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View Full Version : Sega Animanium Trial


Marcos_AAPJ
12-01-2003, 11:55 PM
Go and Download

https://secure.usaindexweb.com/animanium/php/download.php

:thumbsup:

JB
12-01-2003, 11:59 PM
I thought that's what Wolverine's claws were made of. :shrug:

erilaz
12-02-2003, 12:04 AM
Got it, but I can't seem to connect to download the sample files.
:hmm:

Boooh.... I like the timeline though.

RobertoOrtiz
12-02-2003, 12:07 AM
Moved to news!

R

Chewey
12-02-2003, 12:18 AM
That's pretty bogus. It takes your info and gives you no download.

It does say thank you for downloading after taking your email and name info.

I'd add the thumbs down emoticon but now it's not available either.


:rolleyes:

erilaz
12-02-2003, 12:21 AM
I got the program no problem, but you have to connect to their site to open the samples. Firewall nightmare.:surprised

NUKE-CG
12-02-2003, 01:00 AM
Both the link above, and the one they e-mail me, do not download, I disabled firewalls, reset etc..

Sega, you annoy me greatly.

ambient-whisper
12-02-2003, 01:27 AM
just downloaded it. and started fiddling with it. its neat :) feels like a nendo version of mirais animation stuff.

erilaz
12-02-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by ambient-whisper
just downloaded it. and started fiddling with it. its neat :) feels like a nendo version of mirais animation stuff.

Awwww.... I wanna play!:cry:

TRi-14
12-02-2003, 03:14 AM
Iíve been playing with it for about half an hour now, and I am really enjoying it. Itís very different. I think I would have to have a lot more practice in it to do some quality work but without some export to Maya or a graph editor, I donít think quality animation is too possible :P . Iím curious to see what all you animators think about it.

EDIT: well, its gone down hill for me. The lack of elbow and knee control (pole vector like control) is annoying, and as Sheep stated, things you expect to stick just are not sticking.

Cheers and keep on animating!


-chris

SheepFactory
12-02-2003, 03:36 AM
now excuse me....

the locked parts were not supposed to move right? , thats the whole point of animanium right?

so why is my model moving all over even though I locked the joints?

posing in this software is not intuitive at all

Call me skeptic but I really dont see anyone buying this.

MosaFacku
12-02-2003, 03:39 AM
for something that looks like its claiming to be easy to just pick up and go, this is not cool.

very counter-intuitive. and i was looking forward to playing with this.

no good. :banghead:

wedge
12-02-2003, 04:13 AM
so sega had nothing to do with this?

jschleifer
12-02-2003, 06:01 AM
Just tried this myself as well.. it's got some neat ideas, but I couldn't for the life of me get the poses I wanted w/out lots of "oops.. wait.. okay, gotta grab that.." and "ooo.. okay.. umm.. how do I turn that?"

bummer.

bentllama
12-02-2003, 07:27 AM
Yep. hmmmm.



A personal review of AnimaniumÖ





aside from the initial jarring inability to get poses you like without fighting the IK and constant "pinning" of joints, I did have some other opinions about the software...both positive and negative...



- - - the vertical dope sheet brings back memories of 2D animation exposure sheets, however having worked with 3D predominantly for years and years now I am used to a horizontal layout of my keyframe data. I think it was designed to be vertical for a Japanese audience, but it really needs to have the option to be changed to horizontal for an L-to-R reading audience



- - - the dope sheet and timeline are confusing at the start...which timeline did what?



- - - if Animanium is meant to be a program outside of your major "do all" 3D apps, then it needs to be able to mimic camera movement of your favorite app, much like Wings 3D does



- - - ďtranslation only controlsĒ offers for fast "banging" out of keys, but the poses are hard to get...often fighting with the rig to get them...



- - - ghosting of keyframes was nice and thorough



- - - while talking about ghosts, give us an option to show arcs of motion as well...if this app is supposed to feel more natural like 2D and drawing, then arcs would be very handy



- - - the "rolling of frames" feature was cool. Being able to scrub with the mouse wheel was neat.



- - - it needs elbow and knee twists/pole vector control that do not act on the foot or hand rotation.



- - - nice "flip pose" feature



- - - marquee selection of multiple items is VERY needed



- - - having a manipulator/gizmo that allows you to isolate axis movement is VERY needed



- - - need to be able to change interpolation type on a keyframe basis, not only on a global level



- - - needs a "layer" function like that in CS so you can make subtle changes without demolishing the whole animation



- - - ONLY ONE UNDO!!!!!!!!!!! Aaaarrrggghhhhh





Some great ideas in AnimaniumÖ





I am looking forward to the next rev to see what they fix and iron out...all in all I had fun working with it and it has ALOT of potential.



gimme something like this in Maya [and customizable like Maya itself] and I would be ecstatic!!!

