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Roach
11-26-2003, 05:08 PM
Four Tech Execs Agree That Apple Will Soon Be Dead



http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/11/24.14.shtml


Roach

NanoGator
11-26-2003, 06:16 PM
Apple has their own core audience that's keeping them alive. It's difficult to imagine that they'll suddenly jump ship.

fig
11-26-2003, 06:51 PM
as long as there are design firms there will always be macs :)

chris

RobertoOrtiz
11-26-2003, 07:05 PM
Doubt it. And I am not a Mac nut, but I have seen religious cults with a lot less fanaticism.

To be honest they do make good equipment, and
they do have a HARDCORE user base.

I don’t see them going away anytime soon.

-R

chadtheartist
11-26-2003, 07:36 PM
What I find funny is they predict that IBM will survive... based on IBM's production of x86 processors I guess... oh... wait a minute... IBM doesn't make x86 processors... How will IBM survive if they predict that everyone needs to go with standard hardware, when IBM is known for it's Power 4 and now Power 5 PPC processors?

Sometimes I don't understand people. Apple has billions in the bank, and if came down to the company even coming remotely close to folding, I'm sure Apple would "Switch" to the "Standards" of that time period. But as it is right now, I don't think Apple will EOL anytime soon. Especially with the iPod, and the iTunes Music service. But I guess these guys really know what they are talking about... LOL

halo
11-26-2003, 08:21 PM
Four Tech Execs talk out of their arse or Three Software Execs and one Microsoft Exec talk about a computer manufacturer...

beaker
11-26-2003, 08:41 PM
People have been predicting Apple's death for 15 years. I don't see why they would stop now. Sgi and Sun are closer to death than Apple and I don't see them dissapearing anytime soon.

halo
11-26-2003, 09:49 PM
yeh, i would have thought that would be the case first..but it isnt so fashionable to put them down...

Andrew W
11-27-2003, 11:59 AM
There's a very interesting interview with Bill Joy (formerly of Sun) and he raves about Mac OS X. Also, there's a feature on Java (another Sun product) and it's future. Food for thought here:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.12/billjoy.html

t-toe
11-27-2003, 05:00 PM
yeah, people love to predict the death of Apple... I don't know why really. I've been a longtime PC user, but I finally decided to make the switch to Mac... they're just too beautiful to pass up.

Emmortal1
11-27-2003, 05:11 PM
I'm predicting the death of a turkey, it's in my oven right now.

Emmortal

DigiLusionist
11-27-2003, 05:43 PM
Wha-? You mean they're still around?

Chewey
11-27-2003, 08:08 PM
I don't believe it. As long as there are still old hippies around the Mac is safe. (and rare.) :scream:

Aneks
11-28-2003, 12:05 AM
Do the names Shake, Pro Tools, Logic, AVID and Final Cut PRO ring a bell with any of those panel experts. For those of us in the post production industry, like it or not, Apple is pretty much the main machine we sit in front of all day. Yeah I know a lot of 3d people are barking up at this point... but a STABLE Maya port can't be too far away either !!

People keep telling me that SGI is dead too..... usually when I'm compositing their shots on *flame ...... go figure.

NUKE-CG
11-28-2003, 02:06 AM
Four Tech Execs Agree That Apple Will Soon Be Dead.

could turn into..

Apple Agree That Four Tech Execs Will Soon Be Dead.
Yeah.... don't mess with Apple g4ngs7ers!, they brake thumbs too.


Seriously though, Apple are in the best position they have ever been in, they have a long life infront of them.

TerrestrialSea
11-28-2003, 03:41 AM
Change is the key word here! As long as Apple continues to indulge consumers with products that appeal to current trends and fashions they will continue to make money. Further more, with the added strength of Pixar and IBM, Apple will continue to push forward and help the Tech community improve. The Death Knells or whatever they are called-are just looking for a little extra attention and recognition in the online and offline press. Their bad attitude does not help the reputation of a wonderful company with everything to gain and much to loose. The Apple computer technology is just as good as any other hardware out there, and they deserve the respect of every entrepreneur on the planet, not just for rising back to profitable, but for not yielding to market pressures and giving in. They have taken their company from little gains to massive gains even in this slump. Their efforts are being rewarded with much praise. The people who would seek to hurt the company should reconsider and revise their attitude. Even companies like Microsoft have good intentions (Profitable ones) in Apple.

