Mental Ray - Shaders

[DBKenn]

Hello, I'm kind of new to rendering. My renderings always suc because I don't know what I'm actually doing, lol. I've been trying to improve this past month reading about light and what not. I'm a pretty good modeler.

All I do is model cars and I'd have to say I'm 6.9-7.5 in the skills department still a long way to go but I can honestly say my cars look like cars :buttrock:and not as lumpy as when I first started. :thumbsup:

I really want to learn how to render realistically and I want to do it with MR. I want to give those vray users a run for their money. So if you give could give me pointers it would be cool.

Asphalt Rendering.

Again I really don't know what I'm doing here so... lol Here is something I render last night. I think it looks cool. Not the best but its a start. It looks rough and dry, which is what i was kind of going for. I use 3 point lighting but I really didn't spend a lot o time doing so. Each light has different intensities, as I read real world has to define the form. Mr Area Spot.

I use Arch & Design Mats and put an asphalt text in the diffuse and gloss, again dopn't know what I'm doing :). Just thought it made sense. Turned the roughness up, made sense to do so. Turned on the Amb Occu. Turned on Hightlights + FG to get rid of the reflections ummm... its dirt lol lol so... it sounds correct to me. Sample rate is 1/4-16. FG on but on Draft preset. Bump map is at 3 or 2. Thats is.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3319/test00psbb9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I believe I know how to fix those jagged shadows edges but I don't understand why its shaper in the center but blurry on the edges. I'm guessing it because of the Area sample rate which is 5x5, Disc.

The texture is pretty lo res but its coo. I did Photoshop it a bit with the curves because it was bit dark but only a bit.

Again it look kind of real to me because its just look harsh and bone dirt. Its not smooth looking.

[JeffPatton]

I've added instructions on creating custom A&D presets to my blog for those that are interested.

http://jeffpatton.net/blog-images/A_01.jpg

[tryhard]

Hi Jeff,

how could you do something like that when the officials of autodesk allways pretend that it´s not possible. That´s not fair :bounce:

And now the serious part of my message:
:thumbsup: that´s what a lot of people have asked for!

Thanks a lot

Great work as allways

[TTYO]

Hey the dlo file for geolights is not working.... I am using Max 9 32 bit...

[maxplugins]

Hey the dlo file for geolights is not working.... I am using Max 9 32 bit...

You need this one:
http://www.maxplugins.de/r9_files/pavel/mrGeomShaderObject_max9.zip

Dave

[TTYO]

hey how come the geolight does not take the mapping or colors of the mesh

[Mhyrdin]

Have you put this color in the shader Light_point you've affected to the omni ?

[thorsten hartmann]

Hi Guys,

my first post on this forum....

i had many problems with arch&design fast interpolate function, Red, Yellow, Blue Black in all colors what you want. Some error are fixed in Max9 Servcie Pack 1, other Problem are not fixed, but it gives solutions.

a) Transparency+BitMap+Fast Interpolate: solution -> don´t use a Bit map in tranparency color, only in cutout slot.
b) selfreflection + fast interpolate: is fixed in service pack 1
c) Hair+Transparency+Fast interpolate: is fixed in service pack 1

http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/userpix/5_if_error_1.jpg

german thread: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?p=2613#2613

mfg
hot chip

[TnB]

those paint shaders in the blog are too good !can u post some settings or the mat. file??

[demoniorojo]

the problem is that bump mapping with mr texture shaders dont´t work....if I use a standard texture like noise or celular the bump works fine,but if I connect a texture shader like whirly,the bump mapping looks crazy...1st picture,correct bump with celular, 2nd pict,wrong bump with whirly
http://mymentalray.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=132&d=1176122860 http://mymentalray.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=133&d=1176122901 (http://mymentalray.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=133&d=1176122901)
please help :eek: I don´t know how to resolve them

Thank in advance:thumbsup:

[Fab7000]

Hi Jeff,

As always you deliver superb shaders to the Mental Ray community. Thanks.

I can't seen to get the microscope shader to work, theres no "hair" when I render. Is that because I gotta model or use a hair plugin, or am I missing something,

Once again,
Thanks a lot for a splendid forum,

Fab

[XenObuS]

I've tested and I've not a probleme with shader "arch and design" and bump cellular.
http://www.infograph-tech.com/3dscool/testbump.jpg

[demoniorojo]

the problem is with all third part textures ,the max textures like celular noise waves...work great, if I use third part textures(whirly,voronoy,and similars...) the resut is the second pict..

[JeffPatton]

theres no "hair" when I render. Is that because I gotta model or use a hair plugin, or am I missing somethingThe hairs aren't part of the material. Just add the hair modifier to you mesh and of course just apply the electron microscope material to the hair as well.

those paint shaders in the blog are too good !can u post some settings or the mat. file??Thanks. I'll try to post more info on those in the not too distant future. :thumbsup:

[TnB]

thanks! help is very much appreciated,and if possible can someone answer me this question,
does mr sun &sky work with other map for the environement besides the mr_sky environememt??
cuz if i use other map ,like a hdri,the reflections look strange ,they change colour,and ive tryed changing settings for the logarithmic exp control,used mia_esp simple and sll the same..
thanks!!

[thorsten hartmann]

Hi Guys,

a little african collection.... :)

german thread: african collection / download .mat File: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=449

english thread: http://mymentalray.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1513#post1513

http://www.infinity-vision.de/service/afro_titel.JPG

mfg
hot chip

[JasperCG]

Hey all, I am an average mental ray user, but don't know much about the programming of shaders and such. I have been reading the newest 3D World Magazine and in there it mentions a site (www.binaryalchemy.de) that has shaders. They are for Maya and XSI.

Is mental ray compatible all the way across? Could I use the shader collection on the above site in 3ds max? Would I need to change anything? If so, can someone help me with that?

Thanks

[maxplugins]

All of the Binary Alchemy shaders are available for Max. You need to download the shader pack from the Binary Alchemy site, and then get the Include files for Max. Links to the shader pack and the include files can be found here:
http://www.maxplugins.de/mentalray.php?search=holger&sort=Author

Dave

[JasperCG]

Dave,

Thanks for the info. I have downloaded that stuff and then I found the *.mi files and the *.dll files. Two questions.

1. Where do I put them?
2. How do I get them into max to use them - the maya instructions talk about pasting something into a rc something file.

thanks again

[maxplugins]

To use the shaders in Max, you need to put the DLL file in the 'mentalray\shaders_autoload\shaders' folder, and put the Include file in your 'mentalray\shaders_autoload\include folder'. The next time you start Max, they should be in the list of installed shaders.

That's all there is to it. You don't need to follow the Maya instructions.

Dave

[rdg]

Hi,

I just wanted to ask if you would like to see a arch+design(mi) preset in my psd2mat tool?
I am abot to rewrite some parts of the tool and I am currently collecting material types I plan to support.

I must admit I totaly forgot about this *new* material ....

Georg

[kaizerscythe]

@thorsten hartmann: would you mind to give us alternate download links other than german mental ray forum? i`ve registered there and try to download it, but after +/-40-50% the download always stopped, i`ve tryed it for 30 times now but still no luck, and you have so much file to download. Please give us alternate link because i want to learn the material setup from your scene. Thanks before.

[thorsten hartmann]

hi kaizerscythe,

i am ask the admin for the problem.

mfg
hot chip

[rebolt]

I am working on a water scene and trying to make the shader something similar to this:

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/642/refwaterql2.jpg

How we can achiece this type of realistic water shader ? I have tried Ocean lume but not happy with the output.

[loran]

Here is a quick and dirty test with Arch&Design mat.
choose water preset and adjusted glossiness

max9 file (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/seascape.max)
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/seascape.jpg

[Ehren]

Has anyone used the mrGeometryShader to create geometry other then for hair or a light. I imagine one could use it to make a feather shader for a bird. I'm thinking of perhaps vegitation like shrubs for a terrain.

Thanks

[rebolt]

Thanks loran but could your explain it too. Actually i am using max 8 and i cannot be able to open the file :(

[loran]

I used A&D mat. and those are Max9 mat.the Water Preset contain an ocean lume shader for bump. I used Physical Sky too and this is a max9 functiun.

To redo this in max8, you can use a DGS mat, for blurry reflections, and ocean Lume for bump.

[rebolt]

Great thanks Loran :thumbsup:. It was very useful. What type of lightining you used for this scene to get that yellowish tint on ocean floor ? I am using MR spotlight with yellow color but its actually coming somewhat whiteish look on the ocean.

[F3LIC3]

You also have to change the environment to something blueish, because the ocean will reflect it.
In lorans example the sun was just before sunset, so the sky has also a red-yellow tint in the direction of the sun.

[RJI]

file:///C:/Dokumente%20und%20Einstellungen/Administrator/Eigene%20Dateien/Eigene%20Bilder/00big2.jpg

hi all
i found this Image, and this buildings around are interesting. Can somebody tell me, how to create this kind of material in mental ray?
I use 3 DS MAX 9

[RJI]

this Image i mean http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon11.gif:
http://dva3.ru/pictures/vis/ext/mebel/00big.jpg


the abstrakt buildings around, how can i create those material in Mental ray?

[demoniorojo]

mmmh...I think that the abstrakt buildings could be created using low opacity with some falloff materials with contours shaders...and some noise in the difuse channel...It´s only an idea,but I´ve seen similar results using this tec,I hope help you..:)

[JeffPatton]

how can i create those material in Mental ray?I've attached a few example materials (Max9 file) that if nothing else, may make a good starting point.

[RJI]

WOW, AMAZING!!!http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

thanks JEF, youre the best, and thanks for all who was trying.

PS: sorry for my bad english

[TwiiK]

I'm new to the shader game and you've been of great help to me, Jeff. I've deconstructed, reconstructed and tried to duplicate like every shader on your homepage and it has given me alot more insight into shaders.

But there's one thing I really don't understand at the moment. :P

I downloaded your skin/alien skin shader and opened it in max. I got this error:

"Missing Dlls

Filename: XDof.dlv Class:XDof SuperClass: 0x1090

Dll Description: XDof 2.0 (Evasion 3D) - Depth of Field Effect"

, but I couldn't find anything with DOF in the scene so I rendered it out anyway and got this:
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/125/alienskinhy1.th.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alienskinhy1.jpg)

I thought that looked more or less the same as the one on your site so I was happy. :P

Then I merged my male bust into the scene and scaled it up to about the same size as your model and rendered again. The bump map was suddenly 10 times larger and he looked like a burn victim.

Here I rendered parts of your model with my model to show you:
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4712/burnvictimhi6.th.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=burnvictimhi6.jpg)

They both have the same material applied. I don't understand a thing. Does it have anything to do with the missing dll? I'm guessing it's something obvious so rather than spending 10 hours debugging it I'll just ask here. :P

Thanks in advance.

