Dope Sheet in Cinema??

[Per-Anders]

the default timeline acts in a dope sheet manner. the only thing it doesn't do is overlay the grid on top of the bars and blocks. i've not managed to find any additional functionality in any other apps dopesheet over cinema's "timeline" aside from collapsable tracks (please maxon).

[bobzilla]

YES! Collapse the tracks! That's killing me. By the time I marque around everything I want to move I've forgotten what I was moving!

Thanks...

[flingster]

yup that bugs the hell out of me...an i never animate stuff! so i can imagine how much it bugs all you ca people out there.
:banghead: :argh: :banghead:

[JIII]

hmm what do you mean you don't find the constant scrolling just amazingly fun???

[CosmicBear]

Originally posted by bobzilla
By the time I marque around everything I want to move I've forgotten what I was moving!


i SO agree!!! please give as a chance to collapse!!! :bounce:

[danb]

Could someone enlighten a newbie as to what collapsing means?

[Per-Anders]

all it means is teh ability to fold tracks together into one track that you can then manipulate quickly in the timeline, kinda like grouping objects together in the OM, only you still see all the keyframe positions and the overlayed track length (and you can manipulate these).

even on a simple level like being able to fold and unfold the XYZ channels into a single track that would be a huge benefit to cinema users. but it should also be possible to fold any group of tracks together into 1 for quick and easy layout on the timeline (then you unfold em if you need to quickly change something in there).

[danb]

Oh ok. That would come in very useful. As i am going to start my first attempt at character animation, i'm sure that would be something that is going to frustrate me. Oh well let's hope maxon does this for version 9 or somewhere before then.

[sinai_1]

Is there a dope sheet I haven't found buried in Cinema somewhere? I don't think there is but sometimes Cinema has a different name for something I know by another name

bobzilla, i may be wrong, but you sound like you've been watching Jeff Lew's Dvd...

[bobzilla]

sinai_1: Guilty as charged!

I know what they are and I've seen them explained, but seeing it in use is just amazing. Excellent DVD. I just started the section section.

He does stuff so fast...I wish I could move that quickly in Cinema. Just being on a Mac apparently slows me down, but when you're just starting CA and you get slowed down by stuff beyond your control as well as lack of knowledge it gets frustrating.

Still fun, though...just wish it went a little quicker.

BTW I also just ordered the 3D Apprenticeship DVD from Lost Pencil. That goes through modeling, IVs, texture, rigging, animating...can't wait for that to arrive !

[sinai_1]

bobzilla, i agree with you; great learning tool, i think the "Learning 3D Character Animation" title is too modest;"Secrets Of 3D Character Animation" would have been perfect.

The things that came to mind after seeing the dvd, "can i work like this in Cinema ?can CA in Cinema ever be this fast ? even after optimizing your views/display in Cinema it still falls far short of the way Animation Master runs in terms of CA(may be those who have played with 8.5 have a different story to tell).

[anobrin]

Trying to create and edit character animation without a Dope sheet
is a ridiculous process:cry:
particulary when you want to move multiple channels of keyframe data
forward or backward in the sequence
even poser has a rudimentary dope sheet

http://66.70.166.29/promo/dopesheet.jpg

But with FBX here in Version 8.5 :thumbsup:
most C4D character animators will use motionbuilder
and its powerful Dope sheet anyway
so things are shaping up nicely in the CA area of cinema4DXL

[Per-Anders]

well, as said before, cinema has a dope sheet, it's called the timeline.

what it's missing is folding tracks.

well, what the timeline is actually missing is... *deep breath*

folding tracks

better grouping

powerslider (bring this back please, for those who come to cinema at v8, look at maya's slider).

it needs to be faster when dealing with f-curves and large ammounts of information.

feedback with the mouse cursor

offset time marker on tracks that use a time track (so you can see where things need to be modified).

bring modifiable acceleration tracks back please.

grid overlay option (just for those that want it to look like other apps dopesheet)

vertical layout option.

ability to move end keyframes of sequences beyond the sequence bounds and have the sequence update it's length accordingly

better NLA tools, the V7 motion tracks were better, it would have been ok if you could just fold and unfold em rather than the current MoMix object.

better highlighting.

working ease in/out ("Slow" should work, but doesn't).

custom interpolation should give you the option of controlling the handles info.

if you change the default interpolation then the interpolation settings have to be adhered to through all methods of making a keyframe (currently they're not).

setting a keyframe on an individual parameter shouldn't involve going through two layers of menu. in fact yu shouldn't need to use a rmb menu at all, it should just be a case of highlighting the parameter, then clicking the record button (or anything where you can set a keyboard shortcut for speed). cos right now that's painful.

xyz channels should be automatically folded into a single channel, only unfolding when you want them to.

hidden tracks should not be recordable.

real f-curves (as in they're true functions, non destructive functions that you apply, and can modify later, not functions that actually completely change the keyframes and which are impossible to deal with later... for examples of this look at lightwaves curves).

loop with offset and mirror loop etc as basic loop options, rather than just "soft".

phew, ok, that's all i can remember right now, but feel free to add your own ideas about the current timeline/animation stuff in cinema.

