamics and particle effects in Modo is easier then putting Houdini in as many markets as Modo is in...

you have obsessively no Idea what you are talking about....

Artbot
09-25-2012, 05:58 PM
Oh, please let this be as good as it sounds....

CHRiTTeR
09-25-2012, 06:00 PM
Damn, wasnt expecting that... imagine the possibilities.

Kabab
09-25-2012, 06:15 PM
Yes but saying it's easier to 'tack' on features as powerful as Houdini is a bit of nonsensical statement. Modo is a great modeller, but Houdini is a complete, full featured ecosystem.
Yeah obviously Houdini is a massive complex product! I was speaking more from the prospective of the overall company.. The foundry merging with sidefx still means both companies are just vfx software vendors..

Luxology on the other hand is used in so many different industries hell they even got a million CAD users now.. No small feat!

Over time they can develop and acquire simulation technology into Modo..

Dirtvic
09-25-2012, 06:31 PM
IN a compitation point of view
Autodesk vs Foundry + Luxology

I would say the competition will be same after 2 or 3 years as it is today...

As i didn't use Luxology product i donn know much about them. The only thing that i know that they are only team of 30 peoples and they have done some great jobs....

But for Foundry Mari 5/5 star always...:bounce:

on the other hand Autodesk Didn't make any big changes in Maya in last 4 years they are just putting some plugins DX11, bonus tools, subdivision technology thats't it......

but i always use Maya and foundry combination for my workflow

punchatz
09-25-2012, 06:41 PM
That took 15min per frame? Yikes, that is slow.

Wow...15 minutes a frame for what he decribes is quite fast...and I am a long time Arnold user.

SheepFactory
09-25-2012, 06:44 PM
Game over Autodesk

How is this "game over" for autodesk?

RockinAkin
09-25-2012, 07:35 PM
Fantastic news...

Modo has been a very promising 3d software - but now with Foundry behind it I hope it'll get the additional support and industry adoption it deserves.

Not to mention I'm definitely pleased with the prospect of a pure Foundry-based workflow. ;)

PiXeL_MoNKeY
09-25-2012, 07:39 PM
My guess is it is more game over for the casual Modo users. Remember the Foundry doesn't sell consumer/prosumer products, and those that started semi-cheap (Mari $900) have more than doubled in price with new releases (Mari $1980). Also, their other products like Nuke ($4900) and Hiero ($5000) don't lead me to believe that in the next few years that Modo will be selling for $1195 still. Once they start adding features and integrating with their other products I would say the price may double or triple to fall between Mari and Nuke.

I would say everyone should sit back and see how this all plays out before every starts jumping ship, or jumping for joy. Unless the Foundry plans on seriously changing their market and product strategies I am guessing some people may be in for a rude awaking down the road.

I personally hope it doesn't happen and I am wrong, but you start to see patterns with companies and this is one I have seen over the years with the Foundry.

-Eric

Larry_g1s
09-25-2012, 08:02 PM
Modo has been a very promising 3d software - but now with Foundry behind it I hope it'll get the additional support and industry adoption it deserves.Agreed! I've been enjoying using it this last year and with the prospect of more muscle behind them, I'm optimistic about the future of it.

Remember the Foundry doesn't sell consumer/prosumer products, and those that started semi-cheap (Mari $900) have more than doubled in price with new releases (Mari $1980). Also, their other products like Nuke ($4900) and Hiero ($5000) don't lead me to believe that in the next few years that Modo will be selling for $1195 still. Once they start adding features and integrating with their other products I would say the price may double or triple to fall between Mari and Nuke.

-EricThis has got to be the biggest concern for modo users. I can understand the price point moving up with new features and such, but I think it'll have to stay reasonable to keep it's user base.

grrinc
09-25-2012, 08:18 PM
Why is this even awesome news anyway? What difference would it truly make to anyone? How would it make Modo more attractive to folk that don't use it normally?

Cinema4d have implemented Nuke integration as they did with After Affects, but it was hardly treated with this kind of fan fare.

Help me out here, what real difference would it make?

Nemoid
09-25-2012, 08:38 PM
I think price for Modo should not go too much up to keep userbase. Not more than 2000 dollars for sure IMO.
Modo comes from same league of apps like Lightwave usually offering enough tools for a nice price tag, useful for small studios, solo users, designers, so on.
This is the product so far.

If it goes ahead as a high end app, like Maya or Houdini, even considering development efforts, i think price should be kept a bit lower compared to others, and most important, policy with customers should be different from AD one.
Luxology has an history of being great with customers, talk to userbase into a very friendly way, getting and providing feedback through their forums, modcasts and more, so i wouldn't expect a different behaviour at all.
As regarding software, it is a good app, still not at same level of high end, but surely bringing new ideas /paradigms to the game.

