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Mdocka1
08-07-2012, 11:28 PM
Hellow everyone,

I am looking at schools in Sydney Australia that teach 3D Animation and VFX. I am looking at Design Centre Enmore (DCE) - Bachelor of 3d Animation for next year.

Does anyone know anything about the school DCE?

Can anyone tell me the best place to learn 3d Animation and VFX in Sydney?

Or can anyone recommend any online courses or degrees that would be more beneficial?

Thank you

MD

mr Bob
08-07-2012, 11:37 PM
I hate to say this as an expat but there's nothing of note course wise in Australia, that would not be a total waste of money. The reality is you stand little or no chance of gaining employment doing any course in Aus. If you are really set on this industry and want to do a course go to Bournemouth in the UK its ranked as one of the best and if your in the top 10% of your class there's a very good chance you would get hired by one of the bigger firms in London.

Bob

Mdocka1
08-08-2012, 01:12 AM
Hey mate,

Thanks for prompt reply. I have heard this before. This is very unfortunate about Sydney, or Australia for that matter. I have a dual citizenship for the Uk so this could be possible to. How ever I need to be sure before I run this Idea past the mrs. Lol.

If any one can elaborate on Australian course and offer there advice and views, maybe even success stories that would be greatly appreciated.

So are these course at Bournemouth, degrees? I am looking on there site but it's a bit vague.

Also I think there would be a lot of potential Aussie 3d artist out there that could benefit from this post if people would be kind enough to share their experiences in the Australian industry. Or even stories from Australians who have studied over seas. Or studied in Australia to then find work overseas.

Thanks

MD

f3rry
08-08-2012, 01:56 AM
I was at enmore and at that time the teacher was a complete dick. Talk to some of the students first, but at the end of the day its your effort that really counts, not the teacher.

You could really learn from some real artists and rock stars in UK or US, if you pick the right school, of course. Never expect that in OZ. and dont be surprise if you ended up teaching the teachers how to do some stuff in 3D or 2D.

Flame me, but most 3D Teachers in OZ are losers who could not get a real job doing the cool stuff

Mdocka1
08-08-2012, 02:51 AM
Thanks for your post, yeah I am studying in Wollongong and I am disapointed with teachers effort. It feels like they run the classes off the cuff. No planning what so ever. And in some cases it feels like you teach the teacher. My teachers all seem to be nice people however I feel I learn more In my own time than in the classroom.

Would anyone recommend doing a visual arts degree in Australia to build a solid foundation, and just learn 3d in my own time.

Thoughts??

I am financially restricted to overseas schools (even though I have an Australian/UK dual passport citizenship).

And I'm sure a lot of Australians are in the same boat.

I am fighting for a solution or to find the best avenue to pursue in my current situation. So I am greatful for you feedback :-)

Thanks

MD

ndeboar
08-08-2012, 02:53 AM
I've seen some pretty good stuff come out of AFTRS.

http://www.aftrs.edu.au/

btw: Im from Australia, and I'm self tought. That said, I would probably look to one of the O/s schools as well, there really isnt that much here. Gnomon(USA) and Escape (Uk) also look like good options.

Also check out the CG Workshops here, they are really good (i am a little bias though).

mr Bob
08-08-2012, 03:19 AM
Hi,
No problem. The harsh reality is Australia does not have a vfx industry of note. The couple of firms that do exist live hand to mouth by out sourcing work from the US and now that's all going to Vancouver slowly but surely.
So if you stayed in Aus and studied the chances are even if you were good there would be nothing to go to. Hence this why I say go to Bournemouth in the UK its a top ranked degree and if your any good you will get picked up by one of the large UK vfx houses. That will give you the best start to your career as you would be working with the top talent and get lots of choice to go and work on different grade A shows.
Its a big move I know but if you want to work in the industry and give yourself a chance you just will have to do it. Its sad to say if you stay in Aus you will end up scratching around for work and not really getting anywhere.

Bob

Mdocka1
08-08-2012, 05:34 AM
@ Rob

That is a harsh reality, I would pick up and move tomorrow if I could. It sounds like if I want any chance I must look overseas.

Did you study at Bournemouth Rob?

@ ndeboar

Thank you for your reply I have had a look at those sites they look good but are a bit pricey. The biggest hurdle would be finance. In Australia I can get away with a HECS debt. I think A stint in the mines could help me accumulate the funds I need.

Def have a lot to think about.

Please any Australian success stories a welcome in this thread ;-)

Thanks

MD

Mdocka1
08-08-2012, 07:17 AM
@ ndeboar

also I am doing Robert Chang's Becoming a better artist here at CG Society. And it is definitely money well spent. Later down the track I will look at other courses.

