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js-rolhion
11-20-2003, 05:30 PM
Title : Dying
Soft : Zbrush tryout and photoshop for compositing and resizing (clouds, mountains, arrows)

I volontary choose gray tones for this one, to simply evocate the main theme. What does it mean for you ?



http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/think001.jpg


Technic part :
Polys : 105 K and some

I used zpheres tool, and texture master of the zbrush tryout version to create the creature.

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/think002.jpg

progerik
11-20-2003, 06:08 PM
good work :) I think the pose of the character isn`t strong enought it doesn`t really mean much, try to pose it in a more dramatic fashion

Rhid1en
11-20-2003, 06:26 PM
I agree, I'd try playing around with the composition and pose to make him look more in pain. You may not be wanting it to be a bloody scene, to me it comes off as almost more tranquil, but I would add a little blood coming out of the arrow holes...
Perhaps if you add somewhat of a naritive of what you're trying to make the viewer feel, or the backstory, we could help with more ideas..right now, I'm wondering why he's in a desert naked with arrows in him most of all?

MarkSnoswell
11-21-2003, 06:39 PM
The face is to passive. Go to www.FaceGen.com and download the free demo version of FaceGen. It includes facial poses for all the emotions -- so you can play around and make a face simillar to yours and then just turn up the expression you're after. Study it and see just what changes happen in the face. You can also exagerate the facial expression.

Garma
11-21-2003, 07:04 PM
you could also try a java applet a teacher of my university once wrote for her graduation. AFAI can remember there were presets but I can't find them now in the applet, but I tend to use it quite often for facial expressions. You can adjust every important part of the face with sliders, thus defining certain emotions. A little background knowledge is preferred for this tool though.

here you go FaceShop (http://www.kbs.twi.tudelft.nl/People/Students/E.J.deJongh/add_template_tool/)

gmask
11-21-2003, 07:08 PM
Seems liek another casual day sitting around with arrows stuck in him.. He doesn't seem to bothered by them.. maybe mildy annoyed a the most.

Overall the image is very undramatic and flat. The character is emotionless.. of th esample compositions you show of the character alone the best is the lower righthand one.. I guess because it hides all the things that are wrong or uninteresting about themain image but it actually makes a more interesting composition.. doesn't really speak of dying.

Without being to technical the pose of the character is very odd looking to me.. the twist in the torso seems unnatural and the hips and bend in the knee don't look right either.. alltogether it distracts from the the subject.

If had a couple of arrows stuck in my and was about to die I would expect that my legs would be splayed before me and be grabbing at the wounds and not my own neck and my head would probably be thrown back in agony. Assuming this character has blood I would expect there to be some ..perhaps alot running out of him as he dies.

The other thing I was kind of wondering abut was the teeth protruding from the ground in front of him.. Perhaps if he were impaled on one of those and screaming that would be more dramatic.

gmask
11-21-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Mark.Snoswell
The face is to passive. Go to www.FaceGen.com and download the free demo version of FaceGen. It includes facial poses for all the emotions -- so you can play around and make a face simillar to yours and then just turn up the expression you're after. Study it and see just what changes happen in the face. You can also exagerate the facial expression.

I took a look at the websit eand they offer three products
Phototfit, Modellor and Customizer. Based on the the information given I didn't see much of anything demostrating a wide range or really any range of facial expressions. Did I miss something?

js-rolhion
11-21-2003, 10:00 PM
Thanks for you advices. First i just wanted to represent orcs, like they were in the beginning of the middle Earth. In the Silmarillon, Melkor created them from the elves he captured, and their transformation have been long during tortures. This creature was for me a starting mutation of an elf, during the futur evolution to the orc.

But you're right about the facial and body. I'll think about giving more serious dramatic expression in these part.

I had an eye on FaceGen, and Faceshop, and i think it could be a good alternative to have an idea about real facial expression. It can help in modeling this kinda emotions.

Thanks.

Eldron
11-23-2003, 01:43 PM
Actually, I like the expression on his face, he looks tired, like he's to tired to walk on from this point, to tired to feel pain, just leaning on the rock, awaiting and accepting the faith that he wont survive it.

The damage could be looking more fatal and severe though, more blood coming from the wounds.

It is overall a great piece of art!

Djobouk
11-26-2003, 11:48 PM
It seems to me that if you remove the arrows from the picture all idea of death is gone from the scene. And I think itís because the overall body is more the sum of parts than one emotional unit.
Explanation: It seems to me that you havenít really decided which way to go in the way he approaches his death so the pose gets lost among competing emotions.
Hurt and pain in the feet and toes and, at the opposite, peaceful observation (like he could be smoking on a public bench while pondering the meaning of life) in the right hand and facial expression. Also the position of the legs donít really convey much emotionalyÖ(to me anyway;)

For the overall body posture he seems too firmly, vertically seated to suggest death or suffering. Perhaps a more slouched or more tortuous posture would convey pain or death a little more efficiently if this is what you go forÖ.I guess this is the problem I have with the picture: I canít really understand what emotion you want to go for.

The overall texture and feel of the pic are pretty cool.
Voila, I hope I am not too much of a pain.

Regards

Joel

dfacto
12-01-2003, 06:05 PM
I really can't see why nobody has posted this before, but his butt is totally unaffected by the fact that he is resting all of his mass on it. His gluts are firm and look great in theory, but there is actual compression that occurs when you sit on them and this is not shown in the picture. Because of that the picture looks stiff and unnatural. I would change that to make him look like he is actually sitting down on his butt, which would make him integrate better with the picture.

He is also too firm overall. If he were really dying he would be slouching more or leaning back against the rocks. His right hand would be drooping instead of held horizontally like that, and his toes wouldn't be so tensed. Because of that his legs would not be holding themselves so firmly and they would be splayed and stretched out at least a little bit more. I also think that his face should be bowed down and partially obscured by his left arm. I would also make it deep in shadow. I don't know why but that really does something for me, and it makes it look more like he is despairing at the inevitability of his death instead of just thinking about what color rug he should buy from the home depot (for example). I also have an issue with the arrows. They shouldn't be sticking out of him at exactly the same angle. This make it look far too geometric and ordered, and when one hears those words, emotion is not what comes to mind. I would make one of the arrows at a different angle, and skewed away from the viewer or something like that.

The last thing is that there should be tons of blood coming out of his neck wound. If you look at a medical anatomy book, there are many prominent blood vessels running through that whole area of the torso and this would mean that there would be much more blood coming out of a wound in this are.

I like the picture as a technical piece, but it doesn't evoke much emotion as is.

phantom_head
12-01-2003, 09:25 PM
i agree with dfacto - he seems to be floating in the air, rather than sitting...and the upturned toes suggest tension, which is not really reflected in the face or the rest of his posture.

the upper arrow isn't really in his neck, is it? it looks like it's going in his trapezius...(but good move on raising his left hand - that would retard the blood flow in case the arrow really is in the area of the clavicle) the lower arrow has me a little worried though, seeing how it's punctured his lung...

the gray scheme works, the texture is great, but the emotion isn't there yet.

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