Its not parametric as Houdini, which is in its own league and already widely adopted within industry. But, Modo could bring nice things within the industry as well, especially regarding modelling with precise measurements, and also as complementary app to Zbrush for many tasks. Animation should evolve in time too.

Another thing that Modo has and could be great within industry in the next future, is actually its development platform called Nexus.
Lux uses that platform to develop new Modo iterations, but i think its possible that studios could use that as well, to develop or integrate proprietary tools, providing them with nice UIs too.

cresshead
09-25-2012, 09:12 PM
wonder if they are looking to get some of the autodesk (xsi, maya and max) people who go laid off....maybe modo 701 with be HUGE update?...i see they're hiring too (lux)

Larry_g1s
09-25-2012, 11:00 PM
Why is this even awesome news anyway? What difference would it truly make to anyone? How would it make Modo more attractive to folk that don't use it normally?

Cinema4d have implemented Nuke integration as they did with After Affects, but it was hardly treated with this kind of fan fare.

Help me out here, what real difference would it make?An integration is no where near comparison of two companies actually merging. :)

scrawford
09-25-2012, 11:34 PM
Why is this even awesome news anyway? What difference would it truly make to anyone? How would it make Modo more attractive to folk that don't use it normally?

Cinema4d have implemented Nuke integration as they did with After Affects, but it was hardly treated with this kind of fan fare.

Help me out here, what real difference would it make?

Id like to see an integration of compositing with more heavy 3d operations. I thought nuke was trying for this awhile ago, but it seemed to dissapear. As a generalist whos been stuck as a compositer for the last yearn and a half, I would really like to dig much deeper into a 3d toolset when im composting.

keeping departments separate is probably great for big film studios, but when your doing most of a shot yourself a full package might come in handy.

I need a grass field with some instanced grass for a comp. Would be nice to just put it together in nuke, and be able to tweak it mid comp if I need to. Rather than go back to a 3d guy who cant see what the final comp looks like and tell him I want him to do some weird stuff with some noises to randomize things he will have no idea what will look like.

Cageman
09-26-2012, 12:11 AM
Rather than go back to a 3d guy who cant see what the final comp looks like and tell him I want him to do some weird stuff with some noises to randomize things he will have no idea what will look like.

Isn't this what Clarisse is doing right now? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMu9JRX7Pps) (at 2:35 they showcase the compositing aspect of the software).

leuey
09-26-2012, 02:18 AM
Yes - I expect something like that eventually. Clarisse is neat - but I don't want to use their renderer...I already use/like/know/trust modo's rendering engine and would like to use that within a compositing tool. There will be challenges but I suspect a lot of fun times ahead for users of both Nuke and modo.

-G

Isn't this what Clarisse is doing right now? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMu9JRX7Pps) (at 2:35 they showcase the compositing aspect of the software).

Tex3D
09-26-2012, 02:27 AM
My guess is it is more game over for the casual Modo users. Remember the Foundry doesn't sell consumer/prosumer products, and those that started semi-cheap (Mari $900) have more than doubled in price with new releases (Mari $1980). Also, their other products like Nuke ($4900) and Hiero ($5000) don't lead me to believe that in the next few years that Modo will be selling for $1195 still. Once they start adding features and integrating with their other products I would say the price may double or triple to fall between Mari and Nuke.

I would say everyone should sit back and see how this all plays out before every starts jumping ship, or jumping for joy. Unless the Foundry plans on seriously changing their market and product strategies I am guessing some people may be in for a rude awaking down the road.

I personally hope it doesn't happen and I am wrong, but you start to see patterns with companies and this is one I have seen over the years with the Foundry.

-Eric

This is pretty much my feeling on the subject. :thumbsup:

mustique
09-26-2012, 02:36 AM
This is really exciting news. Having very different kind of userbases, both parties could attract new customers, with modo renderer for nuke/katana possibly being the first product of this merger. I know I'd die for the modo renderer in maya :drool:

BTW, does anybody have the feeling that the upcoming ClarisseFX product might have played a role for that merger to happen?

leuey
09-26-2012, 02:51 AM
Not to de-rail but here you go....

moma - modo renderer in Maya (http://www.jacobobarreiro.com/jweb/moma/)

I know I'd die for the modo renderer in maya :drool:
?

mustique
09-26-2012, 03:02 AM
Not to de-rail but here you go....

moma - modo renderer in Maya (http://www.jacobobarreiro.com/jweb/moma/)

Yep, I'm keeping an eye on that one but didn't have the chance to join the beta since I'm on OSX for some time. The latest video of moma is mind boggling really, that guy should be hired by lux immediately imo, so moma can evolve into a fully featured official maya plugin renderer.