MD

agk3d
08-08-2012, 07:41 AM
Yes it's a very competitive field at the moment in Sydney. I wouldn't say Australia's completely out of the market though, there's a lot more opportunities happening in Melbourne then there are in Sydney.

My background, I graduated from Qantm Sydney College in 2010 I was the lowest performing student of the class. Came out and got into a completely different career for about a year, realized how much life had sucked so I self-taught myself animation. I wanted to become an animator, got small gigs here and there but nothing too solid. I also had to walk away from my full-time gig to go for freelancing position. (Very risky if you have a mortgage). I applied for a gig at Gameloft as animator, never stopped looking back.

agk3d
08-08-2012, 08:07 AM
Yes it's a very competitive field at the moment in Sydney. I wouldn't say Australia's completely out of the market though, there's a lot more opportunities happening in Melbourne then there are in Sydney.

My background, I graduated from Qantm Sydney College in 2010 I was the lowest performing student of the class. Came out and got into a completely different career for about a year, realized how much life had sucked so I self-taught myself animation. I wanted to become an animator, got small gigs here and there but nothing too solid. I also had to walk away from my full-time gig to go for freelancing position. (Very risky if you have a mortgage). I applied for a gig at Gameloft as animator, never stopped looking back.

Mdocka1
08-08-2012, 08:24 AM
That is interesting.

It sounds like you have had many ups and downs. It is good to hear you are still fighting the good fight though and that you have chosen a life of uncertainty over selling yourself out and settling for second best.

Best of luck to you man.

Did you get the job at Gameloft?

I have given up to much to turn back now so I am endeavoring to find out what the best course for me to study would be. sounds like in Australia self taught is the way to go.

I believe never say die and persistence will prevail ;-)

agk3d
08-08-2012, 10:34 AM
Yes, I'm currently working full-time at Gameloft with a certain future. One thing is I couldn't guarantee my future and that of my family moving from one job to the next. The market is very unstable in Sydney, and it's gotten a lot more competitive in recent years due to the closures of big studios.

Character animators are in high demand but not in Sydney, so as a student I was always in constant competition with professional artists who were laid off from company's like team bondi and Dr D studios for jobs that just hit the market.

Well it's not entirely true... I didn't really go through self-taught I had assistance from overseas professional animators. www.animschool.com Studying and talking daily with these guys really gave me a leg up on competition here. Online option, no degree, but your in a field where skill exceeds a piece of paper.

Mdocka1
08-08-2012, 10:55 AM
@ agk3d

That's great, I'm glad things worked out for you.

Yeah I will have a look at that site.

thanks for your posts they have been very helpful and motivating. Me and my partner have both agreed to go and live overseas at one point or another but I want increase my knowledge base and have a solid demo reel before I do.

And you are right about the skill out weighing the piece of paper. The whole peice of paper thing is really just to keep my partner happy. I think she gets some sort of security from it. :-)

Thanks again mate and I will check out that site you recommended.

Cheers

MD

agk3d
08-08-2012, 11:08 AM
One minor detail about working overseas is it's a lot easier if you have a degree in your related field. Other then that good luck with everything (: see you in the industry one day.

mr Bob
08-08-2012, 12:05 PM
That is a harsh reality, I would pick up and move tomorrow if I could. It sounds like if I want any chance I must look overseas.

Did you study at Bournemouth Bob?

Yup its harsh, Im an Aussie myself and just giving it to you straight. I got into this racket before Bournemouth and vfx courses ever existed infact before even training dvds ! . I really would say if the debt / money is an issue do a skilled trade and work on your self learning in your own time as a hobby and if it works out great, if it does not at least then you have something to fall back on. Or even better go and do a general engineering degree or computer science degree. As all that maths is handy for being a TD ! .

b

Mdocka1
08-08-2012, 12:40 PM
Thank you, I appreciate your up front attitude. The CSc or engineer degree could be an option thanks for the advice. I have a lot to think about now.

And if anyone else can shed some more light in the issue that would be great :-)

Thanks

MD

ndeboar
08-09-2012, 05:22 AM
The 'big' Australian studios are:

Animal Logic
Rising Sun Pictures
Illoura
Fuel

I'm currently at Animal Logic, and they have quite a lot on, at 500 now but that will go up a lot over the next few months.

Don't get into this field of work if you don't want to travel for work, or want a steady career.

Mdocka1
08-09-2012, 06:32 AM
@ ndeboar

Thanks for post :-)

I love the idea of change, instability and travel. These 3 elements can only lead to one thing and that is personal growth.

Questions (If you don't mind)

What courses have you done relative to the industry? and what school held the course?

What courses/degree would you recommend completing?