I like to think of Apple as David, and the Tech industry as Goliath.

patric
11-28-2003, 09:24 AM
Well,

Got our first dual 2ghz mac G5 this week. I can only say that its the best machine I've ever worked on. I've been on IRIX, Linux, Solaris, Windows and now OSX.
Stable os and fast hardware and its cheap. I think a lot of larger facilities are waiting for full software support on osx, then I think most linux facilities are switching, thats a lot of boxes to replace. Right now all we are waiting for is full support for all pixar renderman products then we are going all osx.

Patric

ilasolomon
11-28-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by RobertoOrtiz
Doubt it. And I am not a Mac nut, but I have seen religious cults with a lot less fanaticism.

To be honest they do make good equipment, and
they do have a HARDCORE user base.

I don’t see them going away anytime soon.

-R

Do you remember Amiga? ;-) at that time there was no equipment better than that, and not more HARDCORE users than amiga users too!
but it failed.

Cageman
11-28-2003, 11:50 PM
There are companies doing new hardware for Amigas (A1200, A4000), and new Amigas are in production (PPC-based mobo, PCI etc). AmigaOS 4 will be released soon, etc, etc...

http://os.amiga.com/

If Amiga can survive with a small usergroup, why wouldnīt Apple manage to do the same? They have a lot bigger userbase than Amiga, and a more established platform...

I think the article is nonsense...

AJ
11-28-2003, 11:57 PM
Actually - the Amiga only failed when equipment better than it did come on to the market.

3-4 years into the Amiga's life, PC's were just starting to make their way into homes, consoles were getting better (the SNES for example) and they just couldn't compete - not for want of trying though! The CD32, the A1200, the A600 - all brave attempts to keep the boat afloat, but in the end the competition was too strong. I even knew someone who actually bought an ill fated Commodore branded PC, sufficed to say they didn't get much support when both it and the company went down...

As for Apple - it's not just a case of 'hardcore' users, they still have a stronghold on the 2D graphics industry... and with Pixar as a mighty cash cow I'm sure Mr Jobs can invest his money wisely ;)

soulburn3d
11-30-2003, 11:39 PM
4 out of 5 dentists agree colgate is better than crest!

- Neil

fr3drik
11-30-2003, 11:55 PM
Take a look at NASDAQ:
Apple, Microsoft and IBM index chart (http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?page=charting&mode=basics&intraday=off&timeframe=10y&charttype=line&splits=off&movingaverage=none&lowerstudy=volume&comparison=on&index=&drilldown=off&symbol=AAPL&symbol=IBM&symbol=MSFT&selected=AAPL)

roland_g
12-02-2003, 01:58 AM
I am a PC user, but not by choice (money money money).

With the Pc market getting more and more split up (AMD INTEL).... I can't wait to switch.

When I was 12 it was kind of fun to stay up to date with whats happening on the pc market, but now I simple just can't stand it anymore.

Nowadays I just want to get work done, be it 3d work, music recording or design stuff without having to read 1000 articles about which chipset works best with which soundcards etc. etc.

Apple delievers powerful and well designed machines and it's not really that important if an certain AMD setup beats the best Mac.

I can't wait for my first Power Mac.

rudipooimf
12-02-2003, 02:13 PM
Anything you can do on a MAC can be done on a PC alot cheaper...that really is the bottom line for survival. Price to performance and what can be done efficiently and inexpensively.

chadtheartist
12-02-2003, 02:26 PM
Not true. The dual processor G5 is pretty cheap compared to a similarly configured PC. If you don't believe that, then do some research on why Virginia Tech went with a G5 workstation to create it's 1,100 workstation supercomputer. Ranks in the top 3 most powerful supercomputers in the world, and was incredibly cheap in comparison to other computers made up of similar PC machines.

