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RobertoOrtiz
11-25-2003, 01:49 PM
Quote:
"While the press has discussed Microsoft's upcoming 'Sparkle' as a potential Flash-killer - the technology arena on which Microsoft's new technology is having the most impact is SVG. SVG (now a W3 standard for 3 yeras) was itself billed as a Flash-killer some years ago, and speculation about how it might be accepted into the mainstream for developers (i.e. incorporated into IE) now seems inevitable -- you see, Sparkle's real name is WVG and is 90% identical to SVG."

>>Link<< (http://slashdot.org/articles/03/11/25/0224227.shtml?tid=109&tid=126&tid=152&tid=185&tid=187&tid=95)

-R

t-toe
11-25-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by RobertoOrtiz
Quote:
"...SVG (now a W3 standard for 3 yeras) was itself billed as a Flash-killer some years ago..."

Wow, 3 whole yeras?! That's amzangi!!!

Hehe, just joshin'. That would be pretty sweet. I could imagine some pretty cool uses for that...

Morganism
11-25-2003, 02:52 PM
Sparkle. Who's in charge of coming up with names for stuff at Microsoft, anyway?

tjnyc
11-25-2003, 02:58 PM
So this is what happened with Creature Houses' Expression 3 vector engine. Man, I knew they were going to whore the technology into windows and screw the Expression usebase from a great vector application.

Thalaxis
11-25-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by tjnyc
Man, I knew they were going to whore the technology into windows and screw the Expression usebase from a great vector application.

Did you, now? Well, the guys at Creature House said something
different.

tjnyc
11-25-2003, 04:19 PM
Like what? There has been no word from CH on the future of E3 and LC, and no word from MS to CH users of the future of E3 and LC. If you know something that Alex from CH has kept quite about then as a E3 user I would love to know.

Thalaxis
11-25-2003, 04:38 PM
On the Expression mailing list, one of the CH guys posted a note
saying that they will be continuing development on both
Expression and Living Cells.

In any case, think about it for a minute. In the mass market,
technology doesn't sell products. Content does. MS doesn't
want, MS needs Longhorn to sell.

So since technology won't do it, why would they kill off the tools
that allow users to create content for the technology that they
want to sell? They're greedy, not stupid. They didn't get rich by
killing off revenue streams.

The only open question is that of mac support. The CH guys have
not answered that, but I got the impression that unless there is
a command from "on high" to cease mac support, they will
continue with it. Besides, MS is the largest mac software vendor
in the industry, so it's not like there's no precedent there.

tjnyc
11-25-2003, 04:55 PM
"On the Expression mailing list, one of the CH guys posted a note
saying that they will be continuing development on both
Expression and Living Cells."

If you read the actual post by Alex Hsu of CH, R&D into the technology will continue, but the future of E3 and LC is unclear and will be ultimately determined by MS.

"So since technology won't do it, why would they kill off the tools
that allow users to create content for the technology that they
want to sell? They're greedy, not stupid. They didn't get rich by
killing off revenue streams."

MS has killed off MANY tools that created content for the win platform to be eventually included into windows and established windows products, publisher and powerpoint are two good example of this, so this isn't new. Also, E3 doesn't generate enough revenue in MS eyes for them to put money into kepting it going unless it benefited MS. Incorporating the CH's vector engine into Windows is such a move, but having E3 which like you know runs on MacOS doesn't make for good business for MS.
This needs to considered a MS technology and any link to E3 will not fit that model, which means the death of E3 and LC as we know it. This has been MS track record, and as many other E3 users have feared MS will not change for a small but loved app like E3.

Per-Anders
11-25-2003, 05:03 PM
publisher and powerpoint still exist last thing i checked and are still being updated. or are you saying they are what ms turned an earlier non ms produciton tool into?

if so then it's not that big of a deal really. when macromedia bought smartsketch it languished for some time before they turned it into flash.

tjnyc
11-25-2003, 05:16 PM
No, I am saying that MS swallowed other 3rd party application technology into publisher and powerpoint, while killing off the existing 3rd party apps altogether as a example of MS's usual approach.

