CGTalk - Mental Ray

igsiv

06-02-2006, 06:12 PM

thanks, maxplugins. Some articles will soon translated.

But re-ordering is only of any use if I've got MR standalone... If I haven't got the standalone renderer, does that mean this shader won't work properly in Max?

yes, in max it won't stable work. More over in max for big scenes with many elements to get right render with geolight will be very hard because number of possible order variation in root groop also will grow. Then rendering Max scene with sntandalone will be the only possibly way.

What I'm trying to say - this is not (any) 3d app fault, it seems this is own weak point of mental ray (may be i wrong).
In fact geolight use geometry shader for modifying properties of already existing scene element (light). Then appear dependance between geometry shader and that scene element. Ordinary 3d app generate root group list in random order and ordinary that is asseptable. But not in this case. Now in root group appear two elements, one depend from other and this relation must be properly processed by own means of mr.

JAF

06-02-2006, 07:38 PM

Jeff, i've checked back the thread and nothing working for me. I know you asked the same thing...

I'm pretty sure Vormav could build the shader. He did the matte_irradiance shader and it's working fine. If he could add "some lines of code" to his shader to have a full matte shader...
:rolleyes: :shrug:
I can't believe noone built it... It would be really fair if someone could share this shader.
I hope i don't ask too much here, sry.
Regards.

igsiv

06-02-2006, 08:02 PM

I already wrote about Maya - exist simple trick for translator to fix error with right reordering root group in export time . Try to export mi from Maya with geolight. While root group will generate randomly, Maya newer allow "wrong" combinations where geolight instance stay after light instance. May be they know about this problem.

gulio

06-04-2006, 11:45 AM

So, if I´ve got all the info right, which I´ve read about creating renderpasses with MR in Max, then there is a major difference in the way these passes can be created. The standard would be to go to the renderelements tab and add passes as one like, with the drawback that these passes rely on the rendering of the whole image and are output only as a part of it.
The second appoach is the way the shaders of francescaluce (ctrl_buffer) and Puppet| (mega_tk) are working, in that they can output internal computed passelements of MR.
My first Q is: Am I right with the above?
And my 2nd: Does anybody knows in which way the RenderPassManager Plugin creates it´s Passes

http://www.rpmanager.com/index.htm

Any reply is very appreciated

/gulio

jacquess

06-07-2006, 05:20 PM

hi, i was making carpaints, based on this jeff's carpaint (link (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2907888&postcount=2852)) and using jaguar "design your car" (http://www.jaguar.co.uk/uk/en/tools_servic%20es/Design/design_your_jaguar.htm) as reference.
i have made 16 carpaints from that page, so, if anybody is interested in them, i'm sharing the files :)
carpaints (from top left to right bottom order) are called (as jaguar originals): british racing green, jaguar racing green, ebony, midnight, frost blue, ultravioler, indigo, zircon, radiance, salsa, liquid silver, quartz, seafrost, slate, white onyx, winter gold

"studio" render
http://jacquess.3dstudio.cz/free/carpaints/all_spheres01.jpg

and now with hdr environment
http://jacquess.3dstudio.cz/free/carpaints/all_spheres02.jpg

matlib is here (http://jacquess.3dstudio.cz/free/carpaints/carpaints01.zip)
and 3ds max 8 scene with settings for these renders is here (http://jacquess.3dstudio.cz/free/carpaints/spheres01.zip)
mental ray render of course :)

hjalle

06-07-2006, 05:27 PM

Thank's jacquess.

EquiNOX

06-07-2006, 06:06 PM

Looks good :thumbsup: Thanks for sharing.

rodrigogua

06-07-2006, 11:18 PM

that rocks, thansk a lot!!

shinnokSK

06-08-2006, 08:19 AM

thnx man :thumbsup: very nice. hned dnes ich vyskusam :bounce:

Mhyrdin

06-08-2006, 01:14 PM

Really fine these shaders ! :thumbsup:

havokzprodigy

06-11-2006, 02:51 AM

Paint shaders look great.

How can we add metal flake that sparkles in the paint?
Similar to the lowrider paint on the movie Cars or like this picture?
http://www.crypticgraphics.com/images/Tribal%20Blue%20Metalflake%201.JPG

Thanks I'm really interested in this effect.

EquiNOX

06-11-2006, 03:11 AM

add cellular in one of those slots

havokzprodigy

06-11-2006, 03:38 AM

add cellular in one of those slots

Any more info?
Like what slot should it go in?
How can I make them shimmer(appear,disapper) and glow? Post effect?

Thanks a million.

Almost it, maybe a more qualified person can translate this into the effect I'm after.
http://www.lamrug.org/resources/doc/paint.html#mi_bump_flakes

cu441es

06-11-2006, 11:29 AM

Hi. THis is a great thread and i love mentalray :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I have a favour to ask. If anyone has the edited .mi files for max 8 could they please upload them somewhere or e-mail them to me. my e-mail is jonathanwoodley@hotmail.co.uk.

Thanks in advance
CU44...

havokzprodigy

06-12-2006, 12:01 AM

http://home.comcast.net/~csoderholm/test_flake.jpg
Modified version of the car paint material included in the .mat file posted.

Almost there.

havokzprodigy

06-12-2006, 12:01 AM

Double post. sorry.

3DMadness

06-12-2006, 01:21 PM

Almost it, maybe a more qualified person can translate this into the effect I'm after.
http://www.lamrug.org/resources/doc/paint.html#mi_bump_flakes
It would be great if we have this car paint shader in max. ;)

maxplugins

06-12-2006, 02:41 PM

It would be great if we have this car paint shader in max. ;)

It'll probably be in the next version of Max. The last version was just a bit early to get the car paint shader included. If you've got access to Maya, you can copy the car paint shader over to Max, it works just fine.

Dave

Jered

06-13-2006, 05:53 AM

Modified version of the car paint material included in the .mat file posted.

Almost there.

Looks awesome, havokzprodigy. What were the mods you made to get the nice flake?

Nice paint jacquess. Thanks for sharing!

havokzprodigy

06-13-2006, 01:23 PM

Looks awesome, havokzprodigy. What were the mods you made to get the nice flake?

Nice paint jacquess. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks
I have a even better one now.
I will upload the scene file and all the info on the parameters as soon as I get home from work.

Bao2

06-13-2006, 09:40 PM

http://www.lamrug.org/resources/doc...#mi_bump_flakes (http://www.lamrug.org/resources/doc/paint.html#mi_bump_flakes)
It would be great if we have this car paint shader in max. ;)

Here (http://dodownload.filefront.com/5169103//f8efb6e09096c05209d023d2c32f45abb6e14ebbc020b43e03ab78b9b74732105810edf778c61d2b) it is.
Mirror (http://212.51.33.74/cb/cgtalk/CarPaint.zip)
Not tested yet myself (because of the fifa world cup of course :))

Edited: This shader is included in Max9 so you don't need download it if you are in Max9.
The people using this shader and then upgrading to Max9 will find the scenes with this shader reset to defaults in Max9 (probably red carpaint), it is because the shader in Max9 has a different order (parameters grouped with the struct command). Is not possible post here
a shader compatible with the Max9 because I would need to know the names used for each
grouping of parameters.

SoLiTuDe

06-17-2006, 08:07 AM

It'll probably be in the next version of Max. The last version was just a bit early to get the car paint shader included. If you've got access to Maya, you can copy the car paint shader over to Max, it works just fine.

Dave

When I open max with the files from maya added to my autoload directory it gets an api error in line 173 and line 195 while defining phenomenon declaration "mi__car_paint_phen" call to undeclared function mib_glossy_reflection" and undefined shader "mi_car_paint_phen::reflection"

Edit: while i try and learn this stuff... is there a way to get mental ray to reload (ie like when you first start max) without having to restart max? I don't want to keep opening and closing max all the time just to see if this shader will load.

Edit #2: Hehe... finally got a gui to show up in max -- but the shader still has lots of errors. I'll leave this one up to the pros and maybe get a book on this stuff when i want to learn it :)

maxplugins

06-17-2006, 11:34 AM

Virtuaman

06-17-2006, 04:01 PM

Hey guys,

somebody here can tell me where can I find the Dirtmap download and to install in 3DS Max? I really can´t get it in anywhere!!http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon9.gif

TKS,
André

SoLiTuDe

06-17-2006, 07:35 PM

I've uploaded the .mi file for the carpaint shader to my site.
There is also an updated base.mi which has the declarations for mib_glossy_reflections and mib_glossy refractions added.
You can get it here: http://www.maxplugins.de/mr_files/carpaint_includes.zip

Dave

Thanks Dave... you da man! Would've taken me years to figure all that out. =) I figured out the base.mi differences, but nonetheless the paint.mi I was lost. I'll learn a lot from that I think. Anywho -- Thanks!

EquiNOX

06-17-2006, 07:56 PM

Thanks Dave :thumbsup: will check em out.

Bao2

06-17-2006, 11:52 PM

Hey guys,
somebody here can tell me where can I find the Dirtmap download and to install in 3DS Max? I really can´t get it in anywhere!!

Dirtmap: Posts 117, 122, 129, 272-273, 458-459, 739, 885

EquiNOX

06-18-2006, 11:29 PM

Bao2

06-19-2006, 02:38 AM

How should Paint shader set up in Max's MR? I download paint.mi from Maxplugin and it worked when running Max, but it doesn't give effects or change color when I place that in diffuse slot. does anyone know how to set up this paint shader??

I don't know if that .mi is different but in mine (post 3278) you have a new material
named "CarPaint (Phen)" and you only need use that. It is not a texture, is a material. I
decided let unhidden some textures but probably would be better hide them if there are
not use for them (I not tested yet myself this shader, still the worldcup :)). ¡Opá, vamos a por el mundiá!

EquiNOX

06-19-2006, 02:47 AM

I would download to try your shader... but your file link from "filefront" keep saying "Your download has failed. There were no available download servers. Click here to try your download again."

So is there any alternatives? If I was able to download your shader.. what do I need to do get paint on the object in Max with MR render?

Bao2

06-19-2006, 03:21 AM

"filefront" keep saying "Your download has failed. There were no available download servers. Click here to try your download again."

Yes, I tested myself just now and Filefront is very busy. Try later. Tomorrow I will see
if a mirror is needed.:shrug:

Yourworstnightmare

06-19-2006, 03:42 AM

Don't those .mi's need the .dll's to work?

Edit:

Tried the paint material and I get this set of errors,

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8935/wa9dl.jpg

Any way to get the .dll's?

maxplugins

06-19-2006, 09:02 AM

Um, the DLLs were posted on the previous page:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=3631429&postcount=3278

That's why I did the includes...

Dave

Bao2

06-19-2006, 12:54 PM

"filefront" keep saying "Your download has failed. There were no available download servers. Click here to try your download again."

Check again post 3278. I 've added a Mirror.
Read the file install.txt. When installed you now have a new material "CarPaint (Phen)"
and also some new textures (but probably without use for them, not tested myself yet).

Mhyrdin

06-19-2006, 07:04 PM

Thank's all for these carpaint shaders, dll and .mi
Very interesting parameters :thumbsup:
Bao2 thank's for the mirror, the archieve on the first server seems to be corrupt ...

Geser

06-20-2006, 09:27 AM

Hello!
I try to bake reflection with mentalray in 3dsmax. In material in reflection slot I use raytrace map. For baking I use render to texture dialog. But reflection is not baked. Please help!!

I have read that may be i need to use shader mib_lightmap_write, but i can't find it in 3dsmax also. Advices much appreciated.

CupOWonton

06-24-2006, 02:30 AM

Hm, does anyone have any information on how to use the Glossy Reflect and Glossy Refract bases? I keep getting black or white out of em.

Bao2

06-25-2006, 12:30 AM

Today I was testing the CarPaint (Phen) material (Post 3278).
I just opened a file with a car and changed the material using
the default settings.
I think is lovely how it works, seems very accurate.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5801/coche9li.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5801/coche9li.jpg)

I would love someone here with a good car scene could make a render
using this CarPaint (Phen) using the defaults settings and show us
the new render and the old render without this CarPaint (Phen).

CupOWonton

06-25-2006, 07:33 AM

Ok, ive somewhat figured out the glossy reflection base, for now, but does anyone know how to work the glossy refraction base? Cause Im REALY clueless on that one.

dave-3d

06-25-2006, 09:34 AM

Ok, ive somewhat figured out the glossy reflection base, for now, but does anyone know how to work the glossy refraction base? Cause Im REALY clueless on that one.

The internet is full of questions like "I have a problem with ... XYZ"

AND, unfortunately, with answers like "Never mind, I fixed it" or "Got it".

If you are searching for an answer to a problem, answers like that are are highly frustrating (and bloody useless).

How about taking a few minutes (like others who have popsted here) to explain clearly what you have found ? That is what this thread is for. Sharing and swapping our experiences of MR ;)

Also, what are you trying to achieve with the Glossy Reflect and Glossy Refract bases ? Do you have anything specific you are trying to do ?

Dave

CupOWonton

06-25-2006, 05:52 PM

Ok, The LONG version.

There are 3 material slots within the refraction base. WHAT do you put in those? Also, do you have to put the refraction base within another material or can it be its own surface for a Mentalray material? I figure the glossy settings are the same as the reflection base, but nothing changes when I start working with it. I attempted placing glass materials within the slots, and it looked like glass for sure, but there were no changes in the glossyness.

EquiNOX

06-25-2006, 09:34 PM

Bao2 Since you could make a car paint (Phen) Material, think you could write for Leather material too? because I think its pretty hard to create leather materials. Any suggestions?

JAF

06-26-2006, 12:31 AM

Why don't you try this link EquiNOX?
http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/leather_material/leather_material.htm

EquiNOX

06-26-2006, 01:08 AM

Why don't you try this link EquiNOX?
http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/leather_material/leather_material.htm

I did..... I visited there before.... I tried it before... Did not succed! Pointless for me.... I am not saying its bad, I do think his site is very good but there is no way I could just get it right with MR, Neil Belvins explained one for Scanline render not MR.