Your statement might have been true a few months ago, but the G5 really changed that. It may not be as fast as a dual Xeon 3.2 workstation. But as far as price per comparison of features, PC's and Macs(G5's) are on par.

rudipooimf
12-02-2003, 03:01 PM
Well i'm betting that the dual g5 isn't cheaper than the dual Athlon 64 and that machine is owning the G5's on almost every benchmark. And if you want to talk about super computers, the Texas one built from several hundred Playstation 2 consoles was one of the fastest ever and the cheapest. Does that mean i'll be buying a PS2 to use Maya on..i think not.

Really it's funny how fanatical Mac followers are, often not being able to see the forrest through the trees. Mac just got AGP 8x which has been in PC's for a while now. I get tired of hearing how advanced and how much faster they are etc. etc. at nauseum. If I own a business and want to be able to connect with my customers seamlessly and inexpeisively, Mac is never even a thought. I worked for 2 design houses that had a mac user in each and the mac was a constant problem just to get it to print across a network....come on, let's be realistic here, Mac's a gimick hardware for people who want to be different. They do nothing a PC can't do, their not better. I've had a dual p4 running under windows XP pro for months with never a hickup...no crashes, so their not even more stable like everyone would like to say.

If it weren't for all the schools that use them early on in our childhoods they may not even exist...lol


Let the flames begin! lol

chadtheartist
12-02-2003, 03:21 PM
Really it's funny how fanatical Mac followers are, often not being able to see the forrest through the trees.

You call me fanatical, when all I did was dispute your blanket statement? I never said Macs own, rule, beat out, or are better than, or pretty much crush PC's. I merely stated that Macs are coming back, and are no longer the most expensive for less functionality than they use to be.

Yes, the AMD Athlon64 chip is great. I agree with that 100%. I own two PC's with AMD chips, and one PC laptop with an Intel chip. They work great for what I use them for. No problems with AMD or Intel for that matter.

What I have a problem with is PC fanatics, who come into Mac related threads, drop blanket statements about how Macs are inferior, and expect their thoughts to be appreciated. It accomplishes little. Except for bringing about heated arguments and debate.

rudipooimf
12-02-2003, 03:24 PM
You misunderstood me dude, all i said was that the price to performance comparison at least until rescently as you pointed out was what would kill Mac in the long run due to obvious business logic. I'm no Mac hater per say, just tired of the elitest crap i get from Mac users when i say i use a PC. lol

atzfratz
12-02-2003, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by rudipooimf
I worked for 2 design houses that had a mac user in each and the mac was a constant problem just to get it to print across a network

Macs are wide spread in design and production companys here. Its really a help to have at least 1 of them here.

Marc Andreoli
12-02-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by fr3drik
Take a look at NASDAQ:
Apple, Microsoft and IBM index chart (http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?page=charting&mode=basics&intraday=off&timeframe=10y&charttype=line&splits=off&movingaverage=none&lowerstudy=volume&comparison=on&index=&drilldown=off&symbol=AAPL&symbol=IBM&symbol=MSFT&selected=AAPL)

interesting chart, looks like the stock price of all three companies follows pretty much the same pattern...

You should also check out the 'company financials' section. The net income of M$ and IBM was about the same from 99-01, but then IBM took a dump in 02 and M$ rose...IBM had a few 'non-recurring items' (restructuring ?) there.

Also interesting to see that the 'gross income' of IBM is quite a bit higher than M$, but then they spend twice as much on 'Sales, General and Admin.'.

