dynamics to effect bones soft ik, possible?

[anobrin]

Not a chance in hell:argh:

[wuensch]

I guess it might be possible to restrict the bones motion via Thinking Particle-expresso colission, but I have not tried nor do I really know ifor how it works.
Mme Sadie (Per Anders, the Mesh Surgery Guy) has made an example oft softbody via TP expresso and its has an astounding performance and stability compared to Dynamics.
With Dynamics its 100 % impossible, I agree.
Olli

[Srek]

Originally posted by anobrin
Not a chance in hell:argh:

Wanna bet? ;)

http://www.bonkers.de/download/sik_collision.mov (1 MB)
http://www.bonkers.de/download/sik_collision.zip (13 KB)
Now new with working Link ;)

Have fun
Srek

[wuensch]

Srek, what if the ball would be animated deformed via bones--- would it work too? (have not lookes at the c4d file yet).
It might be possible to liink colission spheres to the head via expresso and have the bones collide with those insted of the mesh--- much like with Shave and haircuts colisson spheres then--
Olli

[wuensch]

Oh, i gave false credit: looks like the Softbody via Thinking particles credit goes to Srek, not to Per Anders (who has done some wonderful programming, too).
Sorry, Srek.
Btw.: I could not download the c4d file, link broken---

Olli

[Srek]

Originally posted by Olli Wuensch
Srek, what if the ball would be animated deformed via bones--- would it work too? (have not lookes at the c4d file yet).
It might be possible to liink colission spheres to the head via expresso and have the bones collide with those insted of the mesh--- much like with Shave and haircuts colisson spheres then--
Olli

Nope, Dynamics can't handle deformed meshes right now. A TP solution that is able to work with deformed meshes could be realised in much the same way as this Dynamics solutin.
Cheers
Srek

[Srek]

Originally posted by Olli Wuensch
Oh, i gave false credit: looks like the Softbody via Thinking particles credit goes to Srek, not to Per Anders (who has done some wonderful programming, too).
Sorry, Srek.
Btw.: I could not download the c4d file, link broken---

Olli

Not exactly, we were doing it both at the same time exchanging what we were doing.
Cheers
Srek

[anobrin]

Originally posted by Srek
Wanna bet? ;)

http://www.bonkers.de/download/sik_collision.mov (1 MB)
http://www.bonkers.de/download/sik_collision.zip (13 KB)
Now new with working Link ;)

Have fun
Srek


Hi
You Have one Dynamics solver creating
collision detection for ONE
Strand of SIK bones and a sphere
so in a theoretical framework
it can be acheived.
howver the thread starter seems to indicate he
wants to simulate a full head of hair
colliding and reacting to an underlying sphere(head)

thats the problem with C4DXl dynamics
It fooled alot of us with simple simulations
like this:
http://66.70.166.29/promo/clthdrop.mpg

and we mistakenly thought we could
extrapolate to this:
http://66.70.166.29/promo/clothbvh.mpg



;)

[wuensch]

absolutely true,
when Dynamics came out and I found out I could not do what i wanted to do with it.
Its practically the only Maxon product ever that really left me totally disappointed.
Not that its not good, just the only thing I wanted it for was Clothes for Character, and thats practically impossible.
Olli

[danb]

anobrin is exactly correct. i did want to simulate a full head of hair. although srek's solution seems that i might be able to achieve this with a little luck and persistence. i am also working to achieve the effect in the second movie. basically what i am going to do is make a second mesh which is pieced into section like , forearm, bicep , etc. which is then a chidren of the deforming bones. i will then drape the clothe mesh over these objects in hope that they will act as a proxy object and deform the cloth softbody in unison with the doforming character mesh.

well it sounds alot less complicated in my head.:thumbsup:

[wuensch]

better then parenting the objects to the bones attach them via expresso and a soimple global location-global rotation transfer. simply make a null with the bones position and take it out of the hierarchy, then place the proxy inside.
I found this performs much better than dragging the Mesh with the bones along.(but it might be differnet with the new Stop tag since 8.2, where it stops deformation ,too--
)
Olli

[danb]

oli have you ever made a deforming cloth scene like this?

[wuensch]

I have used this setup in connection with Shave & Haircut1 & 2, to use Proxy Spheres as colission objects for long hair--
the spheres were places over shoulder/Face Area .
It worked very well and much faster than full mesh colission with shave.
I used a similar setup to stop a characters cape moving in Wind animated via Dynamics (shoulder rows atached to a cape double deformed by bones with the character) from intersecting the character, used Boxes significally larger than the character attached to belly/abdomen/UperlegLeft/UpperlegRight.
Worked very nice.
What defenitely never worked right was to use proxys to simulate cloth on character like a long skirt convincingly-- dynamics colission is not exact enough to deliver good results here, plus one would expect to see the exact form of legs through the skirt.
Olli

[danb]

thanks olie for replying. the scene i am working on uses selections from the mesh which is deformed by the bones. so maybe this will give a closer resemblance to the exact shape of the underlying mesh( i.e. legs, arms, etc) for the cloth mesh rather than scaled boxes. although i am not sure my computer is going to be able to handle the work load.

i hope it does. i am keeping my fingers crossed.

btw, olie, do you have any scenes that you could share on this subject?

[paulselhi]

Originally posted by anobrin
Hi
You Have one Dynamics solver creating
collision detection for ONE
Strand of SIK bones and a sphere
so in a theoretical framework
it can be acheived.
howver the thread starter seems to indicate he
wants to simulate a full head of hair
colliding and reacting to an underlying sphere(head)

thats the problem with C4DXl dynamics
It fooled alot of us with simple simulations
like this:
http://66.70.166.29/promo/clthdrop.mpg

and we mistakenly thought we could
extrapolate to this:
http://66.70.166.29/promo/clothbvh.mpg



;)

is this a poem ? can i send it into private eye ?

[wuensch]

Sorry, cannot share the scene as it belongs to a commercial project.
I am not sure if I understand what yu want to do.
First:
Dynamics Colission will not recognize properly a mesh deformed by bones.
You can only collide undeformed objects (or deformed by softbody).

Then: if you want to collide poly-hair meshes,deflect them from the face/shoulders, fine.
if you want to collide a shirt ot jacket: good luck.
I would say its not possible.
The colission does not work good enough to caculate a colission holding a mesh from the inside--
its good enough for bouncing back meshes like a cape, though.
Make sure its as few polys a spossible that are Softbody, smooth via hypernurb after calculatin colission.

[danb]

OLLI--"Sorry, cannot share the scene as it belongs to a commercial project."

no problem about the scene. i understand.

OLLI--"I am not sure if I understand what yu want to do.
First:
Dynamics Colission will not recognize properly a mesh deformed by bones.
You can only collide undeformed objects ."

bummer i hadn't thought about the bone deforming the mesh. how did i overlook that.:blush:

thanks for all the advice, OLLI. i will keep in in mind when trying to make the clothes for the scene.

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