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jonadb
04-13-2012, 07:52 AM
During beta I created a ribbon to make clear how I'd like it to be, it is now available on Scriptspot. This wil not fit everyone since it is just how I want it to be, but overall I think it's an improvement :) Optional fancy color scheme included as well, enjoy!

Features:



compact pro layout
stable in layout when switching between subobj modes
better grouping of tools
less clicking due to smarter use of buttons
layout as pixel perfect as possible
Made as an extension, so it can be added to any existing ribbon
collapses logically on smaller screen
Original tooltips are still available
Optional new color scheme included.

Files and install instructions:
http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/proribbon

(right-click->view image to see the whole thing)

http://www.jdbgraphics.nl/clients/ribbon_overview.jpg

spacefrog
04-13-2012, 07:57 AM
Thanks big time for this ...
I'm so sick from looking at the standard ribbon ....

jedie
04-13-2012, 08:06 AM
Nice...

I would like to have ribbons which only contains stuff that aren't available in the command panel...

cecofuli
04-13-2012, 08:27 AM
Nice...

I would like to have ribbons which only contains stuff that aren't available in the command panel...

+1 for me!!!

CHRiTTeR
04-13-2012, 09:09 AM
and I would like most of the ribbon tools inside the command panel... especially the modeling stuff.

jedie
04-13-2012, 09:17 AM
and I would like most of the ribbon tools inside the command panel... especially the modeling stuff.
+1 :thumbsup:

vote here: http://3dsmaxfeedback.autodesk.com/forums/80695-publicgeneralfeaturerequests/suggestions/1488775-ribbon-interface-or-command-panel-one-should-go-a

CHRiTTeR
04-13-2012, 09:25 AM
+1 :thumbsup:

vote here: http://3dsmaxfeedback.autodesk.com/forums/80695-publicgeneralfeaturerequests/suggestions/1488775-ribbon-interface-or-command-panel-one-should-go-a

I dont agree with the 'dispose of the command panel' proposition done there...
As i think its one of those things that are essential to max. Remove it and i might aswell start learning another app. I like the command panel. Just integrate ribbon stuff in it. For example put the graphite modeling tools in the poly modeling modifier.

jedie
04-13-2012, 09:52 AM
I like the command panel. Just integrate ribbon stuff in it. For example put the graphite modeling tools in the poly modeling modifier.
Exactly what would be my desired solution.

jonadb
04-13-2012, 10:01 AM
The commandpanel is fine for a lot of things but not for a large set of complex modeling tools.

The editable poly interface for example is a real mess, sure it's all in our muscle memory and we can use it without thinking but when you have a closer look at you'll notice it's actually not that great.

Now the current ribbon is mess as well imho, but atleast it is flexible and can be molded into any form or shape.

edit:

look this is the original polyboost UI, which became Graphite:

http://www.cgplusplus.com/online-reference/polyboost-en/source/images/pbinterface.jpg

Do you really want all that to be added to the edit-poly CP interface? :)

jedie
04-13-2012, 10:23 AM
btw. i have download the trial... I wondering a little bit to see some old stuff under \3rdParty\ e.g.:

dotNetFramework v2
Visual C++ 2005, 2008

which part of max use this?

jedie
04-13-2012, 10:37 AM
The commandpanel is fine for a lot of things but not for a large set of complex modeling tools.
The problem is: They missed to update/renew the Command panel a long time ago... IMHO it was easier to add the ribbon stuff instead of change the CP. And now we have two things for simmilar

Either, the CP needs a update: e.g. You find buttons in different position in Editable Mesh/Poly, all Stuff should be unified... Some tools exist only in Editable Poly and not in Editable Mesh... (It's only a example and i simple convert a mesh into poly...)

spacefrog
04-13-2012, 10:50 AM
The commandpanel is fine for a lot of things but not for a large set of complex modeling tools.

The editable poly interface for example is a real mess, sure it's all in our muscle memory and we can use it without thinking but when you have a closer look at you'll notice it's actually not that great.

Now the current ribbon is mess as well imho, but atleast it is flexible and can be molded into any form or shape.

edit:

look this is the original polyboost UI, which became Graphite:

http://www.cgplusplus.com/online-reference/polyboost-en/source/images/pbinterface.jpg

Do you really want all that to be added to the edit-poly CP interface? :)


I prefer the old PB interface over the the Graphite/Ribbon Interface 100:1
I still work in 2009 quite often, and am lightyears faster with polyboost there, even with it's archaic interface
At least you CAN remember button locations faster -> thats no compare to the overcluttered blinkiny/shiny Ribbon disaster ...

CHRiTTeR
04-13-2012, 10:58 AM
The commandpanel is fine for a lot of things but not for a large set of complex modeling tools.

The editable poly interface for example is a real mess, sure it's all in our muscle memory and we can use it without thinking but when you have a closer look at you'll notice it's actually not that great.

Now the current ribbon is mess as well imho, but atleast it is flexible and can be molded into any form or shape.

edit:

look this is the original polyboost UI, which became Graphite:

http://www.cgplusplus.com/online-reference/polyboost-en/source/images/pbinterface.jpg

Do you really want all that to be added to the edit-poly CP interface? :)

Sure, why not.

Funny enough if you compare that screenshot of polyboost to the ribbon, i dont find it to be that much different. Basicly the philosophy behind the ribbon is the same; cram as much tools as you can togetter on the screen. Not to mention how annoyingly slow it refreshes and flickers all the time.
I even find the polyboost UI to be actually better than the ribbon, you can place it anywhere on the screen and it responds fast.

