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View Full Version : 9600XT performance in 3d apps??


gizmo1990
12-02-2003, 09:21 AM
Im looking to get one of these and wondered if anyone out there had any experience of them in 3d apps, specifically LW and Max?

Id appreciate some general thoughts on the stability and performance of the card?

...and before anyone recommends one, I'm not interested in the FX5700 Ultra. Yes I know its probably a little faster but since the card has to fit in my shuttle the 9600xt seems the more economical and elegant design.

Thanks,

Jim.

CgFX
12-02-2003, 11:58 PM
Is the 9600XT smaller than the 5700U? They both look like single slot, ATX form factors to me.

matty429
12-31-2003, 07:27 AM
The 5700 ultra is HUGE.....

As long as you don't plan on using dual monitors...ATI will suffice...

Though I always thought it would be cool to throw an all in wonder into a pc like yours ...

imashination
12-31-2003, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by gizmo1990
Im looking to get one of these and wondered if anyone out there had any experience of them in 3d apps, specifically LW and Max?

Id appreciate some general thoughts on the stability and performance of the card?

...and before anyone recommends one, I'm not interested in the FX5700 Ultra. Yes I know its probably a little faster but since the card has to fit in my shuttle the 9600xt seems the more economical and elegant design.

Thanks,

Jim.

Regarding the size, different manufacturers use different heatsinks. Some will use the dual slot monster while lots still use a single slot solution. you can get all gfx cards, even the high end ones, in a single slot config.

matty429
12-31-2003, 04:05 PM
ITS HUGE (http://img.neoseeker.com/v_image.php?articleid=1591&image=26)

imashination
12-31-2003, 04:57 PM
But thats only a single slot gfx card? the shuttle systems will take any standard AGP gfx card you through at it, I have a 9800 in mine.

http://www.powercolor.com.tw/page2/productlist.asp?page=1&prodid=9&id=1&sn=9&temp1=1

gizmo1990
12-31-2003, 05:02 PM
Well I took the plunge and purchased the 9600XT, still can't believe there are no other users here??

Anyway I can report no problems with it (so far) and it performs very well indeed. It also appears to be fairly oc'able which sweetens the deal more.

matty429: You're right the 5700 is considerably bigger! I don't understand your dual monitor comment though, the asus seems to support it fine? I believe there have been some driver issues with this feature but ati seems to be sorting it out.

matty429
12-31-2003, 05:21 PM
Ati cannot do this


Image (ftp://63.196.58.222/screen.jpg)

CgFX
12-31-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by matty429
ITS HUGE (http://img.neoseeker.com/v_image.php?articleid=1591&image=26)
We could have saved everyone some time and confusion if you had said the 5700U was an inch longer (still with the ATX spec) rather then suggesting it was "HUGE". :)

matty429
12-31-2003, 05:55 PM
I let the image do all the talking....

imashination
12-31-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Ati cannot do this


Image (ftp://67.113.86.159/screen.jpg)

Yes it can.

matty429
12-31-2003, 07:15 PM
Show me

stephen2002
12-31-2003, 10:44 PM
It might be able to do it however you are gonig to loose 3D acceleration on your secondary monitor.

elvis
12-31-2003, 11:31 PM
you've already bought the card, so my comments are a moot point now anyway...

generally speaking i've found nvidia's openGL drive quality to be far more stable and better performing (free from graphical glitches and the like) than ATi's. a number of my clients with ATi hardware have had numerous issues with ATi drivers under maya and 3dsmax. some of these issues were resolved with much tweaking of the card's drivers, but some still exist to this day.

it sounds like your card is behaving itself however, so that's luck in your favour. ATi are improvnig their drivers considerably, but i've still found them lagging slightly in openGL. they are concentrating their efforts on DirectX speed, performance and image quality because that's their main market and cash cow.

if given the choice here and now for a pro 3d system (choosing only ati or nvidia gaming cards), i'd still stick with nvidia. i'd prefer a quadro, but not everyone's budgets can stretch that far.

