Referencing a rigged skeleton

[Quizboy]

what does that mean anyway? it sounds like a question i have but not sure...i'll watch this thread for the response.

[magilla]

It means either that the mesh is bound to a referenced rig - or that it is bound to a skeleton that is controlled by a referenced rig.

I'm unsure - that's why I'm asking. The JS creature pipeline uses something like this - but I don't have the DVD so I'm only guessing.

--magilla

[dwalden74]

Can anyone give me some hints, or point me at a tutorial for this procedure

It´s quite straight-forward, really. What I do is this:

1) create a simple joint skeleton that can be used to animate/bind the character.
2) bind the character to this skeleton, save scene as "*_binded" or whatever.
3) reference the "*_binded" scene into a new scene; build animation rig here.
4) reference this "*_rig" scene into an animation scene.

What´s nice about this is you can always go back and change geometry on your model at any time, or change the weighting, etc.

There could be variations on this: For example, if your character is rather complex, you might want to create only a lo-rez version (parented geometry), which you can reference into your rig scene and animate with. You´d save out a separate "*_binded" scene using the same skeleton, then when you´re finished animating just transfer the animation to this (for example, via baking out joint rotations).

Hope this helps.

-David

[magilla]

That seems deceptively simple. I didn't know you could reference a referenced file though, how does that treat the names of objects and char sets - or does this become unimportant?
I'm hoping to use the trax clips with this kind of setup, but I've never had much luck with trax and reference objects, which I assumed (rightly or wrongly) it was because of the namechange maya forces on referenced files.
How do I switch the referenced _binded file if its connected to the _rig? Are there any wacky mel scripts out there that help out with this process. I had been saving as .ma files and editing the referenced filename in a text editor.

--magilla

[dwalden74]

I didn't know you could reference a referenced file though, how does that treat the names of objects and char sets - or does this become unimportant?

Yes you can. In fact, often I have 3-4 levels of referencing for a character (skinned, rigged, animation and final lighting scenes). In terms of names, I´m always using string namespaces (ie, "characterSkinned", "characterRigged", etc). All names will have these extra prefixes added, and you may have to accomodate for this via some extra MEL, but usually it´s not a big deal, and most things should still work with these namespaces, including inserting clips.

I've never had much luck with trax and reference objects, which I assumed (rightly or wrongly) it was because of the namechange maya forces on referenced files.

Yeah, I´ve also had some problems in the past, but the problems seem to come and go randomly... I´ve found that the best way to paste clips, for example, onto a referenced character (ie, a character whose name has changed via the addition of one or more namespaces on account of referencing), is with Library->Insert Clip, in the Trax editor menu. In most cases this does the job well. There have been some extreme cases where I have been unable to paste clips correctly like this, and in these cases I´ve resorted to the character map feature. I even wrote 2 scripts to automate character mapping (you can find them on my website), although these do not accomodate character sets with subcharacter sets (bad me). I might update those sometime, but lately I haven´t been working too much with clips so it hasn´t been a problem.

How do I switch the referenced _binded file if its connected to the _rig?

In most cases your rigged character is going to have nodes parented into the binding skeleton hierarchy. In this case, the only way to switch the referenced binded file will be though editing the *.ma file. However, you can also simply replace the binded file with a new file with the same name, and this will obviously update correctly (given your node structure hasn´t changed too extremely). Also, if Maya doesn´t find your referenced file upon loading, it will ask you to specifiy a location where to find this file. Here you can also specify a different file if you need.

Let me know if this helps or if you have other questions.

:beer:
David

[magilla]

One thing that I found helped out with the clips was to open the trax editor, select the character set then file>import clip to character from the trax editor menu when importing the clips into the scene - if I just imported the clips into the visor and applied them they didn't work correctly.

thanks for the info - very helpful, I'm currently building some player hands for an fps using this method so I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along.

--magilla

[davidsloss]

Hi David,

I just found this thread and am considering using the technique you outlined on a new project, but I am a little confused about something: Where would you put your head blendshapes and the blendshape node? You would have to put them into the *_binded file no? Because I thought it was difficult to add new blend shapes to a blendShape node after the geometry has been bound.

