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View Full Version : HMC #33 - Tank!


WyattHarris
01-24-2012, 01:04 AM
I'll attempt all of Bebop in some form or another. I was trying to find some good poses from the opening but it's really stylized. Maybe I'll just go with the below image.

We'll see, these things tend to scale back towards the end. :D

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/tank.jpg

TheRazorsEdge
01-24-2012, 10:01 AM
Sweet choice, Wyatt! Looking forward to your progress.

Cheers!

Airflow
01-24-2012, 10:38 AM
Cool, I too wait to see what you come up with.

WyattHarris
01-25-2012, 02:30 AM
Felix, Robert - Thanks guys, should be fun. Good luck to you too.

Talk about timing. Just got ZBrush4r2B installed. Realtime anime hair! :D

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/hairtest.jpg

Cultrix
01-25-2012, 10:15 AM
Good luck man =P You got alot of work to do!

TiMrozek
01-25-2012, 03:45 PM
Yes! Started playing fibermesh last night too. Kamaji's mustache will now be possible for the same reason that your sphere has an awesome head of hair!

WyattHarris
01-27-2012, 07:09 AM
Kamaji's mustache will now be possible
Sounds like a perfect use for it too.

Some refs I'm using.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spiker1.jpg

The first 2 I'm using to block out the shape and the final pose will be some form of all 3.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spiker2.jpg

Spent most of the night tweaking the length of his legs and arms, odd proportions.
So far the fibermesh is producing very frizzy results. Tried experimenting with getting it to clump better. The clump brush doesn't exactly fix it.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike1.jpg

Airflow
01-27-2012, 10:43 AM
I persevere, but it may be easier to deform a mesh with the snake hook brush for this. nice start.

WyattHarris
01-27-2012, 04:59 PM
I persevere, but it may be easier to deform a mesh with the snake hook brush for this. nice start.
Yeah, that's the fall back position.

WyattHarris
01-27-2012, 10:04 PM
Messed around with fibermesh while at work today. It dawned on me that I should try the regular brushes and not just the Groom brushes. What do you know, way more control. The Groom brushes seem really specific to a situation but then I may be doing it wrong.

The results are much better using BPR. You don't get any smoothness on the fiber until you switch it on. Unfortunately, I set the root width very wide but I didn't get those wide fibers while editing, only after BPR render. That will take some getting used to.

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/hairtest2.jpg

Airflow
01-31-2012, 07:02 PM
Looks nice, but you would need proper clumping for his hair, prolly better to do it in a 3d package.

WyattHarris
02-01-2012, 08:16 PM
Airflow - Yeah, I think you may be right.

Finally had some time to work on him. Spike has got a weird physique.
Still blocking in forms and a basic start on the face. I wish Dynamesh held details a little better but other than that I love this feature.

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike2.jpg

Airflow
02-01-2012, 08:59 PM
Its getting there. I think you need to maybe try to get the major forms down first for his face.
I think it is already detailed right now. I would just work on getting it to resemble a 45 degree ref image, and use over layed ref if you have to.

WyattHarris
02-03-2012, 10:17 PM
Dynamesh of Spike's head.

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike3.jpg

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spikec.jpg

Cultrix
02-03-2012, 11:32 PM
Hey man!

Saw you post minuts ago, and did this for you =)



The nose, in the green ball,goes more inside! The point of the nose is more up! The cheeks are more rounded, so is the chin! The eyes are more straight lines then rounded lines. The ears are more salient

When you smooth in zbrush, which means, when you click shift, continue smoothing but realease the shift key. Doing this, will remove those small bumps caused by the 5+6 pointed vertexs! =P



http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk222/Cultrix/SpikeFace.jpg


good luck with your sculpting =D

Scote
02-03-2012, 11:41 PM
Maybe move back the eyes

Cultrix
02-03-2012, 11:45 PM
Thx Scote, didnt notice that =P Yep, back the eyes!

MGC
02-04-2012, 08:30 AM
I really like how new Zbrush make the hair..cool result for you

WyattHarris
02-07-2012, 05:26 PM
Is the new version of ZBrush really crashy for anyone else? I keep having problems when I go to save and I get these really cryptic errors then the program dies. Really slowing me down, I've redone the head 3 times now.

Airflow
02-07-2012, 06:27 PM
I say roll back to r2 if it helps.

WyattHarris
02-07-2012, 11:38 PM
Yeah, I may have to but no crashes today. Still, I was saving constantly just in case.

Some of those previous problems were from a final remesh that smoothed everything out. The rest was me trying different things. I had made the nose wider to give it a bit more realism but then made the eyes too wide to get it more cartoony. In the end it just didn't look like Spike.

Anyway, head is done for now. I'll revisit it after I make some more progress.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike4.jpg

Scote
02-08-2012, 02:21 AM
Personally, I think the cheekbone is way too big, like he eat something and hold it

http://www.1930.co/ref/spike4correct.jpg

WyattHarris
02-13-2012, 04:04 AM
Man, long time to get to this point. After staring at that last update, it looked okay but it just didn't look "right" and I couldn't put my finger on what it was. I had a friend give me some solid critique. He basically said I was stuck between trying to do a cartoon and a semi-realistic character.