on the other hand if gaming was my thing, i'd definitely go for ATi. just my personal preference. i've used both manufacturers cards for a length of time now, and that's my opinion on where things sit right now. in feb/march both are bringing out new cards, and who knows what will happen then.

imashination
12-31-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Show me

Send me another monitor to test it with and I will :)

matty429
12-31-2003, 11:56 PM
AHaha...then how do you know it will work....It simply does not...I have a 9500 pro 2 monitors and maya...does not work...substitute 9500 pro for nvidia...Works perfect...

imashination
01-01-2004, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by matty429
AHaha...then how do you know it will work....It simply does not...I have a 9500 pro 2 monitors and maya...does not work...substitute 9500 pro for nvidia...Works perfect...

I know because I have had 2 monitors on this machine in the past, but now, I don't. Perhaps the dual screen problem says more about maya than it does ati?...

elvis
01-01-2004, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by matty429
AHaha...then how do you know it will work....It simply does not...I have a 9500 pro 2 monitors and maya...does not work...substitute 9500 pro for nvidia...Works perfect...

did you use microsoft's dual monitor setup, or ati's hydravision?

matty429
01-01-2004, 10:33 AM
I'm waiting for someone to show it working....It'll be a long time.....a VERY long time...This is a proven issue...

ATI = 3d resoultion 2040x2048. A hardware limitation...
It Doesn't matter what spanning software you use..
Software rendering will span as far as you want... any window out of a dual monitor setup using D3D or OpenGL, will stop at 2048 .....Period...Try to fix it all you want...

imashination
01-01-2004, 12:46 PM
Yes you can.

http://www.imashination.com/files/ati.jpg

matty429
01-01-2004, 07:03 PM
Ok...now download Maya PLE...and tell me how that works....Its Looking to me Like your rendering in software opengl

CgFX
01-01-2004, 08:35 PM
Yes, as I mentioned on the sister thread to this he is likely being punted to software OpenGL rendering path whch would perform fine on a modern system with such a simple example model.

opus13
01-03-2004, 08:49 AM
uh... nvidia's opengl implementation across multiple displays is horrendous. there is no useability in having subset gl enviroment frames overlapping onto independant displays.

who cares if you can have a spanned desktop when the performance is ass on either hardware setup? (broken link to that image, by the way) leave your windowed gl on a single display, and the performance is noticably quicker.

nvidia claims to have dual display acceleration, but an 'evenly distributed slowdown' is a much more apt description.

matty429
01-03-2004, 09:04 AM
Works for me...sorry it doesn't work for you ...What card are you using?

imashination
01-03-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by CgFX
Yes, as I mentioned on the sister thread to this he is likely being punted to software OpenGL rendering path whch would perform fine on a modern system with such a simple example model.

Matty: I don't use Maya, and as I've already said, the fact that Maya doesn't properly support dual screens on Radeons says more about Maya than it does about the Radeons

CGFX: It wasn't dropping down to any other display modes other than that which I set. That screen grab was made with Hardware openGL and T&L lighting. Cinema 4D won't drop down automatically, it will crash ;-)

Now I suggest you guys go bug Alias about fixing their software rather than ragging on ATI who's hardware and drivers are far improved over the shite they offered a few years ago.

matty429
01-03-2004, 06:35 PM
How is it mayas problem...when it works on Nvidia cards...

Nevermind..I guess you're the only guy in the world with a special "no hardware limited 3D resolutin" ATI card...

imashination
01-03-2004, 07:04 PM
Let me get this straight, the Maya / Nvidia fanboy is claiming I have a magical one of a kind Radeon and that even though I've proven the Radeon has good dual screen support, if it doesn't work in Maya, it can't possibly be Alias' fault.

By your logic, I don't speak Spanish, therefore I should blame the spanish for not making their language compatible with me.

matty429
01-03-2004, 07:23 PM
Fanboy?

I'm sorry if you like to use something else...is that my fault...?

Can you stretch your taskbar across both monitors...so that the clock is all the way at the other side?...