[JeffPatton]

The xdof message won't affect the scene in any way. X-DOF is a plugin I have for creating DOF effects. Evidently I was using it on this scene at some point and either I forgot to remove the effect, or after I deleted it from the scene, the plugin didn't properly remove all traces of itself.

The problem your having with your scene is because you scaled the mesh. This is a common issue in 3dsmax and to work around it you shouldn't directly scale your meshes by using the "select and uniform scale" button on the toolbar. Instead, apply a xform modifier to your mesh and increase/decrease the scale the gizmo of that xform modifier. Attached an example render showing the effect.

[TwiiK]

Ahh, I thought it might have been something like that.

Thanks alot. :)

[Smish Smash]

Hi

Does any one know if the lm 2dmv shader works in max9 and if so how to use it.



Any info would be really apppreciated
Thanks in advance.

[lehthanis]

Anybody got any good ideas for a nice A&D Rusted metal material? Like part brushed metal and part rust with a negative bump (or displace)...I tried basing one off the brushed metal template but every result was horrid.

[rebolt]

Hey actually i have just started using MR physical sky so don't have much experience with this. Could anyone tell me as we put the physical sky under environment panel and its gonna render out. If we want want to put different environment map and render it then how we can do it while physical sky enabled ?

[dave-3d]

There is an option in the Sky material to use a bitmap, this is actually blended with the Sky gradients.

And you will need to boost the RGB value of your bitmap (try about 20) as the Sky is much lighter (relatively).

Dave

[veLDz4]

hi to ya all! best thread ever. im trying to achieve smthng like wet concrete in rainy situation with all the ripples and stuff (for the ground) in MR ofcourse

[loran]

Do you guys, know where I can find the file and tutorial on how to use Object Light (GeomshaderObject?)
thx

[havokzprodigy]

Do you guys, know where I can find the file and tutorial on how to use Object Light (GeomshaderObject?)
thx

I'm in desperate need of the same thing.
Anybody have a link?

[JeffPatton]

I dunno if it will be useful to you guys or not, but I put a video of a geolight setup here:
http://www.vizdepot.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4468&page=2&pp=15
It just shows a very basic setup for using a mesh as a light source, nothing fancy at all.

[3DMadness]

Anybody got any good ideas for a nice A&D Rusted metal material? Like part brushed metal and part rust with a negative bump (or displace)...I tried basing one off the brushed metal template but every result was horrid.
The templates is a good starting point, you just have to remember that in the brushed metal you need a UVW Map, or change the Reflection color to another procedural map with a Object XYZ coordinate. Also put some environment map, metal objects need some environment to reflect. Try to explore the template and understand how it works, and don't forge to read the great help Zap wrote about the Arch & Design Material just pressing F1. :D

[MasterZap]

Frankly, for rust, I'd involve a blend material between two different A&D materials... not unlike what I did to the muddy car animation (http://www.z4p.com/ad/muddy-car.mov)

/Z

[robertsonowen]

Hi all,

I know this has already been covered, but I've come across the SSS with multi/sub object 'bug' and the workaround that jeff posted required a hacked/modified subsurface.mi shader file and the link no longer works... also there was an image there that shows the setup used... also not working... just wondering if someone could help me out here?

Many thanks

Owen

[JeffPatton]

Hi Owen,

What version of 3dsmax are you running? If you're using Max8 or 9, that edited file won't help anyway. However, if you're still using Max7.5 then let me know and I'll add the files back to my server for you.

Jeff

[robertsonowen]

hey jeff,

cheers for getting back to me on this,
unfortunatley i'm using max8.... so no dice there then :(
are there any possible workarounds in max8 that you know of?

thanks v.much for your help ^^

Owen

[maxplugins]

I've just finished writing a plugin front-end for Francescas ctrl_Colors shader set. It makes it a lot easier to understand all of the shader settings, and can be applied like any other texture map in Max 8 or 9.

It comes with the shader DLL and an adapted Include file so that only the plugin versions of the shaders show up in the list of textures.

The plugin contains all of the 11 different shaders: color_balance, color_correction, color_compose, color_keyer, color_picker, color_smoothranges, color_math and 4 shaders for color conversions.

You can download it here: http://www.maxplugins.de/r9_files/maxplugins/ctrl_colors_max.zip
If anyone finds any bugs, let me know...

Dave

[Spacelord]

The plugin contains all of the 11 different shaders: color_balance, color_correction, color_compose, color_keyer, color_picker, color_smoothranges, color_math and 4 shaders for color conversions.

You can download it here: http://www.maxplugins.de/r9_files/maxplugins/ctrl_colors_max.zip
If anyone finds any bugs, let me know...

Dave

Thanks Dave
Look forward to trying this.

[gulio]

Hi Dave,
thanks for the adaption of the ctrl_color for 3ds max. I´m wondering why there is a .dlt file accompanied. I´ve tried only for curiosity reason to rename it, and the shader seems to work despite. Is there any additional workflow beside the conventional apply of the material?

greets, gulio

[MrElmo]

What is the best system unit setup for mental ray? I guess centimeters? Because that way the scale is good enough where the smallest detail visible is millimeter for in packshot scenes. while also centimeters is still usable for architecture.

greets

[maxplugins]

thanks for the adaption of the ctrl_color for 3ds max. I´m wondering why there is a .dlt file accompanied. I´ve tried only for curiosity reason to rename it, and the shader seems to work despite. Is there any additional workflow beside the conventional apply of the material?

The .dlt file IS the plugin. It allows Max to show a proper UI for the shaders, which isn't normally possible. For example there is normally no way of having dropdown lists to choose settings in the shader, but this is possible using the plugin.

A good example is the color_math shader. Without the plugin, you have to set the math operation using a number from 0 to 9, but you don't know what the numbers mean. With the plugin you can set the math operation by selecting a name from the dropdown list (Add, Multiply, etc.)

Another advantage is that with the plugin you can see which settings are active. The color_math shader without the plugin lets you adjust the Clamp Min and Clamp Max values regardless of the Clamp checkbox being checked, which is pointless. With the plugin, you can only adjust the clamp values if the clamp checkbox has been checked.

Dave

[gulio]

@Dave,
dankeschoen - for the explanation :)

[Cgmystic]

Many thanks to the plugin guy Dave Baker.
This adaptation of Francescas ctrl_Colors shader set to 3ds Max is most excellent.:thumbsup:

[thorsten hartmann]

Hi MrElmo,

Best system unit setup for mental ray can you not say.:)

For physical correct Lighning it is important 1 MaxFile-Unit = 1 Meter (Max system unit = which you want), then can you use photometric ies-light or the daylight system.

For physical correct atmosphere (partivolumen shader) it is important 1 Max-Unit = 1 Meter, then can you use the values from book "rendering with mental ray" or XSI.

when you can german look here:

physical correct beamer light: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=372

physical correct atmosphere in a room: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=296

Ergo-Leuchten & Mental Ray: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=334

Light IES-Eulumdat Data for realistic lightning: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=343

mfg
hot chip

[rebolt]

I am working on a scene in which i have to splash a muddy water. I created the water simulation in Realflow and now taking it back to Max for creating the shader and lighten up with mental ray. Could anyone tell me how we can create muddy water shader with realistic lightining ?

Thanks

[seedo]

hello:
i have a quick question.

what is the best realistic shadow type in mental ray with a soft edges?

thank u

[thorsten hartmann]

area raytracing shadows, the same for the other renders.

[MrElmo]

Hi MrElmo,

Best system unit setup for mental ray can you not say.:)

For physical correct Lighning it is important 1 MaxFile-Unit = 1 Meter (Max system unit = which you want), then can you use photometric ies-light or the daylight system.

For physical correct atmosphere (partivolumen shader) it is important 1 Max-Unit = 1 Meter, then can you use the values from book "rendering with mental ray" or XSI.

when you can german look here:

physical correct beamer light: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=372

physical correct atmosphere in a room: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=296

Ergo-Leuchten & Mental Ray: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=334

Light IES-Eulumdat Data for realistic lightning: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=343

mfg
hot chip
okay tnx 1 m it is

[DBKenn]

Jeff or anybody else is there a timestamp in mental ray like vray?

[demoniorojo]

http://www.maxplugins.de/mentalray.php?range=Output&sort=Author
here´s the stamp output shader from Ben Rogall :)

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

Or use a render effect like Grant Adam's FrameInfo Render Effect (http://www.rpmanager.com/plugins/FrameInfo.htm).

-Eric

[demoniorojo]

mhh yes! frameinfo is better option than stamp,and easier to use...:)

[chrisnobles]

could anyone point me in the right direction to the A&D leather and A&d leopard print materials?

thanks

chris

[Jiak]

I have a quick question about the arch+design material type. I'm guessing it is not possible to apply it as 2 sided to an object since it is a phyical shader type. Am I right on this?

Nevermind, I found the backface culling checkbox under advanced rendering options.

[JeffPatton]

could anyone point me in the right direction to the A&D leather and A&d leopard print materials?Hi Chris, I created those maps. The leather map was created from one of the leather maps that ships with 3dsmax. You can find it in the ArchMat folder. It's named "Furnishings.Fabrics.Leather.Pebble.Mauve.jpg". I took it into Photoshop and changed the color to brown and created a b&w bump map for it.

The animal prints do not ship with 3dsmax. I created them in Photoshop using the Alien skin texture plugin.

[DBKenn]

Could someone help me out with creating this Zbrush 3 material. I tried but I just don't understand the how to use fall off.

[StratusFarm]

I just created two Gold materials.
I used the scene file made by bao2, which I believe he modified from something Jeff came up with. (I hope noone minds)
One is a more Yellow gold I am calling 24k:
http://www.luckymutt.net/posts/20k_Gold.jpg

The other is a little darker I am calling 18k:
http://www.luckymutt.net/posts/18k_Gold.jpg

I made these with the A&D materials(about all I ever use anymore)
Crits are welcome.
Any interest and I'll post about it.
:)

[Slugger]

right, so I've read/searched this thread for advices how to setup my scenen with mr, have tried and tried does not work out. I am trying to do a sort of sunset/sunrise type of exterior daylight, have the daylight system with mr Sun & mr Sky, have a bitmap in the background(one of continiuums free spherical), so the problem is that I cant get the sundisk to appear when rendered with the background image(in the mr Physical Sky)?

cheers,

K.

[MasterZap]

right, so I've read/searched this thread for advices how to setup my scenen with mr, have tried and tried does not work out. I am trying to do a sort of sunset/sunrise type of exterior daylight, have the daylight system with mr Sun & mr Sky, have a bitmap in the background(one of continiuums free spherical), so the problem is that I cant get the sundisk to appear when rendered with the background image(in the mr Physical Sky)?

cheers,

K.