Bao2

06-26-2006, 01:19 AM

Bao2 Since you could make a car paint (Phen) Material, think you could write for Leather material too?

I've not coded the CarPaint (Phen). Is mental images who did it.

For leather Neil Blevins as pointed has a great one. You can try and upload here
and if we think is wrong then I will upload mine. But first show yours.

EquiNOX

06-26-2006, 02:11 AM

I've not coded the CarPaint (Phen). Is mental images who did it.

For leather Neil Blevins as pointed has a great one. You can try and upload here
and if we think is wrong then I will upload mine. But first show yours.

This is what I got, this look terrible. See attached file if would like to.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/APrather/Leather.jpg

The material, I got the idea off from Loran see post-->(2974 & 2977) http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3314998&highlight=Leather#post3314998

Bao2

06-26-2006, 01:25 PM

See attached file if would like to.

That .3ds file has no material on it.:arteest:

EquiNOX

06-26-2006, 04:51 PM

Here's another attached of zipped drive. This time saved straight away .3ds rather than export .3ds like the previous one. Have a look at it and hope the material is included along with that file. However, last night i continued making many test render and found something better, I think I m pretty close on getting material to look right. I realize the previous one look horrible due to incorrect light setting and intensity, now this one looks a little better (See pic)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/APrather/ImprovedLeather.jpg

zipped file
VVVVVVV

ttc

06-26-2006, 07:51 PM

hi all :)

do you have any problem with matlib??...when i open a matlib a second time(max8sp3)...i got empty matlib!!!?????????..if i save the matlib or not it's the same merdier!!?
..i am very desapointed! :)

have a good day!

Bao2

06-26-2006, 10:26 PM

Here's another attached of zipped drive. This time saved straight away .3ds rather than export .3ds

I recommend you forget about the .3ds format. Use always .max files.

Well I attached your file modified. Open it and open the material editor.
Your material 01 is the original. To the 02 I added a checker to see reflection
in the leather. Render and you can see your leather has reflection. Also you can see artifacts (grain) you can avoid increasing the samples (from 1/4 - 4 like it is just now to 1/4 - 16 or more).
So now apply the MR Leather1 and render. This is more like real leather because
the bump used. A shader list was used in the surface slot of the mental ray material. In
the shader list a bump and your dgs are used.

You can try the Weird1 material to see a fun material.
Apply the MR Leather2 and render. With this color it seems more real leather now.
Apply the MR Leather3 and render. Now with no reflection is better. All the three
materials are mental ray materials because you asked for a mental ray material
but in my opinion it is better using a normal material so you can extract the material
from the material to shader of this last material and using it directly, even is a bit
quicker in rendertime.

I recommend you reading the Neil Blevins tutorial and download the sample file there. This
leather was created thanks to that tutorial.

EquiNOX

06-28-2006, 12:38 AM

My leather material Test using MR DGS material (Couch were downloaded for free by unknown modeler)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/APrather/LeatherCouchTest.jpg

I have also tried Neil Blevins's method using standard material. It went pretty well, but I thought DGS look much better althrough they may be slow at render time due to noise and celluar map. Any Crits and comments? Disregard the artifacts (Legs under couch)

Edit: Oops forgot to mention... Bao2 thanks for your help :thumbsup:

loran

06-28-2006, 08:36 AM

Here is a DGS leather I ve done for a sofa seller (http://www.burov.com/)

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/galerie/leather-mr1.jpg

rdg

06-28-2006, 10:56 AM

loran

06-28-2006, 12:10 PM

shader list can hepl you to combine multiples shader effects. for example as camera shader with dof shader + fisheye

dont use DGS as a base shader but set it in the surface channel under mentalray material. This way you can add bump and any other channels.

rdg

06-28-2006, 01:04 PM

ok. I see.

Still I cannot use it intuitively ;) - Ocean(Lume) worked, too.
Thank you.

Georg

-Vormav-

06-29-2006, 11:36 AM

Hello,

could someone explain how the "shader list" shader works?
I read the documentation and know that it stacks shaders and passes the output from one to another.

Is there another use other than combing a bump with a dgs, like in your examples?
As soon as a bitmap is in the list only the bitmap seems to be rendered. But I assume there are other valid combinations?

Maybe this of interest for other, too?
Or maybe someone can point me to a document where this is discussed form a 'user point of view'?

Georg
Shader lists can conceivably be used for anything. The only catch is that the shader kind of needs to be coded to handle it, and they usually aren't.
Think of it this way: Normally in Mental Ray, you create materials by combining shaders together in a complex network of nodes - a sort of tree structure. Shader lists, on the other hand, are linear layers, much like what you'd have in Photoshop. You could do an illumination model this way: a specular layer that adds itself to a diffuse layer that multiplies itself onto a diffuse color. Something like that can work fine, just as long as each higher-up layer knows exactly what to do with the values beneath it. But shaders usually aren't written that way, so you won't find many that work through shader lists.
State shaders are the main exception, and a bump mapping shader is a perfect example of this: Bump mapping shaders are really just state shaders. To be more specific, they just modify point normals of the miState structure. So, when a shader further along in the list is processed, it's being given an miState structure with bumped normals.

But, like I said, you won't generally find many uses for shader lists. There's always another way of getting the same effect in a network of nodes anyway.

CycloneS

07-01-2006, 05:33 PM

Hey everyone. I just finished reading all 221 pages of this thread! There is so much useful information here that someone could write a book ;)

So I would like to make a contribution to this thread. This thread started out with Jeff Patton who would post his shaders and scenes files. Other members would do the same and collaborate together and make more shaders. As I was reading the pages less and less people would contribute and more and more people would ask questions and not contribute working scene/mat files that would help any new mental ray user.

Part of the reason may because deetee’s mental ray uploader went down. ¾ of the links in this thread are down because of this. Well I have lots of bandwidth on my server and will be willing to host any mental ray related files. Max scene files, mat files, shaders etc.

Feel free to send me an email and I will put up a link and host it.

Cyclone.Chris@gmail.com

My hope is we can continue to share our files and learn. :)

CycloneS

07-01-2006, 05:36 PM

Jeff Patton and everyone else who contributed to this mental ray discussion thank you for your continued efforts!

Also there is a website called www.yousendit.com (http://www.yousendit.com) that will temporarily host large files for you. It only allows the file to downloadedd 7 times though but you could uploaded it and then email me the link and i will host it for you.

Cruzifer

07-03-2006, 10:14 AM

hi everyone,
I´d like to have fog inside of an object and the ability to move a camera trough it. I already tried to put a mist shader/submerge into the volume slot but with no luck.i'am sure someone can help me out.

cheers Cruzifer

Ian Jones

07-03-2006, 02:39 PM

Ihh peoples

I ve just post a tutorial on Path-Material. this powerfull Physically correct GI mentalray material is doing by itself! power full as Maxwell but slow...slow...and noisy. Anyway, it can be use to verify what is correct or not in your scene renders.
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/tutorials/images/pathtrace-05.jpg

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/

Very cool, but I'm having trouble using it. I'm using max8, I have unlocked it, select a mental ray material, then Path Material for the surface slot... but I get no options to enter lights. That part is totally missing. Anyone know why?

Ian Jones

07-03-2006, 02:48 PM

Well, I found a solution. It was just my inexperience with mi files. Loran's mini tutorial neglects to mention that you have to also unhide the light UI option a few lines below aswell.

loran

07-03-2006, 03:27 PM

SOrry, maybe I missed it. I have unhide so many things in that files :)
don t forget to show us your results!

Ian Jones

07-04-2006, 06:46 AM

Ahh yeh, easy to miss, thx so much for the tute. Results... well if the renders finish. Wow, they sure do take a long time and require very high settings for smoothness. I will post any nice results I get from my experiments.

scorpion007

07-04-2006, 07:51 AM

CupOWonton

07-07-2006, 12:44 AM

How do I get a glass sphere or any glass object realy to have a depth fog inside it AND also cast a shadow that reflects the occlusion of that fog? Vray did this rather automaticly, and Im having a hell of a time figuring it out with mentalray, I just havent gotten my head wrapped around all these " lume" and such concepts.

cu441es

07-07-2006, 05:30 PM

Bao2

07-08-2006, 11:06 AM

Hi,

I'm sure that lots of people in this thread ujse 3ds max 8. If you do could you please send me the edited .mi files, because when I tried to do it i did it wrong and had to re install the app.

In the folder of the .mi files create a new folder named \backup and place there
a copy of the files you are going to modify. So if anything is wrong you simply recover
from the copy.
I always maintain a .txt file with the changes I do to the app.

The Nemesiah

07-08-2006, 07:06 PM

Hi, I´ve read some of this post and I´m very interested in what can be acomplished with the glare shader, however I don´t understand how to set it up, I´ve erased the "hidden" in the lume.mi file but it doesn´t show up, I also don´t know where to put it for it to work, I´m working on Max 8, could any body explain to me what to do?

Thanks

Yourworstnightmare

07-09-2006, 06:02 PM

That shader is not a material, it's an output shader, you enable it from the MR render tab. just pick it as an output shader and it works.

Yourworstnightmare

07-09-2006, 06:06 PM

Because I have nothing better to do, I'm always dissecting the MR include files, doing so I have found many useful shaders, some that are useless, and some that just don't work. There is a geometry instance shader which I would love to use, but when ever I try to use it it gives me an error and crashes Max, something about accesing some null db. Has anyone ever tried this before, if so, did you get it to work?

The Nemesiah

07-09-2006, 11:11 PM

That shader is not a material, it's an output shader, you enable it from the MR render tab. just pick it as an output shader and it works.

Thanks a lot, I was going crazy over here, life is a little better now.

I hope I have something worthwile to show you guys some time soon

CupOWonton

07-10-2006, 11:09 PM

Here's some examples of what Im trying to achieve with MentalRay materials.

http://www.aversis.be/extra_tutorials/vray_basic_material_settings_02.htm

That is of course Vray, but Im trying to get the same outcome as the dark red and green foggy glass materials:

A Material that has reflection, refraction, an internal fog that can go from black to a color depending on the thickness, and a shadow that can be cast without caustics that also darkens or shows color depending on the fogs thickness. I would realy love to get help with this. I know its not a normaly used material, but I loved doing thick glass renders with Vray and I'd love to continue using MentalRay to do that as well.

JeffPatton

07-11-2006, 02:35 PM

The physical glass aka dielectric glass will provide the correct color shift based on thickness. You may also want to try the L-glass shader (go to maxplugins.de and search for it). However I think it's also based on the dielectric glass. But it has more functionality.

Naturally the Phong Coefficient doesn't have anything to do with the color depth topic here...but since I had adjusted it from the defualt setting of 0.0 I thought I should explain it's use.

CupOWonton

07-11-2006, 08:36 PM

Youre right, there is a fog. I just didnt have the settings so incredibly small.

Now, is there a way to get it to project a shadow thats based around that fog thickness?

CycloneS

07-14-2006, 01:03 AM

I'm trying to make an eye like ones from this moth below. I got it kinda close but not quite.

http://inspiredvisuals.com/Cgtalk/Eye.jpg

This is my attempt at the eye shader.

http://inspiredvisuals.com/Cgtalk/eye_test.jpg

I am using a Mental Ray Base Material with Metal Lume for it's surface. There is a DGS Material in the Diffuse Slot for the Metal Lume Surface Material and a 3ds Max Bump with tiles for the Diffuse in the DGS.

My Idea idea was to have a bit of the environment reflect in the eye but still keep the look of the eyes in the photos.

Any ideas on how to improve this shader to better match the photos?
Thanks.

EquiNOX

07-14-2006, 02:30 AM

Actually, you don't need MR shader... You could try Blend Mat... Here's my try
Slot 1: Raytrace Mat
Diffuse --> Gradient (combo color of fly's eye)
Reflect --> Falloff, Perpendicular/Parallel
Bump --> (If you want) Bitmap image of honeycomb
Slot 2: Standard Mat
Diffuse/Ambient--> set color to black
Slot 3: Bitmap Image of Honeycomb or some kind of texture for fly eye

CycloneS

07-14-2006, 07:48 AM

Thanks EquiNOX I got something more like I wanted :)
I tried your suggestions but I couldn't get it to work quite right but you gave me an idea by using a Falloff(Perpendicular/Parallel) map. Totally forgot about that.

It's almost there but it's not looking quite the same as a real bug eye should look. I'm trying to re-create that inner specular highlight like in the photos.

Also for some reason i'm getting strange artifacs...fall off map causing this?

Updated Shader:
Standard Max Shader with Honeycomb Bump Map. Falloff Map set Perpendicular/Parallel in the Specular Level Slot.

http://www.inspiredvisuals.com/Cgtalk/Eye2.jpg

Artifacts
I increased the glossyness so they show up a little better

http://www.inspiredvisuals.com/Cgtalk/Artifacts.jpg

gxsaurav

07-16-2006, 02:28 PM

i would like to ask about how to make cloth materials in 3Ds Max 8

right now, i do 2 things

1) Architectural material->Fabric template->A texture in Diffuse slot & in bump slot

2) Standerd material ->A texture in Diffuse slot & in bump slotm with no sepculear

but this material is solid, doesn't lets light pass through it...as happens in real life cloths, like bed sheet, curtains etc. How to do it, i suppose SSS can do this but then the render time will increse

jigu

07-16-2006, 04:20 PM

@gxsaurav :: u can use standard oren nayer blinn shader for cloth with "falloff" map.Use it in opacity slot and u will get nice passing of lights through ur cloths.

ienrdna

07-16-2006, 07:38 PM

hi ,all this is awesome thread!
I just downloaded files from first page of this thread and I get some errors about missing dll's
and stuff. Is it because of that I use Max8, and files were made with older versions?

