What do you think of this System?

[UrbanFuturistic]

Well I'd definitely go for the Pioneer DVD drive... but then the firmware's been rewritten on mine so it's proper multiregion (including RCE :applause: ). Sorry fella, only in the UK.

I'll tell you this for free, the AMD 760 Northbridge (which is on most, if not every, Socket A Mobo) has been known to cause problems with AGP lockups (especially under GNU/Linux, oh yes, especially under GNU/Linux) but this can be worked around.

I'm not saying don't get AMD, entirely the opposite actually, just thought this might explain a coupla things.
regards, Paulhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/odubtaig/smilies/coffee.gif

[3DMadness]

But A7V333 doesn't use AMD northbridge... it's a VIA solution!
I would say go with ASUS A7V333, great board, just don't forget to pick the one with Firewire, there's one without firewire. www.newegg.com have one for a good price! ;)
All yout setup seems to be ok but some people woudl say to get a Plextor CD-RW, it's the best out there!
I rather use Mushkin or Crucial ram, but Corsair and Kingston are also good brands.
Also don't forget to get good heatsinks and fans, I strongly recommend Thermalright AX-7 for the heatsink with a Panflo or Enermax 80mm adjustable rpm fans, they are really quiet and work great!
Now just wait for the t-bread show up on the stores or get a palomino now, there's not much difference but less heat and lower voltage.
Cheers!

3D Madness

[UrbanFuturistic]

Originally posted by 3DMadness
But A7V333 doesn't use AMD northbridge... it's a VIA solution!

Good Lord! Those chips are the other one percent no-one should touch!
regards, Paulhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/odubtaig/smilies/coffee.gif

[minus]

I like Via Chipsets.. :)

Anyway... on another note... Thoroughbred XP 1800 CPU verses a Palomino Core there is little difference. Infact... if it's an 1800XP your going for I would rather have the Palomino. Since they went to the smaller micron manufacturing.. it's true they take a little less power.. but they have less surface area to distribute heat.... in the end... they give off even a little more heat than the palomino chips... err at least you need to be a little more cautious when cooling em. AMD released a whole new guideline for proper cooling of CPU's with the Thoroughbread XP's.

[DocBledsoe]

Madness.

As an owner of a Asus A7V33 and a hardcore asus fanatic, I would suggest the MSI for the reasons beyond the buyer's control.

Asus went jumper crazy, like always. The default memory voltage of jthe A7V333 is out of spec which causes DDR DIMMs to run hot and eventually fail. The voltage can be adjusted by moving the undocumented jumpers JP1 and JP2 to close 1-2 or else remove both jumpers completely. (which is what I did).

I found that running the memory bus asynchronous at 166 MHz with the FSB does not overall increase system performance because of the higher latencies and the buffers required for synchronization of memory and FSB. Many of the boards exhibit some problems when DIMM Slots 1 and 2 are populated simultaneously. Moving the DIMMs to slots 1 and 3 usually solves these issues.

In short, there are memory problems.

The HDD idea is true. Though I would suggest a 20gb or less main drive. It is cheaper, and you probably won't install 20gb of programs and OS.

The money you save here can be put towards the WD120 with the 8mb buffer. It is SCSI fast.:drool: Speaking of which, you could just get a scsi 15000rpm HDD and a SCSI controller (adaptec UW2940) and have amazing performance.

What is this message boards infatuation with the 750? You can buy the 900 on ebay for under $800.00US

Im partial to Mushkin memory b/c of their service, but a buddy of mine has the CL2.0 Corsair PC2700 and he is killing me in PCMArk2002.

I have no comments on the processor b/c I have no experience though I am afraid it will be like the difference in the Williamette and Northwood cores of the Intel chips.

Get a Plextor Drive. Plextor = No Coasters! If it is the software you are concerned about I think you can get it on Kazaa.com. I don't know anything about such personally, but it is what I have heard.:buttrock:

[UrbanFuturistic]

Another reassuring note towards my own recent purchases :D Got a Plexwriter here, comes with Nero 5.5
regards, Paulhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/odubtaig/smilies/coffee.gif

[MadMax]

AMD Northbridge chips are the absolutely MOST stable option you can get.

