CGTalk - XSI Face

hypercube

06-12-2002, 03:27 AM

Awesome stuff. Got some great maps and model going there. Amazing eye and lips.

I do agree it seems severely glossy though, and it looks like the bump is dropping out in places, like anywhere there's high gloss. Kind of makes it look like she's covered in laquer or severely wet.

I like girls with freckles just fine, FWIW. :) I think all you need to do is tweak out the maps/the application of them, it'll be really incredible.

Blackarts

06-12-2002, 04:41 AM

wow!

thats some great modelling and texturing. Stunning realism.

Sama3d

06-12-2002, 04:47 AM

Very nice.

She looks very sick like she got some nasty case of the shitz. The tissue color around her eyes looks wierd. Also the tear duct looks like theres a hole in there, its very deep too and shows alot of flesh.

-Sama

GRMac13

06-12-2002, 05:11 AM

Good work, Kohler. Although to me, it looks more like a young boy than a woman, can't figure out why, maybe it's the cheekbones. I agree that it's too glossy in some areas. Also, your maps are stretching in the corners of the eyes/bridge of the nose. I think you should render some shots from a decent angle, those extreme close-ups are a bit harsh, and it's hard to get a sense of the overall piece. Overall good work, maybe lighten up a tad on the bump mapping, those are some BIG pores.

Jungul

06-12-2002, 05:15 AM

She looks like she just took a slime bath.

...but looks great!

wmendez

06-12-2002, 05:15 AM

Very Nice indeed, can we have a full facial pic?

echo

06-12-2002, 05:25 AM

Hey there,
that's nice, good work.
I do think that everything is too glossy, a little too plastic.
As far as I'm concerned, I think it is almost there, but I would work on the plastic, shiny touch....
take a look at amazonsoul.com
Just my toughts, take 'em or leave 'em
cheers

Atyss

06-12-2002, 05:33 AM

My God, what a nice job!

Bernard Lebel

Grey

06-12-2002, 05:38 AM

This has got to be the best sales pitch for XSI I've ever seen.

Even though her face looks very wet or maybe covered in Baby Oil I don't think I've seen a more realistic render anywhere.

jason-slab

06-12-2002, 06:29 AM

amazing:thumbsup:

tal flint

06-12-2002, 07:56 AM

good work with the textures,although like the others said it's too glossy.
i don't think it's a good sales pitch for xsi, it's a great sales pitch fot photoshop :-).

cmortier

06-12-2002, 07:57 AM

Superb modeling and texturing, great work.
I think that there are too much reflexion, on the lips for exemple.
I hope I will one day model and texture like you.
:applause:

Livio3d

06-12-2002, 08:53 AM

Great :)
very nice work

MrWyatt

06-12-2002, 09:48 AM

Great work!!!! But the nosetip on the first pic still looks a bit edgy.

RDK

06-12-2002, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by HellRender
well, everything seems to be over-glossified... lips are REALLY glossed over, the corner of the eyes (the ones closer to the nose) are really glossy, and the pupil, seems to be a bit too far back in the actual eye... and the skin seems a bit wierd with those brown splotches

but GREAT work!!!!

I agree, the gloss lets down the whole model

tomb

06-12-2002, 10:22 AM

Incredible detail. It's like your exaggerating every little detail of the skin. It makes me feel repulsed and attracted at the same time. Whatever it is it's fantastic.

Thank-you for showing us something that we have never seen before. I would love to see this blown up and hanging in an art gallery.

raffael3d

06-12-2002, 10:32 AM

great work!!:applause:

Nazgul

06-12-2002, 11:51 AM

But would love it even more if the images weren't so compressed! This close to the textures, you gotta have hi-rez!

Very nice images, very detailed. How much time did it take you to do this? :D

Hoping to see more sometime soon,

Wiro

06-12-2002, 12:16 PM

Except for the glossiness it's awesome! Could you maybe show how you created the texturemaps since you say no photos were used? It sounds like ALOT of work to paint all those bumps and wrinkles!