I dont think the command panel is a mess at all, especially not compared to the ribbon. Editable poly is quite straight forward and has a logical layout which is much better organised.They didnt try to put everything at once available on the screen, which is not a problem because you can easily scroll up or down or adjust its width (the amount of columns) if desired.

Theres also a reason why most graphic programs put such tools on the side of the screen. It simply works better.

Not to say i dont appreciate your effort on offering an alternative layout for the ribbon, it is much appreciated, but it doesnt change my opinion on the idea behind the ribbon.

moulder6
04-13-2012, 11:18 AM
Great job, Johnny!

You know that a lot of people are biased coz of the way the ribbon was put together and introduced back in the days. Ur interpretation + the speed improvements they pulled out for 2013 makes the whole thing great and really useful!

You know i am not a fan of the horizontal layout, yet urs is light years ahead compared to the one that ships with max (and some others ;) ).

HGLR
04-13-2012, 11:33 AM
Thanks Jon :)

sandykoufax
04-13-2012, 11:59 AM
Thank you so much! :) :thumbsup:

Diffus3d
04-13-2012, 12:23 PM
Do you really want all that to be added to the edit-poly CP interface? :)

I really do. I'd much rather read a condensed chunk of info such as polyboost than a bunch of (mostly) meaningless icons that just take up space. I know... I'm in for a rough ride in the years ahead it's quite obvious.

That being said I do like your ribbon quite a bit, most notably because of the static and predictable location of the text next to the icons.

The ribbon is a great idea for anyone who wants it though. I just think we can have both. (I like to imagine the attribute editor in maya being all icons. Or even better pressing spacebar and having 500 icons you have to mouse over come up, would totally defeat the point.) I feel the same with the command panel, it needs to be simple and icon free. I can read a book faster than scan for some weird icons, imho. But I have to use the ribbon for some really essentail modeling tools and it just slows me down. I really hate when the mouse over tool tip for the graphite tools won't go away and covers my screen.

I think we can have both, but yours is the best ribbon I've seen. Very nice.

jonadb
04-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Thx all!

I think easy per panel customization would be the way to go, a few checkbox that:

-hide/show text
-hide/show icons
-hide/show tooltips
-icon/text size adjustment

Some want labels, other only icons.. big, small.. etc. Easy user customization is key here.

And if that is done per panel, you can adjust it to your personal skills. Once you've mastered the select functions you can hide their labels for example, freeing up space for more. Not up to speed with the loops&flow tools? just enable labels and tooltips and start learning on the job.

Once you've mastered them all you've got a very compact and speedy ribbon, and while learning you get all the help available..

Simpatico
04-13-2012, 02:27 PM
Have you ever used Revit or Inventor? Both use a ribbon interface, and in both it's really, really nice. Neither has any of the ribbon problems that Max has.

The ribbon in Max is confusing. No, that's not accurate. It's more like "super-confusing". It's also ugly, poorly organized, inscrutable.

And that's weird, it's like the people who created the ribbon in Max have never even seen Revit or Inventor. Does that make any sense at all? It's all Autodesk stuff, right? How can they get the ribbon so right in Revit and Inventor, and so wrong in Max?

As for the command panel, I have to constantly open and close sections, scroll up and down just to find the command I need, etc. Terrible. Ridiculous. The only thing worse than the command panel in Max is - the ribbon in Max.

Check out Revit or Inventor - beautiful!

Grim Beefer
04-13-2012, 11:01 PM
Theres also a reason why most graphic programs put such tools on the side of the screen. It simply works better.


This is actually a pretty good point. If I place my hand on my mouse and move cardinally north to south, imagining a giant compass on the surface of my monitor, and then east to west, it's obvious to me that going up and down requires more effort and control. After considering the aggregated clicks throughout the years, I can't help but feel as though a vertically oriented UI is probably not the best in the long run.

coldside-digital
04-14-2012, 02:24 AM
Probably a stupid question considering the title and all, but I assume this won't work for 2012?

jonadb
04-14-2012, 07:33 AM
Probably a stupid question considering the title and all, but I assume this won't work for 2012?

It should just work for 2012 as well, if not try the attached file. Only difference is you have to install it in the "C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2012\UI\Ribbon\Extensions" folder.

coldside-digital
04-14-2012, 09:08 AM
Just tried the 2013 version and it seems to be working fine, but I have downloaded the version you uploaded here too just in case any issues do show up.

Thanks so much for this, much better layout. I opened the Customize Ribbon dialogue a couple of times, but gave up each time in frustration. Really isn't the best way to customize the tabs.

Sorry to pester, but any chance of the ProColors for 2012? Tried them in the 2013 demo and really like them :) or even just let me know what to change.

:beer:

Daniel.

jonadb
04-14-2012, 09:16 AM
Sorry to pester, but any chance of the ProColors for 2012?


Here you go! :)

coldside-digital
04-14-2012, 09:21 AM
Perfect, thanks!

jonadb
04-14-2012, 09:24 AM
And here's a file for the quad menu color, it makes the 'last used item' stand out instead of making it looked disabled, small thing but really makes a difference. Same file works for both 2012 and 2013.

Load it via CUI->quadpanel tab -> advanced options -> use 'load' button on the top left, then save it.

Rockin
04-14-2012, 04:39 PM
As more and more tools are bound to be added to the modeling workflow, I think that an adaptive and customizable solution is really needed. The current command panel is far too limited in these regards.

However, the fact that the current ribbon implementation is slow and that there is this UI fragmentation and duplication of items I think is what puts a lot of people off. Vertical vs. horizontal layout is another valid issue, but at least with the ribbon you may actually choose which you prefer.

Thanks for uploading this Jonathan, I think this is the direction the ribbon should be taking (considering the bigger picture of UI redesign). However, no-one can know for sure until they give it a go.

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