VIA is the worst. Look at the threads in any Hardware forum and the complaints about VIA outnumber AMD by about 100 to 1.

MSI has incredibly poor QC. LAster year their MSI K7 Master motherboard was a complete disaster. Numerous people returned multiple boards DOA. I returned 3 myself.

MSI is currently having troubles with their K7D Master and their nForce boards.

Buy what you want, but I wouldn't touch an MSI if it was given to me free.

Heat on the new Thoroughbred processors isn't THAT bad, just buy a good Copper heatsink. Plenty out there. Try www.amdzone.com for decent references.

20gb. is a good size for main. I agree on this. I have an 18.2 and I only have 6gb. installed on it.

Asus probably wouldn't be my first choice though. They tend to cost more than comparable boards. Hell I still build workstations based on the Epox 8K7A+ board. Rock solid stable, never a problem.

[VonDrake]

:eek: Okay now you guys are confusing me (but I might add helping me incredibly at the same time. To wit:

I'm torn between two mothers - either the ASUS A7V333 or the SOYO SY-KT333 Dragon Ultra Platinum board.

The confusion is some of you guys seem to be saying that VIA bridges are the worst thing since Maggie Thatcher's twat, some say they're fine. Both of these boards incorporate VIA (in fact most do it seems), and I'm most concerned about stability and performance-I have no intention of overclocking this puppy!

All this talk of bridges and burning heat makes my brain hurt, but I want to hear it just the same. Why with all these problems you guys still recommend AMD? It's enough to turn me to Intel - HELP!!

One last question - Anybody know how the sound is on these boards? Am I going to be sorry I didn't get a separate sound card?

[MadMax]

Okay, let me try to explain this and make it clearer.......

You have 2 chips to be concerned with here, the Northbridge and the Southbridge chip.

AMD Northbridge=good

VIA northbridge=crap

AMD Southbridge=Good

VIA Southbridge=Mediocre

Now on to the boards themselves. There were no readily available boards with both AMD Northbridge and Southbridge, just hybrids.
Those had the AMD Northbridge combined wth a VIA soutbridge.

Not perfect, but at least they were stable. And they did not have a lot of the problems that all VIA based boards have, like the PCI latency problem.

Then there are boards with VIA north and southbridges. Those are problematic at best. Poor stability, frequently required patch after patch to keep them running stable, incompatibilities with certain hardware etc.

For most people, especially professional users these are considered extreme low end boards.

Personally I would not purchase for myself either the Asus board you mentioned, or the Soyo just based on the fact that they are both complete VIA based solutions.


Considering it is less that 6 months until AMD ships a 64 bit solution, I would go on the cheap. The Epox 8K7A can be had for like 39.00 and is a rock solid board. I use it for Lightwave and Maya, Video editing and DVD/SVCD production. The 1900+ is only about 114.00 and dropping now.

Onboard Audio sucks. Only good onboard audio is on the nForce chipset boards. So yeah, you'll regret not having a good sound card.

[VonDrake]

A cry out to MadMax, or anyone else who can help me. That last post was fascinating and frightening-Here's why:

I can't build my own rig, and I'm set on having it customized at Envision Computers ( www.envisioncs.net ) SO...

My choice of motherboards is somewhat limited. If I go AMD it's pretty much ASUS, ABIT, Gigabyte and SOYO. All have Via bridges.

If I choose Intel, then the motherboard choices are pretty much the same, plus Intel. These don't have VIA bridges,so in your opinion MM (or anybody else....please!):hmm: IS PENTIUM THE WAY TO GO BECAUSE THE MOBOS ARE MORE STABLE?? Or do they have their own set of problems?

Please HELP!!

Cheers:surprised

[MadMax]

First off, NO WAY. Intel is most definitely NOT the way to go.

You just happened to pick a vendor that seems to primarily use VIA boards. I note they are pretty pricey at that. I looked at their site.

Why this particular vendor?

Did you look at Boxx for example? Not a single VIA board in their product line.

Also, what software do you intend to use? Lightwave?

Even though the new Tbreds look tempting, you might want to try to build on the cheap with an AMD chipset board such as the folowing:

Epox 8K7A+

Asus A7M266

Gigabyte GA-7DXR+

All are rock solid and reliable.