It was recommended that I would be better off getting a technical degree such as Computer Science or engineering under my belt rather than any of the 3d animation and VFX courses going in Australia. Would you agree?

What advice would you give to me or any other aspiring 2d and 3d artists/Td's in regards to getting into the industry?

Thank you again for your post ;-)

MD

ndeboar
08-09-2012, 07:46 AM
What courses have you done relative to the industry? and what school held the course?

I did an Arts Degree majoring in Multi-Media. Waste of time.

What courses/degree would you recommend completing?

Escape/Gnomon, only ones that come to mind.

It was recommended that I would be better off getting a technical degree such as Computer Science or engineering under my belt rather than any of the 3d animation and VFX courses going in Australia. Would you agree?

If you want to be a TD, sure. If you want to be a creative, don't bother.

What advice would you give to me or any other aspiring 2d and 3d artists/Td's in regards to getting into the industry?

Make stuff. Like, now. No excuses. And specialize.

agk3d
08-09-2012, 09:24 AM
http://effectscorner.blogspot.com/2012/06/getting-visual-effects-job.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EffectsCorner+%28Effects+Corner%29#.UCNy56BSQUo

I couldn't find the right post, but this VFX veteran has some very useful information for to wannabe and professional artists. You might find what your looking for here.

Mdocka1
08-09-2012, 02:52 PM
Hey thank you for the reply guys, I read through the article, great read ;-)

@ ndeboar

Thanks for answering my questions. The feedback from this thread has been a greater help than I expect.

So thanks again for your time and advice.

Time to get to work lol

MD

f3rry
08-16-2012, 03:04 AM
To me personally formal education i got (in this field anyway) is an expensive confirmation that I was actually travelling in a perfect path doing it on my own, knowing enough and progressing perfectly fine without the stupid teachers and wasted classes.

It took me all those years and all those money to realize that I did not need them to be where I am today. Sure I learnt about 1 or 2% but still the level they are vs the money they asked is insane. I constantly telling teachers how to do things in Maya and Photoshop. I never planned to spend $xx,xxx (yes, more than 10K real money) to have a moron asking me how I did things. I should get paid to do that

f3rry
08-16-2012, 03:11 AM
As in for advice whatever you choose:

Never ever ever pay the whole fee at the same time. Talk your way to try it for a day, a week or a month before you commit and pay as little installment as you possibly can so you can pull out if you think the whole thing is a joke.

This one I wish I did it when I was studying: Just rock up to the course and try to enter a class (harder) or a lecture in a big room (easier). You will get ejected in some but you will be surprise when you can sneak in and find out the truth. Sometimes they have en evening session with industry professionals or free seminars. This is so easy to get in and a lot to absorb than the classes

They need you much more than you think you need them.

Mdocka1
08-16-2012, 04:11 AM
Hi F3rry,

Thank you for your input. I agree with you there I feel I am teaching my self just fine and a hell of a lot more than the teachers are teaching me.

The decision I am most contemplating about is transferring to a computer science degree majoring in multimedia and game design. Giving me a strong foundation in technical skills as I find there is enough resource out there to satisfy my creative desires. But also gaining this degree will open up a lot of doors for me as well, keeping my options open.

What are your thoughts?

MD

f3rry
08-16-2012, 04:35 AM
In my personal opinion that is an excellent choice. I would do it myself. Having technical skill is really important and the formal education is much more streamlined to produce a good graduate in it's field. I also agree with keeping you options open too. Great thought.

You will do very very well, I am sure.

Mdocka1
08-16-2012, 04:52 AM
yeah thanks F3rry, and thanks for your input and advice once again it is greatly appreciated.

This forum has been very helpful and I hope other Aussie students can gain from this also.

;-)

MD

mr Bob
08-20-2012, 08:29 AM
But also gaining this degree will open up a lot of doors for me as well, keeping my options open.

Seems like you may be making a wise choice

It was recommended that I would be better off getting a technical degree such as Computer Science or engineering under my belt rather than any of the 3d animation and VFX courses going in Australia. Would you agree?

If you want to be a TD, sure. If you want to be a creative, don't bother.

Having a technical degree plus the art side of things is going to put you to the front of the hire line for a junior role .If you want to work at Animal / RSP / Fuel and be the guy who gets kept on and gets career progression you need the technical skills. Art on its own is not good enough.

b

jameschoebroyo
10-20-2012, 12:46 PM
Heya guys,
I'm in a similar boat I guess, but I was wondering. No one mentioned Animation Mentor and was wondering what you all think about that. Sure, no degree, may make it harder to get work overseas, but if you could elaborate a little on that too?
I really hope I'm not hijacking

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