Pulling my hair out over MetaEffectors

[chikega]

Hi Carm3d,

I really enjoyed your SSS effects using G2 on the Worley forum. Nice backlit ears. You'll have to show me how you went about that sometime.

I'm new to messiah as well. So, I'm not sure if I'm going to be much help ... but here goes...

The documentation is a bit sparse ... this is all I could find in the manual after using the Search function:

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"You can use MetaEffector fields in a variety of ways, and in fact many new features are being planned that will utilize this tool as well. Perhaps the most common use for MetaEffectors is to redefine the weight of a particular bone. Each bone in a Skeleton can have it's own MetaEffector assigned to it, or it can use it's default weights. Bones with different weight inputs (either MetaEffectors or default) can be combined in a single Skeleton.

Weight (pulldown): To set a MetaEffector as the Weight of a Bone select the desired MetaEffector from this pulldown list. Repeat this process for each MetaEffector you wish to assign to each of your bones.

Invert Weights: Turn this on to invert the influence of the Effector's field."
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I'm sure you've read the above excerpt from the manual. I've obtained additional information through Joe Cosman's CD's, Grzesiekj Face rig tutorial, and also through some experimentation:

To assign a Metaeffector (Tool) to a mesh, you must first select the Metaeffector (Tool) group and then Ctl click the mesh you want to affect (this is one of those not-so-obvious subtleties)

Under this Metaeffector (Tool), you can have many Metaeffector_effectors using the "Add Effector" button.

I take it you've assigned which bones will use which Metaeffector (Tool) group through the Weight drop down list ...

Under Setup mode, click on the bone that you want the Metaeffector to affect on the list. Then go down to the Bone block.
You'll see a drop down list called Weight - click on it and scroll down to the Metaeffector (Tool) group that you want to use ... I think this is important. You're not selecting the individual effectors but the group.

Anyway, I'm not the shiniest penny on the pile ... so if any gurus can shed more light on this, us newbies would appreciate it.

:)

[Panikos]

PuppetMaster :thumbsup:

[v2n]

You don't need weight at all in messiah to move your character mouth :p

Instead draw some bones around his mouth to isolate those poly.
Use "muscle bones" + "MotionBlender" to control his mouth.

Very quick and easy to do when you know how too ;)

But if you want to use weight, you should read this tutorial :


http://www.3dluvr.com/jonkajtys/messiah_rig/index.htm

[dfaris]

Hey Carm,

I remember you from the old AM days. Have you see Joe Cosman's tuts? If not I would say get them it explains lots of stuff for you and since he came from AM also it works right into how you use to setup rigs in AM. once you see it you will understand what I'm saying. Plus you can join the messiah irc chat lots of folks in there and the guys from PMG stop in all the time and help out.

[chikega]

Originally posted by dfaris
Hey Carm,

I remember you from the old AM days. Have you see Joe Cosman's tuts? If not I would say get them it explains lots of stuff for you and since he came from AM also it works right into how you use to setup rigs in AM. once you see it you will understand what I'm saying. Plus you can join the messiah irc chat lots of folks in there and the guys from PMG stop in all the time and help out.

Ahhh ... yes ... the fan setups were (are) quite popular with the AM crowd:)

[Carm3D]

Thanks everyone.. Whew.. I slept in late.. I was up late.

I know how to assign MEs to a bone, etc.. The problem was it seemed only one ME group was working at a time..

Another problem was bones that do not use weights were pulling on areas that I assigned to a weighted bone... Muy frustrating.

I've never used puppet master.. What is it?
I'll look it up in the (chortle) manual.

I tried the route of using muscle bones around her mouth.. It looked awful, and it looked like more work than was necessary.

[dfaris]

Originally posted by Carm3D
Thanks everyone.. Whew.. I slept in late.. I was up late.

I know how to assign MEs to a bone, etc.. The problem was it seemed only one ME group was working at a time..

Another problem was bones that do not use weights were pulling on areas that I assigned to a weighted bone... Muy frustrating.

I've never used puppet master.. What is it?
I'll look it up in the (chortle) manual.

Forget about weights You dont need them with messiah.

[Carm3D]

I'll meet you in the Messiah IRC room if you see this.

[Panikos]

PuppetMaster is an effect that allows splitting your character into sections (clusters) and mix bones (that influence different parts) into any hierarchy.

For facial animation, PuppetMaster is wonderful cause the anatomy of the face and the way bones and muscles mix, plus the gathering of many polys in such a small space is a nightmare to control using plain bones, muscles and metaeffectors.

However, your geometry, and wise splitting of sections is a necessity here.

Good luck
;)

[Carm3D]

Well you know the ol' saying... Fifth time is the charm.

I took a different approach.. I opened the mouth a bit in modeler and made seven fan bones for the jaw, adding anchor bones around the lips (attatched to the fans), and connected them with muscle bones. Works pretty good.

No MetaEffectors used.

http://www.carm3d.net/MouthRig.GIF

[mg3d]

ah..you've seen the light :)
alot of people start off thinking that they absolutely need metaEffectors to get proper deformations in their objects, when the truth is...it's all about bone placement. messiah's bones are probably the most intuitive bones in any application.

of course this isn't the case if you have a robot character (or anything that needs rigid binding) Then you have the option of using ME's or nulls, or just parenting separate objects.

Carm,
I'm gald you resolved your problem. I know things seems frustrating at times, but just goes to show you that pmG's term "Learn It Once, Use It Often" is totatlly true.

:beer:
-mG

[Carm3D]

How about "Powerful Stuff.. But Not for the Faint of Heart."

Not everyone has the intestinal fortitude to rig a complex body part 5 times over. I nearly gave up on it myself.

[Sil3]

Originally posted by Carm3D
How about "Powerful Stuff.. But Not for the Faint of Heart."

Not everyone has the intestinal fortitude to rig a complex body part 5 times over. I nearly gave up on it myself.


3D is not for the faint of heart, or is it ;)

[Carm3D]

Well said, my sub-divided friend.

[tjnyc]

Originally posted by Carm3D
Well you know the ol' saying... Fifth time is the charm.

I took a different approach.. I opened the mouth a bit in modeler and made seven fan bones for the jaw, adding anchor bones around the lips (attatched to the fans), and connected them with muscle bones. Works pretty good.

No MetaEffectors used.

http://www.carm3d.net/MouthRig.GIF

Carm, it's looking good, I like your setup. The only thing I think you need is to split the cheek bone and maybe add a support bone there so you can make the cheek recedes inward when the mouth opens.

Cheers,

[Carm3D]

Oh, I was gonna do that via a morph map... -after I upgrade to v4.x. I'm still on 3.3.

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