Thats your error right there; the sun disk is created by the "mr Physical Sky" environment shader. If you override that and place another spherical environment in => no sun disk! It's as simple as that!

Have you tried the trick of using the spherical map as a haze map instead, to make clouds, like I describe here (http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2007/02/clouds-with-mental-ray-sky.html)

/Z

[Slugger]

thanks MasterZap, got the idea using a bitmap via your website, did try again, put the bitmap in the haze slot instead, tried a lot of settings, the sundisc goes missing again whn haze map is in use, maybe better for me to comp that bitmap in, will try put in a glare8or whatever the effect is called with mr) to see if that could fix it all in one render

cheers

K.

[cezmikardas]

hi
3dsmax9 - DayLight MentalRay FinalGather Draft no GI.
Single Frame Time 00.46 Sec.
combustion 4 - ColorCorrection+DOF



http://www.cezmikardas.com/bmwx5-test.jpg

Movie Link: http://www.cezmikardas.com/bmw2.zip (http://www.cezmikardas.com/bmw2.zip)

Thanx http://mymentalray.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[seedo]

nice work man that was great.


can anyone tell me where i find jeff patton max 9 shaders?

thank u

[saiko]

cool work!

[rebolt]

Good work 'cezmikardas' looking great

[cezmikardas]

Thank You :)

[JeffPatton]

can anyone tell me where i find jeff patton max 9 shaders?My blog & website. Links in my signature below.

[Slugger]

hi

so how would one go about to create a lens flare type o effect? the glare I would assume, the scene im doing have already wquite a bit of glowing(glaring objects) and I did try to use the same glare setting for a couple of light beacons and windows, result is that the glare setting is way to weak for the light beacons. So I gather that a shader list is supposed to be used, well I put one in the output, thing is that I cant get how to adress the different glare's? Object Labels, whats that? Specific Objects? equally mysterious, anyone know? Did have a look at the mr help files, didn't help that much really, lines of codes etc,


cheers,

k.

[cezmikardas]

Here's a very basic test of a photoflash like effect rendered on MentalRay. A Similar effect is used only on Maxwell Render and takes a lot time to render. But some tweaking and playing with lights We can achive very similar effect on MR too. Note that this is a very basic test and took only 29 sec with no GI and FG but with RayTraced Shadow and inverse square on Decay.

max9 scene
http://www.cezmikardas.com/flash.zip

http://www.cezmikardas.com/flash.jpg

[ToddD]

cezmikardas (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=188114) I think this needs a bit more work to be on par with the maxwell examples we see. Also, this seems to be more of a lighting test, not a material posting,.

[Ehren]

Anyone have dispacement issues where things seem to radomly move around after a render?

I have a glacier canyon with a flying camera through it using the SSS Fast Skin Mat+Displace shader. In the displacement slot is a 3D displacment with a landscape lume in the extrusion map slot. The lume as a two procedurals set to object XYZ for the base and overlay slots.

It looks great with nice detail, except for when I render a sequence, I notice the geometry kind of radomly displaces diferently every few frames or so. Frustrating as I can't seem to figure out how to keep my icy mountains to stay still. It's applied to a simple mesh that isn't animated. Any ideas?

[Spacelord]

Anyone have dispacement issues where things seem to radomly move around after a render?

I have a glacier canyon with a flying camera through it using the SSS Fast Skin Mat+Displace shader. In the displacement slot is a 3D displacment with a landscape lume in the extrusion map slot. The lume as a two procedurals set to object XYZ for the base and overlay slots.

It looks great with nice detail, except for when I render a sequence, I notice the geometry kind of radomly displaces diferently every few frames or so. Frustrating as I can't seem to figure out how to keep my icy mountains to stay still. It's applied to a simple mesh that isn't animated. Any ideas?

Sounds like you have view dependent displacement on.
Try turning it off.

cheer

[Ehren]

View dependent? Can you explain this in practice? I ask cause I don't remember hitting the button that said make me view dependent. I did try swithcing my procedurals from object XYZ to explicit map channels thinking this very thing but still got the same results. I seem to notice it in the canyon portion of the attached image. Could the long faces be having something to throw off the displacement?

[damageINC]

I was just wondering why the sss fast skin shader + displacement wasn't displaying my displacement map in the scene at render time. I attempted to add the same map to the displacement slot of a base mental ray material in max and it showed up in the render just fine. I'm using max 8 btw.

[Ehren]

I found the view dependent swith in the global settings of the renderer tab. Why those sneaky people. There are displacement settings all over the place.

So... Why would max default with view dependent? Any examples of why and when this should be on or off?

[moidphotos]

I believe Mental Ray's displacement to be view dependent because that way as polygons recede away from the camera, MR builds less and less of them because they become too small to see. This means if your camera moves throughout a scene that might have areas with high contrast and very fine detail in the displacement map, they might suddenly appear to snap into existence or be culled flat depending on how the camera moves. The reason for this is much faster rendering of displacement effects (near objects get high levels of displacement, far away get almost nothing) and also less memory hit - far off objects require little or no displacement and therefore eat less RAM.

Unfortunately you have made a scene where turning the View dependent setting off sounds like a good idea, but you will have to suffer the consequences of longer render times and will need to adjust the edge length until the scene looks the way it did using view dependent.

Well that's my understanding of it, but if any MR experts want to add their opinion I'd be happy to be corrected:)

[Ehren]

Great explenation. Yep, that makes sense and seems to work. I'm suprised my scene came out this way. I suspect that perhaps if I teselated those large faces that the changing level of detail would be less noticable during the animation. Maybe scene scale effects this too? It's certainly something I'll be watching out for in future projects.

[lehthanis]

I'm actually having a harder time creating the rusty A&D material than I am blending them. Should I set the rusty a&d to metal or something else? Should I use bump or displacement? what kind of reflect/refract should rusty metal have? Any ideas?

In the past I've only ever approached rusty metal as a bumpy photograph or combination of noise...but the A&D requires a different approach and everything I try just looks wrong.

Edit: I'd even be happy with like a cast iron metal material.

[lehthanis]

It may just be me, but I think a separate definitive MR A&D Material thread would be REALLY useful here.

[Slugger]

ok, so i have come to the conclusion that I dont' know whats going on with mr, again, shadows this time, anyway, scene is indoor and using FG along with photometric lights, I've fiddled around with the shadow type & parameters, tried them all, cant seem to get the light to have soft shadows, searched here and found a thread about area raytracing shadows supposed to do soft shadows but thats not isn't in the options for photometric, anyone know how to get soft shadows from photometric light?

cheers,

k.

[MasterZap]

ok, so i have come to the conclusion that I dont' know whats going on with mr, again, shadows this time, anyway, scene is indoor and using FG along with photometric lights, I've fiddled around with the shadow type & parameters, tried them all, cant seem to get the light to have soft shadows, searched here and found a thread about area raytracing shadows supposed to do soft shadows but thats not isn't in the options for photometric, anyone know how to get soft shadows from photometric light?

cheers,

k.

Soft shadows come from area lights.

/Z

[MasterZap]

It may just be me, but I think a separate definitive MR A&D Material thread would be REALLY useful here.

There is a "New Topic" button, y'know... ;)

/Z

[lehthanis]

There is a "New Topic" button, y'know... ;)

/Z

Eh....I guess...I just didn't think I'd be "worthy" of starting a definitive thread...I dont' have enough content on my own...but I'll see.

[Slugger]

" Soft shadows come from area lights.

/Z"

yes Master, but they dont work for photometric lights, or?
here is what I get from mr:

MSG 0.0 error: Shadow generator "Area Shadows" on light "FPoint01" is unsupported (mental ray only supports raytraced and shadow maps). Using raytraced shadows.

maybe I've missed some checkbox somewhere? clearly the Shadows drop down menu has a entry for area shadows, but i cant get them going, have tried the setting for it(area shadows, and all the other possible shadow types, but no softness yet) but they simply turn out raytraced nomatter what

I might add there is a sun/sky and all that stuff in scene, logaritmic exposure, a combo indoor outdoor light setup in my own homebrewed way(probably shouldnt do it this way, but... i did), where the indoor light have ridiculous multipliers(100k and more)

cheers,

k.

[3DMadness]

" Soft shadows come from area lights.

/Z"

yes Master, but they dont work for photometric lights, or?
here is what I get from mr:

MSG 0.0 error: Shadow generator "Area Shadows" on light "FPoint01" is unsupported (mental ray only supports raytraced and shadow maps). Using raytraced shadows.

maybe I've missed some checkbox somewhere? clearly the Shadows drop down menu has a entry for area shadows, but i cant get them going, have tried the setting for it(area shadows, and all the other possible shadow types, but no softness yet) but they simply turn out raytraced nomatter what

I might add there is a sun/sky and all that stuff in scene, logaritmic exposure, a combo indoor outdoor light setup in my own homebrewed way(probably shouldnt do it this way, but... i did), where the indoor light have ridiculous multipliers(100k and more)

cheers,

k.
Yes, they work with photometric, but you have to use an free area or target area, not a point light. Then pick the raytrace shadow and down in the modifier you'll see the the option of area light sampling. And the larger the area light is, the softer the shadow.

If you notice what zap said, he mention "area light" not area shadow. :D

Cheers!

Flávio

[theotheo]

Yeah, for the area lights , use raytraced shadows.

-the0

[Slugger]

OK, thanks 3DMadness, confusion settled for now, will change them to area lights then, not area shadows on a lightbulb! :)


cheers,

k.

[depleteD]

Have you guys checked mental mill (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=4454131#post4454131) out yet?

I thik it only does realtime shaders, I thought it was supposed to have all of the mental ray shader functionallity.

-Andrew

[JeffPatton]

Many thanks to Thorsten Hartmann for posting the steps on compiling mental ray shaders on the German mental ray forum.

I had struggled with the translation of the tutorial until David Baker stepped up and translated it and cleared it up for me. A huge thanks to him for taking the time to do that.

As I was working through the tutorial I added some screen shots to hopefully make it even easier to follow. In the end, I think this updated document may be helpful to others out there, so here's a link to it:

http://jeffpatton.net/Tips/compiling_mentalray_shaders.zip

Jeff

[MikeBracken]

Thanks a ton. This is really helpful.

Regards,
Mike

[Mhyrdin]

:thumbsup: A great great work Jeff (as usual !!)
it would be very usefull
Thanks a lot !

[maxplugins]

Hi all,

I'm looking for someone who's using 64-bit Max 9 and knows his way around mental ray shaders, because I've recompiled the ctrl.Color shaders for 64-bit, but I can't test them. I don't want to put them on general release until I know that they work.

If you can help me out, just send me a PM here, and I'll get back to you.

