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View Full Version : Cut polygon flows without loosing curvature


telamon
11-24-2003, 11:56 PM
I would like to cut a band of subpatches (metanurbs) which is part of a detailed mesh. My willing is to keep the curvature of the edges perpendiculary to the polygon flow. Basically these new points should remain on these subpatched edges.

Example : I want to divide the band into three sections. My first idea was to isolate it, freeze the mesh and bandglue rows of polygons in a direction perpendiculary to the band. It is a bit tedious isn't it :D

leigh
11-25-2003, 02:01 AM
I'm not *entirely* sure I understand what you mean, but it sounds like something that Bandsaw would do.

kretin
11-25-2003, 02:14 AM
unfortunately none of the bandsaw or cut tools, that i know of, respect subD curvature... I'm hoping it isn't too long before this is addressed though. For now I think you'll have to do it manually.

RPG2006
11-25-2003, 02:27 AM
I think what Telamon is trying to say, is that he wants to bandsaw or add slices into his model without affecting the existing curves. ie refine the model, so that the the slices sit on the curve rather than create a visible seam, which you have to then adjust manually.

RPG2006
11-25-2003, 02:29 AM
I hope so to Kretin.

Per-Anders
11-25-2003, 02:29 AM
you need superflange (as in Mesh Surgery).

http://www.tools4d.com/MeshSurgery/flashclips/superflange.html
http://www.tools4d.com/MeshSurgery/flashclips/superflange2.html

however no plugin that i know of does superflange in lightwave. maybe i'll port it sometime.

just to clarify, superflange is in general flanging, however the core aim is to maintain curvature when working with subd models, obviously you can abuse it as a modeling tool in it's own right as it allows linear (normal based) flanging too. however when set to just 100% it continues a bspline shape over the surface, if combined with fuzzy smooth (catmull based smoothing algorythm) you can pretty well maintain curvature while adding in geometry.

isnowboard
11-25-2003, 02:54 AM
Very nice tools mdme_sadie.:thumbsup:

chikega
11-25-2003, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by mdme_sadie
you need superflange (as in Mesh Surgery).

however no plugin that i know of does superflange in lightwave. maybe i'll port it sometime.



mdme_sadie, I have both Lightwave and C4d and I have to say that Mesh Surgery is probably the most addictive modeling tools available - maybe by LW 9, we'll see your tools integrated into LW :applause: wishful thinking?

SplineGod
11-25-2003, 06:29 AM
The reason is that in LW your control surface is your polygonal object. When you bandsaw or knife you are cutting polygons which dont have curved surfaces. What I typically do is to use bandsaw because after it creates the cut it also selects the points for you. Ill use smooth scale with a numerical offset to bump the points out a tiny bit to get that curvature back.

Miyazaki
11-25-2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by mdme_sadie
you need superflange (as in Mesh Surgery).

http://www.tools4d.com/MeshSurgery/flashclips/superflange.html
http://www.tools4d.com/MeshSurgery/flashclips/superflange2.html

however no plugin that i know of does superflange in lightwave. maybe i'll port it sometime.

Yes, do it :buttrock:

telamon
11-25-2003, 11:31 AM
sorry for the lack of clarity of my thread, it was 1 AM when I typed it and I had too much coffee in my belly.

My technique worked quite fine. i.e.

- select the row of polygons that I wanted to cut,
- expand selection twice,
-cut and paste in another layer
-set the subdivision level to 3,
-freeze the object,
-applied bandglue several times to go back to the initial polygon density except for the band I wanted to cut initially,
-cut and paste the set back to the initial layer.
-merge points.

@splinegod. Your technique works fine as well. I often do that when I start modelling. But when the mesh is detailed, it becomes sometimes very tedious.

SplineGod
11-25-2003, 09:11 PM
Theres a couple of other things I do sometimes as well.
Ill use bandsaw to select bands of polys and then use smooth scale. On occasion Ill delete a group of polys and then select the points around the hole, make splines and then repatch. Its a quick way to restore the proper curvature to large areas sometimes. :)

comanche
11-25-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Theres a couple of other things I do sometimes as well.
Ill use bandsaw to select bands of polys and then use smooth scale. On occasion Ill delete a group of polys and then select the points around the hole, make splines and then repatch. Its a quick way to restore the proper curvature to large areas sometimes. :)

That's an interesting technique, Larry. Haven't thought of that yet. Thanks for sharing.

Andreas

telamon
11-25-2003, 09:30 PM
yes larry, another touch-down from you :bowdown:

That is exactly what I have thought of since my last post.

SplineGod
11-25-2003, 09:41 PM
Thanks guys, :)
I love the fact that you can mix splines with polys in that way easily within LW. Bandsaw is a great selection tool also when the cutting part is turned off. :)

telamon
11-25-2003, 09:44 PM
Bandsaw can do any other thing than selecting :surprised

I am kidding.