Lunatique
12-02-2003, 09:35 AM
I just tried it this afternoon.

First of all, I'm not an animator. I did a little bit of claymation and 2D animation tests back in High School, and that was 16 years ago. However, I've wanted to get into 3D animation for a while now. So, now that Animanium trial version surfaced, I just had to try it out.

So, anyway, here's about 4 hours of non-stop animating--from a complete newbie to animation--with no prior experience or training. I have to say, Animanium was very easy and intuitive to use for me--but then again, I have nothing to compare it to, since it's the only 3D animation app I've ever tried.

Avi version: 1.60 MB (http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/3d/animation/Animanium-test-1.avi)

Divx version: 2.28 MB (http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/3d/animation/Animanium-test-2.avi)

ambient-whisper
12-02-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Lunatique
I just tried it this afternoon.

First of all, I'm not an animator. I did a little bit of claymation and 2D animation tests back in High School, and that was 16 years ago. However, I've wanted to get into 3D animation for a while now. So, now that Animanium trial version surfaced, I just had to try it out.

So, anyway, here's about 4 hours of non-stop animating--from a complete newbie to animation--with no prior experience or training. I have to say, Animanium was very easy and intuitive to use for me--but then again, I have nothing to compare it to, since it's the only 3D animation app I've ever tried.

Avi version: 1.60 MB (http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/3d/animation/Animanium-test-1.avi)

Divx version: 2.28 MB (http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/3d/animation/Animanium-test-2.avi)

heheh. sucky animators unite!!
heres my sucky animation. :D

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images_dump/neato/1.avi
( you might have to play it manually after it loads. otherwise as it streams its extremely choppy. ( heh not like its not choppy/crappy when it does load ;) haha )

J.Svard
12-02-2003, 11:18 AM
What do you use to grab those .avi files? :)
Nice animations btw...

t-toe
12-02-2003, 01:20 PM
uhh, is this a Sega program? if not, how is this not a copywrite violation?

thedaemon
12-02-2003, 01:55 PM
funny animations guys. Well, as I was all hyped about Animanium, seeing as how I love the way pinning works. I was rather dissapointed in this app. I would probably buy it, if it was in the $250-500 range. But not worth the $1500 they are asking. It's just not as complete as say, Motionbuilder. Sure you can create anytype of rig for it to work with, but setting up your rig's seems to be a pain too. Guess this is "vaporware" that should have been freeware.....

My 2 cents :thumbsup:

atzfratz
12-02-2003, 03:53 PM
its really fun to play with but i really want a manipulator, a graph editor and a hell lot more of undos.

Gwot
12-02-2003, 04:18 PM
I really like this app over all. It almost forces you to get back to basics and just animate. It's all about the poses. The UI is very strongly oriented around this. I love the custom anchor/lock tabs you can make in the workspace window, and the simplicity/ease of the dopetrack in general.

I think I could do without fcurves in this app simply because the ghosting works so well. This is great for quickly eyeballing your poses and inbetweens. Best implementation I've seen yet.

I also agree that it's lacking in several areas. A layer system should be standard with any animation app these days. 1 undo is silly. Please fix these two areas immediately. The rigs themselves seem somewhat rigid or sluggish to manipulate. Easy enough to work around, but it kindof nags at you.

I'm still unsure just how great this app can be though. It's fine for just getting in and animating the content provided for the demo, but I want to see how it works with MY STUFF. There's no way I'd fork over 1500 bucks without being able to test this first.

I want to see how it deals with fingers and toes and facial rigging. Why are there no plugins for setup in the major 3d apps included with the demo? Haven't messed with the motion blending stuff yet either, but this is a must have.

The price tag is too high for what is there. Look at messiah:animate, and Motion Builder. These apps are both cheaper and have far more features in them, including their demos. I'd be hard pressed to justify more than 500 for this.

shrimp_chip
12-02-2003, 05:02 PM
Great product. Great UI. I don't know how they'll succeed in the marketplace.

Given that it's (a) easy to learn, and (b) too flakey/simple for production work, it looks like this product is being aimed at the wrong market.

At $1500 they will only sell to professionals, but as others have mentioned, professionals don't need the simple UI, and do need finer control.

If it were my product, I would knock the price down to $199, build in tight integration for Poser and game mods, and try to sell one to every student / hobbiest / web designer / game mod maker in the world.

Perhaps they could segment the market -- offering both a $199 version and a higher-end $1500 version. (The problem here is that there aren't very many features in the product. Which ones do you take out for the low end? And it may be hard to add features to make the high end product more valuable.)

I might be wrong about this -- after all, my strategy is similar to izware's Nendo/Mirai's strategy, and we all know how successfull that turned out to be.

Another possibility is to sell the product to another company with a complementary product. (e.g. one of the existing 3D packages.)