Also, I assume influence objects would be built and applied in the *_rigged file(?)

Thanks for your help. (And for making all those great mel scripts available too.)

David

PS: I love the new animation on your home page btw! Anything with the word 'nipples' is right up my alley.

[dwalden74]

Where would you put your head blendshapes and the blendshape node? You would have to put them into the *_binded file no? Because I thought it was difficult to add new blend shapes to a blendShape node after the geometry has been bound.

Everything that deforms the skin I put into the skinned file. You can easily add shapes to a blendShape node using the Create BlendShape->Add feature, then specifying the node to which you want to add it to. This is a really useful feature. Influence objects are also going into the skinned file. The rigged scene is just adding animation controls onto the skeleton.

The rigged scene is the "easiest" one to do, and the one that gets finished first usually...actually, it´s easy just because I can automate most of it with my rigging scripts. That way I can start animating ASAP, then go back to refine the skinned character as I see fit (add blendshapes, inf objs, whatever).

:beer:
David

[macaroniKazoo]

just to agree with davidsloss, nice work on nipple for men david! very nicely animated indeed. just before he says "nipples for men"... golden dude. well done.

[dwalden74]

Hey, that´s really nice to hear. Thank you. I wish I could have done better on the character´s weight, though (aargh)....I should have exaggerated more.... oh well, next time I guess.... :)

:beer:

[davidsloss]

Thanks David, I appreciate the tips--I think I shall be brave and give a try.

David

Btw: macaroniKazoo- To answer your question in the other post: My quote/signature comes from an old sketch comedy series that used to be on in the UK. I can't remember the name of the show now, but one repeating sketch had a character who would say inappropriate and irrelevant things. When everybody in the room looked down at their feet in embarassment for him, the character would say-"right, I'll get my coat then", and leave.

Well I thought it funny.

[nottoshabi]

Originally posted by dwalden74
In fact, often I have 3-4 levels of referencing for a character

David


How long does it take to open that file?

Is it possible to have multiple referenced characters in the same scene?

Can animation be transferred in other ways besides Trax Editor? Via animExport, Dope Sheet, or Copy and Paste?



:bounce:

[macaroniKazoo]

>>How long does it take to open that file?

speaking from my experience, loading references depends on how big the referenced file is. references don't really slow down loading at all. unless of course, the scenes that you're referencing take a long time to load by themselves... :)

>>Is it possible to have multiple referenced characters

yeah, it is. i've had as many as 9 referenced rigs in a scene, without problem.

>>Can animation be transferred in other ways besides Trax

as long as the files you reference don't have anim curves already attached to the objects (ie the rigs have no animation on them) then its exactly like working with a character actually in the scene, because the animation data is actually part of the scene, not the reference.

so yeah, you can do pretty much whatever you want.

[nottoshabi]

>yeah, it is. i've had as many as 9 referenced rigs in a scene, without problem.


How did you get them in the scene?

[dwalden74]

How did you get them in the scene?

As far as I know, there is no limit to the amount of referenced files you can have in a scene (or the amount of times you can reference any single file). If your computer could handle it you could in theory reference 1000´s of characters into a scene (or 1 character 1000´s of times).

[nottoshabi]

dwalden74 > thanks for the reply. But how do you get in the scene? Cause I know if you import then it breaks all the referencing conections. I dont know if this is fixed in 5 but for 4.5 it breaks all the conections.

[mental]

File > Create Reference > Select Scene That You Want To Act As Your Reference :shrug:

[dwalden74]

File > Create Reference > Select Scene That You Want To Act As Your Reference

Ah, so *that´s* what he was asking.... ;)

[nottoshabi]

Yes thats what I wanted to know. Thanks guys :beer:




:bounce:

[thematt]

just in case you haven't seen it yet..a good tut about referencing.

http://www.alias.com/eng/community/behind_screenz/light_the_torch/tutorial.jhtml


cheers

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