Now, the thing that really blows my mind is that M$ spends 10x as much on R&D than Apple.

nvvm
12-02-2003, 06:13 PM
My take on the situation is macs are here to stay. If they wanted they could take a huge chunk of market share from Windows desktop users. A lot of disgruntle window's users turn to lindows for a alternate OS but lindows although powerful and increasing in market share on the enterprise level(the whole reason for the caldera scandal) The desktop scene is relatively weak when you need more than word processing and surfing ability. This is what mac does well they give you a lot of good video and music authoring software with the OS. They like Linux need to increase the games support . I have come across a lot of people who have went all linux and keep a copy of windows around just for the stress relief fun of lan parties and other gaming. I myself hate installing windows and spending a additional hour disabling all of the built in spy, that can only be disable and not remove the files(windows replacinges them) so mr. hacker can expliot this. Heck if apple released a x86 version of their software I'm b running it on all my PC's.

Marc Andreoli
12-02-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by fr3drik
Take a look at NASDAQ:
Apple, Microsoft and IBM index chart (http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?page=charting&mode=basics&intraday=off&timeframe=10y&charttype=line&splits=off&movingaverage=none&lowerstudy=volume&comparison=on&index=&drilldown=off&symbol=AAPL&symbol=IBM&symbol=MSFT&selected=AAPL)

...and also look at this one year chart (http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?page=charting&mode=basics&intraday=off&timeframe=1y&charttype=line&splits=off&movingaverage=none&lowerstudy=volume&comparison=on&index=&drilldown=off&symbol=AAPL&symbol=IBM&symbol=MSFT&selected=AAPL)
;)

thesaint
12-02-2003, 09:53 PM
It's interesting to me that people thought Linux would alter the position of Microsoft by squeezing it out of some key groups, and eventually, out of it's top spot -- but the real victim looks like it will be Apple.

I read an artical in PC World (unbias i know) that did a comparisom between the alienware 64 AMD single proc and the dual G5. There were several disclaimers that accompanied the article, but in essence, the alienware single beat the dual G5 by some margin in everything but the gaussian blur test in Photoshop.

64 bit Linux on a 64 bit x86 (AMD or Intel) sounds like the future to me. Apple? Well, i hope they stick around, but i do think there will be more and more marginalized.

And Apple have this horrible habit of turning to proprietary hardware connections under these curcumstances. And there's no Jobs to bail them out this time.

igorstshirts
12-02-2003, 10:30 PM
I use a dual Xeon machine and am in no way an Apple fan but... The Mac is here to stay. They have a way of keeping everything very clean and organized as well as specialized, plus tend to focus more on the video/multimedia side of things.

Apple should buy Flash from MM, one of the big five in 3D, and improve on some sort of compositing app. like AE. Sell the whole thing as a bundle for like five or six grand and include a cute little I-Pod/portable firewire drive and Boo-Yah!!!! Apple stocks go thru-da-roof.:banghead:

onlooker
12-03-2003, 07:05 PM
Compositing app? You mean like Shake? I cant remember when Apple has looked better. IMO Apple was the first real PC, and it's not looking like it's going anywhere anytime soon.

That 2.0 GHz G5 is much faster than any 2.0 GHz x86 Processor. Sure Apple put it up against the fastest Dual Xeons for a comparison, but the truth is it does unimaginably well against them at 1GHz less per processor.

There is a Mac event in a month called Macworld San Francisco, or creative pro, or something. There may be a PowerMac update there, or there may not, but if IBM has a 3GHz G5 for Apple ready I'll bet that IBM processor will kill any x86 processors available today.
Apple may be looking extremely good in a month, or so. Then again. Maybe there will not be a PowerMac update. Only Apple and IBM know, and neither of them are talking to anyone, but each other.
:shrug:

Daz
12-03-2003, 10:26 PM
Its only fair if i tell you all first, that I am NOT a mac fan, and that what i say here (obviosly) is my own opinion.

When computers where originally made there where a bunch of architectures made in CPUS, the motorolla (macintosh), the intel architecture (all PCs, including AMDs), the others where Amiga and Dell i think. Either way the 64bit processors require a completely new architecture, meaning they'll require new programs, even though AMD has decided to allow moderate compatibility with the current 32bit programs I think that we are going to enter a time where every spare dollar will go into R&D. I think that with things such as the intel centrino and many other strange accesorys being made for PCs and Laptops that it will be a very hard road ahead for apple. Many people decided to go with apple originally because it has a better CPU architecture. Now that AMD and Intel are redesigning the architecture they run on it could be a bad day for apple. Apple computers these days are generally bought by whinning yuppies in the design industry who really cant give any good reason why apples are better other than "photoshop first came out on the mac" or "the Mac has a couple programs that 3 people use that are not available on pc".