Kabab
09-26-2012, 03:06 AM
Wow...15 minutes a frame for what he decribes is quite fast...and I am a long time Arnold user.
I just doubled checked the average frame time was actually more like 8 minutes with the slowest frames taking about 15min... on a dual 6 core 2.66 ghz xenon's...

leuey
09-26-2012, 03:36 AM
modo's fast...very fast (great render btw) modo's as fast as anything out there...I don't really think that's in dispute. The biggest 'speed' upgrade is the interactive preview - it's a couple of years ahead of anything else out there feature-wise and plenty fast on top of that.

-G

I just doubled checked the average frame time was actually more like 8 minutes with the slowest frames taking about 15min... on a dual 6 core 2.66 ghz xenon's...

Zendorf
09-26-2012, 03:44 AM
Interesting developments indeed! On the downside I can certainly see the price of Modo doubling at some stage, but on the upside, it will really get Modo up to the level of the major 3d apps eventually.

I have a license of 601 but rarely touch it, as though I love the renderer and some of the tools, the workflow just doesn't jive with me. Really hoping that this merger and some industry direction via the Foundry will shape up Modo for animation production. Currently the workflow still caters too much for those doing still images and not animation. It is very wysiwyg , which is by design, but needs much more of a procedural/parametric workflow to cut it for animation production. Nodal shading please :cry:

With developments like Clarisee and the rapid development of Blender (GPU pathtracer and compositing), and now this, it is very exciting to see the direction the industry is going in. Btw, the Foundry did approach Ton (Mr Blender himself) about using Blender's Cycles renderer for use within Nuke, but this didn't go down well with the community and never went anywhere. My guess is that access to Modo's renderer for use within Nuke/Katana was the main motivation for the merger. Looking forward to see where this goes...

NamLy
09-26-2012, 03:44 AM
Damn . Seem like Maya combine with After Effect . But they gone too far to combine together . it seems that a new future to born a software all in one for game and TV ads . :bowdown:

I am very scared and curious

NamLy
09-26-2012, 03:45 AM
Damn . Seem like Maya combine with After Effect . But they gone too far to combine together . it seems that a new future to born a software all in one for game and TV ads . :bowdown:

I am very scared and curious

NamLy
09-26-2012, 03:47 AM
Interesting developments indeed! On the downside I can certainly see the price of Modo doubling at some stage, but on the upside, it will really get Modo up to the level of the major 3d apps eventually.

I have a license of 601 but rarely touch it, as though I love the renderer and some of the tools, the workflow just doesn't jive with me. Really hoping that this merger and some industry direction via the Foundry will shape up Modo for animation production. Currently the workflow still caters too much for those doing still images and not animation. It is very wysiwyg , which is by design, but needs much more of a procedural/parametric workflow to cut it for animation production. Nodal shading please :cry:

With developments like Clarisee and the rapid development of Blender (GPU pathtracer and compositing), and now this, it is very exciting to see the direction the industry is going in. Btw, the Foundry did approach Ton (Mr Blender himself) about using Blender's Cycles renderer for use within Nuke, but this didn't go down well with the community and never went anywhere. My guess is that access to Modo's renderer for use within Nuke/Katana was the main motivation for the merger. Looking forward to see where this goes...

Damn . Seem like Maya combine with After Effect . But they gone too far to combine together . it seems that a new future to born a software all in one for game and TV ads . :bowdown:

I am very scared and curious

DuttyFoot
09-26-2012, 03:54 AM
Here is a QA page over at lux where i think the majority of our questions will be answered.

http://www.luxology.com/products/The_Foundry_announcement/questions_and_answers/index.aspx

http://www.luxology.com/products/index.aspx

I am sure when the next version comes out it will probably be close to or over 2 thousand dollars.

Kabab
09-26-2012, 04:39 AM
http://www.fxguide.com/ has some video coverage!

R10k
09-26-2012, 05:43 AM
The price increase is my biggest worry. I ditched Softimage for Modo because it was decently featured (for what I do), easily affordable, and had a flexible license system. Because the price is most certainly going to go through the roof and the license system change, I now feel like I've made a mistake. Hopefully not, but I'm having trouble convincing myself the future will be a good one.

Numptus1
09-26-2012, 02:40 PM
Rumours are they will rename themselves Fuxology.