Yourworstnightmare

07-18-2006, 01:09 AM

It's because you need both include files and the shaders, thse are .mi files and .dll files, and they need be in the correct path too.

KV99

07-20-2006, 12:41 AM

It's kinda confusing.. Has anyone uploaded the edited *.mi files for Max8 that has the most basic and common stuff unlocked? Yeah I unlocked glare, but those files have billion 'hidden's written in them and I've had to reinstall a couple of times now, not really knowing 'where exactly' and 'what' I have to delete to get access to most things that work 90% of the time.

Since the original *.mi collection was deleted, I just wondered if there is an updated collection available someplace?

JeffPatton

07-20-2006, 01:53 AM

In .mi files you can disable code by using the pound sign #.

As such, the safest & best way to handle the hidden tags is to simply put a # in front of them. That way nothing is deleted and you can always go back and remove the # to enable the hidden command and restore the .mi file to a working condition...without the need to reinstall/repair 3dsmax.

KV99

07-20-2006, 09:30 PM

Thanks, but I am somewhat aware of C and C++ syntax, the code itself was not confusing. However the amount of include files and things hidden went way over my head, so I'm just wondering which are the 'essential' things I should un-hide and where from?

I know glare is one of them, from lume.mi, and then that realistic dof from physics.mi, but there is no place I can actually get information from what is and is not useful and/or working, so maybe you could at least point out the useful things that are currently hidden, but work somewhat when hidden tag is taken off?

EDIT: And a side-question. Any way to actually make a mesh into a light-emitting object with mentalray? Yes, I know, using glow as diffuse I can make it emit some light, but it has a certain radius and it doesnt actually 'light' anything other than that radius very close by. Changing other settings do not seem to make it actually emit light further than that really small radius. Anyone knows whats wrong?

JeffPatton

07-21-2006, 01:48 PM

but there is no place I can actually get information from what is and is not useful and/or workingSure there is...this very thread.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2339882&postcount=2340

Any way to actually make a mesh into a light-emitting object with mentalray? A couple of pages back (starting around page 211 I think), there's a discussion about using francescaluce's geolight shader. Unfortunately, it's not 100% compatible with 3dsmax and the discussion has died off about it so I'm not sure if anything is going on with finding a solution (or even if a solution is possible)....since you're familiar with programming...maybe you'll be able to find a solution! :bounce:

I posted an example render here, with some rather lengthy instructions:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=104578&page=214&pp=15

NBF

07-21-2006, 05:51 PM

Jeff just wandering if you have ordered or read the mental ray handbook?
If so, did you find it to be worth your money?
Thanks,
Nick

slebed

07-22-2006, 12:42 AM

I purchased the MR book and I found it very help. It gave me an insight into why you work certain ways in MR.

Mehran-Moghtadai

07-22-2006, 05:15 PM

I made a super awsome material using L_glass and the Parti_volume shader and thought it would be cool if I shared it here.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1495/3399/1600/Hazy%20Glass.0.jpg

the name of the material is "Hazy_Glass" and you can download the .mat file from my blog (http://mentalmehran.blogspot.com/) there is also a fast explanation of how it's done.

It would also be great if I could get some feedback.

CycloneS

07-23-2006, 12:48 AM

Thanks don_bertone, looks like a cool shader! I will post some of mine to when I have time.

I was wondering how you can get ambient occlusion to work with the sss fast skin shader? I have a model resting on a leaf and i need those little shadows so it doesn't look like its floating. When i composite a seperate pass on on top of the leaf in photoshop i lose some of the translucency from the sss shader.

Thanks.

Bao2

07-23-2006, 02:50 PM

I made a super awsome material using L_glass and the Parti_volume shader and thought it would be cool if I shared it here.
the name of the material is "Hazy_Glass"

I would like to see the max scene file. I am curious about scale, lights, and so.

Mehran-Moghtadai

07-24-2006, 02:07 AM

sure no problem but this one is quite diffrent but same principle, for some reason I deleted the old scene file used for that test.

This scene file is for this render (http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/204/a/a/Duality_is_Bliss__by_DonBertone.jpg).

Note that the reflection pass that you see in that render are from another file. Also you'll realise that no lights were used. But i'm sure you'll figure all that out. Final gather is vital in this render.

I really need to manage my files better.

EDIT: I also have to point out that the way I used this shader is very weird because usually the Parti_volume shader is used with the parti_volume_photon algorithme. But I only used the Parti_Volume shader since there are no lights in the scene. I think this is something that no one has actually tried before. But I would really like to have Jeff Patton's say on this.

EDIT 2: I forgot that devart doesn't allow hotlinking. Just go on my page (http://donbertone.deviantart.com) and you'll see it there.

rodrigogua

07-24-2006, 04:48 AM

devart does not allow hot linking but i managed to get to see the render

Geser

07-24-2006, 04:55 AM

Hello all!
Can you give me tips on how to bake reflection with MR?
I have material with reflection map (falloff) and when I look render from camera I see that some parts reflect more, some less. If I bake it with scanline, I have in texture right result (if to aplly baked texture to model, it has the same view as render from camera with reflection).
But if I bake with MR, in texture all parts became too reflective. Seems to me, MR does not take map into account. That's the problem, I can't solve. May be there are some tips?

KV99

07-25-2006, 04:43 PM

A simple test with shellac and falloff :)

http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/chesspawns.jpg

KV99

07-30-2006, 12:33 PM

And another test, again with falloff, attempting to combine glossy reflections with raytrace material ones.

http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/balls.jpg (http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/balls.jpg)

KV99

07-30-2006, 07:25 PM

I have a problem creating diffraction (or was it dispersion?). I've read through this thread (though with no great focus) and noticed some references to Maya's and XSI's diffraction and the like, but haven't managed to pull it off in Max with a render other than 'faking' it based on Jeff's site.

This one here has three images rendered with different IOR and combined with RGB, then created differential opacity map and used that to combine the diffraction colors into main image layer. (or is there a better way to achieve that?)

http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/refraction.jpg

Mehran-Moghtadai

07-30-2006, 11:12 PM

For the Dispersion effect you can use the mighty L_glass shader which is great. But the Disperssion effect won't be Physically Correct. But it will look real.

Bao2

08-03-2006, 03:49 PM

Seems there is not a good pearl material available free nor a tutorial with a good looking pearl material.
So I was trying do myself and this is what I have. I also show my reference photo.
I think is not perfect but perhaps someone want try enhance.

This is the reference photo:

http://www.actualidadeconomica.com/2005/06/23/perla.jpg

And here is the scene and the render:

Bao2

08-03-2006, 04:41 PM

1) sure no problem but this one is quite diffrent but same principle, for some reason I deleted the old scene file used for that test.

2) I also have to point out that the way I used this shader is very weird because usually the Parti_volume shader is used with the parti_volume_photon algorithme. But I only used the Parti_Volume shader since there are no lights in the scene. I think this is something that no one has actually tried before. But I would really like to have Jeff Patton's say on this.

3) I forgot that devart doesn't allow hotlinking. Just go on my page (http://donbertone.deviantart.com) and you'll see it there.

3) That render for me is not looking good because lacks fresnel

1) I was trying then achieve the render you posted earlier and we all liked. But in that
render using only finalgather no caustics are present, so I was trying also achieve same
look but with caustics also.
The result you can see in the render below. I attached scene Max 8 too.

2) The parti volume photon is when you want calculate GI bouncing from your material. But with FinalGather only no photons are present so no using it is correct.

And of course, thanks for the scene Don Bertone.

Instructions:
Open the scene (Max 8) and render. Look the time spent.

Now open the render dialog, go to the Indirect Illumination tab and just above Final Gather rollout check "All objects Generate & Receive GI and Caustics", then render and look the time!! :eek: The only difference is in the shape of the caustics, but even I like them more now!!

You then can select objects, then properties, then go to the mental ray tab and look the options (generate, receive) checked for each object for GI and Caustics and try understand why that difference in time. I just don't have a good explanation to it. It seems a bug for me because the entire scene is into the sphere and there aren't millions of polys to check each caustic photon. I am very very curious if this thing occurs also in Max9 with the new mental ray core.

Mehran-Moghtadai

08-03-2006, 05:59 PM

3) That render for me is not looking good because lacks fresnel

1) I was trying then achieve the render you posted earlier and we all liked. But in that
render using only finalgather no caustics are present, so I was trying also achieve same
look but with caustics also.
The result you can see in the render below. I attached scene Max 8 too.

2) The parti volume photon is when you want calculate GI bouncing from your material. But with FinalGather only no photons are present so no using it is correct.

And of course, thanks for the scene Don Bertone.

Instructions:
Open the scene (Max 8) and render. Look the time spent.

Now open the render dialog, go to the Indirect Illumination tab and just above Final Gather rollout check "All objects Generate & Receive GI and Caustics", then render and look the time!! :eek: The only difference is in the shape of the caustics, but even I like them more now!!

You then can select objects, then properties, then go to the mental ray tab and look the options (generate, receive) checked for each object for GI and Caustics and try understand why that difference in time. I just don't have a good explanation to it. It seems a bug for me because the entire scene is into the sphere and there aren't millions of polys to check each caustic photon. I am very very curious if this thing occurs also in Max9 with the new mental ray core.

Yea I realised that rendering a Volume shader with no caustics is incorrect. But I am used to using FG with Dielectric/L_glass without any GI. Your version does look good and they will look even better with some tweaking. But for simplistic sake I rather my way even if its incorrect.I've been fiddling around again and I got this cool material.

You will need this bitmap (http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/5780/ddcu3.jpg). you have to insert it in the Mix parameters somewhere.

edit: the bitmap is a bit screwy because I was just testing, but if you have a better bitmap share.

KV99

08-04-2006, 07:55 PM

A test with physical mental ray SSS material. Absorption and scattering settings drive me crazy. Also settings are not really high so photons are apparent on the liquids surface.

http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/and_another_test.jpg (http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/and_another_test.jpg)

kutsche

08-05-2006, 12:31 AM

This is an fantastic thread! Inspired by a lot of ideas here I started to experiment with the Deriver shader to get the mib_illum_ward_deriv shader to work. (later i like to make use of the Deriviates to get Correct U and V Axis for the mib_glossy_reflection, too.

So here´s the Problem:

Now after three weeks of experimenting I'm really perplexed about the following:

I like to make a Anisotrophic Shading with the Help of the Deriver Shader. It behaves perfectly as long the Object is on World Coordinate 0,0,0. Everthing is really perfect!
With the mode 2 (North position) and the XYZ Coordinate (3dsmax) Shader attached for the North Position it goes perfectly! If I turn my Object around the Anisotrophy works fine with the mib_ward_illum_deriv shader! The Derivatives are so perfect that I could use it for the mib_reflection_glossy shader,too! It´s all that I want. Except:

if i move the object out of the 0,0,0 world coordinates the Anisotrophy doesn´t work anymore. Even this problem I have solved partly! If I take the new coordinates of my Object in World (F12) and type it manually in the Offset section of my XYZ Coordinate - The Anisotrophy works perfectly again!!!

Now here´s the question: With what shader could I set this Offset Vector so that it reads the position of the Object in the world automatically? This is incredible!

It would be so easy if there would be a shader that just returns the current Object Position/Vector in the World!!! Every try to get this Coordinate with the XYZ Coordinate itself failed.

Is here anyone that could help me with that mindboggeling frustrating problem? I´m so close to real Anisotrophic Reflections!!!

I need that to render things like pot bottoms and so on. This picture is completely rendered , and as you can see the pot on the left side simply looks ugly. I need circumpolar reflections that an anisotropic shader can give me. But I need it in a way where the glossy reflections behave correctly in relation to the lights.

http://www.ak3d.de/sonstiges/Topfboden.jpg

Dashkevicz

08-05-2006, 04:51 AM

kutsche,

GOT IT!

1: go to Jan Sandstron's site: http://www.pixero.com/downloads_mr.html (hope he doesn't mind the link) and download the "space change" shader. It says for maya, but it still works in max.

2: Install the shader ( you probably know how, right? ) and start max!

3: Use the space change shader in the "north_pos" parameter (you might have to cut from and empty slot in the mat editor and paste)

4: Use these settings in the shader: "input"=0,0,1 "type"=1 "inspace"=1 "outspace"=2 and check "normalizOutput", that's it!

The rest of the setup should be a snap!

I had to open the mel script for maya to get a grasp of what the parameters meant.

Let me know if it works for you.

ps: Thank you ALL in the community for all the support, info, and shaders, and challenges to overcome :wise: !

Bao2

08-05-2006, 12:05 PM

KV99

08-05-2006, 03:56 PM

lol, what makes you think it is red wine? Red wine is red.. And is transparent, not translucent..

Bao2

08-05-2006, 11:13 PM

lol, what makes you think it is red wine? Red wine is red.. And is transparent, not translucent..

Ufff, then again doing some experiment in your magician lessons...

It looks to me like a very well done milk if you uses white instead red.

I don't played very much with physical SSS but I don't think it is valid to do
convincing liquids because almost all liquids have reflection and transparency
and this shader is not able of it. I am waiting the day I see a true application
for this shader because for SSS I think is better the others.

kutsche

08-06-2006, 12:50 AM

@Dashkevicz (http://member.php?u=175767) Thank you very much for you workaround. It does not work in my case. If I do it like you said - it behaves exactly as before. I´ve attached a screenshot of my problem. Everything works fine if I let my Object in Wordspace on 0,0,0 The Anisotrophic Reflecion / Hightlight behaves correctly on rotation. This sphere does have the Deriver Shader with the mib_illum_ward_deriv as passthrough. As said in 0,0,0 it works perfectly. As soon as I move the object, the highlight switches around and doesn´t work anymore!