[thorn3d]

Ditto to everything Per said... XL8's timeline is simply awful. Though technically there may be more power than XL7, it's so spread out and ill-designed i can't stand using it.

Probably one of the biggest reasons I still use XL7 instead of 8. (Well, that and the active manager).

thorn

[neods]

totally agree..

[flingster]

mdme_sadie did you submit those suggestions to maxon cos they all sound useful..:shrug:

[thorn3d]

They have all been submitted to Maxon by several people on several occasions.

thorn

[flingster]

thats cool...just often enough people always assume stuff is submitted...just wanted to make sure thats all.:shrug:
discussions take place on forums often coming up with very useful insights into working method and workflow improvements but all to often we never see these implemented in later software releases...i just wanna make sure this won't happen...

[thorn3d]

Well, often it's not a matter of the suggestions not getting to the right people... it's a matter of the right people choosing not to implement them for various reasons.

For example (not trying to start up the literal discussion): n-gons. I (and others) suggested n-gon implementation while XL6 was being written. I know the suggestion was heard, because I was walking down the street talking to Philip Losch when I made it. ;)

Obviously it's good for forum visitors to make suggestions, but i just wanted to point out that many times it's not the first time the suggestion has been made... and just because it's submitted to maxon (or any company) doesn't mean it's put in the development queue.

thorn

[flingster]

ooh yeah you are so right i'm fully aware of what you mention believe me...but if it isn't suggested its even less likely to get implemented...

if you don't buy a ticket to the lottery you ain't gonna win...one of lives certainties i guess.

so you made a suggestion about ngons at time of version 6 to philip losch back in the day and we still wait for it...:bowdown:
can't knock a man for trying...i bet he thinks a little differently about that suggestion now...two versions down the line and the begging for ngons still ringing in his ears.. :thumbsup:

[bobzilla]

Wow! Looks like I opened up a can of worms here...GREAT!

I too, have my $200 worth of Motionbuilder sitting next to me as I'm typing this. Haven't loaded it yet. Still hoping to get what I want out of Cinema. I hate the fact that I have to learn another piece of software to do something that should be possible in Cinema.

These timeline/dope sheet suggestions don't sound that dificult to implement. Again, I'm not a programmer. When Maxon said they sat down with animators and came up with MOCCA, I'm surprised these animators got past the timeline shortcomings.

I'm not nocking Maxon. I love the software, but some of the suggestions and even the plugins (Mesh Surgery, Tweak, Visual Selector, etc.) should really have been a no brainer to include in C4D, IMO.

My 2cents...

[thorn3d]

Originally posted by bobzilla
These timeline/dope sheet suggestions don't sound that dificult to implement. Again, I'm not a programmer. When Maxon said they sat down with animators and came up with MOCCA, I'm surprised these animators got past the timeline shortcomings.


-bites tongue-

thorn

[Claymation]

Hi,

sorry had to revive this thread but seems like 5 months have passed and since I am new to Cinema 4D I wanted to know if any dopesheet plugins/scripts or other thoughts are out there.

I passed the motionbuilder chance by and am now banging my head since it is now out of my range.

That said how is animating in the base install of Cinema4D compared to Mocca?

[darf]

Originally posted by thorn3d
-bites tongue-

thorn

LOL!

Do you not mean 'bleeding'?

darf

[RangTang]

Bobzilla if you have MotionBuilder then use it! Not just for the timeline/dopesheet functions that are implemented. What it does so well is PINNING, a feature that will make you a animation maestro. The FBX file support Maxon developed for MB is well done.

[flingster]

Originally posted by Claymation
Hi,

sorry had to revive this thread but seems like 5 months have passed and since I am new to Cinema 4D I wanted to know if any dopesheet plugins/scripts or other thoughts are out there.

I passed the motionbuilder chance by and am now banging my head since it is now out of my range.

That said how is animating in the base install of Cinema4D compared to Mocca?


not seen any new plugs for this sort of thing?
dunno if you've seen some of these plugs though...which might help a little in some animation areas..
http://www.entagma.org/
http://www.studio-fabian.de/


:shrug:

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