A 1394 card is as cheap as 20.00.

FYI, I noticed your builder had the A7M266 for 115.00 but the street on that board is around 50.00 these days.

I suspect you could find a vendor that would build for you without limiting your choices.

[VonDrake]

Thanks for getting back to me-I intend to do character animation in Maya on this rig.

Oh, and I found this company through www.resellerratings.com-they seem great, and super nice on the phone!

[UrbanFuturistic]

IS PENTIUM THE WAY TO GO BECAUSE THE MOBOS ARE MORE STABLE?? Or do they have their own set of problems?They smell of Fish Glue... no... that's a lie :insane:

Like Madmax said: go to another supplier, one that isn't out to fleece you and one that actually gives you choice. There are plenty out there, shop around.
regards, Paulhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/odubtaig/smilies/coffee.gif

[MadMax]

Originally posted by VonDrake
Thanks for getting back to me-I intend to do character animation in Maya on this rig.

Oh, and I found this company through www.resellerratings.com-they seem great, and super nice on the phone!


then you definitely want AMD if you are using Maya.

the Newest AMD Processor the XP 2200+ using Maya, the AMD was a dead tie with the Intel 2.53ghz. CPU.

[ZrO-1]

If you're concerned about building your own rig you could go to www.gamepc.com they let you pick and choose every single part for your pc as if you would build it, but they will do the assembly and testing for you. They will even waranty a system that you picked all the parts for. They are a little more expensive than some places. But their service and support more than make up for it. I strongly recomend them.

[Tellerve]

I think you should go with the ECS k7s5a. It is a great board, no real overclocking though, but you said you didn't want it. It performs well and has onboard sound (not great but it can be disabled) and onboard LAN. All this for $54 bucks from Newegg.com. I have built several computers for friends with this motherboard and it is really a great deal. An especially great deal if you want to get something but don't want to break the bank.

Tellerve

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Tellerve
I think you should go with the ECS k7s5a. It is a great board, no real overclocking though, but you said you didn't want it.



No way.

that board is low end crap for extreme budget users. Want proof? check out the forums at www.amdzone.com TONS of problems.

This thing isn't even worth using as a linux box.

[Tellerve]

huh, ok, I haven't had any of those problems nor any of the people I know that have them. Must be some bad boards as most places I read it was a great, granted budget, motherboard. If you don't want "crap" then I'd go with something like Tyan or Supermicro and get away from AMD, VIA and middle of the road motherboard makers.

I personnally use a Gigabyte 7dpxdw board and it is doing well for me, but its a duallie and you might not want to go into that.

Tellerve

[VonDrake]

Oh man you guys are all so helpful - Thanks millions!

I've spent over ten years traditionally animating for Disney, Warner's and various commercial houses. I've learned Softimage 3D, loved it, loved the whole idea of CG, heard nothing but great things about Maya, so now I'm getting a rig to learn and run that and possibly 3D Max (in case I end up in Europe).

Anyway the point is I may be obsessing a bit, but I want a stable and great performing professional box (single cpu) that's not going to give me too much trouble and will let me do my thing. That's probably too much to ask, but thanks to all your advice, as well as from other friends, I hope to get close to that goal. Plus I want to put in an order early next week.

I'm going to check out some other vendors, and post an update soon.

Keep the advice and suggestions flowing (recommended vendors anybody?) - This is a great help!

Cheers! :beer:

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Tellerve
huh, ok, I haven't had any of those problems nor any of the people I know that have them. Must be some bad boards as most places I read it was a great, granted budget, motherboard.



They have had some pretty serious QC problems.

A lot of the complaints at AMDZONE were boards that up and died for no reason. I bought one to use as a cheap linux box, and like numerous other posts there, one morning it just died.

No warning, no advance indication of trouble, just dead.

I have seen this complaint way to many times on various forums. And while a lot of people are having good luck with them, they seem to be a little too risky for use as a graphics box.

[Asorson]

"I can't build my own rig, and I'm set on having it customized at Envision Computers ( www.envisioncs.net ) SO..."