For this I have found a solution, too. If I stupidly read out the current position in Space (F12) and type this into the Nort_Position ---> It works again fine! the rotation behaves perfectly! I´ve attached a screenshot.

If this system would work - we could do real circumpolar reflections with the mib_glossy_reflection shader and the Derivatives as U and V Direction! This would be awesome! And I´m sooo near to them if I only could do this banally job to get the current object position into the Northposition via a shader!!

http://www.ak3d.de/sonstiges/Screenshots.jpg

rdg

08-06-2006, 10:08 AM

Kutsche,

I cannot test my approach as I haven't even heard of the shaders you are using before I read your post (http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon9.gif).

But reading your last post:
You could try to inject the right position with a script.
Maybe a dummy object with a expression controller reads the object position and updates the shader parameters.

I have found the "mib_illum_ward_deriv" on the net, but what is this "Deriver Shader" you are using?

Georg

KV99

08-06-2006, 10:51 AM

Ufff, then again doing some experiment in your magician lessons...

It looks to me like a very well done milk if you uses white instead red.

I don't played very much with physical SSS but I don't think it is valid to do
convincing liquids because almost all liquids have reflection and transparency
and this shader is not able of it. I am waiting the day I see a true application
for this shader because for SSS I think is better the others.

Actually you 'can' combine physical sss with another material that does have those sss and transparency. It's a bit of a hassle, but some simple example is this one here:

http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/amix.jpg

Anyways, physical SSS is confusing me quite alot though, it's parameters don't give much creative space since a little tweak and you either mess everything up or see no change at all because the values where change would occur are so small and easy to miss.

Dashkevicz

08-06-2006, 07:59 PM

kutsche,

FROM MY FIRST POST:

"1: go to Jan Sandstron's site: http://www.pixero.com/downloads_mr.html (http://www.pixero.com/downloads_mr.html) (hope he doesn't mind the link) and download the "space change" shader. It says for maya, but it still works in max."

From your screen shots I see:
1:) YOU HAVE NO SHADER IN YOUR "NORTH_DIR" SLOT THIS IS IMPORTANT, AS IT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE WORK AROUND!

2:) That your Deriver shader is set to mode 2. I set mine to mode 1 in my scene and it worked. So I tried a render with mode set to 2 as you did and it did not work even with my work around.

Trust me :) , if you use this setup right it does work: the deiver shader will shade ALL objects it's applyed to in OBJECT SPACE! It's awsome!

Bao2

08-06-2006, 09:04 PM

Anyways, physical SSS is confusing me quite alot though, it's parameters don't give much creative space since a little tweak and you either mess everything up or see no change at all

For me the physical SSS is the same as the fast skin shader but only probably more precise, so I wouldn't use it for liquids.

But perhaps I wrong and it is valid for milk. Can you try (or post the scene and I try miself) change the red in the shader of post 3358 for a near white and
see if it looks like milk please, I am interested. The milk attempts in this thread don't convince me (and the Paolo Berto official try also). Both of them were using the Physical SSS and I think the parameters in the shader you used for image of post 3358 can be valid for milk, I am very curious about. My own tries with milk in physical was all badly.

kutsche

08-06-2006, 09:37 PM

Ok. Thank you very much! Tomorrow I will try that! It would be fantastic if it would work!

Thank you!

KV99

08-06-2006, 10:51 PM

For me the physical SSS is the same as the fast skin shader but only probably more precise, so I wouldn't use it for liquids.

But perhaps I wrong and it is valid for milk. Can you try (or post the scene and I try miself) change the red in the shader of post 3358 for a near white and
see if it looks like milk please, I am interested. The milk attempts in this thread don't convince me (and the Paolo Berto official try also). Both of them were using the Physical SSS and I think the parameters in the shader you used for image of post 3358 can be valid for milk, I am very curious about. My own tries with milk in physical was all badly.

You know, to be honest, the attempts to get milk look with physical sss in this thread are quite accurate. At least Jeffs attempt, if I remember right, uses actual milk scattering and absorption coefficents as well, and I, who for example has seen cow milk, can quite easily say that the renders of such are quite realistic, that 'is' how cow milk looks like. Paolo Berto's as well.

I'd do a render of that one also based on physical values and it'd look exactly the same really. Anyways, that's my opinion. I can't test that material anymore though, I usually delete tests that I think I can do better in a remake.

Bao2

08-07-2006, 01:09 AM

that 'is' how cow milk looks like. Paolo Berto's as well.

Then is all probably the kind of cow you uses in each country. :rolleyes: Here in Spain the milk
is not like Paolo Berto or Jeff Patton tries. (I am feeling guilty here :))

Tomorrow I will try myself. Probably I can't achieve that look also. I will post my try.

maxplugins

08-07-2006, 10:03 AM

I have found the "mib_illum_ward_deriv" on the net, but what is this "Deriver Shader" you are using?

Hi Georg, take a look here:
http://www.maxplugins.de/mentalray.php?search=deriver&sort=Author

Dave

JasperCG

08-07-2006, 04:41 PM

I am trying to create a lampshade that has the correct Translucency effect. I am working in 3ds max and have tried using the mental ray material with Translucency shader in both Surface and Shadow parameters. it looks ok, but isn't perfect. Any suggestions?

Also, Is there a better place to go to find a better description as to what the different parameters within a Shader does? max help has terribly truncated obscure explanations. In many of the help descriptions it describes a "illumination Shader" that I can't find.

Thanks for the help.

kutsche

08-07-2006, 06:44 PM

@Dashkevicz: (member.php?u=175767)

OH MY GOD! YOU GOT IT! Thank you THOUSENDS Times! This is truly awsome! The first REAL anisotrophic Reflections that are usable with 3dsmax in this Thread! I´ve now three week of endless Experiments behind me! Finally you gave me the last needed hint! This Spacechanger does exactly what I needed! Thank you so much!

Dashkevicz

08-07-2006, 07:36 PM

Yeah, no trouble, I like to solve problems anyhow.

Using the space changer is a very robust solution: in my tests I even animated a few differnt objects rotating and moving all in differnt directions and far from the origin and the anistropy was correct on all of the objects all the time!

I haven't thought of any other uses for the space change shader yet, but I'm sure something will come up.

The real heroes here are the geniuses the WRITE and then SHARE thier shaders with all of us! THANK YOU ALL!!

Using differnt shaders from different authors in a creative way can be such a powerful tool THAT is the real power of a programable renderer!

MENTAL RAY ROCKS!! :buttrock:

Pixero

08-07-2006, 10:11 PM

kutsche,
1: go to Jan Sandstron's site: http://www.pixero.com/downloads_mr.html (hope he doesn't mind the link) and download the "space change" shader. It says for maya, but it still works in max.

I dont mind. Glad you found a use for it. :D

kutsche

08-08-2006, 08:11 AM

Hi Pixero,

yes thats fantastic! It does exactly what I needed! I´ve search around for any possible workarounds with the Max basics but nothing worked. It seems that it can transport the object coordinates directly into the shader. Thats great. Thanks for sharing. Tjis such a basically function that it´s nearly a shame that it isn´t included by the base shaders. It simply frees such a powerfull function of mental ray!

Keep on doing this great work!

Best, André

Bao2

08-11-2006, 01:51 AM

In the Maxwell render material download site (http://mxmgallery.maxwellrender.com/) you can download a scene for using
with that renderer. The original scene was created by Thomas Anagnostou.
Unfortunately is not possible convert from .mxs file to .max file so I was creating a max
scene myself trying replicate the most close to the original I was viewing in the Maxwell
app. It was no easy, I needed very much renders to balance the lighting and materials.
I know the light to the left is stronger than maxwell one but I want that way to check
highlights in materials.

In the autodesk site you can download videos with the new features of Max9. In the
mental ray one you can see a guy showing the new carpaint material. I copied all
the settings of his blue carpaint and you can see below the MaterialLaboratory being
used. Note: I edited post 3278 to advertise a incompatibility of this carpaint shader
and the Max9 one. Check it out also if you are using it.

Note: Thomas Anangnostou, the author of the original I was recreating, ask for
a change of the scene so wait a few days until I got mine own scene. The file
was removed in the FTP server and I will not make it available so don't ask
for it in private messages. I will post my own soon.
Download MaterialLaboratory v1.1 Max8 scene
and read the readme file included.

The settings for the blue carpaint are (the colors are RGB values):
0.0 0.0 0.0 | 0.0 0.035 0.753 | 0.004 0.0 0.02 | 1 | 0.373 0.4 0.851 |
|8|1|1.5| 1 1 1 |1|0|45|0.3|0|0.8|0.02| 1 1 1 |0.2|60|1 1 1|0.3|25|checked|
|1 1 1|7|1|0.2|0|0|0|no checked|0.3 0.3 0.3|0|1|1|0|no checked
(not included the material in the scene so It not gives an error if the user don't
have the carpaint shader installed)

http://212.51.33.74/cb/cgtalk/MatLab.jpgImage removed until I have my own scene.

Bao2

08-11-2006, 02:25 AM

To Dashkevicz and Kutsche:

yes thats fantastic! ...
It does exactly what I needed! ...
I´ve search around for any possible workarounds ...
Thats great....
Tjis such a basically function that it´s nearly a shame that it isn´t included...
It simply frees such a powerfull function of mental ray!...

Keep on doing this great work!

Mmmm...:rolleyes:
Could you post a indication of how we build that wonder of the wonders. Please!.
Yes, you just have intrigated me with so many exclamations!.:)

Can you explain what material are using and where you are placing each shader? (mentalray material and mib_illum_ward_deriv (unhidden), Deriver (downloaded), mib_glossy_reflection (from my instructions to install the carpaint in post 3278, there
is also the mib_glossy_refraction I don't included but I think Dave did (maxplugins guy)),
then the space change (downloaded from pixero)... more? how place you each one?

Or at last post a render (even using the MatLaboratory:)) so we can see what we are missing.:sad:

JeffPatton

08-11-2006, 02:27 AM

Bao2

08-11-2006, 02:40 AM

It's a great idea the Maxwell folks have about a universal scene for materials. Thomas put a LOT of thought & time into that test scene.

I know several people that are working on creating a similar scene for the various other renderers (myself included). As such, I think it would be a good idea to come up with our own test object for mental ray instead of using the Maxwell object (even though you recreated it yourself).

Unless of course the Maxwell folks don't mind. :shrug:

Yes, I was thinking it myself before posting.
The textures are not mine, the scene is entirely mine, but the concept is of Thomas.

So the link is broken. I will post again something similar but entirely mine. Even the
concept. I want a object with planes, with a neutral object inside showing also
out (like the ball), some curves to show SSS, some bubles inside and some material
inside.
Yes I think I can enhance the Thomas scene. :wip:

(Link broken above until the new scene is created. Please sit down...)

JeffPatton

08-11-2006, 02:49 AM

You know, you're on the right track though...instead of everyone scrambling to come up with their own "widgets" for testing...it would make a lot of sense to just use the same one. No sense in re-inventing the wheel here...that Maxwell scene is a really great test bed and it would be wonderful for all the renderers to use it.

I'm going to head over to the Maxwell forum and ask...as well as the Vray forum and see what they say as well.

Bao2

08-11-2006, 03:12 AM

You know, you're on the right track though...instead of everyone scrambling to come up with their own "widgets" for testing...it would make a lot of sense to just use the same one. No sense in re-inventing the wheel here...

And also the intention here was be able to compare exactly a material created in
mental ray with other created in maxwell. If not one just can point the scenes are
different and so. We need a universal scene to compare precisely materials.

If I was Thomas, my impression would be positive with VRay guys, mental ray guys,
Pixar guys... :) adopting my scene as a standard.

I took care indicate the author (Thomas), the site and so, and really I think anymore
is needed because the scene is completely mine. Only the textures for the sides
of the room (front, left, right, back, top, bottom) are used withou modification. The other
textures have modifications.

Is not right to recreate a model from another guy?. Is not licit to recreate a model from
a real object?.

The only thing then are the textures used. Well, probably the entire 100% images posted in CGTalk have one or more textures downloaded free from internet. The ones included
in the maxwell file are free download?.

So waiting the decission of the jury I am...

JeffPatton

08-11-2006, 03:36 AM

Is not right to recreate a model from another guy?. Is not licit to recreate a model from a real object?.Well, it's certainly not "wrong" for us to recreate a model as long as we reference the original modeller (just as you did). But I'd say just to be polite we should ask first.

Now this is just me talking...I don't want to impose my thoughts on anyone (and hope you didn't take it that way). '

EDIT: BTW, You did an outstanding job on recreating the Maxwell scene.

EquiNOX

08-11-2006, 06:12 AM

Bao2, First.... Thanks for recreate the Carpaint phen shader. It looks much better than the first time. Secondly... This may be off issue on this tread but I was hoping you could help...After I did a test render with the maxwell scene... And carpaint phen shader.... I just loved the light scene and wish to know the settings. Unfortunately they were locked in Max. Would you by any chance sharing setup or know any setup on light scene. Speaking of object attached with light source or something?

EDIT: Does anyone have any idea how to make one like these in MR?

Bao2

08-11-2006, 12:45 PM

It looks much better than the first time.

I don't understand. The carpaint shader posted (post 3278 I think) continues the same, I
was adding rollouts and now my carpaint matches exactly the look of the guy of the video (video in autodesk with the new mental ray in Max9). Then I discovered the new .mi file with the rollouts don't loads old scenes (it defaults the material to red) so I now know we all will have this problem when in Max9. So I don't release the new .mi file but I am using
it myself instead of the first .mi file with all the parameters messed.

For the render above I was matching the settings of the guy of the video as said above. The carpaint material has many controls and I am waiting still someone specialized in cars
try them all and show what the flakes, dirty, specular, reflections and so parameters can
do!. I just have no time to make tests myself just now.

I was observing the guy used a flakes scale very much small (0.03) than the default (0.12). But in the render above I was using 0.02. Also the Density of the flakes
and of course the colors and some checkbox, all the rest is the same.

