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javierdl
11-17-2003, 05:53 PM
Does anyone know which of the two (quads or triangles) one is supposed to use when modeling for HL & HL2?
Any additional information on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

DPC

javierdl
11-17-2003, 06:02 PM
Just in case, HL stands for Half-Life (FPS).

DPC

robin
11-17-2003, 07:07 PM
DrPepperCan

to my knowledge, Half life 2 uses Triangles, around 5000 for each model.

If i got the time, i'll post a link with relevant information on this.


-R

robin
11-17-2003, 07:37 PM
Here you go.


" We target between 3000 polygons (i.e.: headcrabs) and 7500 polygons (i.e. Alyx, the Gman) for characters and monsters, depending on function and how many we hope to have on-screen simultaneously, and we have several stages of LOD (level of detail) models with drastically reduced polygon counts for when things get smaller in screen space (further away). We're targeting around 2000 polygons for our viewmodels, which of course do not LOD. ""




http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?faq=source_mod_faq



-R

javierdl
11-17-2003, 10:59 PM
Thanks so much for the URL Robin :)
This is quite possibly the best HL editing source I've seen yet.

Cheers,

DPC

javierdl
11-17-2003, 11:22 PM
I must say... I thought it was a bit too bad that I was just reading from The Subdivision Modeling Resource Page (http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/subdivmodeling.htm) an advise that says to avoid using triangles, 'cause you're more likely not to end up with a nice and smooth surface. Quads are preferable. And now that I was just getting used to the idea of modeling using quads ...
excerpt from the HL2 Source Mod / FAQ:
"How many vertices can I have per polygon, on a model?

The engine deals with triangles (which means 3 vertices per polygon) but our exporters from XSI divide all polygons with greater than 3 vertices into triangles.
I suppose that is a custom made exporter :rolleyes:
It would be nice to have one "stand-alone" engine like that for us mod makers ;)

DPC

robin
11-18-2003, 06:13 AM
Game engines like HL, HL2, Q2, Q3, Deus ex all use triangles ...

They avoid at all cost rounded surfaces like car wheels and rounded characters heads. Its not a new concept.

Do a search on Paul Steed (in your browser) the guy behind the Q3 charaters you'll see what i mean.

-R

actarusprocyon
11-18-2003, 02:04 PM
-Does anyone know which of the two (quads or triangles) one is supposed to use when modeling for HL & HL2?

Definetely Quads.



-Any additional information on this issue would be greatly appreciated

Triangulate before exporting to the engine.

robin
11-18-2003, 04:19 PM
They model in Quads but convert them in Triangles for the game.

Some people model in Tris.

flingster
11-18-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by DrPepperCan
I must say... I thought it was a bit too bad that I was just reading from The Subdivision Modeling Resource Page (http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/subdivmodeling.htm) an advise that says to avoid using triangles, 'cause you're more likely not to end up with a nice and smooth surface. Quads are preferable. And now that I was just getting used to the idea of modeling using quads ...
excerpt from the HL2 Source Mod / FAQ:
"How many vertices can I have per polygon, on a model?

The engine deals with triangles (which means 3 vertices per polygon) but our exporters from XSI divide all polygons with greater than 3 vertices into triangles.
I suppose that is a custom made exporter :rolleyes:
It would be nice to have one "stand-alone" engine like that for us mod makers ;)

DPC

they advise avoiding tris cos they are not intended to be used in game engines..they generally drop a lower poly mesh into a subd or nurb cage...if you have tris with this process, tris can leave artifacts in the look of the character..especially if animating. hope this helps a little...
in you case use tris...or make low level quad and then convert...up to you i guess...

SpeccySteve
11-18-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by robin
Do a search on Paul Steed (in your browser) the guy behind the Q3 charaters you'll see what i mean.

-R

An interesting ( well, I thought so ) collection of old articles by Paul Steed can be found at..
http://www.loonygames.com/content/1.1/totb/

javierdl
11-18-2003, 11:21 PM
I'm so amazed at the great response I've got on this issue :)
Thanks a bunch evereyone :)

DPC

Mr. Ferguson
11-19-2003, 01:57 AM
Quads are very rarely used in game engines as far as I know.

javierdl
11-19-2003, 03:15 AM
Actually....
Since Paul Steed was mentioned above, I found this model made by him and Darren Pattenden: dk2_reaper.zip , found here:
http://www.fileplanet.com/files/30000/34667.shtml

DPC

Gwot
11-19-2003, 04:56 AM
Nobody that I know uses quads in their game engines. If they do please send me a link to their site so I can wave it in front of our programmers faces and beg them to do the same. :D

Model in quads or ngons if you prefer that (I do a general combination of both) then convert to tris when the mesh is ready for rigging and UV mapping. I usually set a quad based version aside at some point, depending on whether or not I'm going to need a high rez version. That way I can subdivide smoothly for detail if I need to.

It really depends on what you need for the character - cinematics? higher detail LOD's for close up in game shots, etc. But no matter what the final model that goes in game will use tris.

actarusprocyon
11-19-2003, 12:10 PM
-Nobody that I know uses quads in their game engines. If they do please send me a link to their site so I can wave it in front of our programmers faces and beg them to do the same

Did anyone say that?

I must be missing something there.

actarusprocyon
11-19-2003, 12:23 PM
I know Ogl or Dx does not support the rendering of quads,it is nothing new.

I personally think that modeling directly in tris from the start is both slow and keeps you from using precious,time-saving edge and poly tools,so unless you're stuck with using Milkshape3D,it is a smarter choice to use quads at creation time.Not to mention how easier it is to visualize your edgeloops and your UV's with hidden edges.


That said,when modeling low polygon meshes,judiciously placed tris are invaluably useful for keeping everything at the lowest possible count.

Depends on you and the exigencies concerning the mesh.

bigbad
11-19-2003, 12:32 PM
The reason why games use tris is because its always perfect flat. Tris are always flat. Quads are not.

Thats all I know. :shrug:

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