Also, not to offend anyone, but i know how mac users love to praise their overpriced computers like its a deadly addiction. -Seriosly though, I wouldn't be supprised to find that the average (but not all) mac fanatics will tell you that the cost-inefficient see-through cases with rounded edges make the computer run smoother. As much as you may laugh or cry and say what a stupid statement that is, one must truely ask themself why macs are mass produced with these cost inefficient cases, just like how a couple PC companies made a bundle of $$$ just by selling computers in black cases or silver mouses.

Most of you out there will say "so what the hell does that last paragraph have to do with this topic?". My soul point being that nothing is more mass produced in this world than idiots who believe that stripes on a car make it go faster or that a laptop with rounded edges is more reliable. And for the sake of not being attacked here on cgtalk.com i'm going to make the following statement.

- All CGers buy macs for completely logical reasons.

Alot (not all) of the designers out there (not CGers or anyone reading this of course) are so thick and filled with vanity that they'd eat stake with chop sticks because its more japanesse and today japan = cool. The obvios point here being that no matter how practical or usefull something is a large percentage of the market will only buy it if its in a nice package.

[[ Before you start complaining remember: My soul point is that the future is really unpredicible when we live in an era where people will buy a silver kettle because surely a silver kettle boils water faster ]]

Pixelmaestro
12-03-2003, 11:16 PM
He moderated a panel in an empty room. I heard that Comdex was a bust and a huge waste of time this year.

http://www.enderlegroup.com/rpts/Christmas%202003%20Buying%20Guide2.htm

Looking at this guys buying list, he is obviously a bought and payed for Public Relations spokesperson.

moovieboy
12-04-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Daz
Its only fair if i tell you all first, that I am NOT a mac fan, and that what i say here (obviosly) is my own opinion.

SNIP...

Alot (not all) of the designers out there (not CGers or anyone reading this of course) are so thick and filled with vanity that they'd eat stake with chop sticks because its more japanesse and today japan = cool. The obvios point here being that no matter how practical or usefull something is a large percentage of the market will only buy it if its in a nice package.

[[ Before you start complaining remember: My soul point is that the future is really unpredicible when we live in an era where people will buy a silver kettle because surely a silver kettle boils water faster ]]

Okay Daz, you've got a point... but you should move to the next stage and let it go, silver kettles and all :p

Truth be told, buried in everyone's closet/living room/garage/workspace are things we buy/love/rave about for no great practical reason. This car, those shoes, this DVD, that video game, this cookware set, that chair, this watch, that woman you dated for nine months, the trip to whereever.... but then again, so what?

Someone sells more of their MP3 player, FPS game, SUV, computer, underwear because the packaging is shiny or it caught that elusive "cool" vibe for 15 seconds... big deal.

So, to Apple... They've got incredible talent at designing, packaging, hyping and selling their particualr brand of stuff. You've chosen to basically throw a little acid at the people who like Apple more because it goes with their office decor or leather case instead of what's under the hood, right?

The problem is you're making the false assumption that things like CPU architecture, clockspeeds and the like should be the driving factor in choice of a PC or laptop. To everyone?

Why should some screenwriter or library assistant or paralegal or Medical student give a tinker's cuss about how PC World said this other computer gets 10 extra frames per second in Doom3, or renders particles in Maya 30 seconds faster?

In their minds, they rightly believe that all the computers are pretty much the same insofar as they can all play music, surf the web, write their reports and IM their friends. If their final choice is choosing the shiny one they saw on "24" or "Sex in the City," are we justified in arrogantly saying "that's a stupid reason!"?