Secondly... This may be off issue on this tread but I was hoping you could help...After I did a test render with the maxwell scene... And carpaint phen shader.... I just loved the light scene and wish to know the settings. Unfortunately they were locked in Max.

I don't know if I understand correctly. For "maxwell scene" you mean MaterialLaboratory scene?. Well it is freezed but not locked. And I hope Autodesk don't
incorpores anything locking feature in Max never. You must open the layer editor and unfreezethe layers you want. But perhaps I am not understanding you well?

I am planning to do a new MaterialLaboratory scene with my own textures and also
fix the lighting creating a scene matching more precisely the lighting in Maxwell and saving a scene state and then creating my own lighting and save another scene state probably. In the maxwell scene the left light is 20 watts but in mine it is near 80 watts.

I want say here I just don't understand some nosenses in the world like the light units used in lights in Max. If I say I use a 20w bulb to light the scene almost everyone knows
the amount of light the render will have. Why then the lights in max (photometric) don't
have the watts option???? I really don't know why that thing is not present. It seems only
spanish people can do the things common sense!! In Maxwell the default is watts of course, like in the real world. Try buy a bulb and say: Hey man I need a bulb of 453,26 lumens. I think is time to make renders physical and also put common sense in them.

EDIT: Does anyone have any idea how to make one like these in MR?

I am waiting for a answer from Dashkevicz or Kutsche so join the queue.:)

loran

08-11-2006, 05:13 PM

Carpaint material looks cool. Is it faster than DGS for blured reflection? It has its self sampling for that so you don 't need to enhance image sampling at rendering...
Anyone has test this??
thx!

EquiNOX

08-11-2006, 06:34 PM

Bao2.... My apologies on leading you confusions or not be able to understand me on my previous post #3385. All thing I said at previous post was me being mentally fatigued, not be able not focus on things I said. I posted that really late last night. So, Nevermind about I said about locked objects, maxwell scene or and etc... It was just all me:shrug: Oh yeah, I must forgot all about unfreeze thing.

About carpaint shader, I was saying... your set up (with so many number) was way better than my set up.... I have been struggling with that for a while and never be able to get carpaint shader look right. I gave up and thought it has something to do with plugins flaw. Just until you shared set up I finally got the point, I finally got this to look right and I thank you for that. I think am gonna give flake and dirt a try, I ll just test, play around with numbers.

About photometric light thing.. I must agree with you...Sometimes I wish max would include watts instead lumen or something better for everyone to understand. But for some reason I think Max use lumens for precision lighting set up. For example, I have seen, there are two different size of bulbs that have same watts (20 watts) but their lumens are different. i.e. compare between the home standard halogen bulbs and the french fries bin bulbs. I am sure there some type conversion program that can tell how much watts are equal to lumens?

About swirl metallic thing, (one I posted) hoping someone could succed that, I was thinking that swirl thing has something to do with mapping and I could probably succed that with standard mat, but with MR mat? I have no idea.

Bao2

08-11-2006, 10:40 PM

In Post 3378 above I posted again the new zip file and the new jpg file. All the objects
and textures now are created from scratch.
In future I want incorporate to the file another object in other layer so we can turn layers
on and off and choose one object or another for the test.
If anyone wants design its own object post here and we will decide. I want an object
able to show flat surfaces, SSS, reflection (zones like sphere for fresnel), and show objects
in its interior in diverse depths. Also perhaps a zone like cloth and another for liquids.
It could seem a Dali picture.:thumbsup:

At the moment the objects are like you see in the picture with the carpaint blue. I forgot
to Unwrap UVW properly so tomorrow or so I will update to version 1.1 with correct UVs.

Bao2

08-11-2006, 10:59 PM

But for some reason I think Max use lumens for precision lighting set up. For example, I have seen, there are two different size of bulbs that have same watts (20 watts) but their lumens are different.

In Maxwell they use Watts as default. To the right it is the Efficiency parameter (default in 12,5). That way you know your bulb receive 20watts and transform that in light only with 12,5% efficiency. The bulbs showing more light with the same voltage have better
efficiency.
I prefer watts to lumens, much more intuitive for me.

i.e. compare between the home standard halogen bulbs and the french fries bin bulbs. I am sure there some type conversion program that can tell how much watts are equal to lumens?

I was using the maxwell material emitter to try figure out how much lumens to put in
the scene. Fortunately it has presets, you choose watts and it shows lumens. Then you
go to Max, open the Light selection tool and there you only see candelas... oh man!... so
you need go to the command panel and enter there your lumens. But even then the
light selection tool follow showing candelas.
Now, go to the market and ask for a bulb of 300 candelas also. I think is nosense.

About swirl metallic thing, (one I posted) hoping someone could succed that, I was thinking that swirl thing has something to do with mapping and I could probably succed that with standard mat, but with MR mat? I have no idea.

That material is one in my list of things TO DO. But I have very much ones before that. If the two guys above don't answer I would try it myself when I have time (some days).
The map to be used is the gradient radial and high tiling. Then the shader must interpretate each level of gray with a UV direction. I would use some layers like a chessboard and use another radial to mix in the borders because the material you showed looks fake because it need this mix. I think it can be possible but don't tried it myself. I will post here if no response of anyone. Just now I am going again to milk. Doing milk in mentalray and maxwell I decided create the scene MaterialLaboratory for be able to precisely compare the two renderers.
Check the mapped anisotropy is one thing I want do again. I did already in post 2530 on page 169, but this time mapping it and trying the shaders deriver and so.

Bao2

08-11-2006, 11:02 PM

Carpaint material looks cool. Is it faster than DGS for blured reflection? It has its self sampling for that so you don 't need to enhance image sampling at rendering...
Anyone has test this??
thx!

Can you post a scene with a sphere or so and the DGS you want? Then I can try it
in carpaint. But my recommendation would be go to post 3278 (I think it is...) and
download the .mi and .dll and put them like the readme file says and start max and
try yourself. Then close max and delete these two files and you get again your
max incorrupted and bright like the first day.:)

ThomasAn.

08-12-2006, 03:32 AM

... and really I think anymore
is needed because the scene is completely mine......

Please avoid making assumptions without the author's permission.
You can take a book and xerox some pages ... the copy paper is yours but not the work itself. You can hand-copy it, in which case the ink and the hand writing is yours, but still not the work.

Please avoid making literal copies (forgeries) of this scene and object. The design is meant to be associated with Maxwell materials only. The work behind this scene was intented as a donation to the Maxwell community ... if the intention was for the whole world, then it would have been posted in a neutral forum like (here) along with geometry files (as was the case in other occasions for different scenes).

Sorry, for the inconvenience
Feel free to design a unique (different) scene for your platform.

Bao2

08-12-2006, 09:23 AM

Please avoid making literal copies (forgeries) of this scene and object. The design is meant to be associated with Maxwell materials only.

It is very different as you can see if you open the scene. Every texture is different, every
model is slight different. I was doing the triangular window from midpoint to midpoint in the sphere and the edges have a more sharp shape in my version. Even the texts shown are different. The room has dimensions different, the objects are placed different. I see a new whole scene. You only need open the file and compare yourself.

The work behind this scene was intented as a donation to the Maxwell community ... if the intention was for the whole world, then it would have been posted in a neutral forum like (here) along with geometry files (as was the case in other occasions for different scenes).

I don't ask you post your files. If I want your scene I would ask you in maxwell forum. But you say there you don't have the scene so I was needing do my version of it. Is like do my version of a picture of Salvador Dali, do you think it is illegal?. I was indicating the author of the original in the readme file as I would do doing my version of a picture of Dali (well If I would have the skills to do 2D of course). Also I am not selling the scene, it is my effort to be able to compare render results between different renders.

Sorry, for the inconvenience
Feel free to design a unique (different) scene for your platform.

It is different. You know it is a very different scene than yours when you see a render made with it. I was spending a LOT of time with this scene, don't think it was show a maxwell render to my 3D app and it generates the scene for me.

arel

08-12-2006, 03:55 PM

hey guys!

sorry to barge in like this, i just have a quick question.. i searched through these forums and google but still couldn't find the answer. i need to make paper with mental ray.. now i tried using the SSS but, maybe because i don't completely understand it yet (as i'm a newbie in MR), i couldn't get the results i was aiming for, namely to make good looking paper material.

i would really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction, is it actually possible to make paper with SSS and if not, what should i use instead?

i came across a post in this particular thread in which Jeff suggested using Architectural Material for this purpose. i tried it and it is just right for this with the "paper" preset, this is exactly what i need. i just wanna know if it's possible to get the similar result with MR (i'm guessing yes :curious: ) and how.. :hmm:

Bao2

08-12-2006, 04:34 PM

Well, the problematic scene Material Laboratory goes v1.1. Now the test material
has right UV mapping. Updated the original post with the new link.

Note: I let the stack in each object so you can see the steps creating each one, but
probably rendertime will be better if you collapse the stack for each object.

arel:
In a mental ray material set a "material to shader" and set inside that your Architectural
material. Or am I missing something? Perhaps you want build using other shaders not
the Max ones?

Dashkevicz

08-12-2006, 05:09 PM

EquiNOX and friends,

Here's the file, cool?

This uses several custom shaders writen by different authors. More details to come later, I've gotta go.

EDIT: I figured the best way to learn this is to mess with the file..... so here it is!

Coliba

08-12-2006, 06:24 PM

Bao2, everybody that will look at your scene will find it impossible to distinguish between your version and the original scene, ment for testing Maxwell materials. If you want to go ahead and implement the same idea (a common scene for testing materials for a certain renderer), then make your own scene, don't just copy another one.

It also puts you in a bad light blatantly copying someone elses design and on top of that arguing that your scene is completely different. Give it a rest and come up with your own design!

Continuumx

08-12-2006, 07:25 PM

Outright copyright stealing in CGSociety Forum??!?!?!?

JeffPatton

08-12-2006, 07:38 PM

If you guys wish to continue the discussion about copyrighted materials & ethics, please do so privately, or outside of this thread.

Taoizm

08-12-2006, 07:56 PM

Hey guys, let's keep the Shaders thread about shaders. If you want to argue about copywrites etc... take it to another thread or offline.

arel

08-12-2006, 08:25 PM

Bao2, thanks for your reply..

i will try this out, with the Material to Shader, i was just wondering if there was a more versatile way to achieve the paper effect with mental ray, not using max materials at all..

well, my first guess was SSS but i couldn't get what i wanted with it, that's why i'm asking :rolleyes:

Bao2

08-13-2006, 12:37 AM

If you guys wish to continue the discussion about copyrighted materials & ethics, please do so privately, or outside of this thread.

This one (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3779850#post3779850) for anyone wanting express himself.

Coliba, Continuumx, I answered you in that thread.

EquiNOX

08-13-2006, 05:30 AM

Dashkevicz

08-13-2006, 06:05 AM

The documentation of custom shaders is usually left to the author of the shader its self. This can be good or bad.... If you go to http://www.maxplugins.de/mentalray.php you find a library of *almost every shader that is functional in max, some with custom includes* it is a beautiful site! But anyhow, if you download the zip files, usually they contain some kind of documentation..... some even contain the source code! These guys are the real heroes (as I have said before). In the case of Deriver, the documetation is included in the "doc" folder of the unzipped package that you get from Daniel Rind's website: http://animus.brinkster.net/index.html .

If you guys have any questions about the setup or file, let me know!

Bao2

08-13-2006, 12:07 PM

If you guys have any questions about the setup or file, let me know!

Wowwww, it works very well. When you rotate the camera the aniso works like it must be.
I was surprised you don't used a gray spiral map but a red and green one, I must read the
documentation of that shader to understand.

Really for me this is one of the best posts ever in this thread. Thanks Dashkevicz for
sharing how build the network.

I am going test now in the Laboratory scene to find the right settings of tiling and trying
understand where is coming from that bluish color it shows in the scene.

EquiNOX

08-13-2006, 06:11 PM

If you guys have any questions about the setup or file, let me know!
About that sprial map, did you develop that in photoshop or somekind of paint program?

Pixero

08-13-2006, 06:28 PM

Dashkevicz, Thanks for sharing... I have always heard about Deriver shader but I never bother to try. Now I find that's really interesting and would like to learn about Deriver. Where can I find such information on it? any links? How about J5 contrast, J5 Space change, and Reflection Utility? I checked Pixero.com and couldn't find anything that explain what shader actually does or how to set them at proper value. Any suggestions? Once again Thanks for that shader you shared you made my day :thumbsup:

First its JS not J5.

The JS_Contrast is a brightness contrast shader. How hard is that. ;-)
It works a lot like brightness contrast in Photoshop. The PSBL (Photoshop brightness level) activates a brightness level min and max of 100 / 256. Deactivate, and it goes all the way.

The JS_SpaceChange node convert points, vectors or normals to/from either world, object or camera space.

In Max as far as I understand there is no way a MentalRay shader can show a integer
parameter as a drop down list with real names. That makes some shaders hard to understand and work with. If anyone knows a way to fix this in Max let me know.

For now you can look in the scripts directory of my MR shaders. There is a .mel script to make the UI for Maya. if you open that file in a text editor you can read what the different integer values stand for.
Like in the Space change node:

Mode

1 "Vector"
2 "Point"
3 "Normal"

In Space

1 "Object"
2 "World"
3 "Camera"

Out Space

1 "Object"
2 "World"
3 "Camera"

Hope this helps!

KV99

08-13-2006, 06:58 PM

Well, a simple Cornell Box test. Tried to get the look that was represenated on the comparison page on official Cornell Box website, but failed to convert the data or materials or lighting correctly. Anyways, it's quite close still. One glitch exists in the edges of ceiling, that's because the area light is not exactly positioned the way it should be, something I'll fix in the future tests.

http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/cornell_box.jpg

Anyone knows, or could recommend, the correct shaders to use in the environment? I assume DGS, which is physically correct?

