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Wardile
11-25-2003, 08:38 AM
Hey all.

Um i wuz wondering wich GPU would be better to spend lots a cash on.

I dont have much so im going for the
GF FX 5900 or the ATI 9800 PRO

Im using max 5.

Wich card would be the better choice, i know GF FX has great driver support... and i know the ATI has good speeds when it comes to anti- anilising.

Please give me opinions or facts.

Thank you for yer time

Wardile
11-25-2003, 12:47 PM
neva mind , im getting the 9800

gtidhar
11-27-2003, 11:52 AM
For 3D nvidia is better actually.

Though I have the 9800, but I bought it for games too.

Wardile
11-28-2003, 05:13 AM
How is the driver support for the 9800 ?


any good... or not, im ordering in 2 hours time, please let me know before i waste my loan cash

Wardile
11-28-2003, 09:51 AM
gtidhar

i thank you for giving me some input, and the rest of the comunninty for making sure we all can get the best for our cash,

i must admint im suprised at how helpfull everyone wuz.

Thanx again gtidhar :)

stephen2002
11-28-2003, 02:47 PM
Ye old search button does wonders for common questions such as yours. Search the board for "ATI" and find plenty of stories of their poor driver support and errors that make certain features in programs such as Maya unusable.

Will the 9800 work, yes, will it work well, no. If you are more into games than 3D then by all means go for the 9800. Otherwise go for an NVIDIA product. It would actually be best to wait out this generation of cards and see what is offered next if you are wanting the best in features.

3Dfx_Sage
11-29-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by stephen2002
[B]Ye old search button does wonders for common questions such as yours. Search the board for "ATI" and find plenty of stories of their poor driver support and errors that make certain features in programs such as Maya unusable. the poor driver support is only as far as Pro aps go, which means FireGL. The Radeon's have excellent support as far as gmaing goes, but they just weren't meant for pro aps (nor was the GForce), for that you need a FireGL or you just use RivaTuner to force your 9800 to be a FireGL :thumbsup: . Of course, the FireGL drivers are still not where they should be for a Pro card but ATi finally got their heads out of their arses on the issue and moved their FireGL driver dev team to Canadia (misspelled on purpose) so that the communication between them and the chip engineers would be a lot better and hopefully a lot of problems would start getting fixed, and if you look at their newest drivers you'll see that they are beginning to get things done. I'd give them about a year before ATi's Pro user support is at the level of nVidia's now.

CgFX
11-30-2003, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
The Radeon's have excellent support as far as gmaing goes

Like when they were blowing up everyone's monitors?

moved their FireGL driver dev team to Canadia (misspelled on purpose) so that the communication between them and the chip engineers would be a lot better and hopefully a lot of problems would start getting fixed
That won't help much since the 9700/9800 were designed in California.

3Dfx_Sage
11-30-2003, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by CgFX
Like when they were blowing up everyone's monitors?

That won't help much since the 9700/9800 were designed in California. blowing up peoples monitors? what the heck are you talking about. And as for moving the driver team to Canadia- yes, it will help a lot; they used to be in the UK.

CgFX
11-30-2003, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
blowing up peoples monitors? what the heck are you talking about. And as for moving the driver team to Canadia- yes, it will help a lot; they used to be in the UK.

How does being 2500 miles and 4 hours away help them any better than before? And they were in Germany. At least regurgitate what you read correctly. http://www.theinquirer.net//?article=11697

Yes, they are blowing up customer's monitors and in some cases their Radeon cards:

http://www.overclockers.com/tips00479/

http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=52230#post52230

http://www.3dchipset.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=472

3Dfx_Sage
11-30-2003, 05:39 PM
LOL good link. I have been corrected, they were originally in Germany, however it might be beneficial for you to read the article before posting it. If you had actually payed attention to it you would have read that the hardware engineers are in Canada as well. So, while my error was more technical and had no real impact, you'rs completely invalidates your point. You're quite obviously a fool and I intend to totally ignore you from now on.

To anyone scared about their hardware being "blown up"- it apears to be a hoax, however I will concede that it is possible that some very very old monitors could have been damaged. The issue was that the drivers were allowing people to run refresh rates that their monitors couldn't handle. Most monitors bought in the last 7 years have protection against refresh rates that the monitor can't handle which prevents any damage to the monitor. However, this is also a user error- the user would have to actually change the refresh rate themselves to do any damage. Also, if by some chance your card does overheat due to drivers then you shuld take it up with the company, they should be able to replace the card for you.