Now, should they be bashing people because they've got an iPod or a G5 or a 20-inch iMac? Of course not. But it shouldn't invite bashing either... :D

-Tom

kromekat
12-04-2003, 02:23 PM
I am not a Mac nut, but I have seen religious cults with a lot less fanaticism.


Yeah, funny how that looks in reverse from a Mac users point of view! especially when as someone else points out:

People have been predicting Apple's death for 15 years. I don't see why they would stop now

coupled with ignorance:

Anything you can do on a MAC can be done on a PC alot cheaper

An equally specced G5 and Xeon machine come in about the same, in fact the Xeon is a little more.

I own a business and want to be able to connect with my customers seamlessly and inexpeisively, Mac is never even a thought. I worked for 2 design houses that had a mac user in each and the mac was a constant problem just to get it to print across a network

Virtually every design house, magazine, publisher etc etc I work with use Macs primarily - the problems come with their Wintel boxes, and as for connectivity... LMAO! - trust me, Mac is not the weak link in that argument.

They do nothing a PC can't do

No that's right - they are a computer - a damned fine, well built, fast, stable OS and great looking computer!

What is the fascination with seeing Apple go under?? - and what's more disturbing is that while calling Mac users fanatics and claiming the [Apple] end is nigh, much of the overly vocal PC flock rub their hands in anticipation! - why?? - becuase they are smaller, independent and imaginitive?? - is that such a threat to the global Wintel empire? - if you don't get why many people prefer a Mac, then shut up and enjoy your PC - as is so often the case, nobody mentions that it's the PC users that have the most to say about it and defintely seem to get the most upset! lol! :rolleyes:

Currently on my 4th Mac since 1995 - all the other 3 are still working perfectly, all talking to each other, all know where the printer is, all looking nice.

Do I sound like a 'fanatic'?

I think not.

Marc Andreoli
12-04-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Daz
When computers where originally made there where a bunch of architectures made in CPUS, the motorolla (macintosh), the intel architecture (all PCs, including AMDs), the others where Amiga and Dell i think.

The Amiga and AtariST were motorolla as well, I think Dell were always to be placed in the PC catergory.

Oh, and the great Acorn Archimedes was based on ARM. The Archimedes is dead, but the ARM chip lives on in cellphones, mp3 players, washing machines and useful devices...

Just on a side note ;)

fr3drik
12-05-2003, 12:19 AM
It's funny how this thread changed into being just one of those pointless Mac vs PC discussions.
Let's be friends and have some beer everyone! :beer:

kromekat
12-05-2003, 01:11 AM
It's funny how this thread changed into being just one of those pointless Mac vs PC discussions.


I agree, but then if you start a thread linking to some doomsayers prediction of the end of Apple yet again, you are already going down that road anyway - it's a no brainer.
:rolleyes:

stakk4
12-06-2003, 11:19 AM
We should just have our own Butlerian Jihad and destroy all the evil thinking machines and start training mentats. :thumbsup:

Cageman
12-06-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by onlooker
IMO Apple was the first real PC, and it's not looking like it's going anywhere anytime soon.


In my opinion, Amiga was the first real PC. There were ALOT of Amigas out there (A500) and no, those machines did not only offer games. There were word processors and gfx-applications as well... And it was affordable

Cageman
12-06-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by kromekat

Currently on my 4th Mac since 1995 - all the other 3 are still working perfectly, all talking to each other, all know where the printer is, all looking nice.

Do I sound like a 'fanatic'?

I think not.

Not at all. I see your point clearly. I still use my Amiga 1200 quite frequently (E-mail, web, IRC etc) and I bought it back in 1995 (I think it was designed in 1992). Iīve upgraded it to some extent (GFX-card, soundcard, memory and such). Itīs really neat to use it, and...believe it or not; compared to my PC-machines it feels quite responistive. My Amiga has an 68060/50MHz CPU and a Voodoo3 GFX-card, while my PC has 1.6GHz CPU and a GeForce4 Ti4200 gfx-card.