I don't know jack about XSI or MR but since you are using real reflections for speculars (which is the most accurate but also the slowest way ;)) isn't there a way to control the softness of reflections? It almost looks like there is a set ammount of softness to all the gloss overall (but the intensity varies). The ridge of the nose, around the eyes, etc should have a much softer specularity while the lips look fine. Also the wrinkles on the lips don't come out as much in the specularity which adds to the illusion that she's covered in varnish. Maybe deepen the bump there?

Great work nonetheless

Wiro

psil

06-12-2002, 12:25 PM

amazing work! stunning hand painted colour maps

I have to agree that the reflections look a bit like a laquer sitting on the surface - esp on lower lip. I don't know XSI, but you could try using your bump map to break up the reflections so that they conform to the skin relief. Or something.

Brilliant :thumbsup:

Cman

06-12-2002, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by GRMac13
Good work, Kohler. Although to me, it looks more like a young boy than a woman, can't figure out why, maybe it's the cheekbones. I agree that it's too glossy in some areas. Also, your maps are stretching in the corners of the eyes/bridge of the nose. I think you should render some shots from a decent angle, those extreme close-ups are a bit harsh, and it's hard to get a sense of the overall piece. Overall good work, maybe lighten up a tad on the bump mapping, those are some BIG pores.

Great job! but...I agree with all of this comment from GRMac13. I think she/he looks more he, maybe because of cheek bones and eyebrows?

Wiro

06-12-2002, 12:42 PM

Where did he mention it was a girl anyway? ;)

Wiro

arvid

06-12-2002, 12:47 PM

It's a girl ;)

the Rev.

06-12-2002, 02:24 PM

she looks great! And contrary to the popular vote, I kind'a like the glossy look... although there may be too much around the nose ridge.
I love the glossy look around the eyes though. It kind'a looks like she's been crying.
One question though. What did you use to make the eyelashes? GREAT work there!:bounce:

EdHarriss

06-12-2002, 02:24 PM

Excellent work Köhler.
You painted those textures....
Very impressive!

JoeArtist

06-12-2002, 02:32 PM

Wow! I think a little more diffusion would go a long way in pushing this toward realisim. I LIKE the splotches. I like the imperfections. But it's like perfect underpainting in need of some softening. So... are you a "Chuck Close" fan or what? :applause:

Köhler

06-12-2002, 03:07 PM

There's nothing to show outside the images you've already seen, there wont be any zoom out now, because the lightning is not finished and no hair is added.
when that's done there will be a hole picture, but for now the closups will do....here comes the wire/shaded model :)

jetco

06-12-2002, 03:09 PM

Great Work!!!!! Awesome................................

specialized

06-12-2002, 03:11 PM

nice! :thumbsup:

3D_Mike

06-12-2002, 03:18 PM

Incredible! Absolutely amazing, you are very talented, completely insane but talented j/k

All comments about overglossiness are in my opinion invalid cause the model is so true to reality. Ive seen photographs with a less real look.

Köhler

06-12-2002, 03:21 PM

Color texture....and bump...

Köhler

06-12-2002, 03:22 PM

Bump texture...

animalunae

06-12-2002, 04:15 PM

Nice work, it would be almost perfect if the glossyness would be a lot lower, especially above the eyes and on the nose, guess you've noticed it allready, mentioned in other posts, just wanted to say this, good job, keep it up

Echo 0515

06-12-2002, 04:48 PM

surprise!!~~~~~~!!!
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

liquid_tension

06-12-2002, 05:36 PM

HEY KOHLER I LOVE THE EYES, AND SO THE LIPS BUT I THINK HER TEETH DONT LOOK VERY ATRACTIVE, I DONT KNOW IT ITS THEIR SHAPE, OR THE TEXTURE THAT THEY SEEM KIND OF DIRTY, TOO DARK, ANYWAYS GREAT JOB AND COOL TEXTURES!
:thumbsup:

arvid

06-12-2002, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by liquid_tension
HEY KOHLER I LOVE THE EYES, AND SO THE LIPS BUT I THINK HER TEETH DONT LOOK VERY ATRACTIVE, I DONT KNOW IT ITS THEIR SHAPE, OR THE TEXTURE THAT THEY SEEM KIND OF DIRTY, TOO DARK, ANYWAYS GREAT JOB AND COOL TEXTURES!
:thumbsup:

the capslock button to the left of your A key :p :wip: :D ;)

telecaustic

06-12-2002, 07:20 PM

Man I really hate to say anything, cause I COULD NOT MODEL or Texture anything even close to this, plus I usually don't say anything about stuff I don't like. Overall, I think this is pretty rad, really rad. But there are some things that are weird. I like the pores, it shows an amazing amount of detail, but the look oddly placed or inconsistent or something. A guy (who is not a 3D person) just walked by and said "Who is that? then when he got closer he she, "man she is really young to have prores that big." I don't know it was just something I noticed as well andwhen he said something too, I thought you ought to know about it. I think this could be "F*@king Awesome" with a little tweaking instead of just Really Awesome, as it is. Good Luck, I hop you tweak some more.

BTW, more freckles, freckles are soooo cool on a chick.

c.w

animalunae

06-12-2002, 07:24 PM

Note that skin is transglucent and that the teeth and eyes are too, but a lot more, Steven Stahlberg wrote a very nice view on this, perhaps you should check it out at his website here (http://www.androidblues.com/).

anthonyenos

06-12-2002, 10:27 PM

I would agree with the other comments about the glossiness, but I'll assume you wanted that. The one thing that bothers me is that the bump map for the pores seems like a stamp brush that's been dabbed in random areas. I think it needs a little more variety in the pattern of the bump. Looks great though.

rusky

06-12-2002, 11:00 PM

very impressive !! maybe too much wet and specular...
but i think.. it's something that you want so...

:bounce:

cheers !

krisr

06-12-2002, 11:59 PM

I really like the gloss around the eye ball....nice :thumbsup: You definately should post this on next months gallery at SoftImage's website. Keep up the good work.

raffael3d

06-13-2002, 12:50 AM

very detailed, how long did it take to accomplish the whole head?

Grey

06-13-2002, 01:37 AM

one other thing I noticed:

Her irises appear funnel shaped which gives her a bit of a surreal appearance. Perhaps that's intentional.

I'm still in awe and anxiously awaiting the final render. :D

H3rbie

06-13-2002, 01:48 AM

This I think is one of the best faces I've seen. OK its not the most photorealistic head ever created, the textures are not the closest to real skin I've seen...BUT this image has originality. Please dont go for pgotorealism more than U already have...I so loke these images

LyonHaert

06-13-2002, 02:06 AM

as far as the reflectivity and super-glossy look, it doesn't mesh with me. it makes her look like she's melting. some gloss on the lips would be fine with me, but not on the skin.

another contradiction between the skin and the lips is that you see all sorts of naturally accuring details in the skin, but the lips are fairly solid in color, making them seem 'painted.'

my final gripe is the eyes, in two parts. the iris seems to fade into the pupil, and it seems strange. usually the iris does get quite darker right near the pupil, but there is still a distinct edge there. the other thing is that the eyes seem too flat in shape, as if the her eyeball is 2-3 times the diameter it's supposed to be. and she has not corneas.

as far as praise, i'll do that when she's done :)

tal flint

06-13-2002, 06:41 AM

any chance of you explaining how you created the color map ?

Lucifugous

06-13-2002, 11:03 AM

:twisted:

eek

06-13-2002, 04:13 PM

Hey Köhler,

Its absoultly fantastic!!!!, unbelivable how the hell did you make her so real!. Beautiful, stunning i dont know what else to say!!! How did you do the glossy affect. The detail in the skin is incredible!

You should team up with Ulf Lundgren!

Ee:eek:K

Facial Deluxe

06-13-2002, 04:38 PM

How the hell gave LESS than 5 stars to this ???
The one who did this might have VERY big skills...
It's a TOP work to me. I really don't care about the high reflections, I assume it's esthetic choice, damn well assumed.
Big congrats to the Artist.

Rogue

06-13-2002, 07:53 PM

That's impressive to say the least. Very nice model but I'm blown away with the hand painted textures. Sweet. Looking forward to the final shot.

gaggle

06-13-2002, 08:30 PM

Wow, I'm totally blown away by the level of detail:love:

I'd also be very interested if you would care to explain a bit about the process of making the textures. Like others I also think the glossiness is a tad overdone in places (beautiful lips and teeth though).