EquiNOX

08-13-2006, 07:56 PM

Pixero,
First its JS not J5.
Ooops!:banghead: Sorry about that.

The JS_Contrast is a brightness contrast shader. How hard is that. ;-)It works a lot like brightness contrast in Photoshop. The PSBL (Photoshop brightness level) activates a brightness level min and max of 100 / 256. Deactivate, and it goes all the way.

I kinda knew it has something to do with contrast and brightness similar to Photoshop. But I am not even sure how parameter should set up in Mat Edit. But, Now I get it thanks for clarification.

The JS_SpaceChange node convert points, vectors or normals to/from either world, object or camera space.
So basically it would give "Glare or Glitter" looks if camera is spotted anywhere at max's world coordinate?

AdrianWilliams

08-13-2006, 08:03 PM

is the MR Upload site down?

Dashkevicz

08-13-2006, 08:23 PM

Equinox: I tested settings with a gradient ramp; once I got the concept strait I made the gradient in photoshop: note: There is no aliasing on purpose, the result is cleaner that way. As far as I can tell (I may be way off) by mapping the "input" perameter of the space changer shader with a red and green map you "warp" the x and y axes respectivley.

Pixaro: That's funny because I had to open the script to see what the integers stood for. Even though I don't use Maya, I know mel scripts can be used to build interfaces so I checked it out and hit pay dirt! Maybe the SDK could help build a better interface for the shaders but I've heard the material editor is a BITCH, it's a closed and inflexible system. It also seems like to much work....

I just threw in the js_contrast shader for extra adjustment :)

Bao2

08-13-2006, 08:48 PM

In Max as far as I understand there is no way a MentalRay shader can show a integer
parameter as a drop down list with real names. That makes some shaders hard to understand and work with. If anyone knows a way to fix this in Max let me know.

This is the way I do myself:
Also I left the parameter 4 but probably better don't put it. Jan?

#****************************************************************************/
# Version 1.0
# Author: Jan Sandstrom (Pixero)
# Created: 14 june 2005
# Purpose: .mi declarations for JS_SpaceChange MR shader
# History:
# 14 june 05 jan sandstrom: created
#****************************************************************************/

declare shader

vector "JS_SpaceChange"
(
vector "Input",
integer "type", #: default 1 min 1 max 3
integer "inSpace", #: default 1 min 1 max 4
integer "outSpace", #: default 1 min 1 max 4
boolean "normalizeOutput"
)

gui "gui_JS_SpaceChange" {
control "Global" "Global" ("uiName" "JS_SpaceChange",
"category" "Texture Space Mapping"
)

control "Input" "vector" ("uiName" "Input",
"value" 0.0 0.0 1.0
)
control "type" "integer" ("uiName" "Mode (1:Vector 2:Point 3:Normal)",
"value" 1, "range" 1 3, "nonConnectable"
)
control "inSpace" "integer" ("uiName" "IN Space (1:Obj 2:Wrld 3:Cam 4:Light)",
"value" 1, "range" 1 4, "nonConnectable"
)
control "outSpace" "integer" ("uiName" "OUT Space (1:Obj 2:Wrld 3:Cam 4:Light)",
"value" 1, "range" 1 4, "nonConnectable"
)
control "normalizeOutput" "boolean" ("uiName" "Normalize Output",
"value" 1, "nonConnectable"
)
}

version 1
apply texture

end declare

Bao2

08-13-2006, 08:53 PM

Well, a simple Cornell Box test. Tried to get the look that was represenated on the comparison page on official Cornell Box website

Don't understand for what purposes you will be using. If your intentions are
make materials using it, then you soon get crazy. Then after you can try with
a disco HDR also...:)

Cornell is for testing color radiance, caustics and things like that. For real materials
you need (well, at last I need) a environment with controlled amount of light (known
voltage in watts) and white light. You don't use halogen light to tune your materials...

Bao2

08-13-2006, 09:02 PM

I've heard the material editor is a BITCH, it's a closed and inflexible system. It also seems like to much work....

My impression is Autodesk must not change the Material Editor. Simply must Add another
thing for materials and let users use what interface they like more to build materials. There
are some graphical interfaces free available (search the forum) but I myself wait for the
Autodesk solution. I hope it will be a mix between graphical and material editor.

The shame is it is impossible to achieve real anisotropic reflection using Autodesk shaders. It is a shame need a external shader to achieve that. Really I hope the new Architectural
materials in Mental ray Max9 fix this situation. I am testing the Dashkevicz solution and
I am wooooowwww, wooooow,... all the time. I am testing every thing you can test so
soon post my material.
Thanks again Dashkevicz, impressive. And Jan of course for their SpaceChange. Jan, do you have Max installed or only Maya?

Pixero

08-13-2006, 09:21 PM

So basically it would give "Glare or Glitter" looks if camera is spotted anywhere at max's world coordinate?
Not sure I understand you...?
The Space Change shader just converts from one space to another. If you for example have a 3d noise texture in world space applied to an object and animate the object, it would appear to swim through the texture. If its in object space it will follow the object when animated.

Also I left the parameter 4 but probably better don't put it. Jan?

Yeah. Leave the fourth one out since its not implemented. It's a left over from an earlier test that wasn't finnished.

Jan, do you have Max installed or only Maya?
I'm currently evaluating Max/Viz for a possible switch from Maya for my new job as arch viz.
I totally love Maya's openness for scripting almost anything and I really wished Max finally would get a node based material editor for version 9. :cry:
Well well... That was a bit off topic.

KV99

08-13-2006, 11:47 PM

Don't understand for what purposes you will be using. If your intentions are
make materials using it, then you soon get crazy. Then after you can try with
a disco HDR also...:)

Cornell is for testing color radiance, caustics and things like that. For real materials
you need (well, at last I need) a environment with controlled amount of light (known
voltage in watts) and white light. You don't use halogen light to tune your materials...

A bit tough to read what you meant.. The purpose is to render Cornell box as it is on those photos on the website (with a minor difference, photos have certain black box someplace on the ceiling which has no coordinates listed in data section, so I left that one out. Link: http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/box/measured.jpg). Now, that does need proper materials just like everything else. Because a simple shader with just red color is CG, not a real life red colored wall material (though it may get close). Materials that act accordingly in the lit environment and respond to reflective caustics and global illumination properly. I used DGS and made a few other tests and DGS seems to be the physically correct material to use. Point of me asking here is that is DGS shader the way to go in such setup?

What especially concerns me is the seemingly front-lit box there which has alot more light on it than the render I tested. I'm playing with exposure now to see if that's the reason why, but it also might be something related to materials, perhaps certain very dim glossy reflection on all materials that cause reflective caustics to light more and the like.

moidphotos

08-14-2006, 12:08 AM

hello everyone

I've been following the discusion about anisotropic reflections (something I've wanted in max for years so that I could achieve more realistic stretched reflections in water) and although I can't add anything to the creation of a Deriver shader that works with Max8 (but I will be very glad if someone would write a simple explanation of how to get one working), I was looking at the tests people were making of radial pattern brushed steel, and I came up with my own way of achieving the effect in MR, but without any extra shaders.

My technique will only work for radial pattern brushed steel, it won't create true streched reflections like a deriver shader should, but it works well and I thought I'd share it with you guys and see what you think.

To make the material you need a multilayer material. Make diffuse black, and set the Specular level layer controls to:
Level 120
Glossiness 20
Anisotropy 50
Orientation 90

on the second Specular layer use the same settings but use Orientation 180.

Scroll down to Reflection and add a falloff map, change to Fresnel, set IOR to 10 and add a Metal Lume shader to the white (bottom) map slot. Inside that set Surface Material to Black, reflectivity to 1.0, reflect colour to white, activate blur reflection and Spread to 10 and samples to 5

Now return to the top of the material and go to the bump slot, set it to 100% intensity

Add a Normal Bump map, and in the normal slot add a normal map that is made from a selection of 3D cones rendered from above, or do what I did and draw a radial gradient from black to white in Photoshop and use the Nvidia normal map plugin to convert the image into a normal map. Set that to 0.2

In the Additional bump slot add a greyscale image of lots of radial scratches.

Apply the material and render (you'll need a background environment image or lots of geometry to surround the scene, or the metal will appear too dark)

I have hopefully attached the relevant bitmaps to this post.

The idea behind this is the radial pattern of the metal distorts reflections rather like a cone does, (when viewed from above) so a normal map of a cone, if applied at low strength will warp the reflection correctly, and when mixed with a fine grain bump map the reflection is distorted more, and then is blended into a rougher, more brushed look by using Metal Lume at a low quality setting. I'd value anyone's input on how to improve this (still not sure how to get an environment map to render into the surface without placing it in the Environment of the scene) so let me know what you think:)

Bao2

08-14-2006, 12:30 AM

1) The purpose is to render Cornell box as it is on those photos on the website

2) I used DGS and made a few other tests and DGS seems to be the physically correct material to use. Point of me asking here is that is DGS shader the way to go in such setup?

3) What especially concerns me is the seemingly front-lit box there which has alot more light on it than the render I tested. I'm playing with exposure now to see if that's the reason why,

1) I was saying that test is not valid for create materials. Only is valid to see GI and caustics in my opinion. For example looking Paolo Berto testing a glass of milk into a Cornell box seems nosense for me. But anyone can try things and have fun of course... Perhaps he was testing GI instead of milk material...

2) DGS materials are great with photometric lights. It seems real renders. But DGS in some cases are terribly slow like frozen glass but in other cases are extremely fast, better than any other material. I was wonder in some cases. Test them without any doubt. Also Jeff in this thread (post 2884 page 193) posted the DGS version of the Architectural materials
so don't miss it!

3) Perhaps you are missing the wall we can't see and the scene has it (with hormals reversed of course so you can see trough)?

Bao2

08-14-2006, 12:46 AM

I will be very glad if someone would write a simple explanation of how to get one working

Go to post 3396, download the scene file.
Place the mi files and dll files in the same folders of your max directory as you
are seeing the tree folders in the Dashkevicz file
Open the max scene, render.

Was it simple enough? :)

With noise you get true anisotropic but great render times. The thing is have a shader
to do correctly avoiding do yourself the bump thing with noise.
Deriver does it great.

moidphotos

08-14-2006, 11:41 PM

Thanks Bao, that was great:thumbsup:

OK a new question - I've been playing with the various settings for a couple of hours, and although I can stretch the reflection (I'm just using a flat plane with a cylinder on it and have deactivated the anidirection.jpg), my reflection always leans to the right, when I would like it to stretch straight downwards. If you have any ideas how to correct that I would be really grateful as I've obviously not got one setting right somewhere in that rather complex shader. Please see the attached image - I'm happy with the look of the reflection, just the fact that it falls to the right is driving me nuts:banghead:

rodrigogua

08-15-2006, 12:24 AM

it looks slanted becasuse it is being blurred a lot and the left side is being overthrown by the brighter object. if you watch closely, the reflection f the cylinder is only visible in its shadow

Dashkevicz

08-15-2006, 01:33 AM

moidphotos,

Yes the reflections do get a bit "wonkie", but this is normal. Rodrigogua is right, your image looks extra weird because of the blown highlight, I DID hype them a bit with an output shader (by the way, I hope you notice this is a max native shader that works perfectly within a mental ray shader! cool). The reflections get weird because these anistropic reclections are caused by "infiantly fine groves" that are not large enough to be resolved, and these groves must follow some direction (in this case the local x axis of the plane, causing the local y axis to stretch). Anistropic reflections can be observed on other surfaces with round bumps viewed from a glancing angle (think wet pavement, or sunset on the ocean) when viewed on edge these "circles" become "ellipsess", but they are ellipsess from all around, these "groves" are not so you can get some strangely bent reflections. Try puting your camera pointing up the y axis and the reflection will strech strait down. If you line the camera up with the x axis the reflection stretches horizontally. In between and you get an odd looking reflection. You were probably expecting the "sunset on ocean" effect.

Hope this helps. :)

AdrianWilliams

08-15-2006, 05:33 AM

Anyone? Uploader? please?

Bao2

08-15-2006, 05:27 PM

Anyone? Uploader? please?

Are you speaking of the uploader a guy made available in the first stages of this gigantic
thread? Well it is down. Just now the warehouse is the Jeff Patton web. You can post
your stuff using the attachments and you can use free sites like Filefront for files and
imageshack for images and so.

moidphotos

08-16-2006, 12:50 AM

it looks slanted becasuse it is being blurred a lot and the left side is being overthrown by the brighter object. if you watch closely, the reflection f the cylinder is only visible in its shadow

Thanks for the idea Rodigogua, but I've tried turning the light off and also turned off the output map, the effect is still leaning to the right:sad:

Yes the reflections do get a bit "wonkie", but this is normal. Rodrigogua is right, your image looks extra weird because of the blown highlight, I DID hype them a bit with an output shader (by the way, I hope you notice this is a max native shader that works perfectly within a mental ray shader! cool). The reflections get weird because these anistropic reclections are caused by "infiantly fine groves" that are not large enough to be resolved, and these groves must follow some direction (in this case the local x axis of the plane, causing the local y axis to stretch). Anistropic reflections can be observed on other surfaces with round bumps viewed from a glancing angle (think wet pavement, or sunset on the ocean) when viewed on edge these "circles" become "ellipsess", but they are ellipsess from all around, these "groves" are not so you can get some strangely bent reflections. Try puting your camera pointing up the y axis and the reflection will strech strait down. If you line the camera up with the x axis the reflection stretches horizontally. In between and you get an odd looking reflection. You were probably expecting the "sunset on ocean" effect.