Thanks,

Dave

[DBKenn]

Anybody know a good mr Ice Shader, realistic?

[thorsten hartmann]

look here: http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?p=376#376

http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/userpix/5_ice_update_1.jpg

mfg
hot chip

[DBKenn]

Thanks but it doesn't look like the quailty I'm looking for. plus I'm a Max user. :) thanks.

[maxplugins]

plus I'm a Max user.

Um, that's all done in Max. Even if the quality isn't what you're looking for, maybe it could be a good starting point for your own ice...

Dave

[grury]

Anybody know a good mr Ice Shader, realistic?

yep there is a great shader, there was a old thread about it, cant remember who the creator was. Will mail it to you, if you send me your address.

[hjalle]

Ice? Clear, frost, iceberg,……………………..?

The question, it’s like asking for “ colour”.

A image or describe you’re vision.

[thorsten hartmann]

hi

here a example from my Ice-Shader. The snow and ice is based on the same Shader and i have it make in 3DSMax.

http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/album_page.php?pic_id=21

[psv]

Thanks but it doesn't look like the quailty I'm looking for. plus I'm a Max user. :) thanks.
it`s such a shame that the shader doesn`t have the quality , more specific the quality you are looking for.....do your own shader then.an show us the quality....
if that shader doesn`t have Physical qualities , fitting your specific needs ... well that`s diferent.
So it is quality or Physical qualities (like texture, colour etc)????

[theotheo]

I've made some ice here; dunno if thats in your direction, but it's done with glass(lume) bump, displacements and hdri reflections :

ice ice baby (http://euqahuba.com/web2/images/ice_full.jpg)

Ofcourse, shaders like these are highly dependent on geometry and scene, so please elaborate on your direction.

-the0

[noouch]

Theo, that looks great! Care to share your scene?

[DBKenn]

thanks my email is kennfletch@gmail.com, thanks

[maxplugins]

I've just uploaded a 64-bit version of my ctrl_Colors plugin for anyone that might need it. And because the plugin won't work without a 64-bit mental ray shader, I've recompiled that as well :)

Plugin link: http://www.maxplugins.de/r9_files/maxplugins/ctrl_colors_max.zip

Shader link: http://www.maxplugins.de/mr_files/ctrl_colors_v1.0.zip

If you're downloading the plugin, you don't need to download the shader as well, because it's in the plugin zip file.

Dave

[Arcanox]

I've just uploaded a 64-bit version of my ctrl_Colors plugin for anyone that might need it. And because the plugin won't work without a 64-bit mental ray shader, I've recompiled that as well :)

Plugin link: http://www.maxplugins.de/r9_files/maxplugins/ctrl_colors_max.zip

Shader link: http://www.maxplugins.de/mr_files/ctrl_colors_v1.0.zip

If you're downloading the plugin, you don't need to download the shader as well, because it's in the plugin zip file.

Dave

I've been waiting on this one for a while, thanks alot for recompiling it. It's working great so far.

[loran]

theotheo, your ice scene is very beautifull. I m personaly interested about your method

[theotheo]

Thanks Loran and Noouch, let me see if i can dig the file up when i get back to work.

-the0

[BigPixolin]

Whatever happen to the Mental Ray material library similar to maxwell's? Did that ever get started or did it get shelved?

[Pixero]

Most of my shaders are now available for win 32, win 64, linux 32, linux 64 and OSX.
Thanks to the people that helped me compile for different platforms.
Especially David Lanier for the win 64, linux 32 and 64 versions.

As a gift to the MentalRay community there is also the source code for them included. Maybe someone can learn something from it. There is also a pack with just the source code. Look at the middle of the page.

Enjoy! :D

www.pixero.com (http://www.pixero.com)

[BigPixolin]

Whatever happen to the Mental Ray material library similar to maxwell's? Did that ever get started or did it get shelved?


Anybody have any idea about this?

This thread seems to be dying.

[JeffPatton]

Whatever happen to the Mental Ray material library similar to maxwell's? Did that ever get started or did it get shelved?

Anybody have any idea about this?

This thread seems to be dying.

Well, the material exchange site I was working on appears to have been axed/forgotten/ insert your favorite term here. The skinny is, at one point I was working with Autodesk on preparing a material exchange section of their "Area" website. Then suddenly the discussion stopped, emails went unanswered, etc.., so I'm left to assume the project was dropped. :shrug:

With that being said, I know of other sites that are currently working on a mental ray material exchange area. However, I'm not hands on involved with any of those projects so I can't offer any info on plans or status. Hopefully something will appear soon. If not, then shortly after SIGGRAPH, I'll start exploring my options again for creating something myself.

As for "this thread seems to be dying"...I dunno. I think it's less active here now because mental ray is easier to understand & work with these days. I've also noticed a decrease in the amount of mental ray questions posted in the general forums. Also, there's more mental ray information scattered around various places now than back in 2003 when this beast of a thread began. WOW, it's a four year old thread!

At any rate, that's just some my own opinions as to why this thread has slowed down.

[mustan9]

Thanks Jeff for the heads up.

I was also thinking of doing a material exchange site. I have a handy hand at PHP programming, but didn't want to invest in a machine to just sit there and render samples of the materials.

I think it would be easy to do such a site if you didn't require consistant look to the material samples.

[loran]

Does any custom Shader for matte shadow exist for MentalRay? I have tried illumination map but It need several pass (one for shadows, one for hero object...)
I want a one pass with hero object render + shadows in alpha, as standart matte/shadow material do for scanline render.

[Slugger]

std max matte shadow works with mr, at least it did so for me, not expert on tech stuff but as far as I can tell std max matte shadow worked exactly the way with mr as it does with scanline


cheers,

k.

[loran]

Matte/shadow doesn't recieve FG shadows, only direct shadows are rendered.

[TomMannington]

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to simulate a thick protective clear coat? An example being the finish on the white plastic on the ipod, where the is obviously a white base but a fairly heavy (0.5mm +) clear coat of plastic too. Normally it wouldn't be noticeable but the parts I'm rendering have very tiny filleted (chamfers in max) edges where it becomes apparent.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Smish Smash]

You could try applying a muli /sub object material to your geometry. A clear acylic material asigned to the outer of the mesh and a white material on the inside faces.

Think of it as painting the inside surface of a plastic component.

Hope this helps

[mustan9]

Use the Shellac material, and make the diffuse color of the second color black. This will allow you to mix in a specular component from a second material. If done correctly it will look like the material has a clear plastic coating.

[TomMannington]

Shellac was the first thing I tried, and although it works to give a specular component the laquer coating has no depth, there is no obvious layer of clear coat when viewed close up (I generally render above A3 in size) and I'd rather not have to resort to using geometry.

The multi/sub material seems to be giving me some interesting results which I'll post when my comp is finished rendering. Thanks for the replies.

[mustan9]

The only way you could tell the thickness of the lacquer coating would be on sharp edges where the viewing angle runs straight threw it. Even so it would have to be micro photograph to see such an effect.

I would be interested in seeing your examples. Are you trying to procude an effect like an ice coating on the material?

[TomMannington]

Here is a pic of the plastic in question, sorry about the photo quality but I hope it explains what sort of effect I'm after. I'm not going for an ice coating I'm just being far too anal for my own good.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8135/sansaphotolp6.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sansaphotolp6.jpg)

I've encountered some interesting effects with the multi/sub material option, especially when it come to applying it to my model, the first one is on my original mesh which is not closed (I model in rhino and remove non visible surfaces to reduce the poly count) there is a visible difference between the material on the buttons (which are closed) and the main casing which is open.

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9880/009jg2.th.jpg (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=009jg2.jpg)

Then I went back into Rhino and closed the main casing mesh and re-rendered which gave a very diffrent outcome

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6822/010gm7.th.jpg (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=010gm7.jpg)

[TnB]

cool renders,both are nice ,but aspecially the first one;i don't really understand what are you aiming for

[mustan9]

Nice model. I'm holding a Sansa right now. They are very cool.

I'm looking at it closely here and I'm not sure this is a lacquer coating, but is a clear plastic with the back side painted black. So I'm not sure you can get that sense of depth without doing some raytracing to pick up the refraction of the material. It's the refraction that gives it that look of thickness and depth.

The plastic looks about 1mm thick, and behind it there is a black material. The buttons are clear platic sitting on a black back plate.

Still, if you can fack it with the materials then that's fine, but I would advise updating the model.

[TomMannington]

Looks like you were right mustan9, remodelled it this morning with an inner black layer and outer clear plastic. and it looks much better. Currently the inner layer is a black A+D and the outer is a raytrace with a glass(lume) map in the mental ray connection surface rollout slot. I might replace it with a transparent A+D mat once I've had a chance to play around with them.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/736/010iu6.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=010iu6.jpg)

I also might turn caustics on and see what that gives me. Thank you very much for your help.

I also have these A+D shaders if anyone is interested, the first is carbon fibre based on the technique previosly in the thread but in and A+Dmat, so it renders in no time at all. It's still a bit of a work in progress.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/315/jabracarbonfibrexc0.th.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jabracarbonfibrexc0.jpg)

The second is an A+D leather shader designed for close up shots (unfortunately is nowhere near as good as Jeff's)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9535/jabraheadjo1.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jabraheadjo1.jpg)

Sorry about the cropping but there is a logo on the design I'm not sure I have permission to use yet.

[mustan9]

Are those shaders completely procedural or do they require a texture? If they are procedural then that's some amazing shaders. Yes, please share! :thumbsup:

The Sansa looks perfect.

This would look a lot better with a studio lighting setup. Some white panel light boards placed around it to be picked up in the reflections. Also the LCD display should drop down about 2mm because of the thick glass screen. But, I only notice it because I'm looking at one here.

Now can you make it transform into a robot? :bounce:

[TomMannington]

The carbon requires 3-4 maps as I'm yet to find a way to get that weave pattern using procedural checker maps.......eventually I'll get it even if it means I explode in a fit of anal retentiveness. I'll see if i can zip the whole thing up and post it somewhere.

The leather one is entirely procedural, just getting some screen shots of the settings now.

[TomMannington]

Here is the leather

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/424/leatherjj6.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leatherjj6.jpg)

A studio render has been the plan from the start, unfortunately I find rhino meshes don't always work well with white panels unless I'm using a blurred material, they have a habit of picking up mesh errors which are very difficult to get rid of becasue I can't model in max to adjust them.

I'd love to see it transform, but I have a CV and portfolio do some revsions to before joining the real world and getting a proper job.........alas, woe is me!

[Smish Smash]

Hi Tom
Nice render I did start to do a test scene for you, but I see youve cracked it.
Geometry is very important for the thick plastic look. Did you use multi sub or is the geometry split?

Oh and the carbon looks very nice.