Skin has various underlying veins and bone-structures that, in such closeups, might make a difference if they were included. Skin is slightly trancelucent, I don't know if Sub Surface Scattering and such would be "the next step".

Anyways, amazing stuff man, goodlord, a face that holds up to such closeups is a detailed face in-deed.

E_Moelzer

06-13-2002, 10:27 PM

Hello
Great Work!
Especially the texturing is awesome. I wish I had your patience for painting such detailed textures...
I also like the idea of using reflections instead of fake specular, I thought about that also once, but gave up on it as soon as I realized the amount of rendertime and additional work needed for that.
I am not sure whether you used a real environment to reflect (raytraced reflections) or only a reflectionmap (or spherical environment like a lightprobe/HDRI), if the first then the rendertimes must be enormous.
Anyway this technique may be the cause of your "problems" with the glossiness. You have to control the "glossiness" with the bump- map (bump- strength) for the pores (freckles, whatsoever) now, right?
Anyway I would think that you should turn the bump- mapping up a bit then to disperse the reflections a bit more.
I also would guess that the reflection- settings are to high and maybe also the amount of diffuse light accepted by the surface...
If one had to have such such strong hightlights on a face the reflections on the eyes would have to be much stronger also.
One more question, are you using HDRI for the environment?
It is because I am not sure about the abilities of XSIs renderer right now.
Anyway, great work, cant wait to see more!
CU
Elmar

tobalno3

06-13-2002, 11:25 PM

looks good...but can we see the entire face shot with the rendering and not all those little close ups.

arvid

06-13-2002, 11:44 PM

(sorry to speak for you Köhler but I dont think you mind) ;)

It's a HDR effect created inside XSI with textures and FinalGathering, it gives you a lightprobe effect, we've been developing these lighting techniques, me and Köhler, the goal was realism, thus getting rid of phong which is an unnatrual effect created for speed of course. I think we've dug pretty deep into MentalRays capabilites, and XSI sure is willing to give hardcore access to everything you want through the Rendertree. The beauty of rendering with XSI is that you can look at how real life works, mimic the conditions and come up with awesome lighting effects.

cheers :beer:

Wiro

06-14-2002, 03:21 AM

I know what you mean by using real reflections instead of the usual phong/blinn "faked" highlights (I think it was also discussed in the texturing forum). It's a technique that was also heavily looked into by the testers of the different Max renderers (finalRender, Brazil, Arnold) and the availability of diffuse reflections has really helped enhance the look of true speculars (speculars are after all just reflections). But what most people here have tried to explain is that the reflections are too sharp for skin. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic model with some really good lighting. But I think you might have exaggerated the reflections too much simply because you had the power to...

If you could bring some more diffuseness into it (usually only the nose, forehead and lips are really that reflective) and make the reflections more subtle it would really enhance the look of the skin. And as someone else mentioned, subsurface scattering would really give it the extra punch :)

Wiro

Wiro

06-14-2002, 03:31 AM

By the way, here is an example of a friend and co-tester of finalRender, Johannes Schloerb.
He only used raytraced reflections as speculars but added diffuseness to them to make them blurry and more natural (as you can see on the walls and ceiling). It's a neat example of what you can do with subtle diffuse reflections.

http://raph.com/3dartists/artgallery/johannes_schlorb1.jpg

Wiro

Rogue

06-14-2002, 04:30 AM

Hey Wiro, that's a pretty awesome render.

The Magic Pen

06-14-2002, 04:50 AM

To friggen good man damn :buttrock:

wmendez

06-14-2002, 04:53 AM

XS @#&%# I.......Sweeeeet

petit

06-14-2002, 05:41 AM

:wip: Köhler. please give me one tutorial .thank you very much .
my email: f.petit@163.com

petit

06-14-2002, 06:20 AM

:wip: can you help me ? I give your modeling .you can help me textures ? thank you very much .what is you email?