Why don't you Quit your ranting and read Something

2048x2048 (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1156484,00.asp)

imashination
01-03-2004, 08:03 PM
I don't know about stretching the taskbar, I'll leave that for someone else to answer This doesn't really affect how 3D software works with it though.

Clearly the link you provided is wrong or outdated, I have physically made a 3D window larger than the size they state so it can no longer be true.

I have the choice of believing my own eyes on my own hardware, or some guy on some website I've never seen before. My eyes are more reliable.

matty429
01-03-2004, 09:13 PM
I'd choose the website...over you....

stephen2002
01-03-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by imashination
Clearly the link you provided is wrong or outdated, I have physically made a 3D window larger than the size they state so it can no longer be true.

Either that or the FireGL drivers are refusing to drop into software emulation where the Radeon drivers don't care. Cinema4D might still report that the system is in "hardware" mode because it is still talking directly to the graphics drivers, which are in turn doing software emulation.

If you end up with pure software you will see "Microsoft" as the provider of your OpenGL version.


One thing to stop this arguing is to create a high-poly scene, it dosn't really matter what, a particle system of heavily sub-divided cubes with a texture would do. Run the animation in with a window that will just fit into the max res of 2048x2048. Run it again with a window just a little bit bigger than the max res of 2048x2048. Compair the numbers. If there is a big difference than you have dropped to software. If not, then you have a magical card ;)

imashination
01-03-2004, 11:39 PM
.

3Dfx_Sage
01-04-2004, 12:58 AM
and *I* can't get 3d apps to do that on nVidia hardware. I guess I happen to have the magic nVidia cardS that can't.

likely it's actually an error in the link between my keyboard and my chair, but I have spent hours trying to make damned nView do anything right and can't seem to get anything to work right at least 99 percent of the time.

matty429
01-04-2004, 01:11 AM
I might be able to shed light if you want....

3Dfx_Sage
01-04-2004, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by matty429
I might be able to shed light if you want.... yeah, that would certainly be nice...

matty429
01-04-2004, 01:16 AM
What doesn't work?

3Dfx_Sage
01-04-2004, 01:39 AM
ok- problem one. I can't span Maya over two monitors. and when I have it on the second one the rightclickandhold menue still comes up on the first monitor.

matty429
01-04-2004, 03:56 AM
What card and drivers?

Are the resolutions the same on the monitors?

3Dfx_Sage
01-04-2004, 03:59 AM
GeForceFX 5800
53.03
both are 1280*1024*32 @ 60Hz

matty429
01-04-2004, 04:02 AM
does this window look like this Image (ftp://63.196.58.222/nvidia.jpg)

3Dfx_Sage
01-04-2004, 04:08 AM
no, it doesn't. It did once but when I restarted it was gone. I tried for hours to get it back but no dice.

matty429
01-04-2004, 04:15 AM
Try this (ftp://63.196.58.222/nvidia2.jpg)


and this (ftp://63.196.58.222/nvidia3.jpg)


dont use microsoft's settings to enable the monitor

3Dfx_Sage
01-04-2004, 04:58 AM
ahhhhh that second one helped. I ran the wizard over and over but never noticed those options, I guess because I never use nVidia's driver options anyhow- just use RivaTuner instead.

Very nice.... too bad it feels too wierd :P

matty429
01-04-2004, 05:08 AM
If you use it you'll get used to it...and never go back...

oxyg3n
01-05-2004, 08:52 AM
What do you guys think of the deforcefx5900 ultra?

Is it good to work with 3d and multiple monitors?

matty429
01-05-2004, 09:33 AM
Sure..I'll bet any gforce ...4 and up will support 2 monitors welll....the more memory the better...1 bonus of the quadros is the dual dvi ports...I haven't seen many(if any) geforce or radeons with 2 dvi ports

3Dfx_Sage
01-05-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Sure..I'll bet any gforce ...4 and up will support 2 monitors welll....the more memory the better...1 bonus of the quadros is the dual dvi ports...I haven't seen many(if any) geforce or radeons with 2 dvi ports make the GeForce4 Ti, the MX's often don't do dual monitors. they are utter crap... but at least they are better than the FX 5200's :P

As for Radeons with dual DVI- won't happen, ATi want's it that way. GeForces I think I have seen a few, but can't remember if they were prerelease cards or not. I know I did get to play with a prerelease Radeon 9800XT with dual DVI, but it ended up getting cancelled.

nvvm
01-06-2004, 07:30 AM
FYI that link was from july 3 2002, lots of things could have changed.