[JeffPatton]

Renders (and materials) look pretty good. Although there appears to be some vertical lines in the leather material? Is that related to the geometry or is it a material issue?

[TomMannington]

Jeff - I have a feeling its a material issue, it started out as a raytrace mat, then I upgraded to max 9 and put it in an A+D and the streaks became more prominant, although I think I have the bump set too high on that render, think I reduced it to 0.2 or so and they weren't as bad. Plus when it was created the deadline for the work was only a week so I haven't played around with it very much since.

Smish Smash - Thanks very much for your concern, it would be interesting to see if it was possible to do with just a material. I went back into Rhino and offset some surfaces instead. It's raised my poly count to over a million now but think my comp will hack it.

I'm gonna carry on working with the carbon, as bump is not particularly good on it and it still doesn't really behave like the real thing in terms of reflections and angles. I think an awesome material such as carbon fibre deserves an awesome shader. The one perviously in this thread is the best i've seen but takes so damn long to render.

[tryhard]

HI,

is there a 64 Bit version of that shader ???


OK i finally found it again at

maxplugins.de

[JeffPatton]

I've added a few more materials to my A&D material collection. Here's some test renders of the materials I added:

Shaded wire-frame material (click to enlarge)
http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_shaded-wire-thb.jpg (http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_shaded-wire.jpg)

Soft leather (click to enlarge)
http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_leather_soft-thb.jpg (http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_leather_soft.jpg)

Shiny leather (click to enlarge)
http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_leather_shiny-thb.jpg (http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_leather_shiny.jpg)

Carbon fiber (click to enlarge)
http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_Carbon_fiber-thb.jpg (http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_Carbon_fiber.jpg)

Ice (click to enlarge)
http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_Ice-thb.jpg (http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/JP_Ice.jpg)

The download link is on my blog:
http://jeffpatton.cgsociety.org/blog/

[saiko]

whoa!!
you are gifted Jeff !! :)

[Massemannen]

Thank you Jeff. Much appreciated!

[maxplugins]

is there a 64 Bit version of that shader ???

OK i finally found it again at maxplugins.de

Huh? Where did you find it? I didn't think I had ctrl_geolight on my site... And I'm sure there isn't a 64-bit version of it

Dave

[Arcanox]

Jeff, your stuff is awesome as usual. I'm looking forward to the 2nd part of the parti-volume shader tutorial. :)

[TomMannington]

Cracking stuff as always Jeff (bows humbly), although I do have a problem/question with your carbon fibre and its the same with mine and pretty much every other attempt at the material. The change in colour or highlights in the material weave aren't caused by a change in diffuse colour between horizontal and vertical weave elements, but by the surface curvature of the object and how the light subsiquently interacts with the weave pattern.

Example: http://www.bbist.com/Carbon%20Fiber%20Mirror%20Covers%20xB.jpg

The link above shows a carbon fibre wing mirror with some large specular highlights caused by the sun. Towards the stem of the wing mirror and running diagonally up to the top right corner the vertial parts of the weave are highlighted, but because of the geometry of the part towards the bottom right the horizontal parts are now highlighted. The same effect would not be possible by using just a specular and diffuse map. I hope this makes sense.

Unfortuantely generating this material effect where essentially horizontal and vertical weaves are independently controlled and influenced by the light in the scene is where is spectacularly run out of talent with mental ray. Any ideas?

[JeffPatton]

I do have a problem/question with your carbon fibre and its the same with mine and pretty much every other attempt at the material. The change in colour or highlights in the material weave aren't caused by a change in diffuse colour between horizontal and vertical weave elements, but by the surface curvature of the object and how the light subsiquently interacts with the weave pattern.

Unfortuantely generating this material effect where essentially horizontal and vertical weaves are independently controlled and influenced by the light in the scene is where is spectacularly run out of talent with mental ray. Any ideas?I agree. I wasn't "thrilled" with the CF material I posted either. I do have another version that seems to work in a more realistic manner though: http://jeffpatton.net/Temp/Carbon_fiber.mov (right click, save as will probably work better than playing it directly)

I'll probably replace the CF material I posted the other day with this one. It's certainly not perfect in it's current state, I need to tweak it a bit further, but I think it's better than my previous example.

[rodrigogua]

that looks real nice, jeff!

[RJI]

Hi all,

I have another question, is it possible to create an wet asphalt in mental ray like this:

http://www.vray-materials.de/all_materials.php?mat=1107

on this site it is an v ray material, but i need it in mental ray. Have anybody an Idea how to do this in mental ray?

thanks in advance

[3DMadness]

Hi all,

I have another question, is it possible to create an wet asphalt in mental ray like this:

http://www.vray-materials.de/all_materials.php?mat=1107

on this site it is an v ray material, but i need it in mental ray. Have anybody an Idea how to do this in mental ray?

thanks in advance
Have you downloaded this material? If so, put a screenshot of the vraymaterial, it's quite easy to replicate vraymaterials with mr A&D materials. Also, theres a script made by mr. Zap that converts vray material to A&D, you can download it from zap's blog: http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2007/06/conversion-script-update.html#links

[RJI]

Yes I have downloaded this Material from this site. But I have any experiences in Maxscript. its too dificult for me.

[3DMadness]

Ok, so put a screenshot from the material editor to see how this material was made, so we can replicate it with mr.

[RJI]

so here is v ray material tree

[AnimG]

The map is quite straight forward from first looks.

You can see that the material uses 3 texture maps

Diffuse Asphalt (just get a tile map of your road outside)
Wet Asphalt (darken the diffuse map but use a different specular, mask out the diffuse map)
Puddles (same as wet asphalt but use masked reflection too)

The key things you need to learn are mix and mask mapping types. These allow different textures to occupy a surface where a third map controls the distribution. You can acheive many effects like rusty materials, chipped painted surfaces and dry/wet surfaces.

You will find yourself "copy" a lot of noise maps to use as the masks and things can get confusing sometimes but take ya time and work on just diffuse first, then try masking specular for each different diffuse and so on....

Cheers
Anim

[Jsnyder]

Hey guys, i'm having some problems with an SSS material i'm hoping someone could help me figure out

I have an object (it's a single blade of grass). it's about .1 of a cm thick, and 7cm's tall, and about 1cm wide.

I'm using an MR Sun system (with logarthimic exposure control) with FG Turned on

When i apply a SSS material to my object it just turns pitch black, and i can't sem to get it to show anything. It's just always black for me. If i reset my scene just make a box, put a light in, and put a SSS material on it i can see the effect then, but is my Grass just to small, or does SSS not work with FG/MR Sky system?

And thought would be appreciated

[moidphotos]

Scroll down the SSS shader and tick the box that says "Scatter Indirect Illumination" That should do the trick:) although prepare for longer render times...

[Jsnyder]

Hey, thanks for the suggestion i had tried turning that on but noticed no diffrence

http://surrient.com/grass.zip

Is the link to the zip of the scene (max 9 file) hopefully if someone feels in a giving mood they could take a look and help me out!

[rodrigogua]

i think .1 cm would be a bit thick for a grass blade i think you've got to create physically accurate models for sss to work properly

[JeffPatton]

I'm using an MR Sun system (with logarthimic exposure control) with FG Turned on

When i apply a SSS material to my object it just turns pitch black, and i can't sem to get it to show anything.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=6&t=459889

[Jsnyder]

Oh, haha, that's got it working! Thanks Jeff

[muzbee3d]

HI
I'm trying to make a shot with a clear glass test tube filled with a red liquid, the red liquid tube shape slides out the side of the test tube and
changes to green as it exits the glass, caustics are on all. Photo real shot.
Been trying to get LUME Wet/Dry to do it but can't get the look.
IS there a way to make this effect

Any ideas welcome

TIA

[JeffPatton]

Here's an example using the wet/dry shader as you mentioned. I'd try to stick with transparent shadows instead of caustics though. If you must use caustics, then you'll also have to animate the photon maps.

animation (mpeg4):
http://jeffpatton.net/Tests/Mat_switcher.mov

Max9 Scene:
http://jeffpatton.net/Tests/Material_switcher.zip

[muzbee3d]

Thanks, Jeff your very kind to give advice.
Will give it another try refering to your sample and notes, I was going to hand roto the color change which includes caustics :(
____________

BY the way how does one get a alpha from reflections on a surface,
I have a marble counter ( Production shot ) and stacked cgi bottles on the real counter with a MR GLASS plane matching the counter backplate to create reflections, Also tried MAT/shadow mat. Cant seem to get alpha output for reflections for post compositing, IS it possible ?

Have a good one

[depleteD]

anyone know of a mental ray shader that will render out velocity?

Sort of velocity to color

[Pixero]

anyone know of a mental ray shader that will render out velocity?

Sort of velocity to color

http://www.impresszio.hu/szabolcs/MentalRay/lm_2dmvMayaFiles.htm
http://www.alamaison.fr/3d/lm_2DMV/lm_2DMV_ref.htm

[depleteD]

hmm i droped this into my autoload folder for mental ray and it only seems to render brown.
This sahder work for max 8 or only 6 and below?

thanks

[stefan]

For velocity2color use render element's velocity pass.

[loran]

I have to create a growing flower from seed. I wish to render with Mr so can anyone help me to find the better way to create the transluscent shader?
thanks

[loran]

OK Ok I m done :)
here is my result by using A&D. fast render. I use 2 photometric area lights, no GI.
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/flower/flower2-000015.jpg (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/flower/flower2-000015.mov)

here is my setting:
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/flower/Shader-settings.jpg

[demoniorojo]

for physical traslucenence the best choice is sss phys shader with very impressive results,but very hard to set up, so If you don´t need this and you want more an friendly control...can use sss fast, but without refractive borders , physically accuracy and true transucence photon scattering... the final render of this shader used in a grappes scene is very realistic

Edit:good shader,I think in more translucent shader :)

[Ehren]

I was using the A&D copper material in a max 9 project. It was assigned to an object with an object id of 2 with render elements object ids active.

My object id pass renders red with blue spots all over it. Why? If I switch the material to a non A&D one it works as expected. I get a solid red matte.

Is this an A&D material bug?

[Anorgan]

"Also, if you dare, you can enable Final gather... "

I dared and ended up having high render times, so i went for optimization. I have included the file for download and the image below. It renderd little over 2 hours on my Athlon 2800xp with 512mb ram, so expect faster render times on better comp.

Have to try with the skylight...

Glass-SSS optimized (http://www.anorgan.com/download/GLASS-SSS-optimized.zip)

http://www.anorgan.com/download/glass-sss-optimized.jpg

[MasterZap]

Here's an example using the wet/dry shader as you mentioned. I'd try to stick with transparent shadows instead of caustics though. If you must use caustics, then you'll also have to animate the photon maps.

animation (mpeg4):
http://jeffpatton.net/Tests/Mat_switcher.mov

Max9 Scene:
http://jeffpatton.net/Tests/Material_switcher.zip

That old thing still works! ;)

/Z

[JeffPatton]

That old thing still works! ;)Me or the wet/dry shader? lol.