Thanks Dashkevicz for the extra info. That shader's still seems very hard to control - moving the cmaera does indeed control the reflection 'length' as in reality, but moving it around the scene doesn't make that much of an improvement to the lean to the right issue. As you mentioned, what I'm after is a sunset on a beach style reflection - I have a very hi res matte painting of some Norwegian Fjords that has been crying out for the correct anisotropic reflections to make the mountains really extend down the render and I'd love to use your shader to do this to the water in front of the mountains. If you have a spare few minutes, please could you post the settings for something like a sun over water, and I could figure the rest out myself? Or a Max file would be lovely:) Thanks for the feedback though.

rodrigogua

08-16-2006, 03:06 AM

try and change the camera angle so you get to see more of the shadow

you could also try and reduce the glossiness (blurriness) on the ground plane so that the reflction gets less dispersed

Dashkevicz

08-16-2006, 07:51 PM

moidphotos (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=82836),

Try replacing the radial map I made in photoshop with a falloff map: I'll send an image. Also, to get the stretched reflections you might want to try making a taller version of your mountains - not visable to the camera, and not shadow casting. This would allow you to stretch the reflection easily in addition to the anistropic method. The anistropic method blurs the reflection so the trailing end of it is rather transparent - to transparent in my opinion by the time you get the stretch you want.

KV99

08-16-2006, 10:29 PM

As for my question before about Cornell Box materials and the like, it seems DGS and Linear Workflow did the trick. Not perfectly satisfied, but enough to give it a rest. I do love DGS. Now if only there would be geolight shader that does not glitch and require re-rendering..

http://kristovaher.pri.ee/pub/cornell_box_3s.jpg

(bloomish effect added with Blur Effect settings)

Pachy

08-25-2006, 12:26 PM

How can I use a .hdr as lightsource in mental ray?

petere

08-25-2006, 12:30 PM

How can I use a .hdr as lightsource in mental ray?

Add a SkyLight, put the HDR in the map slot or as an enviroment map. And then render with MR + Final Gather. Voila, HDR-lightsource.

-P

Pachy

08-25-2006, 12:53 PM

Ah, thanks a lot

sonicer

08-28-2006, 08:11 PM

Rendered in mentalray .
3dsmax 8
1) Light box
2) Light paper lamp

- mentalray lume shader - translucency ...test

http://www.petrfiala.eu/translucency1.jpg
http://www.petrfiala.eu/translucency2.jpg

(I am looking forward to 3dsmax 9 ..mentalray 3.5 :bounce: )

Bye

Bao2

08-30-2006, 11:55 AM

Rendered in mentalray .
3dsmax 8
1) Light box
2) Light paper lamp

This thread is not a Gallery or Wip thread so your post is always offtopic if you
are not providing some information about. This thread is for share knowledge.

I just don't understand what I must be looking with awe or something. For me
both pictures show very burned areas and that is a common error in CG you
must always avoid.

Bao2

08-30-2006, 01:03 PM

The Ray Type shader from Horvatth Szabolcs's was pointed in this thread very
time ago but I think it was not understand for many people. In answer to
this post (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=398828) I will try make easier providing the mi and dll in one zip.

Imagine you want an object showing a different result for one or several
components than you are achieving: perhaps some lighter or darker result
or perhaps a completely different one. You need control each component
indicating then the new bitmap to be used (a copy of the diffuse one used
but changing the rgb level in the output rollout to make darker for example).

You can change reflections, photon (color bleed), refraction...

Create a new mental ray material and put the RayType (ctrl_RayType) map
in the surface. Enter the RayType and put the bitmap for your diffuse: eye slot.
Now exit the ray type and your mental ray material is doing the normal thing.

If you now render and want to change something, simply enter the raytype again,
check the override you want control and below change the color or map.
I hope this post clarify better than previously it was.

Another example: you have a scene with a chrome ball and a red ball. The chrome
ball is reflecting the red ball and you see it is red. Enter the red ball raytype and
check override reflection and set the color to green below in the color box (or place
a bitmap green shifted). Render and you now see a green ball reflecting in the chrome
ball.
The best use is using the bitmap you use in the eye slot (diffuse) but altered (blurred,
rgb level in the output rollout,...) in other component.

The RayType (http://www.impresszio.hu/szabolcs/MentalRay/RayType.htm) from Horvatth Szabolcs's site.

Below is my package with a max .mi file (RayType v1.1)

(http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=398828)

Bao2

08-30-2006, 02:59 PM

RayType scene:

I was thinking newbies can be confused yet so I decided post a scene file.

Open this file and render.
Open material editor and you can see the material 03 is applied to the sphere02 object.
Now apply the 04a material to the red ball and render.
It renders bad and so I am wrong what I said in post above?
Apply 04b and render. Now it looks right. We are using a mental ray material with
a RayType shader and it is rendering the same like the 03 material because we used
the material to shader material to give all the info for the material
Now apply 05 and render. Now we have the green reflection.

F3LIC3

08-30-2006, 04:51 PM

First I want to say, that this is an awesome thread and I've learnd much from it.

Rendered in mentalray .
3dsmax 8
1) Light box
2) Light paper lamp

- mentalray lume shader - translucency ...test

Would you please give us some information about the use of the translucency(lume) shader?
I tried to achieve a result with it myself, but didn't managed it...

evil-98

08-31-2006, 10:12 AM

ive been really curious about why your render come out like this jeff
seems like every edge has a bloom of the full spectrum and i love it.
how do i achieve this in my renders? :deal:

also does the IOR in DGS materials affect the reflection at all? i did a test
and it didnt seem like it, or maybe it did.

i tested the car paint shader and it seems pretty power full, and a bit too
complicated, i will play with it more and when i get something good ill post it.

heres a lighting animation test i did with the fast skin sss. i didnt do the model
i got it off of silo's site. basic 3 point lighting, centered the pivot to the head
and spun it around. FG, HDRI, DOF, 3 point, and glare. great combination i say.
animation download (http://evil98.insanity-asylum.com/evil/sss%20light.rar)

edit: i forgot to tell you guys, the surprising thing about the SSS render is i didnt
tough the material settings at all. all i did was scale the model correctly and vwa la
i was very surprised and happy with my results. does look abit waxy but thats can be
fixed

Bao2

08-31-2006, 02:16 PM

seems like every edge has a bloom of the full spectrum and i love it.

Very curious thing. I am waiting the Jeff answer also.:eek:

i tested the car paint shader and it seems pretty power full, and a bit too
complicated, i will play with it more and when i get something good ill post it.

I am also playing. Now I have to test the dirt thing more.
You are able to do the same thing the ReflectionUtility does but with
more quality and speed so perhaps someone using the ReflectionUtility
wants to know this.
This carpaint is a phenomena: it is a script calling different shaders. Well it is
not calling some parameters in some shaders and they seem very interesting ones
but perhaps don't work. I have to test that and I will post here.

heres a lighting animation test i did with the fast skin sss.

Downloaded two times and the two: file corrupted. (Winrar 3.51 used).
It is better use zip. You can download a rar file and have errors and think it is not
your fault and only after months understand you need a more advanced winrar version.
Is it the case with this? You must use zip files to avoid this problems, I hope some day
winrar says "Error: you need a more advanced version" instead "error" like it does just now.

does look abit waxy but thats can be
fixed

The image looks a bit waxy... Yes. Well perhaps a little more than a little bit... :)

Bao2

08-31-2006, 02:27 PM

some information about the use of the translucency(lume) shader?
I tried to achieve a result with it myself, but didn't managed it...

Post your image and tell what is wrong.
That shader has two color slots I just now don't remember
exactly the name. The above one is the color/bitmap to be used where no light
hits. The bottom one is the used where the light hits. The light can hit from
inside or outside. So if light is inside the outside faces get hitted also like
a SSS shader.
You must have a thing in mind with this shader:
1) Your object have no inside faces (create a cylinder and delete the top and
bottom faces and you have only external faces): use the lume transparency shader
but using a double sided material
2) Your object have inside faces (a shelll modifier used): use directly the lume not
double sided material is needed.

3DMadness

08-31-2006, 03:56 PM

Very curious thing. I am waiting the Jeff answer also.
I bet it's the glare shader. ;)

BTW, I also had a file corrupt here with evil-98 rar file. :shrug:

F3LIC3

08-31-2006, 05:26 PM

@Bao2: Thank you, I managed it now...:)
I didn't know that, the Translucency Shader is that easy to use. I tried to use it in many ways, but I was simply too stupid to find the right one...:shrug:

sorry for my bad english btw...

evil-98

08-31-2006, 05:32 PM

ahh that sucks, i could open it.. ill zip it then. :scream:

NBF

09-01-2006, 12:28 AM

Finely had a chance to play with the Car Paint Shader.
I used the standard shader with small adjustments to the
Flake density, Flake scale, Flake decay. I also used the blured
reflections feature. The dirt was applied with a mask to the dirt weight.
To use a bump or displacement map I had to use a blend with the same
dirt mask applied to it. Slapped on a HDRI and one MR omni and there you have
it.

NBF

09-01-2006, 12:43 AM

My max file and a close up. Had to get rid of the surface due to file size, just apply a surface mod to the splines.

JeffPatton

09-01-2006, 01:04 AM

ive been really curious about why your render come out like this jeff
seems like every edge has a bloom of the full spectrum and i love it.
how do i achieve this in my renders? :deal:I added the chromatic aberration & fake vignette effects in post (Photoshop) via a plugin called PTLens. Here's more info if you're interested: http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/index.html
It can REALLY add a lot of realism to your renders...by making them look like a crappy digital camera picture! :thumbsup:

evil-98

09-01-2006, 01:21 AM

thanks for the quick reply. ill give it a try. from what ive seen from you it really does do wonders. :thumbsup:

EquiNOX

09-01-2006, 08:35 AM

NBF

09-01-2006, 11:50 AM

Thanks for sharing NBF, but there are few missing jpg such as mud map. I can't really tell how it would look when render. When I render, it was blank except for pole. So I couldn't determine how I could do on my own to the one you achieve with dirt/mud map like one in pics. Care to explain how you did this, or give me picture example of your map?? The paint shader with flake look awesone. It took me a while struggling to get it right. Again, thanks.

Attached is a sample of the mud map the only thing different is the size, there is also
a separate displacement map applied to the blend that looks very similar to the mud map
except that I Isolated only the center of the mud map. The ground plane is just a standered
texture map and you can put any HDRI or bitmap in the Enviorment slot for reflections.
As far as the Geometry goes only the door is Included and it is spline data at the moment,
but all you have to do is apply a surface modifier to it. Set the thershold to .51 with 3 steps. I think thats it. Also if you want I can email you the original file.

EquiNOX

09-02-2006, 04:25 AM

Thanks NBF or sharing... this is cool stuffs but it make slow render. (No FG enabled) I guess because of displacement. Once again Thanks BTW... I thought its cool to know we live in same state but 3 to 4 hrs apart.

gideong

09-06-2006, 02:40 PM

hi guys

anyone know the location of the cgsociety MR matlib that is to work in max 7 & 8.

i trawled back through this monster thread till i nearly got the sack from my job

cheers

gideong

09-06-2006, 03:06 PM

Somehow i have missed out mental ray, i have gone from scanline straight past mental ray to a demo of vray and am only just seeing the potential of MR. This thread is wiked, but when trying to find the CG Society Matlib file that will work with max 8 i am struggling, i tried the one right at the start of this thread but got errors, anyone know the post no of the latest version.

cheers

EquiNOX

09-07-2006, 02:05 AM

MR is unlike VRay.... Mostl of mats work with any verson of Max with MR bundled except max 3 or lower, I think...

gideong

09-07-2006, 08:35 AM

Hmm,

i gather mental ray is a lot more accessable than vray however i keep getting dll missing files error.

Bercon

09-07-2006, 11:55 AM

I'm trying to learn how to write mental ray shaders. The mental ray manual (mr_reference) that comes with max really sucks. It doesn't explain functions properly and provides only few examples. Unfotunately there aint many mental ray shader writing tutorials in the net either. So, has anybody here tried to write some shaders themselves and if you have, what reference material you used? Once I'll get home today I try to gather all my sources... But here is the perhaps best source I found: http://animus.brinkster.net/logo.html muh has shader sources of all materials he has written, dirtmap, diffraction an diffusion shaders which are great help when starting to write shaders for mental ray.

- Jerry

Pixero

09-07-2006, 12:27 PM

Some stuff to get you started with Mentalray shader programming.

MentalRay primer: Great starting point but has been down for some time.
I have most of the site saved in a zip file here:
http://www.pixero.com/stuff/Mentalray_Primer.zip (http://www.pixero.com/stuff/Mentalray_Primer.zip)

Nanomation:
http://www.nanomation.co.uk/Programming-101.html
http://www.nanomation.co.uk/Programming-102.html

LAMRUG:
http://www.lamrug.org/
http://forum.lamrug.org

Serious stuff by Gonzalo Garramuno:
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=100649
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mrliquid

Paolo Berto:
http://www.jupiter-jazz.com/

Other:
http://www.wahn.demon.co.uk/ShaderWriting/Filmakademie/index.html
http://sparks.discreet.com/knowledgebase/techdocs/searchable/techdoc_mentalrayshaders/Wrting_MR_Shaders.htm

Hope this helps!

By the way what's the status on SME?

JeffPatton

09-07-2006, 12:56 PM

however i keep getting dll missing files error.
Those are missing shader error messages. The error message itself will give you the name of the shader that it's looking for. From that, you can go to maxplugins.de and download the shader. Or you can ignore the message. It won't stop you from using most of the materials in that library...only a few of those required custom shaders. I should probably just delete those to keep this issue from coming up.

gideong

09-07-2006, 01:14 PM

nice one jeff, i'll try it after work

F3LIC3

09-07-2006, 08:49 PM

Do anyone of you know what the oversampling_lens shader does exactly?
I only know that it increases the number of samples, but how ?
Does it exponentiate my normal sampling or what?
I need it to decrease my rendertimes with the path_material.