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 02:52 PM
The price increase is my biggest worry. I ditched Softimage for Modo because it was decently featured (for what I do), easily affordable, and had a flexible license system. Because the price is most certainly going to go through the roof and the license system change, I now feel like I've made a mistake. Hopefully not, but I'm having trouble convincing myself the future will be a good one.

I was recently thinking of moving over to Modo, and this news deters me more than it attracts me to either company. This and Modo's paid demo lead me to believe this is not a company I want to deal with.

bergj
09-26-2012, 03:27 PM
This and Modo's paid demo lead me to believe this is not a company I want to deal with.

Lets not spread misinformation here. While i own modo and know its an amazin product the fact is that there are _two_ trials - one free 15 day version without the sdk and one $25 30 day version with the sdk. Having said that, in my 2 years using modo i have never had a reason to use the sdk.

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 03:35 PM
Lets not spread misinformation here. While i own modo and know its an amazin product the fact is that there are _two_ trials - one free 15 day version without the sdk and one $25 30 day version with the sdk. Having said that, in my 2 years using modo i have never had a reason to use the sdk.

I'm not getting into the paid demo argument with you. I did not spread misinformation. Fact: Modo has a paid demo. period. If you want to split hairs then have fun doing that.

yog
09-26-2012, 03:42 PM
I was recently thinking of moving over to Modo, and this news deters me more than it attracts me to either company. This and Modo's paid demo lead me to believe this is not a company I want to deal with.
These days I try not to let the attitude of a company (or company spokes person), deter me from using a product if it is worth while. There are still a couple companies that I will avoid through previous bad experience (and no, Autodesk isn't one of them), but the supportive nature of Luxology is certainly a plus when it comes to using Modo. You may not always get what you ask for, but there is certainly a sense they listen to their customer base, and its not unusual for general questions on the forums to be answered by company staff. The fact that Modo is my "go-to / fallback" app when using other software doesn't hurt either :thumbsup: .

Whilst I can understand their thinking somewhat, i.e. a 30 day trial of Modo for free, or pay for a tutorial set and get a longer trial, I do think that it is a situation too easily misunderstood (only remembering the paid demo part). It certainly seems at odds with the rest of the Luxology philosophy, especially when you consider the near total lack of copy protection.

Personally I'm quite optimistic about the merger.
Short term I don't see very much changing. Medium term we will probably see mainly improvements to data transfer. Long term - who knows ?, although I'm not seeing the level of total integration that some envisage.

Price wise, I would be surprised if much changes in the next couple of years. I see the two products as being in different markets, and whilst Modo is mainly based in the small studio / freelancer market, I see the price continuing to reflect this.

The only concern I have at the moment is the copy protection in Modo, and the potential Foundry node locked system. Working in several different places, it is a great help for me to just be able to install Modo on any machine, and as long as I have the text file licence, I can use it wherever I like. If the Foundry arm of the management structure ever decide to "standardise" copy protection (to their current model), it is going to put a serious kink in my ability to have my software travel with me.

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 03:58 PM
These days I try not to let the attitude of a company (or company spokes person), deter me from using a product if it is worth while. There are still a couple companies that I will avoid through previous bad experience (and no, Autodesk isn't one of them), but the supportive nature of Luxology is certainly a plus when it comes to using Modo. You may not always get what you ask for, but there is certainly a sense they listen to their customer base, and its not unusual for general questions on the forums to be answered by company staff. The fact that Modo is my "go-to / fallback" app when using other software doesn't hurt either :thumbsup: .

Whilst I can understand their thinking somewhat, i.e. a 30 day trial of Modo for free, or pay for a tutorial set and get a longer trial, I do think that it is a situation too easily misunderstood (only remembering the paid demo part). It certainly seems at odds with the rest of the Luxology philosophy, especially when you consider the near total lack of copy protection.

P

That is good to hear that the paid demo seems against the rest of their philosophy.
From a interested potential customers stand point, when your first experience is asking you to pay for a demo it makes you wonder if that is how they run things around there.
I personally will never understand their paid demo policy. I honestly keep forgetting about it since it is so uncommon and every time I take a look at Modo, it turns me straight away.

bergj
09-26-2012, 04:11 PM
That is good to hear that the paid demo seems against the rest of their philosophy.
From a interested potential customers stand point, when your first experience is asking you to pay for a demo it makes you wonder if that is how they run things around there.
I personally will never understand their paid demo policy. I honestly keep forgetting about it since it is so uncommon and every time I take a look at Modo, it turns me straight away.

Should we go over this again? Why are you ignoring the fact that there are _two_ demos? Do you feel the need to use the SDK on a software that you have used for only a short time? That is the only difference in the paid and the non-paid.