[JHN]

I was using the A&D copper material in a max 9 project. It was assigned to an object with an object id of 2 with render elements object ids active.

My object id pass renders red with blue spots all over it. Why? If I switch the material to a non A&D one it works as expected. I get a solid red matte.

Is this an A&D material bug?

MR materials in general don't seem to work well with the renderpasses... :( We are also unable to extract ObjID's with MR materials... you could use rpf and save them as a channel.

-Johan

[Ehren]

Please tell me this has been fixed in the new version of max.

Knowing that the A&D materials don't play well with render passes IMO is not production ready software. How could this slip by? All of my 3D goes through a serious compositing pipeline. RPFs just willn't make the grade.

[TunnelLight]

Hi everyone,

I've been playing with vray for sometime now but would like to do some work with mental ray. I do visualisation for a Military vehicle company and do a lot of renders of out vehicles using real pictures as a background. I'm having trouble with the bodywork material looking like its part of the scene and not just a cgi element in a picture.

I was wondering if someone could give me some tips as there seems to be a lot more settings than vray materials.

Thanks in advance
Playford

[MasterZap]

MR materials in general don't seem to work well with the renderpasses... :( We are also unable to extract ObjID's with MR materials... you could use rpf and save them as a channel.

-Johan

ObjID's should work with A&D, as well as most render channels.
For a lot of mental ray shaders (especially 3rd party ones, but also many older shaders), it's true they don't work togeher w. max's render elements system, because that is a max specific thing. However, the A&D material was done to be as tightly integrated as humanly possible, so all these things should work.

Have you logged a bug (http://www.autodesk.com/submitbug)? Always log a bug. Always log a bug. Always.

/Z

[Ehren]

It appears my problem has to do with using the A&D cut out, back face culling, and the shell modifier.

If back face culling is on in the material with a cutout and applied to a plane with a shell modifer, it willn't render from the back side in the object ID channel unless it's overlapping another ID. Turn off the shellmodifer and turn off back face culling will allow it to render in the object ID pass.

Further, I had a self illuminated sphere with an HDRI image and no FG set to not be visible by the camera in the scene. This was causing the object ID to be a blue around the edges of the aplha from the cutout. It also made the edges of the cutout matte self illuminate in the normal render pass when viewed through the back face of the planes, but not the front.

The was a simple scene of falling leaves with instanced A&D mapped planes in PF using the cut out for nice shadows.

I think the cutout portion of A&D has issues with back face culling and render elements object ids.

Bug filled.

[rodrigogua]

been playing around with car paint and a&d glass. and here is the result. the model is by evermotion, so i cannot post the entire scene. if anyone wants the settings, though, feel free to ask. for the environment and lighting i used a lighttent. might post the model for it if you want it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/rodrigogua/cgtalk/mouse_final.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/rodrigogua/cgtalk/mouse_shadedwire.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/rodrigogua/cgtalk/lighttent.jpg

[loran]

I 'm currently searching for documentation about the SSS fast Skin shader.
Where to map what? how to use so many channels efficiently.
thanks

here is my WIP model with default shader settings
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/spacemarines/face-beta10.jpg

[Geser]

The very good help you can find here
http://lamrug.org/en/la/index.html
and here
http://lamrug.org/en/la/resources/skintips.html

[MasterZap]

Look at the link in this blog entry (http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2007/02/gnomon-workshop-skin-shader-tutorial.html) but please also read my comments in the entry itself...

/Z

[everlite]

Hey guys,

Just looking for a little help improving this scene with MR ...



http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/bottle.jpg

scene:

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/bottle.max

Thanks,

Dave.

[tryhard]

..Have you followed the steps on my site: http://www.pixero.com/downloads_darktree_howto.html

You Need to copy the TIWdtemental.mi from Max include to your shaders_autoload include folder.
The TIWdtemental.dll goes in the shaders folder.
You also need to download the DarkTree Engine components.
And dont forget to create a environment variable with the path to the DTE components.

any chance to see a 64 BIT version of the TIWdtemental.dll ???

Greetings

Klaus

[loran]

My personal advices:

-work at right scale when use photons

-no need FG here

-your bottle model seems to be incorrect for glass material. I fast remodeled one

- enhance trace depth to 40:20:20 in Render window / renders /raytracing/trace depth to avoid black area in glass material.









max9scene (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/bottle.max)


http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/bottle.jpg

[everlite]

Thank you Laurent, that looks much better :) You said the bottle was modelled incorrect for the shader, i've looked over the file and there are quite a few changes, could you explain what it was about the modelling that effected the final shader? Did you do something at the edit poly level?

Edit: Just trying to reconstruct my original scene with your advice, one issue i'm having is the black lines, i've adjusted the raytracing but still no good, any further suggestions what might get rid of this?

Thanks again,

Dave.

[tryhard]

Thank you Laurent, that looks much better :) You said the bottle was modelled incorrect for the shader, i've looked over the file and there are quite a few changes, could you explain what it was about the modelling that effected the final shader? Did you do something at the edit poly level?

Edit: Just trying to reconstruct my original scene with your advice, one issue i'm having is the black lines, i've adjusted the raytracing but still no good, any further suggestions what might get rid of this?

Thanks again,

Dave.

... if you use your model you will always have them because you have edges, straight corners not round ...

[everlite]

Thanks tryhard,

No, i did pretty much as Laurent did in his file, to the best of what i could see, including a mesh smooth, but still a very distinct black line, though a little smoothed.

Thanks again.

- Dave.

[tryhard]

Thanks tryhard,

No, i did pretty much as Laurent did in his file, to the best of what i could see, including a mesh smooth, but still a very distinct black line, though a little smoothed.

Thanks again.

- Dave.

... rendering would be helpfull :-)

[DBKenn]

http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2007/09/famous-mental-ray-myths.html

What do you think Jeff

[cris castro]

hello,

i'm looking thru a way to achieve a transparent bottle of water(made of glass) with water inside, what would be the best way to achieves this?, thanks for your help.

[JeffPatton]

http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2007/09/famous-mental-ray-myths.html

What do you think JeffI don't follow, what do I think about Zap's blog? I think everyone that uses mental ray should subscribe to his blog because the man simply knows his stuff, no question about it. :thumbsup:

[MasterZap]

I don't follow, what do I think about Zap's blog? I think everyone that uses mental ray should subscribe to his blog because the man simply knows his stuff, no question about it. :thumbsup:

"I kno' nuttin'" ;)

/Z

[dave-3d]

"I kno' nuttin'" ;)

/Z

Riiiiight ..... ;)

Dave

[Dice2]

"It did a fairly good job of simulating radiosity. I think I will try it now with a scanline radiosity render, mixed with the MR dirtmap pass and see what happens.

(building model came from cgarchitect light test thread)

__________________
Jeff Patton


Hi Jeff.

This was a fairly old post of yours (I'm going through the thread from years back)! Where you able to use the dirtmap shder with Scanline?

I need to generate a scanline scene for general rendering. And I think if I can apply dirtmap to material it wil improve the render by a big bunch. Please let me know yoru thoughts on this (can't use MR ).

Much apprecaied in advance.

Cheers...

D2

[JeffPatton]

(I'm going through the thread from years back)! Where you able to use the dirtmap shder with Scanline?No, what I meant was that I would render the image using the scanline renderer, then render an ambient occlusion/dirtmap image with mental ray and then combine the two in Photoshop. AFAIK, the mental ray shaders/materials do not work with the scanline renderer.

[Bao2]

http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2007/09/famous-mental-ray-myths.html

What do you think Jeff

I was rendering hair (max hair) with mentalray and I tried shadow maps and raytraced shadows and in my case it spend the same amount of time but shadow mapped was very bad looking. So raytraced shadows with max hair was my choice. I would like an example to demonstrate I am wrong in both things.

[MasterZap]

I was rendering hair (max hair) with mentalray and I tried shadow maps and raytraced shadows and in my case it spend the same amount of time but shadow mapped was very bad looking. So raytraced shadows with max hair was my choice. I would like an example to demonstrate I am wrong in both things.

Did you use detail shadow maps (called "Transparent shadow maps" in max), as I say in the post, I wonder? Did you use the rasterizer? And most importantly, I'm talking about when using the actual mental ray hair primitive, not the "buffer" method (in which the hair is a post effect that gets comped on top of your render). And did you enable shadow maps globally? (They are off by default in max?)

This is raytraced hair w. raytraced shadows:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/raytraced-hair.jpg

And here is the rasterizer + detail shadow maps hair:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/shadowmap-hair.jpg

The latter rendered quite a lot faster.

/Z

[Bao2]

a) Did you use detail shadow maps (called "Transparent shadow maps" in max)

b) Did you use the rasterizer?

c) I'm talking about when using the actual mental ray hair primitive, not the "buffer" method

d) And did you enable shadow maps globally? (They are off by default in max?)
/Z

Thanks Masterzap for your interest.
a) I can't see "transparent shadow maps" anywhere in max lights or preferences dialog. Where is it???
b) I think this was off, today at night when back in home I would chech that!
c) Yes I was using hair primitive not buffer
d) Can't find also this option, if you are talking about the render dialog (render tab I think, it is turned on by default)

Well, so my only doubt seems a). I am desesperate to go home tonight and test b)

[MasterZap]

Thanks Masterzap for your interest.
a) I can't see "transparent shadow maps" anywhere in max lights or preferences dialog. Where is it???


- Make a light,
- set it's shadow type to "mental ray Shadow Map"
- now there is a rollout for "mental ray Shadow Map"
- in it, turn on "Transparent Shadows"
- you probably need to tweak the "sample range" (= "softness") as well as resolution
- as with all shadow maps, use spotlights so the resolution isn't lost in meaningless directions


b) I think this was off, today at night when back in home I would chech that!
c) Yes I was using hair primitive not buffer


Good



d) Can't find also this option, if you are talking about the render dialog (render tab I think, it is turned on by default)


In "renderer" tab in render dialog, the "Shadows & Displacement" rollout, in the "Shadows" section, there is a subsection "Shadow Maps" with an "Enable" check box. Is this on? If so, yer fine.

/Z

[Bao2]

- Make a light,
- set it's shadow type to "mental ray Shadow Map"
- now there is a rollout for "mental ray Shadow Map"
- in it, turn on "Transparent Shadows"


Yes! I was missing that Transparent check box!
Rendering without checking it did strange artifacts appear and so I did my mind shadow maps were buggy. But activating "transparent" the artifacts are gone and render time is half. The quality is near the same so really this is a good speed trick.