I mapped a shortcut to bandsaw (ctrl+y). I use it as often as smooth shift or spin quad :D

JoshD
11-26-2003, 07:25 PM
To expand on SplineGod's suggestion, you can use PointNormalMove on the points that Bandsaw selects to move all the points out on their normals. Then there is zero guess work or tedium in moving them all out.

You can get that from:

http://www.daz3d.com/products/lightwave.php

It is pretty useful for that sort of thing. (Forgive me for pointing you to our site, but hey, that's what the tools are for)

telamon
11-26-2003, 07:43 PM
Hi Josh... that is a pretty tip.

BTW... Congratulation to DAZ3D team. The work done on Victoria is absolutely amazing albeit I find the character too dense for any use in LW.

RPG2006
11-26-2003, 08:02 PM
Just like to thank you aswell Josh. Nice one!:thumbsup:

JoshD
11-26-2003, 08:17 PM
hey, thanks. I too find Victoria too dense to work with, but that's Poser for you! Without sub-D all we could do to get more life-like results was to make her high res. That faceting is a pain!

You may have heard that we are developing our own software to negate our dependence on Poser, though. I can't release any info as to what it will support mesh-wise, but my personal opinion is that if we don't support more than just polys then our figures will be limited.

Also, we do have lo-res versions of some of our figures and I hope we will begin releasing more lo-res figures in the future. We model in lower res on occasion and then res them up to work with Poser.

telamon
11-26-2003, 08:21 PM
I understand you, Poser actually deserves the quality of your models.

Is it among your plans to make any free / commercial tutorial on how your best products are modelled :drool:

JoshD
11-26-2003, 09:27 PM
Wow, we never thought about tutorials...I'll have to bring that up.

I wasn't involved with Victoria 1 or 2, but got to be involved with Victoria 3. Our head modeler (meaning the person who is our main modeler, not that he models the head exclusively) is an incredible polygonal modeler. I've never met any better. Plus, he illustrated anatomy books for years and years, so he knows human anatomy better than most as well.

The real challenge with our figures, of course, is that we are trying to make one figure to meet every single user's needs. That is the reason for all the morphs to change her appearance drastically.

telamon
11-26-2003, 09:47 PM
I would be very interested in any DVD or HTML file showing how you model hair and body as a whole, how you adress cloth wrinkles and so on...

The making of Victoria :beer:

JoshD
11-26-2003, 11:53 PM
Well, regardless of how many cool tools there are in LW, there are times when making polygonal hair or wrinkles in clothing is faster and more appropriate than using something like Sasquatch or MD. I'll bring this up...

We appreciate your kind words about our work. I think sometimes it's hard to appreciate work that a company does because it's common to see the company as this faceless entity, when in reality the ones who work on something are just a few artists working together to get something out to pay their bills. :) "Something" being a piece of art they put their all into developing.

telamon
11-27-2003, 12:21 AM
I agree with you. I prefer polygon hair animated with MD. It offers much more flexibility and control during animation than sasquatch IMO.

Concerning company work or art work. I have no personnal opinion. I find your model are perfect in stance pose and are actual masterpieces comparable and sometimes better than what famous CG artists expose in their gallery. The main problem I see in your models is that they are done for Poser which is poorly flexible in terms of rigging and animation (joint compensation is too complicated and too limited). Due to their high level of detail they cannot be easily rigged in more professional packages like LW.

SplineGod
11-27-2003, 12:44 AM
Another option I havent had a chance to fully explore is to create a lower rez version of a high rez mesh, rig and animate it and then MDScan it and use it along with MDMeta plug to animate/deform a higher rez mesh. :)

telamon
11-27-2003, 12:47 AM
I found much better and much more interesting: doing my mesh myself and rig it. Store my mesh in a library and when I need it for a project copy and paste the file in my project folder :beer:

JoshD
11-27-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Another option I havent had a chance to fully explore is to create a lower rez version of a high rez mesh, rig and animate it and then MDScan it and use it along with MDMeta plug to animate/deform a higher rez mesh. :)

Oh yeah. I haven't done that yet, but I hear that works pretty well to some extent. I still would prefer our models be around 10 - 15,000 polys and then subD it at render. Maybe we'll end up doing that someday...

JoshD
11-27-2003, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by telamon
I agree with you. I prefer polygon hair animated with MD. It offers much more flexibility and control during animation than sasquatch IMO.

Concerning company work or art work. I have no personnal opinion. I find your model are perfect in stance pose and are actual masterpieces comparable and sometimes better than what famous CG artists expose in their gallery. The main problem I see in your models is that they are done for Poser which is poorly flexible in terms of rigging and animation (joint compensation is too complicated and too limited). Due to their high level of detail they cannot be easily rigged in more professional packages like LW.

I do like the control of polygon hair but Sasquatch can render so nice! Plus, you can do MD on the splines, which is really cool.

Rigging isn't much fun in Poser. You wouldn't believe the work we have to do to get good joints. And then come up with morphs to correct poor bending after the joints are as good as we can get them. Any joints system will require morphs like that to some extent, but there are better ways to do joints than the current Poser way.

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