My point with this is... I see Macs as cool computers, tastefull and "I would like to try one out" mark on it. The downside with Mac is that itīs a bit expensive and that I canīt buy the parts I want and assemble them myself to cut cost.

Having said that, yes... Iīm addicted to Amiga and will always be, because it was there it all started for me and it delivers some inspiration to me, even though I donīt use it for 3D anymore.

Itīs like music; some music gives you inspiration, some not. Why would this be any different in the world of computers?

RobW720
12-07-2003, 12:55 AM
but if apple dies... what... what will happen to Lt. Dan and Forest Gump!?!

mmoses00
12-09-2003, 09:51 AM
Just wait until the REAL viruses come... and they will!

"Subtle viruses" - the kind that wreak tiny amounts of havok but are as ubiquitous as the air we breathe.

Little annoyances that run rampant and continuous until every single Windows x86 (even 64 bit) machine on earth seemingly becomes more of a burden than productive tool.

The REAL viruses do not crash machines or erase hard drives (those will happen too), but run silently, slowly, randomly, intermittently killing resources and eating up bandwidth and CPU threads. These little creatures, use AI and social profiling algorithms to recognize possible detection, they are always encrypted, and distributed throughout many file parts on disparate systems, able to rebuild themselves over the network if they are deactivated.

Most of these will be written with custom made compilers, using virtual machine technology to remain hidden.

Windows will need to be rebuilt from scratch (and it will), and its underlying OS will be a UNIX variant, just like Apple's.

Apple is going to dominate the entire media production space in 5 years. The core of that industry is built on a UNIX backend.

So... Microsoft, IBM, and Apple will be around for awhile.

...MCSE Windows SysAdmin

voivod
12-10-2003, 12:13 AM
I have recently found the dreaded "1" Apple virus, and gotten rid of it. OS9 only mind you. If you see the "666" in your extensions folder?...Then u have it too. Good luck...it only affects updates and minor issues.

I can honestly say that Macs are toooo expensive and over-rated...BUT

I love them and use them everyday. OSX is much more stable than XP (Mac @ wrk and XP @ home) ...but Adobe needs to get their butts in gear with some bug fixes in OSX.

I use C4D on OSX and love it. Won't be changing my studio around anytime soon.

cheers all

ilasolomon
12-10-2003, 06:42 PM
Today I was with one of my mac freak friends, playing with his new G5, OSX and FinalCut Pro 4, for a few hours.

Crashed 3 times during the session! ;-)

my XP/AMD@home craches once in a month, and you know I WORK@home.

BoydLake
12-10-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by voivod
...but Adobe needs to get their butts in gear with some bug fixes in OSX.

Isn't there a bit of a war brewing between Apple and Adobe over Apple's competetive strategies? I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Adobe letting the OSX dev lag a bit... especially after they announced Premiere Pro will no longer be in development for OSX.

moovieboy
12-10-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Boyd Lake
Isn't there a bit of a war brewing between Apple and Adobe over Apple's competetive strategies? I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Adobe letting the OSX dev lag a bit... especially after they announced Premiere Pro will no longer be in development for OSX.

Well, judging by the quick response Adobe has made towards both the G5 and OSX updates in regards to the CS suites and After Effects, it sounds like they know which side their butter is on with the large Mac community of 2D/Motion graphics designers...

-Tom

BoydLake
12-10-2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by moovieboy
Well, judging by the quick response Adobe has made towards both the G5 and OSX updates in regards to the CS suites and After Effects, it sounds like they know which side their butter is on with the large Mac community of 2D/Motion graphics designers...

-Tom

Yeah, but what happens when Apple buys Discreet's Combustion which they are rumored to be doing.... as well as having already purchased Shake? When they (Apple) moved into desktop video editing with Final Cut, that really cut into Adobe's market share in that sector. I'm curious to see what happens in the motion graphics 2d comp market as Shake development evolves and if the Buy and continue development of Combustion.