So... you were right (as always!).
Many thanks! Is great having the possibility to be instructed by you!

[Nikolab]

One question... How do I get a soft shadows with photometric light with Ies file?
Thanks

[MasterZap]

One question... How do I get a soft shadows with photometric light with Ies file?
Thanks

Soft shadows = Area lights.

/Z

[jigu]

I think you posted in wrong section. this is the thread about "mentalray shaders".

change light type to "area" in general light parameters.

EDIT : LOL i m 2 secs late in typing. masterZ already answered. :P

[MasterZap]

Rendering without checking it did strange artifacts appear and so I did my mind shadow maps were buggy. But activating "transparent" the artifacts are gone and render time is half. The quality is near the same so really this is a good speed trick.


And you enabled "Use Fast Rasterizer (Rapid Motion Blur)" in the Render dialog ("Renderer" tab, "Rendering Algorithms" rollout)?

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/mr-rasterizer.jpg


So... you were right (as always!).


It's a really irrititating habit of mine ;)


Many thanks! Is great having the possibility to be instructed by you!

And many thanks for the thanks. Each "thanks" warms my little heart a little more. ;)

/Z

[jigu]

Hey MasterG can you help me a bit? I need you help to create ocean shader for tidal waves.

I was working on ocean tidalwave shader last month which project is on hold due to other works. Here is the rendered image so far.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8200/tidalkg4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I am using "Mentalray material" with reflect(base) map in surface slot , and in the "input" slot of that map, i am using refract(base) map with masked gradient ramp mapped transperency. so i m getting refraction on the edge of the tidal wave where it's bended.

Also i am getting black spots (as marked by redcircle in image) for all frames of the animation. I am using one direct light without any shadow and FG is turned on(low preset).

EDIT : forgot to mention, I am also using "mia_exposure" map to boost intensity of sky and get reflection in water and sky will be removed in compositing. sky is gradient map as background.

I tried to use A&D material but not getting right look of tidal waves.
Here is the refernce i am refering. http://www.imageworks.com/index.php
("surfs up" in video section)

I would appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance,
J.

[JeffPatton]

I'm curious to see the A&D results and your A&D water material settings. The A&D material should work great for this scene. Did you try turning off the "Skip reflections on inside (except total internal reflection)" option on the A&D material? Turning that off should make the refractions look better (assuming the wave is solid geometry).

[jigu]

Thanks jeff for help!

Yes i tried A&D material with water preset. I changed diffuse amount to 1.0 and used gradient ramp map (Blue-White-Blue colors) to have white water(Foam) on the top edge of the tidal wave. and used the same map in refraction slot but map colors changed to black&white to masked the transperency. so i can get a bit refraction on bended(Curved) part of tidalwave.

As for geometry, I used high dense plane(with 300x300 Segments) with FFD modifier. so tidalwave shape is given by FFD.

My pc is currently busy with some archi. interior renderings. but after finishing it , i will email or post file soon. Thanks

[Bao2]

And you enabled "Use Fast Rasterizer (Rapid Motion Blur)" in the Render dialog ("Renderer" tab, "Rendering Algorithms" rollout)?


Yes (because you said it) in your first answer.

The last thing I was trying was set the "mr Voxel Resolution" from the default 5 to 1. I could not see any difference and the rendering is much faster too (it is in the Hair and Fur in Environment and Effects Dialog.

I hope next version Max comes with a "Quick hair" button than sets all these things automatically :)

[stefan]

Any new tests with Max2008 super duper production shader?
U can enable it with removing "hidden" in its mi files.

[KV99]

What's the name of the shader?

[JeffPatton]

What's the name of the shader?It's not A shader, it's quite a few very useful shaders:

mr Raytype Switcher
mr Raytype Switcher (advanced)
mr Raytype Switcher (environment)
mr Card Opacity
mr Motion Blur
mr Motion Vector Export
mr Matte/Shadow/Reflection
mr Camera Map
mr Mirror Ball
mr Gray Ball
mr Gamma & Gain
mr Render Subset of Scene

[Dice2]

Hi Jeff,

May I ask what settings you use to create the blending plane/background that you use in your car scenes? I'm trying to find a material setting for the plane ground that woudl change along with teh environment background color (say white to black). If that's not possible, then a white cream plane with 10-20% reflection with blending background I can work with.

I've seen a shot on one of your car scenes (white cream) that looked awsome! (don't ask when or where lol)

Much apprecaited in advance as always.

D2

[thorsten hartmann]

hi

here is a complet list of all new mental ray Shader with paramater Screen Shots and a short documentation.

http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=1002


mfg
hot chip

[KV99]

May I ask what settings you use to create the blending plane/background that you use in your car scenes? I'm trying to find a material setting for the plane ground that woudl change along with teh environment background color (say white to black).
D2

While I'm not Jeff and don't am not exactly sure what you mean, but to get a ground plane to blend with the background all you really need to do is have an opacity map set to ground plane. I myself use an opacity map that has a circular blend from the white of the center to the black on the edges and that's it, ground blending with background. And it works with all sorts of other material settings attached to the plane.

hi

here is a complet list of all new mental ray Shader with paramater Screen Shots and a short documentation.

http://forum.german-mentalray-wiki.info/viewtopic.php?t=1002


It would really be useful for someone knowing german to actually translate it, screenshots are welcome even alone, but knowing what the comments say would help a lot.

[KV99]

Also, are there any other useful shaders in Max 2008 that did not have time to pass Q&A yet and are hidden yet quite useful? I've checked the files and there's quite a bit of hidden things there, but other than production shaders, I wasn't sure about the ones found in other files.

Any sort of help is appreciated,

[Bao2]

It would really be useful for someone knowing german to actually translate it, screenshots are welcome even alone, but knowing what the comments say would help a lot.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.german-mentalray-wiki.info%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D1002&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

[Bao2]

It's not A shader, it's quite a few very useful shaders:

mr Raytype Switcher
mr Raytype Switcher (advanced)
mr Raytype Switcher (environment)
mr Card Opacity
mr Motion Blur
mr Motion Vector Export
mr Matte/Shadow/Reflection
mr Camera Map
mr Mirror Ball
mr Gray Ball
mr Gamma & Gain
mr Render Subset of Scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxKxPy5oeOs

[simmsimaging]

Hi all -
I have been away from Mental Ray for a while and now I'm trying to figure out how to create materials to match some things I have done in Maxwell and Fry.

Have a look at this material test:

http://simmsimaging.com/CG/JustlabelTest1_03.jpg

This is a 4-5 layer material I made in Fry that is just placed on a basic cylinder with an alpha/opacity/cutout map to define the shape. I cannot figure out how to create something similar with Mental Ray. Basically I can create the different parts with different A&D material settings (gold foil, silver foil, main label area) but can't seem to get them combined into one mat like I did with MW or Fry.

How do you create complex mixed materials with MR? I tried the Composite mat - no joy because I can't seem to weight-map the different materials, they just overlay each other.

Blend might be okay, but I can only mix 2 materials and I need at least 3 (gold foil, silver foil, and main label). I could probably figure out a workaround to use Blend, but I would like to know how to do this anyway.

I tried using JS_Multilayers but either I cannot figure it out or it won't let me combine multiple alphas on one material to create the right material look and still have the cutout. I looked for some docs/help on that one but didn't find very much.

I am hoping I'm just missing something really simple, any help much appreciated. :)

b

[Spacelord]

Hi Simms,
Not sure if it works in Max but you could try the Layer 8 Mix from ctrl studios.
Or you could try nesting blends one blend inside another.

cheers

[simmsimaging]

Hey Duncan - thanks, I'll try the nested blend approach - should have thought of that!

I think I did see that Layer 8 shader, but if it's the one I saw I believe it's only for Maya (?)

Thanks for the help.
b

[Mariano]

Hi guys, first id like to thanks to all the members posting in this thread, all are very helpful , specially Jeff Patton, and MasterZap.

My post its for a theme that has been talked before, but i got no satisfatory results with that.
Im trying to do a realistic sand shader based on a A&D material, but as u can see in the pic below its not very good yet..., ive read a post in this same thread from Ivan Ulicny, he made this tutorial (http://www.studioharmony.sk/sand/sand.html) that i think looks great, but i cant get the same results.
If someone want to help and modify, make, or just give some advice to finish this shader would be great.

thanks!

the max9 scene (http://www.sfclients.com.ar/etc/test_sand.rar)

so far..
http://www.sfclients.com.ar/etc/test.jpg

some references...

01 (http://www.sfclients.com.ar/etc/sand01.jpg)

02 (http://www.sfclients.com.ar/etc/sand02.jpg)

this (http://www.studioharmony.sk/sand/SAND.JPG) is from Ivan Ulicny

[tryhard]

Hey Duncan - thanks, I'll try the nested blend approach - should have thought of that!

I think I did see that Layer 8 shader, but if it's the one I saw I believe it's only for Maya (?)

Thanks for the help.
b


try this one from jan sandström
http://www.pixero.com/files/JS_MultiLayers.zip

works fine over here

(http://www.pixero.com/files/JS_MultiLayers.zip)

[EnigsDesigns]

Well Mariano that sand shader looks cool, but that's the thing, there are hundres of types of sand. and depend, but that one looks cool to me, it's very look-a-like the sand from my country beaches.

[simmsimaging]

try this one from jan sandström

Thanks - I did try that one but I wasn't getting far with it. I'll give it another try. Do you use it with Max 64 or 32? Maybe that was the issue for me.... I'm starting to get somewhere with nested blend materials though - thanks again Duncan. Either way, I'll post the end product if it ever gets good enough.

b

[KV99]

Played around with the new options a bit. Tried out rendering a room with skyportals and depth of field and having mental ray's glare rendered on top of it. It has no post work done whatsoever, lighting and shades are a result of photographic exposure. Image is a tad bit too bright and it took a good time to render because of very resource demanding raytraced depth of field.

Other than doing DoF in post through zdepth, there isn't alot of other choices I assume?

http://www.waher.net/Image1.jpg


Also, does anyone know where can I actually find one of the production shaders, the matteshadow one? It's supposed to have it's own material and everything, but I simply can't seem to be able to find it (and before you ask, yes I did take the hidden tags off from the shader files, they aren't supposed to be hidden, and I can find other production shaders in Max). Must be simply missing something.

[DBKenn]

Hi all -
I have been away from Mental Ray for a while and now I'm trying to figure out how to create materials to match some things I have done in Maxwell and Fry.

Have a look at this material test:

http://simmsimaging.com/CG/JustlabelTest1_03.jpg

This is a 4-5 layer material I made in Fry that is just placed on a basic cylinder with an alpha/opacity/cutout map to define the shape. I cannot figure out how to create something similar with Mental Ray. Basically I can create the different parts with different A&D material settings (gold foil, silver foil, main label area) but can't seem to get them combined into one mat like I did with MW or Fry.