Why can't you build your own rig? Building computers is one of the easiest things I have ever done and just about anyone can do it. Basically what it comes down to is plugging stuff in to other stuff that it will only plug into. Your not going to accidentally plug your video card into a RAM slot, it won't fit ;)

You can save yourself lots of cash by buying the hardware you want, a copy of "Building a PC for dummies" (This is a real book), and putting it together yourself. It takes a couple of hours at most.

[VonDrake]

Okay, I think beginning to understand all this talk about mobo bridges. Now I need some advice:

I still like the idea of having this rig built at Envision ( www.envisioncs.net ) As far as the selection of boards go, my choices seem to be -

* ASUS A7M266 (amd 761 northbridge, VIA south)

* ASUS A7N266E (nFORCE bridges)

* Microstar K7N420 PRO (nFORCE bridges)


All three of these boards don't have features such as USB 2.0, Firewire, or DDR333 support, so I have two questions for you (on anyone else out there:

1- Would you choose any of these boards, given my needs?

2- WOULD IT BE SO HORRIBLE IF I CHOSE THE ASUS A7V333 OR THE SOYO SY-KT333 DRAGON ULTRA PLATINUM??? (as far as the VIA problems you've addressed - check out the opinion at www.riva3d.com/a333/performance.html They seem to suggest the VIA problems have been solved.)


Please don't say do whatever I want - I value your opinion. I really do want a stable professional performer that will run fine for 8-12 hours at a time.

Cheers!
:beer:

[MadMax]

1. do you really want integrated video? If not go with the A7N266-C they have it listed, and it is a newer chipset than the ones you mentioned (nForce).

From my observations, nForce is as solid a performer as you can get. It doesn't suffer some of VBIA's problems like the PCI latency bug.

2. I personally would NEVER consider a VIA based board, for any reason what so ever in a graphics system. The are not reliable enough. Too many issues and if you have a problem of any kind, who is going to help you? Hands on that is.

There is virtually no USB 2.0 devices available so who cares? if you need it later you can add it cheaply enough. Also Firewire cards are dirt cheap. 22.00 or so.


Now the bad side to this, nForce boards are not really geared to overclocking. They are designed with rock solid stability in mind, and they excel at it. Only real downside to these boards.

Now if you want a tweak monster, the Asus A7M266 is a pretty decent board. Lots of overclockers went for this board when it came out.

In my opinion, though, yes, VIA is that bad. It's a board for people who like high maintenance systems. Buy these if you like spending a lot of time inside the case tinkering around. From your posts, this doesn't sound like your cup of tea.

[VonDrake]

That ASUS A7N266-C looks fine, I'm getting real excited about customizing a stable performance box thanks to your advice :bounce:

What about the ASUS A7S333 with Sis 745 bridges, firewire and option for333 DDR SDRAM? (then again I've heard why bother with 333 when you have a 266 FSB)

Still I'm a little disappointed...now I'll never know the pleasures of having a mobo that speaks to me-In my own voice yet! (the ASUS A7V333) Then again-what's it going to say to me?
"Warning-Your AMD cpu is burning-grab a fire extinquisher!" My friends who are Pentium-heads are convinced this will happen.

Cheers:beer:

P.S. Because the ASUS A7N266-C is nFORCE, isn't the sound supposed to be pretty good? Maybe I can ditch the idea of a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card for now? Anybody?

[Tellerve]

nForce motherboards have a much better sound card than most motherboards that have the ac97 codec. Some have a 5.1 c-media chip and that isn't so bad at all actually. Although I would probably still get a Turtle beach santa cruz.

Maybe I missed it, but Madmax just mentioned overclocking so are you at all thinking abou that? And secondly are you against intel? Have your "pentium friends" pushed you to AMD? I only ask because the 1.6a northwood p4 is by all accounts I've seen, Madmax?, an amazing processor. You can get a nice intel chipset board and get far far away from VIA and then do a simple fsb overclock and get 2.1ghz outta the processor. Many people I've read about have gotten ~2.4ghz, oftentimes with default voltage and default retail heatsink and fan. Hopefully I'm just giving an extra suggestion and not complicating your decision too badly. This would/could be a very stable system even after that overclock, that's the only reason I mention it as I know you want a stable system.