Ibox
12-10-2003, 10:25 PM
so there I was, a few years back now...sitting in the livingroom, my brand new Amiga 1200 tower staring at me through the box... my a500 and a2000 staring over at the new, unpacked beast with seething rage ;)

moovieboy
12-10-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Boyd Lake
Yeah, but what happens when Apple buys Discreet's Combustion which they are rumored to be doing.... as well as having already purchased Shake? When they (Apple) moved into desktop video editing with Final Cut, that really cut into Adobe's market share in that sector. I'm curious to see what happens in the motion graphics 2d comp market as Shake development evolves and if the Buy and continue development of Combustion.

From what I can discern from Apple's "Pro" strategies (as opposed to the consumer/digital hub strategies), they tend to get involved when there's a weakness or complete void in an area of the Mac market.

Middle of the '90s, compositing and Non-linear editing on Macs weren't progressing very far past a "hobbyist" level, After Effects notwithstanding... Avid was getting a little flaky with Mac support on Media Composer... Discreet always seemed on the bubble with continuing Mac developement... So Apple responded with FCP and making Shake their own.

Seeing that they have Shake (And Chalice, come to think of it) I can't see why Combustion* would be desired. Combustion* is so integrated with Flame* and Inferno* technologies, Apple would have to swallow all of Discreet, which would be a really weird choice and involve a massive overhaul to integrate into Apple's hardware and just sounds like a big mess for everyone involved. Especially because it would also involve Max users and there'd be shockwaves gallore throughout the gaming and 3D industries...

The only thing I could see Apple buying at this point would be Alias, but that's something that may still be best avoided as long as Maya Unlimited and perhaps Sketchbook get ported over to OSX... But that's probably a long shot too :D

As for the 2D market, it'd be suicidal for Apple to ever consider a Photoshop-like app. No one's asking for it and Adobe would never pull PS from Mac designers, no matter what Apple does in the future...

...at least that's how I see it.

-Tom

mushroomgod
12-10-2003, 11:14 PM
but if apple dies... what... what will happen to Lt. Dan and Forest Gump!?!

:thumbsup:

halo
12-10-2003, 11:25 PM
oh im sure they'll be fine on their shrimping fleet ;)

onlooker
12-10-2003, 11:29 PM
I would say that judging from all the posts in this thread. From people that dislike Mac's don't care either way, or are Mac fanatics. All seem to agree on one thing. Apple up, and dying is probably not going to happen.

beaker
12-11-2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Boyd Lake
Yeah, but what happens when Apple buys Discreet's Combustion which they are rumored to be doing.... as well as having already purchased Shake? When they (Apple) moved into desktop video editing with Final Cut, that really cut into Adobe's market share in that sector. I'm curious to see what happens in the motion graphics 2d comp market as Shake development evolves and if the Buy and continue development of Combustion.
Thats a really old rumor that came about because the Combustion and Shake development teams were in the same building in Venice, CA. Discreet closed their LA office, canned *Edit and put combustion in a holding pattern. The shake team swallowed many of the combustion developers since they were just downstairs(most of them didnt want to move to Montreal). They also took over all the old combustion space in the building.

So the rumors spawned from those turn of events 2 years ago.

moovieboy
12-11-2003, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by beaker
Thats a really old rumor that came about because the Combustion and Shake development teams were in the same building in Venice, CA. Discreet closed their LA office, canned *Edit and put combustion in a holding pattern. The shake team swallowed many of the combustion developers since they were just downstairs(most of them didnt want to move to Montreal). They also took over all the old combustion space in the building.

So the rumors spawned from those turn of events 2 years ago.

Thanks, Deke for the info on that! Now if we could just do something about all them other rumors spinning about Discreet/Adobe/Apple/Alias/Etc... Then again, what on earth would half of us have to talk about? :p

-Tom

halo
12-11-2003, 01:14 AM
microsoft buying adobe...? (oops...wheres that edit button...im sure my NDA said something about forums....)

onlooker
12-11-2003, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by halo
microsoft buying adobe...? (oops...wheres that edit button...im sure my NDA said something about forums....)
Now that would be a kick in the ass wouldn't it. :lol:

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