DrBalthar
09-26-2012, 04:14 PM
Should we go over this again? Why are you ignoring the fact that there are _two_ demos? Do you think its right that a company should give away their SDK in a free trial? Autodesk doesnt give you the SDK when you have a student trial of Maya/Max. Why should luxology do that? Please respond.
Well they did not include in 3dsmax till 2013 now the installer /downloads are identical so the trial has the SDK. Not including the SDK hurts you more than any gain. Why would you want to lockout potential third party developers to make your product more attractive I never understood that!

bergj
09-26-2012, 04:20 PM
Well they did not include in 3dsmax till 2013 now the installer /downloads are identical so the trial has the SDK. Not including the SDK hurts you more than any gain. Why would you want to lockout potential third party developers to make your product more attractive I never understood that!

Well we're not talking an NBA or NFL million $ lockout here. We're talking $25.

yog
09-26-2012, 04:20 PM
From a interested potential customers stand point, when your first experience is asking you to pay for a demo it makes you wonder if that is how they run things around there.
I can certainly understand the sentiment. The saying "You can only many a first impression once", holds true for all industries, but I think it might even have more relevance in ours, with the more than normal amount of news and industry information being so directly disseminated via the internet.

Whilst it does seem an odd situation, it seems to suit Luxology, and with them having the sales figures I would have imagined that they would have changed it by now if it weren't working :shrug:

Whilst curious, I can't say I spend too much time thinking about it. The software does what I expect of it, it is (currently) easily transportable, and the price is right for me.

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 04:57 PM
Should we go over this again? Why are you ignoring the fact that there are _two_ demos? Do you feel the need to use the SDK on a software that you have used for only a short time? That is the only difference in the paid and the non-paid.

Because 15 days is almost a useless amount of time with a busy schedule. In my world the 15 day demo does not exist as I have tried it and was only to open it maybe twice. 30 days is barley enough.
Why do you feel the need to defend it in such a harsh manor? The SDk has nothing to do with it so drop that.
is this the first of these conversations you have been in? This has been gone over 1,000 times. This is a pointless argument especially when dealing with a overzealous user.

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 05:00 PM
I can certainly understand the sentiment. The saying "You can only many a first impression once", holds true for all industries, but I think it might even have more relevance in ours, with the more than normal amount of news and industry information being so directly disseminated via the internet.

Whilst it does seem an odd situation, it seems to suit Luxology, and with them having the sales figures I would have imagined that they would have changed it by now if it weren't working :shrug:
.

Yes I agree. It must be working for them, but I am living proof it is also a roadblock in becoming a customer as well.

bergj
09-26-2012, 05:23 PM
Because 15 days is almost a useless amount of time with a busy schedule. In my world the 15 day demo does not exist as I have tried it and was only to open it maybe twice. 30 days is barley enough.
Why do you feel the need to defend it in such a harsh manor? The SDk has nothing to do with it so drop that.
is this the first of these conversations you have been in? This has been gone over 1,000 times. This is a pointless argument especially when dealing with a overzealous user.

Well we wouldnt be having this conversation if you had said

15 days is almost a useless amount of time with a busy schedule. In my world the 15 day demo does not exist as I have tried it and was only to open it maybe twice. 30 days is barley enough.


in the first place instead of railing on a paid demo without any context. How am I supposed to know your life situation if you dont explain it? I cant read your mind. Please - stop trolling me.

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 05:25 PM
Well we wouldnt be having this conversation if you had said




in the first place instead of railing on a paid demo without any context. How am I supposed to know your life situation if you dont explain it? I cant read your mind. Please - stop trolling me.

Dude your trolling me, wtf is wrong with you? Go look up any thread about this and you will have your answers as to why people have problems with the paid demo.

bergj
09-26-2012, 05:33 PM
Dude your trolling me, wtf is wrong with you? Go look up any thread about this and you will have your answers as to why people have problems with the paid demo.

Theres nothing wrong with me. Im a paying modo user for the past 2 years and you railed against the paid demo with no context and called me names and now you got called out on giving me incomplete information. May I ask whats wrong with you? Just admit that you were in the wrong.

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 05:38 PM
Theres nothing wrong with me. Im a paying modo user for the past 2 years and you railed against the paid demo with no context and called me names and now you got called out on giving me incomplete information. May I ask whats wrong with you? Just admit that you were in the wrong.

Nobody is wrong, they have a paid demo. You don't have to tell me your a paying customer your attitude made that clear long ago. Where did I call you a name?
"Called out for giving incomplete info", give me a break. Paid user for 2 years really? You sound like you just fell off the truck yesterday.