So I scrapped the previous attempt and started over on the head. This time I kept it more simplified. I started blocking out just very simple shapes to get the overall form.

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike5.jpg

Finished the initial sculpt while keeping everything very simplified. Still needed to correct some anatomy problems.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike6.jpg

Combined the meshes, made the hands and extracted his coat. This is about as far as I wanted to take it before posing. Most everything from here will be wrinkles and accessories.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike7.jpg

And here is the result after Transpose Master. Lots of things to fix before continuing but I'll start on that tomorrow.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike8.jpg

So here's the full idea for the scene. This will be on the flight deck.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/bebop1.jpg
Spike will be relaxed in a chair smoking. Jet and Ein will be playing Shogi. Faye will be stomping a pile of losing track tickets. Ed will be doing something on her PC on the floor. Not sure if I want her with the noodle arms or maybe flipped over punching the keys with her toes. I've got the Shogi board finished.

Anyway, that's all great ideas. Let me see if I can finish Spike first.

Scote
02-13-2012, 06:37 AM
I think you did well in restarting the mesh. That's a better model

Airflow
02-14-2012, 10:46 PM
Agreed, much better, don't forget to sort out the neck/chin area. Looks a bit big in profile. Good going mate.

WyattHarris
02-27-2012, 04:49 PM
Man what a week. I started experimenting with different software, testing out retopology features. I started with 3DCoat's trial which looked pretty good. The topology tools are very handy and once I found some good tutorials I managed to retopologize the head in no time. The problem was the Applink. It had no problem bringing the model from ZB to 3DC. However, after going through the whole process and learning the package, the Applink wouldn't bring it back to ZBrush. After searching through pages and pages of tutorials the bottom line seems to be that it doesn't work well in ZB4 r2b.

After that I started checking out Topogun. It has no free trail that I could find so I passed for now.

In the end I just went with what I knew and used ZBrush's built in tools. It had been a while since I used them but after a quick refresher I was back in action again. There must have been some improvements made recently because I remember how finicky ZBs retopo tools used to be. Much more responsive and less prone to screwed up meshes then before. Of course its still very much a manual process. 3DCoat definitely has the better toolset being able to draw guides and then AUTOPO to finish the job. But after a bit finally got it done.

I installed LW11 and set up GoZ. Now I finally get to see what this feature is all about. Setup the UVs, create maps in ZB and then 1 click and it's in Layout. So much better than the manual process needed before. Make changes, after this and that and then GoZ and its back in ZB with the modifications.

Well, everything was looking up and then my PC at home started blue screening. I finally got it fixed last night, multiple issues, but now I'm reinstalling everything and hopefully I can get back to work and finished before the contest ends.

Ugh, good times. :D

CKPinson
02-27-2012, 09:14 PM
Personally I like the Retopo with Draster Nex within Maya- Quad draw is awesome- put dots on your mesh where you want verts then start creating Quads- I'll show you mine- I have the trial of it and am liking it better than yet another app. Have used Topogun but prefer Maya with Nex/ VERY VERY fast.

WyattHarris
02-28-2012, 02:19 PM
I'll show you mine
Absolutely, I'd be glad to check it out. They were hinting at QRemesher on ZBrushCentral, some new 3rd party app, but it's not out yet.

WyattHarris
03-07-2012, 02:02 AM
Getting there.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike9.jpg

Airflow
03-07-2012, 02:26 PM
Love the hair.

WyattHarris
03-07-2012, 06:02 PM
Love the hair.
Thanks, definitely a tricky little mass.

TheRazorsEdge
03-10-2012, 01:23 PM
Nice progress here!

I know its a little bit late in the game, but maybe this helps with the clothes.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=166859

I found this image by pure accident on Ebay.

Cheers!

WyattHarris
03-12-2012, 01:31 AM
Nice progress here!

I know its a little bit late in the game, but maybe this helps with the clothes.
Thanks Felix, that's a bit clearer than most of the reference I have.

So after extracting the original coat I realized the problem of not having the 2 leaves separate for what I was trying to do. So I had this crazy notion to extract it in 2 pieces and combine them later.

After first piece.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike10.jpg

Both pieces done and refined.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike11.jpg

So question for anyone, what would've been a better/another way to accomplish that in ZB not an external program?

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike12.jpg

I think that's all of the pieces done. Time for final details and posing and... everything else.
Phew, that's enough for now, I'm going to take a break and go watch some Dr. Who.

ysalec
03-12-2012, 12:15 PM
So question for anyone, what would've been a better/another way to accomplish that in ZB not an external program?

If you look at my Kaneda WIP, I have a similar situation to yours where the coat wraps around the character and overlaps itself.

The way I typically deal with these is like you did yourself, I extract the mesh twice. This is really the best way, because it allows you to select each 'leaf' of the jacket and sculpt it separately. The downside, as I'm sure you've realized, is that it leaves a seam on the back of the jacket.