Madmax, anything you have to say about the p4?

Tellerve

[VonDrake]

I have no interest in overclocking-I want a stable, single cpu, stable great performing professional system that will run fine for 8-12 hours at a time and be relatively stable.

I have nothing against Pentium, when I first began researching components the newest AMD mobo's sounded great, so I chose them (it's still not too late). No one on this or other boards I've posted have ever stuck up for Intel, yet all my friends use them.

I'll be happy to choose a Pentium, indeed the cpu's seem great now. But I'm running out of time.

WHY HAS NO ONE SUGGESTED CHOOSING PENTIUM??? The price is no big deal.

HELP!!!!!!!!

:surprised

[MadMax]

Originally posted by VonDrake
(ASUS A7V333) Then again-what's it going to say to me?
"Warning-Your AMD cpu is burning-grab a fire extinquisher!" My friends who are Pentium-heads are convinced this will happen.

P.S. Because the ASUS A7N266-C is nFORCE, isn't the sound supposed to be pretty good? Maybe I can ditch the idea of a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card for now? Anybody?


tell them to get a life. The Athlon is not much hotter than a P4 at all.
In fact, have you seen the gigantic heatsinks and mounts a P4 board has?

The recommended cooling device for a P4 is made by Kenmore. If it was any larger you could use it as an A/C in your house.

A reasonable copper heatsink is less than 40.00 and provides perfect cooling. Mine average around 42 degrees or less.

As for sound, they are equal to any sound cards I have seen.

[MadMax]

Okay, I am going to answer 2 at once here......

regarding the P4.

One the processor is not as efficient as the AMD is. IF you look at non biased benchmarks, for Intel to gain an advantage in speed, you have to compare the 2.2ghz stock to an AMD 2100+ stock.

At that, differences between the 2 chips are minor at best, even though the Intel in this comparison has 512k cache (AMD has 256k), and a 500mhz. lead. And prior to the newest AMD's, Intel was .13 process die while AMD was a .18 process die.

With all those seeming advantages, the Intel should smoke the AMD in every possible variation of tests. But it doesn't. Not even close.

In Maya, the current 2200+ AMD is as fast as the Intel at 2.53ghz. pretty bad when you consider that the Intel chip in question has a 700mhz. lead over the AMD chip and it still can't beat it.

There is no way at this time I would ever recommend an Intel setup.

[UrbanFuturistic]

Essentially, the AMD chips have better memory transfer hardware.

The P4 chip may be faster in theory (especially when the Intel code compilers come into play) but for current soft, the AMD hardware has a better memory to chip.... route and is better at the basic number crunching.
regards, Paulhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/odubtaig/smilies/coffee.gif

[Tellerve]

Considering he's said no to overclocking then yeah AMD all the way. I'm not a intel fan by any means, but I think the 1.6a norhtwood overclocked is a good deal. But I digress as I think along with everyone he should get a nice Athlon XP. I'll also second Madmax's thoughts on VIA. Mine aren't quite as vehement but are pretty strong for the fact you'll have to mess with stuff. I had an Abit kt7a and it was a horror to get it working with my SB Live 5.1 card. I've also become a not so big fan of Creative for that and other reasons (read Get the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz).

I think you should go with that Asus nForce motherboard as it'll have no (ok shouldn't) problems setting it up and get some nice quality ram, and get a smokin' XP processor on there. And for heat, you shouldn't worry really at all with a good case and even the retail hsf if your not overclocking. I have two 1.53ghz XP chips right next to each other and I'm doing fine with heat. Did fine with the retail heatsinks although I did end up getting the Thermalright AX-7s so I could put an 80mm fan instead of the retail's 60mm (a bit quieter which is nice).

Tellerve

[VonDrake]

Okay - Here's an Update!

I can't thank you guys enough you've been incredibly helpful! (and especially thanks for your patience MADMAX!!). I think we've run this subject into the ground- I have no more major questions, so as a last gasp (I want to order this rig in a day or two) I'll begin one last post "Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace!". Any last comments should be addressed there.

I think this box is going to be a great performer for character animation - Thanks again ALL!!!:love:

Cheers!

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.