CB_3D
09-26-2012, 05:48 PM
Nobody is wrong, they have a paid demo. You don't have to tell me your a paying customer your attitude made that clear long ago. Where did I call you a name?
"Called out for giving incomplete info", give me a break. Paid user for 2 years really? You sound like you just fell off the truck yesterday.

The paid demo is to provide the possibility to do commercial work without paying a full license, hence "Production demo".

Quite ingenious, IMO.

But yeah, both the regular and the production demo could be a bit longer.

That said, very interesting news.

-Sai-
09-26-2012, 06:39 PM
good job cgtalk.You guys still manage to turn this into software X vs software Y.

Great news.More competitive software on the market = good for the artist!I can't wait to see what they will come up with.

leuey
09-26-2012, 07:37 PM
Fact: modo has a free demo. period.

Seriously dude...get a life and get back on topic

-G

Fact: Modo has a paid demo. period.

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 07:52 PM
Fact: modo has a free demo. period.

Seriously dude...get a life and get back on topic

-G

You do realize your comment is exactly like mine?
I would also take your own advice since you mirrored my actions. To best me it would of been better to say, Fact: Modo has a free and paid demo. All I was doing was pointing out that in reality they have a paid demo unlike any other company. Why fanboys want to take offense to that is beyond me.

bergj
09-26-2012, 08:24 PM
You do realize your comment is exactly like mine?
I would also take your own advice since you mirrored my actions. To best me it would of been better to say, Fact: Modo has a free and paid demo. All I was doing was pointing out that in reality they have a paid demo unlike any other company. Why fanboys want to take offense to that is beyond me.

Honestly you come off as really insulting man. Calling people names, accusing others of fanboyism. The fact is that I have a pipeline of about 5 core programs, modo being one piece. The other fact is that apparently you havent used the program at all despite free and paid (if you swing that way) demos being available. Why you continue to post in this modo-centric thread I dont know because you obviously dont have anything constructive to add. I have a hunch that you want to get the last word in, though.

Venkman
09-26-2012, 08:47 PM
What was this thread about again?

BigPixolin
09-26-2012, 08:50 PM
Honestly you come off as really insulting man. Calling people names, accusing others of fanboyism. The fact is that I have a pipeline of about 5 core programs, modo being one piece. The other fact is that apparently you havent used the program at all despite free and paid (if you swing that way) demos being available. Why you continue to post in this modo-centric thread I dont know because you obviously dont have anything constructive to add. I have a hunch that you want to get the last word in, though.

I sure am going to get my word in, I'm not going to sit by and read your nonesense.
Re-read my posts. I in no way wanted to get into any argument over the paid demo, it has been discussed to death. Apperntly you are unaware of this even with your vast 2 years with Modo.
I had a cordial exchange with Yog as he had no reason to blindly attack me.
I hope I come off as insulting to you.
You accused me of spreading misinformation which is just silly, accused me of calling you a name.
You and leuy came at me with some blind fanboy crap and I called it like it is.
Stop getting so butthurt you are only a user of the software and it is only software.
I'll see your lame "I bet you want the last word in" and raise you, I bet it is going to be more blind fanboyism.

leuey
09-26-2012, 09:01 PM
Oh my lord! Get over it. It's a thread about a merger and you have some stick up your @ss about Luxology offering a paid demo alongside their free one! How dare they! The nerve!

Get..over...it....and quit mucking up this thread.

(oh, and go Celtics!...see I have something else in common with bergj besides being a 'fanboy')

-G

WyattHarris
09-26-2012, 10:05 PM
Honestly you come off as really insulting man.
Are you new in town? It's BigPixolin, of course he comes off as insulting.

Regardless, he mentioned he didn't like the paid demo and was concerned about the company in general. Yog offered friendly advice, you did not.

Alright, you ready, you ready?
Let's get it on!

philstopford
09-27-2012, 12:16 AM
What was this thread about again?

Socks, I think.

R10k
09-27-2012, 11:45 AM
Are you new in town? It's BigPixolin, of course he comes off as insulting.

:D

How am I supposed to know your life situation if you dont explain it? I cant read your mind.

I think you got beat there, BigPixolin. That said, I am with you that Lux have some odd practices. And, some dodgy ones, like ripping people off for the horrible Imagesynth and pretending nothing ever happened. On the flipside of the coin, their unusual way of doing things also means they have (or had?) a licensing system that rewarded people for being a customer. You take the good with the bad in every situation.

leigh
09-27-2012, 12:43 PM
Come on now guys, I didn't want to have to do this, but you really leave me no choice.