E3 and LC are not being distributed anymore, which isn't a good sign that there is a short term or long term future for the products. The reasoning, was that the uncertainity of the direction of both products remain in limbo. And since MS owns the technology, they will have to say what is to become of the products in question.

I doubt MS cares about the products, their interest is obviously for the technology and how best to utilize it for their plans, and with this news, it just makes some things clear what MS wants to use this technology for.

TerrestrialSea
11-26-2003, 01:56 AM
I think that Microsoft is doing what they always have -- Kill off the Competition! -- And thatís what SVG is going to do. Microsoft will eventually put up enough barriers for Flash animation and Shockwave that Macromedia will inevitably sell out or create a new technology.

Microsoft Monopoly 101

BTW, SVG may conquer, but Flash will always be remembered. :buttrock:

plug3
11-26-2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by TerrestrialSea
I think that Microsoft is doing what they always have -- Kill off the Competition! -- And thatís what SVG is going to do. Microsoft will eventually put up enough barriers for Flash animation and Shockwave that Macromedia will inevitably sell out or create a new technology.

Microsoft Monopoly 101

BTW, SVG may conquer, but Flash will always be remembered. :buttrock:

I wouldn't worry too much about Flash. There's a 'little' more to it than just vector graphic...
Plus the only encounters I have had so far with SVG is in the import/export menus of applications. So now there's gonna be another import/export option: '.WVG' Awesome.

elam
11-26-2003, 06:10 AM
Theres also XAML, which is a direct copy of XUL, Mozilla's xml based markup language.

But it's all pointless, because by the time 2007 rolls around and Microsoft finally puts out Longhorn, everyone else will have adopted W3C standards, a foreign concept to Microshaft.

Thalaxis
11-26-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by elam

adopted W3C standards, a foreign concept to Microshaft.

So, you've never heard of JScript, BizTalk, or XML Schema?

I don't much like MS, but FUD like this is inane.

ggg
11-26-2003, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by Thalaxis
So, you've never heard of JScript, BizTalk, or XML Schema?

I don't much like MS, but FUD like this is inane.
jscript? :surprised do you know jscripts history?

Thalaxis
11-26-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by ggg
jscript? :surprised do you know jscripts history?

What I do know is that MS brought it into conformance with
ECMAScript when I was forced to use it. Of course, I hated every
minute of it, since I was working for idiots that thought you could
do OO programming with it, even though that was far beyond the
purpose of JScript or ECMAScript, but that's not the language's
fault. :)

That's not to say that I believe that they would have kept it as
proprietary as possible if they thought that they could have
gotten away with it, though.

And in all honesty, I've not kept up with it since, so I don't know
whether they are still up to snuff with the ECMAScript spec,
though.

elam
11-27-2003, 02:07 AM
I don't much like MS, but FUD like this is inane.



That's not to say that I believe that they would have kept it as
proprietary as possible if they thought that they could have
gotten away with it, though.


Now your contradicting yourself. :rolleyes:

slaughters
11-27-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by tjnyc
No, I am saying that MS swallowed other 3rd party application technology into publisher and powerpoint, while killing off the existing 3rd party apps altogether as a example of MS's usual approach. Blah Blah Blah... Microsoft is evil... Blah Blah Blah...

TerrestrialSea
11-27-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by slaughters
Blah Blah Blah... Microsoft is evil... Blah Blah Blah...

Ahh!!! Something we can all agree with! :cool:

Thalaxis
11-28-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by elam
Now your contradicting yourself. :rolleyes:

No, I'm not.

elam
11-28-2003, 11:48 PM
Yes, you are.
Perhaps we should consult a dictionary:
con∑tra∑dic∑tion: Inconsistency; discrepancy.

Any clearer?

Thalaxis
11-29-2003, 02:16 AM
I stated nothing inconsistent. You're probably reading more into
my posts than I intended.

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