So my workflow for finalizing the separate pieces into one is to finish the coat, then combine the subtools to make the complete coat. I then retopo the coat in zbrush and 'project' the retopo onto the old coat.

Here's the one catch with the re-topo. The coat leaves are now covering each-other, so the re-topo has a difficult time with the overlap. To fix this:

1 - Subdivide the retopo to your highest subdiv. Select half the coat and ONE of the leafs. You can do this by using the transpose tools. Alt click and drag the transpo tool towards one of the leafs and it will automask that leaf. Then use the drag mask to mask off the other half of the coat.

2 - Project.

3 - Invert Mask.

4 - Project.

5 - Now you'll have to clean up the seam on the jacket created by the fact that the jacket used to be two seperate subtools, and also because you masked and projected twice.


_______________


An alternate and possibly easier method is to re-break the coat mesh into two pieces, and run the projectall with one piece hidden, and then the other. Unless you have done something to the coat after combining the subtools (topology wise), you can break the coat back into two pieces by splitting the polygroups.

Thats it. It's actually easier done than said, so I hope it helps.

WyattHarris
03-12-2012, 06:54 PM
So my workflow for finalizing the separate pieces into one is to finish the coat,

Thats it. It's actually easier done than said, so I hope it helps.
Woo, that helps a ton. Thanks Yuri.
I'm okay with standard stuff but I still feel a novice when it comes to odd situations in ZB so every bit of guidance helps.

WyattHarris
03-12-2012, 07:56 PM
Bit of detailing during lunch on the shirt and tie.
You can see that nasty seam in the coat.

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike13.jpg

WyattHarris
03-16-2012, 07:13 PM
Crap, need to post something. Yesterday was my sons birthday so between taking him out to dinner and everything that entails I'm just about done. Still some finishing touches.

BTW: I see Roberto still hasn't posted the final thread. I wonder if he is alright. He usually has that thing up a week before the deadline. Anybody hear from him?

TiMrozek
03-16-2012, 07:27 PM
Was thinking about that today too Wyatt. I haven't heard from him. A friend of mine at work said that seemed odd too. My guess is that he's just really busy. Hope all is well with him. Oh, and happy birthday to your son!

WyattHarris
03-18-2012, 01:55 AM
I tossed my original idea as too boring after seeing nsb's awesome Bonsai entry. After some brainstorming I remembered a scene in "Knock a Little Harder".

This is how I remember Bebop, Spike never getting his protein.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spikenoodles.jpg

Almost almost done. Coat is the only thing left. I have no idea how I'm going to render this.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike14.jpg

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike15.jpg

WyattHarris
03-19-2012, 04:35 AM
Thanks Tim for the downloads. I experimented most of the day in LightCap and different Matcaps and restored most of my old MatCaps and brushes from previous versions that have gotten lost in upgrades.

In the end I went with a fairly simple setup because Spikes hair is like a sombrero and it casts huge shadows over his face. I couldn't get a good render all day in ZB so I'll try it later in LW. Really had fun with this challenge and I extended my skillset quite a bit. Good luck everyone!

ARTIST NAME - Wyatt Harris, "No Protein Today Space Cowboy..."

BEAUTY RENDER
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_best_b.jpg

Full Scene
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_best_a.jpg

HIREZ RENDER LINK (VOLUNTARY)
Beauty (http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_best_b.jpg)
Full Scene (http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_best_a.jpg)

ORTHOGRAPHIC RENDERS
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_ortho_a.jpg

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_ortho_b.jpg





WIREFRAMES
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_wire_a.jpg

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_wire_b.jpg

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_wire_c.jpg

EXTRAS
Close up on the goods.:D
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_close_a.jpg

Early stage coloring. I wanted to finish sometime today so I decided to forgo this route.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/hmc/33-moa/spike_color_a.jpg

WIP THREAD
Tank! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=1031334&page=1&pp=20)

COMMENTS & DESCRIPTION
Glad to see you back Roberto.
Everything done in ZBrush and Lightwave. First time using ZB 4r2b (4r3 came out during the challenge) and first time using LW11 which means I finally got to use GoZ. Holy cow I had no idea what I've been missing this whole time. Simple stuff that is so tricky in ZB I can knock out in a flash in LW and click GoZ, back in business again. Love it love it. My next challenge now will be bringing the ZB scene into LW to render. ZB renderer is good but not quite there yet.

Thanks to nsb, I was going to cop-out with a fairly basic scene but after seeing your entry I decided to step it up. Great challange with some really fantastic work on a topic I love.
Good luck everyone.

TheRazorsEdge
03-19-2012, 11:48 AM
Nice finish! :thumbsup:
Maybe you want to put some slightly different mats on the subtools. Imho, right now it looks kinda bland and doesn't really show off your work to the fullest. Maybe add a hint of the coloring from the show to a basic mat by filling each Subtool separately? That might also light up the scene a bit unless you want it that contrasty and dark. The last image with the color looks kinda weird. Just an idea.

Cheers!

RobertoOrtiz
03-19-2012, 04:29 PM
Sorry for the delay....

Please post your final entry:
Masters of Anime: POST YOUR FINAL ENTRY... (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=1041673)

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