Originally posted by CgFX
How does being 2500 miles and 4 hours away help them any better than before? And they were in Germany. At least regurgitate what you read correctly. http://www.theinquirer.net//?article=11697

Yes, they are blowing up customer's monitors and in some cases their Radeon cards:

http://www.overclockers.com/tips00479/

http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=52230#post52230

http://www.3dchipset.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=472

edit: spelling

elvis
12-01-2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
So, while my error was more technical and had no real impact, you'rs completely invalidates your point. You're quite obviously a fool and I intend to totally ignore you from now on.

what the hell are you smoking?

the point is, they've moved from one location that is non-US to another location that is non-US. hell, i know how hard it is to communicatie with offices that are in a different state, let alone "closer" by a few countries. when you're dealing with different time zones, work ethics, holiday times, etc, etc it's never easy. and personally i see them spending a whole bunch of money to move from one country to another for bugger-all gain. i've seen it happen first hand time and time again.

and perhaps you'd better lighten up on the name calling before trying to understand a point someone else is making.

Novakog
12-01-2003, 02:23 AM
Actually, the monitor "blowing up" is not a hoax, it happened to me (with a Radeon 9500 Pro). After installing 3.8, when I tried to turn my monitor on (a Dell P991 I think, 3 yrs old), it would flicker like crazy and make funny sounds (which I've never heard a monitor make before) and then shut off with the power light turning orange, the EXACT SAME thing that was described here:

http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=52230#post52230

Eventually I might post a video of it, but probably not.

Also, I wasn't trying to overclock the card or anything like that, I don't do that stuff.

3Dfx_Sage
12-01-2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by elvis
what the hell are you smoking?

the point is, they've moved from one location that is non-US to another location that is non-US. hell, i know how hard it is to communicatie with offices that are in a different state, let alone "closer" by a few countries. when you're dealing with different time zones, work ethics, holiday times, etc, etc it's never easy. and personally i see them spending a whole bunch of money to move from one country to another for bugger-all gain. i've seen it happen first hand time and time again.

and perhaps you'd better lighten up on the name calling before trying to understand a point someone else is making. his point was that the engineers were in California, but the article he linked trying to discredit me instead discredited himself because it very clearly stated that the hardware engineers were in Canada, as I originally stated. Where in Europe they came from is pretty much a moot point vs how far they ended up from the hardware team.
I called him a fool because I am tired of him trying to contradict every single thing in every post I make in the hardware forum, and he has yet to make a point that is both valid and pertinent.

3Dfx_Sage
12-01-2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by Novakog
Actually, the monitor "blowing up" is not a hoax, it happened to me (with a Radeon 9500 Pro). After installing 3.8, when I tried to turn my monitor on (a Dell P991 I think, 3 yrs old), it would flicker like crazy and make funny sounds (which I've never heard a monitor make before) and then shut off with the power light turning orange, the EXACT SAME thing that was described here:

http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=52230#post52230

Eventually I might post a video of it, but probably not.

Also, I wasn't trying to overclock the card or anything like that, I don't do that stuff. have you taken up this issue with ATi? I suggest phoning them. If you have any reasonable proof that their drivers caused the problem then they should give you at least partial reimbursement.

Novakog
12-01-2003, 02:54 AM
Ya I will, I only realized this was due to the drivers when you guys posted about it, I had never read about it before. I always thought it was just the monitor's age (and my Dell warranty is expired)...

P.S. How long SHOULD a CRT monitor last?

3Dfx_Sage
12-01-2003, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by Novakog P.S. How long SHOULD a CRT monitor last? [/B] I have the very first model of color monitors that IBM ever put out (i think it's 12 inch, not sure) that only stopped working about two years ago. The Viewsonic monitor I bought to replace it (which i got about 5 years ago) started to crap out on me about a year ago and in August it finally got so bad (flickering yellow randomly) that I had to replace it. I now am the proud father... er... owner of a NEC 1860NX LCD screen :thumbsup: . I also bought 2 no-name CRTs for my dad about 3 years ago and one works fine, the other is dead.

elvis
12-01-2003, 03:45 AM
the unfortunate thing is you will need to PROVE that the card blew up your monitor. as you can imagine there are some pretty opportunistic individuals out there who will always try to bluff their way to free products ("hey ATi, you're driver blew up my dual 21" sony trinitron setup...").

as with any new driver, i strongly suggest you wait 2 weeks while every other person out there tries it out, and then have a go yourself only after reading user results on places like the guru3d and rage3d forums. these places are usually the first to report the good and bad features of new and beta drivers.

and as always, if your monitor makes the "funny noises" that you heard, get rid of the drivers quick smart!

CgFX
12-01-2003, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
his point was that the engineers were in California, but the article he linked trying to discredit me instead discredited himself because it very clearly stated that the hardware engineers were in Canada, as I originally stated.
If you don't know who ArtX is, where they were and are still located, and the fact that Tin Van Hook and his talented team are the group now within ATI that developed the 9700/9800 _in California_ then you are wasting my time.

Novakog
12-01-2003, 04:27 AM
Ya elvis, I pretty much can't prove it, so I'm stuck.

That's some good advice, although I didn't really have chance to get rid of the drivers quickly enough; it happened during startup and by the time my system has entirely booted up the monitor had completely died, so I'm screwed.