They are also up against the open source time bomb -- I bet some open source hacker create a freeware clone of this within a couple of years. (Like what happened with Nendo / Wings3d).

craiggulow
12-02-2003, 05:06 PM
Here's a thought: FBX export.

Gwot
12-02-2003, 05:14 PM
Perhaps they could segment the market -- offering both a $199 version and a higher-end $1500 version.

Agreed. In it's current state, this software would be great for beginners and hobbyists - for which 1500 is far too much. A pro version would need more to justify the cost. I can't say I'd use this at our studio as it is.

ambient-whisper
12-02-2003, 10:32 PM
hopefully we will see things like atleast 1 more layer to work with. ( so we can easily fix up some animation/ weigh it in, and bake it onto our main animation channel. ( no need to make a mess of things ) )

also i dont particularly think theres a need for manipulators but extending the FK controls to allow for easier twisting of joints would be nice. since the current FK system is set to screen relative rotations. also it would be nice to see an IK scale that is found in mirai. where i can pick a joint/s, and scale the distance to a location. and the body would follow through. etc. etc.

but for a version 1 release i think they managed to meet their goals. an easy to use animation app. ( except the extremely stiff bones, could be lowered somewhat )

it would be nice if there were cheaper versions available for personal use like with motion builder.

other than that.:) its a fun toy. :D

Prozac Mouse
12-02-2003, 11:20 PM
so would you guys say this is better or worse than motion builder 5? :shrug:

Gwot
12-02-2003, 11:38 PM
Mmm, IK scaling. I forgot how cool that is.

DaveW
12-02-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by t-toe
uhh, is this a Sega program? if not, how is this not a copywrite violation?

It was developed by Sega. If there was any copyright or trademark violation, Sega would have taken care of it a long time ago.

muckywetnoodle
12-03-2003, 02:23 AM
I was really curious to try this to see how it compared to Mirai's system. I'm far from an animation expert but anyhow...

I couldn't figure out how you accomplish twisting (say for arms and legs) at all. It seems followthrough and offset is accomplished by saving mocap type clips and then blending them in for specific body parts but since you can't save in the demo I don't know for sure. Pinning usually doesn't pin very well either. Glued type pins don't snap back to position like Mirai's if you over extend. I do like how you just right-click to lock and pin things. There doesn't seem to be any explanation of how you use this for your own characters either. Fun to mess around with but it seems very over-priced.

gsuttor
12-03-2003, 04:13 AM
:rolleyes: I think anyone who uses the current methodology of edit spheres and XYZ rotations/translations is going to find this software EXTREMLY frustrating. :banghead:

It only rotates joints on the camera viewplane.. wtf is with that?
To turn the head without the rest of the body moving you have to turn off IK then rotate the view to be looking straight down so you can rotate around the camera plane. :banghead:

You spend more time working out which objects to lock down(which they donít REALLY lock) instead of concentrating on moving the joints and creating poses.
I was EXTREMLY hard to pose compared to your standard control object rig.

This one gets the thumbs down from me unless maybe they added a standard edit sphere.

ambient-whisper
12-03-2003, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by gsuttor
:rolleyes: I think anyone who uses the current methodology of edit spheres and XYZ rotations/translations is going to find this software EXTREMLY frustrating. :banghead:

It only rotates joints on the camera viewplane.. wtf is with that?
To turn the head without the rest of the body moving you have to turn off IK then rotate the view to be looking straight down so you can rotate around the camera plane. :banghead:

You spend more time working out which objects to lock down(which they donít REALLY lock) instead of concentrating on moving the joints and creating poses.
I was EXTREMLY hard to pose compared to your standard control object rig.

This one gets the thumbs down from me unless maybe they added a standard edit sphere.

i would suggest spending a bit more time with it. you can save selection sets for pins. so you dont have to spend the entire time pinning/unpinning.
also theres a number of options in the shift+right click menu that might help. but yeah, twist is very needed.

atzfratz
12-03-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by muckywetnoodle
I was really curious to try this to see how it compared to Mirai's system. I'm far from an animation expert but anyhow...

I couldn't figure out how you accomplish twisting (say for arms and legs) at all. It seems followthrough and offset is accomplished by saving mocap type clips and then blending them in for specific body parts but since you can't save in the demo I don't know for sure. Pinning usually doesn't pin very well either. Glued type pins don't snap back to position like Mirai's if you over extend. I do like how you just right-click to lock and pin things. There doesn't seem to be any explanation of how you use this for your own characters either. Fun to mess around with but it seems very over-priced.

thats why i want a manipulator. If you wanna turn the torso to the side you have to either look from below or above, but then its nearly impossible to select the spine. The program may be intresting for game companies but i dont see it in any other production pipe. What if my character interacts with other geometry. I mean can i animate without bones? 1500$ is way too much, i dont see them selling much copies. I think you dont have enaough control to fine tune you animations.But i would love to have such ik in maya, maybe with the right controls you get more out of it.

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