3Dfx_Sage
01-06-2004, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by nvvm
FYI that link was from july 3 2002, lots of things could have changed.
::confused:: what link???

nvvm
01-06-2004, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by matty429
Fanboy?

I'm sorry if you like to use something else...is that my fault...?

Can you stretch your taskbar across both monitors...so that the clock is all the way at the other side?...

Why don't you Quit your ranting and read Something

2048x2048 (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1156484,00.asp) this one

matty429
01-06-2004, 08:42 AM
OK...if its changed...then how com I've had the same problem with every Radeon I've had, 7500 to 9500 pro...

Why not do a search on this site for dual monitors....and see how mutch ATI turns up...


Here I'll do it for you



Dual Monitors (http://www.cgtalk.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=917080&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

nvvm
01-06-2004, 07:42 PM
Ok What exactly is the point your trying to make ? That ATI can't do what ? I have Access to maya and a R9500 pro and can test it and give this thread a rest as I skipped & skimmed over a lot of your bickering posts.

matty429
01-06-2004, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Ati cannot do this


Image (ftp://63.196.58.222/screen.jpg)


Let's see you do that ...on your 9500...hotshot....

3Dfx_Sage
01-06-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by matty429
Let's see you do that ...on your 9500...hotshot.... well, as nice as that is, there are a lot of little problems. like unmovable dialog boxes comming up right in the middle where you can't read them. I tried it for a few days and got use to it, but I found that it slowed me down a lot.

CgFX
01-07-2004, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
well, as nice as that is, there are a lot of little problems. like unmovable dialog boxes comming up right in the middle where you can't read them. I tried it for a few days and got use to it, but I found that it slowed me down a lot.
nView supports dialog repositioning with a number of different options (same display, app display, under coursor, etc.). You should probably download and go through the tutorial they have on the nVidia website.

It may slow you down at first but I think you will find that you adjust and you learn to adjust it to the put that you end up better than where you started.

3Dfx_Sage
01-07-2004, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by CgFX
nView supports dialog repositioning with a number of different options (same display, app display, under coursor, etc.). yes, but some dialog boxes refuse to be moved, and these options dont work for them. As for using a spanned view- I usually have the need to view two windows at once, just having two independant monitors is better for me because then I can just have them both maximised and not worry about shifting things around. One thing that I really do like about nVidia drivers is that I can set it up so that my second monitor is a zoomed in version of the area around my curson on the first- extremely useful.

CgFX
01-07-2004, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
One thing that I really do like about nVidia drivers is that I can set it up so that my second monitor is a zoomed in version of the area around my curson on the first- extremely useful.
Yes, this is great for photoshop work so you can stay in full image mode while being zoomed on one of the other displays.

3Dfx_Sage
01-07-2004, 08:28 AM
yeah, only there is a small but rather disappointing problem with it... try watching sreatming video that the force you to use a small screen, but use the maginfy to make it bigger... it's nice, but slows the system to a crawl and end up getting no only horrible framerate, but everything you do slows down massively. know of anything that will speed it up?

imashination
01-07-2004, 10:28 AM
This is because the original video is using an overlay to show the video. Im afraid the simple answer is that nothing will speed this up.

3Dfx_Sage
01-07-2004, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by imashination
This is because the original video is using an overlay to show the video. Im afraid the simple answer is that nothing will speed this up. actually, not it's not using an overlay. It's a cheap webbased java applet with about a max of 3fps normally. But it's not just when watching video, but it seems to be that everything slows to a crawl after a while.

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