I have to bring in the Peace Ponies.

http://www.leighvanderbyl.com/temp/peacePonies.jpg

beverins
09-27-2012, 03:09 PM
I am overcome with the peace and love :love:

luxology and foundry will hopefully have some very awesome babies

RobertoOrtiz
09-27-2012, 03:13 PM
I am overcome with the peace and love :love:

luxology and foundry will hopefully have some very awesome babies

That made me laugh hard.

I wish the best to Luxology and the Foundry.

Fianna
09-28-2012, 10:02 PM
R10k: Just curious - what was so horrible about Imagesynth?

R10k
09-29-2012, 04:17 PM
It liked to crash. In fact, I think it's primary feature was crashing, with some image tiling taking place by accident. It was just a completely broken tool, sold without the possibility of a refund and without any kind of support. Lots of people pointed this out on the forums, but Lux did nothing to support it.

Some people theorised it was because Allegorithmic were supposed to do something about as the original developers, but... who knows. All I know was that despite some decent tech behind it, the standalone tool was so unstable it was borderline unusable.

CHRiTTeR
09-29-2012, 08:25 PM
It liked to crash. In fact, I think it's primary feature was crashing, with some image tiling taking place by accident. It was just a completely broken tool, sold without the possibility of a refund and without any kind of support. Lots of people pointed this out on the forums, but Lux did nothing to support it.

Some people theorised it was because Allegorithmic were supposed to do something about as the original developers, but... who knows. All I know was that despite some decent tech behind it, the standalone tool was so unstable it was borderline unusable.

It never crashed on me though... i guess i was lucky

R10k
09-30-2012, 01:07 AM
Yep :)

If you fed it just the right size of image it would often remain stable, but if you moved outside those perfect settings it'd explode. Of course, this would've been okay if the thing had the option to save, but of course that basic thing had been overlooked.

Gruv
09-30-2012, 07:37 AM
Fact: modo has a free demo. period.

Seriously dude...get a life and get back on topic

-G

No, not period. The also have a paid demo. The free demo is extremely short compared to other companies free demos which are usually 30 days.

As far as Modo goes, the interface is a real mess. I used the program back when it was 1.0 and it was ok. I was coming from lightwave, so I thought it was great. I since moved to Softimage because Modo was nothing more than a modeler and it still had a ton of bugs back then, like the config files getting corrupted, the 2 point polygon mess and many of the same mistakes that were made in Lightwave that finally drove me away from it.
While the modo renderer is nice, it has the absolutely worst texturing system I've ever seen on a 3d package. Photoshop layers work ok for 2d, but are a terrible idea for 3d. I recently got a look at 5.01 and the animation looks like it's going to have the same issues that Lightwave has. I was completely unimpressed with it. With all the time they have had I would have expected something much better.

As for the users, they seem to be the same rabid fanatics that lightwave had (since most of them came from lightwave) and as is obvious in this thread, they tend to not think things through very well and jump to conclusions. Modo users should be more worried than excited about this merger. this program is not ready to take on the big boys yet and if anything will probably cause modo to lose users instead of gain them. Also, it's extremely unlikely that large companies that have their pipelines established in Maya/Max will be dropping them any time soon even if modo was as good as seem to you guys think it is (which it is not).

Gruv
09-30-2012, 07:39 AM
good job cgtalk.You guys still manage to turn this into software X vs software Y.

Great news.More competitive software on the market = good for the artist!I can't wait to see what they will come up with.

Where in this post did they announce more software?

Gruv
09-30-2012, 07:42 AM
You can't argue with lightwave users. They are always right despite all the facts that point to the opposite.

I sure am going to get my word in, I'm not going to sit by and read your nonesense.
Re-read my posts. I in no way wanted to get into any argument over the paid demo, it has been discussed to death. Apperntly you are unaware of this even with your vast 2 years with Modo.
I had a cordial exchange with Yog as he had no reason to blindly attack me.
I hope I come off as insulting to you.
You accused me of spreading misinformation which is just silly, accused me of calling you a name.
You and leuy came at me with some blind fanboy crap and I called it like it is.
Stop getting so butthurt you are only a user of the software and it is only software.
I'll see your lame "I bet you want the last word in" and raise you, I bet it is going to be more blind fanboyism.

R10k
09-30-2012, 08:27 AM
As for the users, they seem to be the same rabid fanatics that lightwave had...

Yo Mr 'shove everyone in a box', I'm not a Lightwave guy, and I chose Modo of my own volition. Modo might not be perfect, but it's perfectly capable at doing a lot of things. If it reminds you too much of Lightwave, that's fine. Just try not to knock people for using what works for them.

Ciuccio
09-30-2012, 09:15 AM
No, not period. The also have a paid demo. The free demo is extremely short compared to other companies free demos which are usually 30 days.