Now I'm running a good ol' Mag XJ810 (18 inch) from 1992! It's surprising how well it works. Oh well, the equivalent monitor (well, a little better actually) of what I had is only like $150 now, and I can run this XJ810 for a while (no problems as of yet).

3Dfx_Sage
12-01-2003, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by CgFX
If you don't know who ArtX is, where they were and are still located, and the fact that Tin Van Hook and his talented team are the group now within ATI that developed the 9700/9800 _in California_ then you are wasting my time. yes, i'm very aware of ArtX. ArtX is primarily responsible for the R300. but still most of the rest of ATi's engineering teams are in Canada.

You try to argue with every point I make no matter how weak. You put little no no thought into your arguments, or else you would realize how difficult it is to communicate with someone thats about 8 hours ahead or behind you and that communication is improved a LOT by moving to just 4 hours difference. You waste everyones time. I'm done arguing with you, go spew your garbage somewhere else because I'm not listening to you until you come up with something worth listening to instead of just trying to start fights. I don't see why you havn't been banned yet, at the forums I spend most of my time on you likely would have probably been banned or strongly encouraged to leave. I have great tolerance for people, and I respect someone who puts time into finding facts and developing their own opinion beased on those facts, and then defends their opinion. I do not tolerate people whose only goal is to make a pest of themselves.

3Dfx_Sage
12-01-2003, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by Novakog
Ya elvis, I pretty much can't prove it, so I'm stuck.

That's some good advice, although I didn't really have chance to get rid of the drivers quickly enough; it happened during startup and by the time my system has entirely booted up the monitor had completely died, so I'm screwed.

Now I'm running a good ol' Mag XJ810 (18 inch) from 1992! It's surprising how well it works. Oh well, the equivalent monitor (well, a little better actually) of what I had is only like $150 now, and I can run this XJ810 for a while (no problems as of yet).
you know, it couldn't hurt to call them. just be respectful and tell them that you believe that the drivers are respincible for killing your monitor. explain what happened and ask them if there's anything that can be done, remind them that you are a professional user and that a bad experience with them would be very upsetting. There should be a way of testing the monitor to determine if it is possible that their card killed it because of that specific issue. Be firm, but if you ever get rude or disresectful you won't get a thing out of them.

Wardile
12-01-2003, 05:30 AM
If thjis blowing up monitors aint no hoax then i am screwd.

I have the 9800 and run multiple displays with no problem in games or max nor maya.

Anycase as i wuz saying is, each time i change a setting for my card, the screen flashes on and off, and the scren makes weird sounds.... click clack crack cloe shhhhhh... then its back to normal,

Im not refering to resolution settings, im just changing trueform or antis-alaising ___ mind poor englsih.

So i think my screen is in danger.

The only prob i have is that the 9800 makes me wet. :P

3Dfx_Sage
12-01-2003, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by Wardile
If thjis blowing up monitors aint no hoax then i am screwd.

I have the 9800 and run multiple displays with no problem in games or max nor maya.

Anycase as i wuz saying is, each time i change a setting for my card, the screen flashes on and off, and the scren makes weird sounds.... click clack crack cloe shhhhhh... then its back to normal,

Im not refering to resolution settings, im just changing trueform or antis-alaising ___ mind poor englsih.

So i think my screen is in danger.

The only prob i have is that the 9800 makes me wet. :P

don't worry. only problem is with driver version 3.8, and the problem is only if you do not run dual display. If you have 3.8 then you do need to download 3.9, but do not worry, your monitors are safe.

CgFX
12-01-2003, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
I do not tolerate people whose only goal is to make a pest of themselves.
My only goal is to try and educate you. A simple "thank you" is all I ask in return for taking on such a challenging task.

Novakog
12-01-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by 3Dfx_Sage
you know, it couldn't hurt to call them. just be respectful and tell them that you believe that the drivers are respincible for killing your monitor. explain what happened and ask them if there's anything that can be done, remind them that you are a professional user and that a bad experience with them would be very upsetting. There should be a way of testing the monitor to determine if it is possible that their card killed it because of that specific issue. Be firm, but if you ever get rude or disresectful you won't get a thing out of them.

Ya, I still will call them, I just don't expect to get anything out of it. Anyway, it's not like I have a life. No, seriously.

As for testing the problem due to the drivers/card specifically, I don't really see how (although I am more than open to suggestions). The monitor just plain doesn't work anymore, on any graphics card with any drivers; it's gone.

3Dfx_Sage
12-01-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Novakog As for testing the problem due to the drivers/card specifically, I don't really see how (although I am more than open to suggestions). The monitor just plain doesn't work anymore, on any graphics card with any drivers; it's gone. [/B] it is possible to determine what component is bad, and knowing what has broken, you would then know if it was possible that the card caused it. Of course, you cant know for sure, and it's not something you yourself could do, but if they were really serious about making ammends then ATi could do it / have it done.

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