How do you create complex mixed materials with MR? I tried the Composite mat - no joy because I can't seem to weight-map the different materials, they just overlay each other.

Blend might be okay, but I can only mix 2 materials and I need at least 3 (gold foil, silver foil, and main label). I could probably figure out a workaround to use Blend, but I would like to know how to do this anyway.

I tried using JS_Multilayers but either I cannot figure it out or it won't let me combine multiple alphas on one material to create the right material look and still have the cutout. I looked for some docs/help on that one but didn't find very much.

I am hoping I'm just missing something really simple, any help much appreciated. :)

b

http://www.imgplace.com/directory/dir2567/1193084514.jpg (http://www.imgplace.com/image.php?img=directory/dir2567/1193084514.jpg)
How's that? Mental Ray & A&D

[DBKenn]

Played around with the new options a bit. Tried out rendering a room with skyportals and depth of field and having mental ray's glare rendered on top of it. It has no post work done whatsoever, lighting and shades are a result of photographic exposure. Image is a tad bit too bright and it took a good time to render because of very resource demanding raytraced depth of field.

Other than doing DoF in post through zdepth, there isn't alot of other choices I assume?

http://www.waher.net/Image1.jpg


Also, does anyone know where can I actually find one of the production shaders, the matteshadow one? It's supposed to have it's own material and everything, but I simply can't seem to be able to find it (and before you ask, yes I did take the hidden tags off from the shader files, they aren't supposed to be hidden, and I can find other production shaders in Max). Must be simply missing something.\


hdri?

[simmsimaging]

How's that? Mental Ray & A&D

That's very good, however it looks to me like a label you can do in one material - it's the combination of printed label area with the two foils that I was struggling with. I basically wanted a way to have 3 different A&D materials weight mapped together. The nested blend mat seems to do the trick, just needs a bit more mental work on my part to keep track of what is where ;)

Very nice job on the paper label though - totally believable.
b

[DBKenn]

Yea well I don't know I'm doing, lol. Thanks anyway. But I'v been using MAx for like 5-6 as a hobby. So I'm no expert. I don't understand why Mental Ray doesn't have those layer thingys yet I guess that is why people use Vray.

I believe you can do it with mental ray but in a very cheesy way. I'm guessing you have to use multi-shellac within each other. Ask Jeff I'm sure he knows. I'm guessing but I'd say a Map in the gloss slot. I'd say Spec but A&D doesn't call it that, lol.

I havea question about rendering paper products. What is the theory/concept behind render realistic paper material. I use to just put an img in the diffuse and that was it. But that doesn't look realistic by any means. Currently my theory isgive it a lite bumpmap and low gloss. Anybody. Also glossy paper. Thanks.

and simmsimaging you rendering is beautiful. How did you make the bump texture map.

[Mariano]

Hey EnigsDesigns , of course you are right, to be more specific, im looking for this kind of texture.


http://www.mdss.com.ar/etc/sand.jpg

thanks!

[MasterZap]

KristoVaher - very nice image



Also, does anyone know where can I actually find one of the production shaders, the matteshadow one? It's supposed to have it's own material and everything, but I simply can't seem to be able to find it (and before you ask, yes I did take the hidden tags off from the shader files, they aren't supposed to be hidden, and I can find other production shaders in Max). Must be simply missing something.

If you unhid it, you should see it immediately in your "material" list as "mr Matte/Shadow/Reflection" !

I.e. just click a sphere in your material editor and click the button named "Standard" (or whatever is your default material type) to pick a new material type. If it is not there.... you didn't unhide it, or you broke something while unhiding stuff.... if you open the "mental ray message window" and click the "Open on Error" end restart max, does it show some errors on startup related to the production_max.mi file?

/Z

[simmsimaging]

and simmsimaging you rendering is beautiful. How did you make the bump texture map.

Thanks. I made it in Photoshop - probably using Eye-Candy filters along with some handwork to get the foil base, and then a brushed texture for the horiztontal striations. Nothing to fancy really, but I can't remember exactly how I did it now. If you also use Maxwell or Fry I have posted the material on both of their materials sites - you can get it from there.

Can't help you much on the paper stuff but I think you are on the right track. Paper always has some kind of tooth so adding bump will help. I've had some good results using high roughness values in the A&D material as well, but I haven't really done very much yet.

b

[KV99]

KristoVaher - very nice image

If you unhid it, you should see it immediately in your "material" list as "mr Matte/Shadow/Reflection" !

I.e. just click a sphere in your material editor and click the button named "Standard" (or whatever is your default material type) to pick a new material type. If it is not there.... you didn't unhide it, or you broke something while unhiding stuff.... if you open the "mental ray message window" and click the "Open on Error" end restart max, does it show some errors on startup related to the production_max.mi file?

/Z

I got it working after resetting mr files, probably made a typo somewhere before. Strangest thing. But it's there now, thanks :)

My other problem still remains though, I must be doing something wrong with the new mental ray motion blur that's added in post, since it displays the original model quite clearly beneath the post effect. I read something about time contrast in some documents, but can't seem to find them in Max (nor in their user reference for that matter). Is there a specific workflow to be followed when using mr_Motion_Blur?

[simmsimaging]

Hi all -
I'm running into an odd thing with Mental Ray:
http://simmsimaging.com/forumstuff/Mray_05.jpg

Notice that the highlight/reflection of my area light on the left is being cut-off. This corresponds to the edge of a cylinder that is used to make the label, and which is being cut out by an alpha map in an A&D material (actually - it's two A&D's put together into a Blend material)

In any case, this ONLY happens when caustics are on.

My question is: do the caustics not recognize alpha masks for object's opacity? Is there some setting in there somewhere for caustics to use alphas? If not, how would I go about creating an alpha masked object like my label, but have caustics still work?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

b

[KV99]

Yes, this is the result of the opacity map. That's probably fixed by using the production shader mr Card Opacity that makes opacity areas as 'true' opacity instead of simply looking like a different one. Can't be 100% sure, but from reading the description in theory it should work.

[simmsimaging]

That's probably fixed by using the production shader mr Card Opacity

Okay - thanks for that. I'm waiting for my copy of 2008 to arrive still - should be any day I hope. I'll check that out. Is anyone aware of workarounds for the current version (I'm using Max9)


b

[MasterZap]

Yes, this is the result of the opacity map. That's probably fixed by using the production shader mr Card Opacity that makes opacity areas as 'true' opacity instead of simply looking like a different one. Can't be 100% sure, but from reading the description in theory it should work.

No, the opacity function in mia_material is actually the same as "mr Card Opacity" so that shouldn't change anything.

Are you saying you have a separate cylinder for the label, with an opacity map? And this affects the highlights on the glass... hmm... it shouldn't.

OH WAIT:
Which max version? Original Max 9 or the service pack?
There was an issue w. the importance propagation and opacity in the original max 9 release.... that could perhaps have this "effect"... hmm. It shouldn't have anything to do with caustics though... hmm....

/Z

[simmsimaging]

Are you saying you have a separate cylinder for the label, with an opacity map? And this affects the highlights on the glass... hmm... it shouldn't.

OH WAIT:
Which max version? Original Max 9 or the service pack?
There was an issue w. the importance propagation and opacity in the original max 9 release.... that could perhaps have this "effect"... hmm. It shouldn't have anything to do with caustics though... hmm....


Hi - thanks for getting back on this. It is a separate cylinder for the label, and it is opacity mapped, but that is done within the sub-materials of a Blend material and it is looking like that Blend mat is the source of the problem.

I have two A&D materials in the Blend, both with opacity maps. Each one has an opacity map of it's own and each one works just fine if used alone on the cylinder - caustics etc are just fine. If I put them together in a Blend material it works okay for everything BUT caustics - then the opacity maps don't work and I get that result I posted above.

I am currently trying to stick the Blend mat itself in a "material to shader" and put THAT inside an A&D material's diffuse colour slot, and then opacity map that final A&D mat. Not sure if it will work yet, but this seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through through. Is there simpler way to make a mixed material?

Thanks in advance,
b

edit: we're using the service pack and atm it's Max 64bit

[KV99]

Unless I'm doing something very wrong, there seems to be a problem with Illumination Glow material. It isn't seemingly able to actually have final gather affect it's results. Here is a rectangle with illuminated material attached (in physically correct environment). Glows parameters are 1500cd strength, with D65White color, the image is gammacorrected in Max 2.2 and rendered through photographic exposure control.

http://www.waher.net/inaccurate.jpg


Only thing lighting the entire scene is the final gather solution, set to default 'medium' parameters. However, bounces (5) do not seem to be affecting the solution, and it is extremely splotchy.

Another test is done with a photometric free area light with the exact same physical properties. Final gathers bounces are taken into account here and all other parameters (exposure and gamma) are identical to the previous render.

http://www.waher.net/correct.jpg

I'm not exactly sure if that is intentional or not, but Max demonstration video seemed to imply that object turned into a light source through glow can be used to accurately illuminate the scene.

Of course, there's a chance that I might be doing something wrong and there's a misstep in my workflow, any ideas?

And before someone says this, I do know that you cannot expect the same results from both, since glow does not have a direct illumination in it per se, but final gather bounces should at least work no? And the amount of splotches with the two renders that have same finalgather and physical settings is somewhat scary.

[EnigsDesigns]

Hmm... can't help you there...

Hey how can i make a shader similar to white gold? I'm kinda new to this and all i could get is some kind of bright plastic... i even tried to use the Chrome shader and mod through there but still no go...

Can someone explain what the big deal with white gold that i can't recreate it?
(Or maybe i'm just a dumbass that's missing something that's right in front of me...)
wich is very possible lol. xD

[KV99]

Yes it seems you stumbled twice in a row. The thing is that neither bright plastic nor chrome are any close to white gold. Plastic isn't since plastic utilizes diffuse color, which white gold itself likely does not. And chrome, since chrome is all about specularity, aka mirror reflections. The 'key' is usually glossy reflections and subtle tweaking of reflection colors and brightness. I made a quick test that - while not very close to white gold - is possibly a good starting point for tweaking.

It basically reflects near white (but not full white color), it being glossy reflection around 0.65, reflection itself is full 1.0.

Also, when making a material, don't forget that especially with metal materials it's very important for them to reflect something. This test looks very different in an environment with very plain and not contrasting surroundings.

Anyways, this one still needs more tweaking but if that's anything close to what you're after then good:

http://www.waher.net/whitegold.jpg

[Spacelord]

Yep this has always been a problem with cranking up the FG, its same in Max9, its self illumination, not a very nice way of doing it. Autodesk should have added Object lights, photons, area shadows, it would have been great.



http://www.waher.net/inaccurate.jpg