Thx F3LIC3!

ESAD

09-11-2006, 04:18 AM

I need to render a rope light like the kind used in the ceilings of many custom motor homes.
I thought this might be able to be done using a material mapped onto a tube which is wrapped along like a snake.
Maybe the material is half a standard material and half a MR glow or similar?
The lights should be spaced every 2 inches.

I though this would be the only way to go as placing a million omni lights is something that is counter productive and would drive the GI times too high.

Anyone have any ideas or want to give it a try?
Any help would be much appreciated.

BrianHarbauer

09-11-2006, 05:36 AM

Why not have the mesh emit the light? Just map the rope light with the texture and put where the bulbs are supposed to be as a map in the self-illumination slot. Then turn on final gathering and you should have light that way too. I guess that's kinda time expensive for rendering, but that's always an option. It's probably what Iwould do. Or you could do the final gathering and then bake the illumination to geometry that way rendertimes would be nothing.

gulio

09-11-2006, 09:30 PM

Hi ESAD,
we had a whole discussion about this topic some pages up. Search for ctrl_objectlights. Some say it works others don´t. I´ve found this

http://plugins.angstraum.at/neon/index.htm#

which uses radiosity but maybe it´s the more convenient way to achieve a neon look.

EquiNOX

09-13-2006, 04:15 PM

Guilo-- This neon plugin works only on Default scanline render not Mental ray... And to remind you, this is Mental Ray tread topic. Unless you can tell me how it works with MR.

loran

09-13-2006, 04:43 PM

You re wrong Equinox, this is a Mental Ray -Shader thread topic.

It s forbidden to speak about light here.

Beware, I ever been slam for this

gulio

09-14-2006, 11:25 AM

Hi EquiNOX,
thanks for your reminder :rolleyes:

EquiNOX

09-14-2006, 02:38 PM

Come on Loran, use common sense! Of course I am talking about shader. However, Neon plugin is not a light, its still consider shader but not under mental ray.

ESAD

09-14-2006, 02:43 PM

What he said! Err. . .

Thanks guys.

ssmith3

09-15-2006, 05:56 PM

I am trying to use the dirtmap shader to render this building and for some reason I can’t get the shadows to work right. The shadows land on the ground dark like they are working correctly but the shadows that hit the building are almost invisible. Does anyone know what could be causing this? It only happens when I use the Dirtmap Shader.

Also I am looking for better ways to render buildings like this without getting into a lot of texturing detail. Does anyone know of some other texture / lighting solutions that might yield a better looking final image? Any input at all would be very useful.

http://www.sds2k.com/cgtalk/Valencia.jpg

gulio

09-16-2006, 09:54 AM

As for what I know the Dirtmap shader is outdated, better use the ambient occlusion shader. For simple mapping you can use the Material Override in the Processing tab in the render dialog. Put a MR mat there and use the ao shader as surface.

Dashkevicz

09-16-2006, 01:54 PM

Hello ssmith3,

Another Architectural Illustrator? Cool. Anyhow, your best bet is to unlock one of the base illumination shaders that come with mental ray if you havn't already (if you haven't, they have directons on this forum, if not this very thread) like "illum blinn (base)".

To start this material you will have to "build it" using the "mental ray material":
1: Put the Illum blin (base) in the surface slot of the mental ray material.

2: Use the ambient occlusion shader in the "ambience" slot.

3: It is important to raise the value of the "ambient " slot to a medium, cool grey (it "multiplies the color in the slot above the same way photoshop's multiply layer mode works, so black will make anything under it black, and white leaves it untouched)

4: Then I would set the diffuse to a light, warm tone.

Almost forgot to tell you, I almost ALWAYS use "max distance" perameter... for an architectural model, built to scale, I'd mess with values between 4 and 20 feet...maybe. :)

This is a quick test I did. And let me know how this works out for you.

Bercon

09-16-2006, 05:18 PM

Dirtmap shader provides some functionality that AO shader doesn't. And its as fast as AO shader, perhaps even slightly faster. So its hardly outdated...

JHaywood

09-16-2006, 05:39 PM

A couple questions for the last two posters...

1) What does the Illum bline (base) shader do that other non-hidden shaders don't?

2) What extra functionality does the dirt shader have over AO?

petere

09-16-2006, 07:22 PM

A couple questions for the last two posters...

1) What does the Illum bline (base) shader do that other non-hidden shaders don't?

2) What extra functionality does the dirt shader have over AO?

1) Don't know exactly

2) No difference, Dirtmap is an faulty named abient occlusion method.

-P

Bercon

09-16-2006, 08:45 PM

Please tell me how you can set minimium distance of occlusion ray a.k.a. "Near Clip" in AO shader...

"1) What does the Illum bline (base) shader do that other non-hidden shaders don't?"
It does blinn shading (like default shading of Standard material), which other shader does just that?

evil-98

09-19-2006, 07:27 AM

another lighting test with SSS Fast Skin, not were i want it but its pretty cool. just wanted to post the results.

lighting was an mr Area Omni, and a skylight. im rendering another lighting animation again, hopefully i can share this one.

some post work in PS.

http://evil98.insanity-asylum.com/evil/mr_sunlight.jpg

arel

09-20-2006, 08:05 AM

hey, guys..

can someone tell me what does the speed of FG calculation depend on? i mean even when i set the samples value to 20 it still takes like 30-40 mins only to calculate FG. i also tried altering the radius value but then settled on 5 px as i'm still testing. is it normal?

the GI samples value is 500-1000, i have two mr Omni's in the scene.

why does it take so long?

loran

09-20-2006, 08:34 AM

Arel, if you don't want to be crucified run as fast as you can... there is no "Shader" topic in your post!

But I don t mind this :)
FG speed depend on both ray numbers and radius. test your scene with 10 or 20 rays and leave the radius automatic first. Maybe your scene is about 1 Million poly I dont know...

ray number: smoothy, finest result
radius: shading precision. keep it small if your scene is very detailed

you can then try to set the FG trace depth end to the max scale of what you see in the camera. This can speed calculation if you have a bigger scene out there.

arel

09-20-2006, 09:10 AM

loran, thnx for the reply.. ;)

i have a fairly simple scene with appx 273000 polies. it's just a room interior and there aren't really many objects there.. it's just the speed is like one tenth of per cent per 2-3 seconds and this is with samples set to 20.. the machine is p4, 3.20 ghz, 1gb ram.. or is it quite usual for it to take that long to calculate? am i just missing something? because i'm afraid to imagine how long it would take to render the final image with, say, even 500 samples.. :shrug:

arel

09-20-2006, 09:34 AM

ok, i got it..

i just reduced the sample value for GI and it seems to be going way faster..

ps sorry for the off-topic, i just couldn't find any info on this anywhere as there aren't really tutorials for FG :)

c3drundi

09-20-2006, 07:28 PM

I'm new to the forum... I trying to use Matte/Shadow in Max 7 with MR and I'm trying to cast Caustics on a 3D head that I have matched to a Photo in order to put 3D jewles on the person in the image... but Mental ray gives me an error... no photons stored after emitting 10,000 ... then same after 1000000:sad:

Does Matte/Shadow not work in MR in Max 7 or do I need to up grade to 8 or 9...

I hope I'm posting my question in the right place I've never posted anything on a forum before.

hjalle

09-23-2006, 02:14 AM

Matte/Shadow cant save Caustics, sorry.

Dashkevicz

09-23-2006, 03:23 AM

c3drundi,

Here is a custom shader written by Stephen Gustafson that should do the trick... there are others that may, some of them on maxplugins.de

http://www.maxplugins.de/mr_files/vormav/irradiance_matte.zip

Jaywood,

The mental images blinn shader works better with other mental ray shaders and it has both ambient and "ambience" perameters so you can tweak the "ambient contibution" by multiplying the result by a color. It also seems to render quicker....sometimes.

c3drundi

09-25-2006, 02:24 PM

Rayan
I put in my mentalray/shaders_standard/include sub folder and I opened the Material editor to created a blank MR material I selected the serface slot but couldn't find the irradiance_matte material... what an I dooing wrong?
:sad:

Dashkevicz

09-26-2006, 04:14 AM

I put my set of custom shaders in the "autoload" folder. Otherwise you must "path" them manually, I don't remember how because I never do it. Ther are other replies on this forum for more detailed info.

ssmith3

09-26-2006, 06:11 PM

I figured out why the shadows where not showing up on the model. In a previous post someone suggested to add the dirtmap into the self-illumination slot of the shader. This is what was causing the shadows to show so dim. When I removed it from the illum slot the problem was solved. It also made for some better contrast on the model. Here is what it looks like now.
http://www.sds2k.com/cgtalk/Valencia-1.jpg

TTYO

10-04-2006, 07:32 AM

http://www.finalrender.com/products/images/finalShaders/fR-DistanceFur_01.jpg
Hey anyone have simulated this?

stefan

10-05-2006, 10:18 AM

Has had anybody any luck with ctrl_multidisplace shader? Does it work in max? Coud anyone share simmple working scene. By me it only displace first level.

gulio

10-05-2006, 10:56 AM

I´ve tried it a while ago, but also the same here. :sad:

bjr898

10-06-2006, 08:44 PM

I read somewhere that there was a custom mental ray shader that would fake edge chamfering? Is that true and if so does anyone know where I can get it.

3DMadness

10-06-2006, 10:12 PM

I read somewhere that there was a custom mental ray shader that would fake edge chamfering? Is that true and if so does anyone know where I can get it.
It will come in max 9 but I don't know if it's available for max 8, if it is you will find it at www.maxplugins.de (http://www.maxplugins.de) ;)

BrianHarbauer

10-11-2006, 07:18 AM

Is there anyone here that knows how to write a shader to accomplish this? I know there are mental ray plugins that will do this, but they cost over $200.
Mental ray right now doesn't respect pixel luminence when it blurs, such as a low dynamic range image like picture (A). Where as a real camera would blur like the second picture (B).

....................A.........................................B.....................
http://www.highpoly3d.com/writer/tutorials/hdri/LDRI_blur.jpghttp://www.highpoly3d.com/writer/tutorials/hdri/HDRI_blur.jpg

Supposedly I wanted to make a scene that looked like I took a long exposure with someone walking around with a flashlight, or traffic zipping through the city. Or a star field turning with long streaks from a long "exposure". Currently this wouldn't work... Unless people want to drop $200 on a plugin. The other effect that would be really nice is the Bokeh effect. I know a shader has been written for this for maya mr that's free, but as far as I know not for max. Thoughts anyone?

P.S. This is the plugin I was referring to.
http://www.evasion3d.com/xd_mr_intro.html

loran

10-11-2006, 09:17 AM

Try render your scene in 32bits OEXR or HDR and use compositing tools like AfterEffects7.
This might works.

BrianHarbauer

10-11-2006, 06:34 PM

Thanks, I will try that out!

Tim007

10-12-2006, 12:20 PM

Hello,

this thread is so great.
But where I can get these dirt shaders and other you talking about ?

I download some sample scene you have been posted. But missing dlls for dirtmap and the others. :(((

Where I can get it?

thanks and sorry for my english.

BrianHarbauer

10-12-2006, 05:38 PM

ssmith3

10-12-2006, 06:36 PM

The dirtmap shader is discussed back on page 8 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=104578&page=8&pp=15) of this thread. Markus has a link to the actual dirtmap plugin (http://members.chello.at/thebigmuh/Dirtmap/Dirtmap.zip). Also, Greeble can be found on the max plugins page located here (http://maxplugins.de/max8.php?search=&sort=Author).

I hope this helps.

Hello,

this thread is so great.
But where I can get these dirt shaders and other you talking about ?

I download some sample scene you have been posted. But missing dlls for dirtmap and the others. :(((

Where I can get it?

thanks and sorry for my english.

yargola

10-17-2006, 09:19 AM

anyone knows if the shader that is here:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=104578&page=214&pp=15 post #3210 still works in 3ds max 9?

JeffPatton

10-17-2006, 01:08 PM

Looks like the mrGeomShaderObject.dlo will need to be recompiled in order to work with Max9. Beyond that, I don't know if the geolights shader will work any better with Max9...but technically (to my knowledge) it never worked properly in previous versions. So I wouldn't expect it to work in 9 either.

rdg

10-17-2006, 03:02 PM

Looks like the mrGeomShaderObject.dlo will need to be recompiled in order to work with Max9.

My copy of MAX 9 didn't arrive yet. If it is here and nobody has recompiled the dlo I can install my vsC++ and compile it.

Georg

KV99

10-18-2006, 11:46 AM

Thanks so much Loran! The 32bit setting makes all the difference in the world!:eek:
Here's a frame grab from the quick test. It's a particle cloud with the mr glow shader assigned and the camera with mental ray dof @ f/1. I also did the motion blur and it worked PERFECT! If you'd like to see a picture I can upload that too when I get home. Thanks again!

If you are interested -why- it makes all the difference in the world, search google for High Dynamic Range imagery articles and the like. It works like this on motion blur because render is simulating a film shot, and image is burned on film as a result of exposure to light. The more intense the light is, the more is burned on the film, thus as computer monitors have only 256 shades of one type of color, it is not so in real life. While 256 256 256 256 is White on monitor and -may- be white on real life to your eyes, its not -white- per se, compared to Sun for example. High dynamic range imagery and renders dont confine themselves in this silly 256 shades limit and go beyond, which is why such intense lighting will be stored correctly on motion blur rendering and the like.

Another suggestion would be to learn a bit about linear workflow (google or this thread here may help) and convert your colors into real life (eye) values as well. 128 128 128 gray is not mid-tone gray for ones eye, its just mathematical gray.

Warning though, going for linear workflow can mess up your own -myths- and you might have to relearn your approach to materials, textures, coloring and lighting a bit, because you, as I and probably very many others, had no idea theres such a difference when we began with CGI, thus we learned the basics incorrectly.