As far as Modo goes, the interface is a real mess. I used the program back when it was 1.0 and it was ok. I was coming from lightwave, so I thought it was great. I since moved to Softimage because Modo was nothing more than a modeler and it still had a ton of bugs back then, like the config files getting corrupted, the 2 point polygon mess and many of the same mistakes that were made in Lightwave that finally drove me away from it.
While the modo renderer is nice, it has the absolutely worst texturing system I've ever seen on a 3d package. Photoshop layers work ok for 2d, but are a terrible idea for 3d. I recently got a look at 5.01 and the animation looks like it's going to have the same issues that Lightwave has. I was completely unimpressed with it. With all the time they have had I would have expected something much better.

As for the users, they seem to be the same rabid fanatics that lightwave had (since most of them came from lightwave) and as is obvious in this thread, they tend to not think things through very well and jump to conclusions. Modo users should be more worried than excited about this merger. this program is not ready to take on the big boys yet and if anything will probably cause modo to lose users instead of gain them. Also, it's extremely unlikely that large companies that have their pipelines established in Maya/Max will be dropping them any time soon even if modo was as good as seem to you guys think it is (which it is not).

Totally agree with you, modo messing your mesh without reason (how many software needing a "meshcleanup" tool do you know?), also the "great modeller" hype is only hype, I don't see nothing in modo cannot actually do (more fast and without messing meshes) in softimage or blender. Before some fanboy (modo fanboys are aggressive like or more blender fanboys) accusing me about low modo knowledge, I sold my modo license this month after three months of struggling, customizing it via pipetool and try all the different tools inside modo (another bad point... how fancy and not so useful tools have modo? If I can accept, via customizing, the too clicks modo workflow, when I must rigging character meshes the workflow is a nightmare...). And yes, the interface is sexy when you open it first time, after a bit, when you work with it and don't look it like an object is messy (I maximized viewport (0 numer pad key) and try to assign a shourtcut to every useful tools. ).

IMHO shader tree is not bad at all, and I like rendering capabilities, I think modo rendering is very good, fast and with a nice output, need some polish and my sensation is about less control compared to mental ray (I prefer modo rendering). In very complex scene, where you have 50 and more materials, shader tree can become a nightmare, shader mask are your fried, and without shader mask and fast search option cannot work with it.

I don't see a so bright future for modo, modo must cage a lot for accommodate Foundry needs, with this cage modo rick to lost the actual userbase. Also price, must increase a lot, Foundry is a big corporation with a important (and without scruples) financier behind (the Carlyle group). The great user friendly attitude and license system has now Luxology risk to disappear soon (in 701 release?)

macreation
09-30-2012, 02:58 PM
Hi Guys,

I been following this thread with some curiosity and it has thus far been interesting the see the varied and somewhat colourful views regarding this merger and of modo users.

As a user of modo (not exclusively) of the last five years, I have been been impressed with the upgrade path thus far. Yes, it still lags behind the other major players, and yes it does have its quirks and flaws. And yes, the shader tree can be a pain, but you just got know how to use it to your advantage (there are shortcuts for navigating it). I completely agree with other opinions in regards to its 'clicky' nature to. Which package doesn't have flaws?

However, I do feel that the future for modo is positive. People are to quick to assume that modo technology (nexus) will be assimilated into the rest of the portfolio but I feel that having more engineers on the case will bring out a better stronger (more stable – hopefully) 3D package at the end of the day. Yes the price will rise, but this is expected as more features get added and more resources are used in its creation.

As far as users go, they won't lose the user base (in the short term at least), maybe they'll gain users in the form of Foundry user base.

To those who are considering jumping ship. Don't. just wait and see. Thus far the only announcement that's been made is the merger and that says absolutely nothing about the direction or plans of the new company.

Positive modo user.

gauranga108
10-02-2012, 09:31 PM
So happy about this merger.

Nuke needs a renderer and modo has a good one.

Nuke is the most amazing comp app out there in my opinion.

The Nuke community is really great as well.

Als
10-04-2012, 07:15 PM
I think people very often miss software packages for what they are and aimed for.
Modo is excellent for quick no nonsense work.
In short, this is good step for rendering and 3D solution inside nuke, combining with 3Delight it will make very serious contender for finishing work, and also get a real node platform for small shops for compositing, even motion graphics.
Good luck to them both, they have strong products and it seems they have vision for the future.
Industry again is dividing into plugin tools and too deep technical tools. I don't like neither, they should be both, and nuke now has a chance to become exactly that.
If they make new bugs tracking website, please don't call it Daiichi.

My 50 para


Als

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