E_Moelzer

06-14-2002, 10:48 AM

Hello Opacity
Thanks for the explanation.
I already thought you were doing it that way. That HDRI- stuff is possible in a pretty similar way in LW too (thats why I thought of you using that). As I said, I was about to use the same technique, but I gave up on it due to the "problems" and additional work necessary for that.
And yes, Phong does not really help making things look realistic...
I have a few more questions to that, if you dont mind:
1. Is it possible in XSI to control the bluring of reflections via textures (blurr less, blur more), or do you rely on the bump- map to do the bluring? Because the bluring for reflections is IMHO the same as the glossiness with specular...
2. You certainly make use of "ray color- clipping" (or better the lack of it)? I would guess that MR has that feature too...
Thinking about it, I might tend o say that the reflections are still to strong in some areas...
CU
Elmar

arvid

06-14-2002, 11:00 AM

not sure if you can connect a map to glossiness (thats what blurring of reflection is called in xsi) maybe some rendertree magic can work that out

im not sure i understand the term "ray color- clipping"

E_Moelzer

06-14-2002, 12:05 PM

Hey Opacity
That was quick!
So how do you control glossiness then? With the bump- map(like real life)?
See these questions were still unanswered to me when I was thinking about using this for a face, thats why I never tried it(that and the rendertimes)...
BTW, I like that blurriness of reflections is also called glossiness in XSI(which makes perfectly sense).
Ray- color- clipping means (or at least this what you get from it), that things brighter than 100% (which you also find in HDRI) reflect stronger than things below that brightness, an effect especially visible in surfaces with less than 100% reflectivity...
CU
Elmar

arvid

06-14-2002, 12:14 PM

ah I see, hadn't heard the expression before ;)
In order to get HDR effects this is a must, MR calculates everything at floating point, and you can even render to MR's own image format which is a floating point format perserving the light depth info! Although, Shake is the only app I know that can read them. It's very cool because this way you dont need to clip color values just because you're rendering to an 8bit/channel format, thus preserving brightness even when motionblurred, makes really cool effects.

You can always controll the bump, but the glossiness is just a slider in the phong/lambert/whatever shader node properies, there is a couple of inputs for glossiness, but they're vector data or something so one might have to convert it, but its likely that this can be done somehow, just never tried it.

E_Moelzer

06-14-2002, 01:26 PM

Hehe, your description of MRs- renderer reads just like the one for LWs ;)
So you use the bump- map to vary the glossiness on the face?
Anyway, cool stuff, show me more!!!
;)
CU
Elmar

arvid

06-14-2002, 01:28 PM

No I don't use bumpmap, I can control it just like I would control specular. Just need to test it some day :p

DXI

06-16-2002, 12:12 AM

OH MY GOD THAT ROCKS!!!!!:wavey: I give it:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: !!! KEEP IT "REAL" MAN! (or woman, I dont know)

Fred Heys

06-16-2002, 07:59 AM

nice texture, however i do find that the lips are far too shiney and so is the ledge under the eyes

wEvil

06-20-2002, 05:31 PM

Uhm..er....why, she's....beautiful.

I understand because its a technique demostration you probably won't want to tell anyone how to do it but for us poor people who are trying to get to grips with XSI would you mind at least posting a small tutorial on it?

For one you seem to have a brilliant grasp of the rendertree.

saj

06-20-2002, 06:22 PM

flippin heck mate, thats class. i'll give you credit for creating your own textures, they really are very nicely painted......i know its already been said but lets see the whole face yeah....oh and how about a wireframe shot......oh and one more thing...are you gonna animate her?

gaggle

06-20-2002, 06:52 PM

I think I'll die a happy man if she gets animated with the same sort of "hyper-realism" as that of her texturing.

When her head is done I certainly wouldn't mind some super-high resolution shot of her..mm..2048x?, to really be able to study the wonder that is she.

..on a more short-term type thing I wouldn't mind an update of any kind.. :thumbsup:

Uyanum

06-21-2002, 09:42 AM

I'dd like to see the final render of this one!
I like it with some hair i think...
But, as many have sad already,.. Slow down on the glossing!
It seem her face is rubed with dove or something...
Get the glow / gloss of!

Really great beside that!

Greetz Uy.