EXPOSÉ 2 - Call for Entries

[bentllama]

good to know. the first one was a great tome.

I will have to throw my work at it this time...

still waiting for a DVD of animation to be announced... ;)

[Supervlieg]

Cool, beter get on with the stuff to send in :)

[Neil]

man, it's hard to keep up with this industry sometimes. Seems like 1 just came out yesterday :blush:

[thx1138]

February 29th !!!! OMG, there goes the holidays. No time for Santa this year.

But even if I don't make it, I'll still have the second book :)

:thumbsup: for the people at BP !!!

[mattregnier]

Actually Neil, you aren't too far off, Leo originally announced that Expose 1 was released on 07-25-2003, so it seems like they are really chuggin these things out. Hopefully they'll only be one a year, instead of what seems like bi-yearly, it'll be easier on the wallet.

[Neison]

Originally posted by mattregnier
Hopefully they'll only be one a year, instead of what seems like bi-yearly, it'll be easier on the wallet.

I second that! LOL!

But, at the same time, it allows more opportunities to submit. Oooh, the choices :scream:

Looking forward to Book 2 though ;)

[Blackarts]

Expose 1 was a fantastic book.

cheers

DM

[blindsleeper]

great, means i have to spend more money :)

[rickycox]

Thanks Leo, big thumbs up! :thumbsup:

[Garma]

Wow that's extremely cool Leo, thanks man for all the effort! I'm in definately.

I still use to put expose 1 open on my desk and :bowdown: every day before I start maya. One day I'll be in expose... well... it's a goal :hmm:

:thumbsup:

[iBlue]

ooo! i'll get started now!! :)

[blindsleeper]

i think the collectors edition was a great idea personnally, but then im kinda a sucker for hardcover quality books... :buttrock:

[JBoskma]

2 is coming allready?! w00t Ride on!:beer:

[Izu]

Can colaboratory artwork be accepted... ?

..i mean for example, if one models and another textures n so on?

[BigSky]

How much would it cost to have a cd with it?..gallery of thumbs/hi-res, which links directly to artist's website (if they have one). Nice way to give back, and also includes 'digital currency'. If you want someone to make this, give me a hoi.;)

And limited editions? Keep 'em coming. I jumped at one, and, if nothing else, it's great to see hand-bound books still being made.

[Omita]

Originally posted by Blackarts
Expose 1 was a fantastic book.

However, I wonder if the artists wil be provided with a free copy this time instead to having to buy a book they are helping to sell?

cheers

DM

In theory the artist is getting paid in “exposure.” Which is priceless if it help land you a job. What artists should make sure is that they copyright their images correctly and pay attention to licensing agreements. That way there can't be any legal issues later. IE, Best of Expose, in 30 years. Or an Expose DVD. Artist should make sure they are selling their work what you want to go is license your work. You should be licensing out your images on a per publication basis. In other words, this image will be used for this book and only this book. You want to protect yourself from the possibility that another company might purchasing the makers of Expose and then re-publish your work in other books or media. If you don’t have a correct licensing they even can legally resell you image to other companies. Then they are making money off of your work. If your licensing isn't clear or it’s open ended then a publisher can use your images for anything.

A true case would be when National Geographic tried to sell a CD box set of all their photography. This broke the licensing agreement with all the photographers. If the licensing had not been there then the artist would have been screwed out of lots of money. So, food for thought is don’t give anything away for free, and if you are going to submit images make sure the license protects the artwork. In photography the rule of thumb is never sell your images, just license them.

Anyway, the point of this blurb is just to make sure you read thought legal issues. Most older artist are familiar with such issues.

-Omita

[sula_nebouxi]

Any ideas to boost sales?

Leo

I just bought a hard cover copy :D

[KolbyJukes]

On the topic of increasing sales:

Sell it in bookstores. I know it's costly to get shelf space, but I know I'd be more then willing to pick one up if I could get it at my local Chapters (a Canadian book retail chain). I know many of my friends feel the same way, we're not so hot on ordering it.

-kol.

[JDaniel]

Originally posted by Leonard
Any ideas to boost sales?

Leo
How about trading some companies products for advertising space, and use the products as 1,2, and 3rd place prizes in a drawing from the serial #'s of the purchased book? If no companies, then maybe give away issue 3 to the winners. Just a thought Leo . :lightbulb What about a download option of a hi res slideshow of pics using Macromedia authoring?

[igorstshirts]

I would hold off the "hype" of the second edition being finished until it's ready to ship!(or close to). I pre-ordered a copy right when the first announcement was made... Then I recieved an e-mail that I needed to re-register my pre-order... I figured I'd just pick it up at a book store but never saw it...:shrug: I still want one as a matter of fact... I might submit something for 2!:bounce:

[bentllama]

if the artists will be provided with a free copy this time instead to having to buy a book they are helping to sell?


If you can afford the app opf choice to create your entry, then you should be able to drop the money for a great leather bound collectors edition showcasing your work at the amazing subsidized price BP offers to the artists involved...

[Chewey]

Originally posted by Leonard
snip...


Any ideas to boost sales?

Leo

You could make it mandatory to purchase your annual offering of Expose as the price of being able to log onto this site and participate.

Purchase Expose = 1 year's membership.

:thumbsup:

Maybe a three tiered approach to membership...

1. Purchase the leather bound edition and you get unlimited posting rights.

2. Purchase the regular edition and you have a 4 post a day limit. (Gmask will opt for the leather bound version. :þ )

3. Purchase a color poster displaying some of Expose's artwork and that wiil allow you to enter and view the forums.

Current rules of decorum will still be left in place with the same thresholds for banning etc.



:lightbulb

[Lukashi]

expose 2 already?

[d4rk]

Another idea I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it is: Amazon.com . Plus, I'm not sure if this works but can't you just ship a huge shipment to Amazon and then they ship it out to the customers? Might be easier for you to let them do it. Just refer everyone to Amazon's site for odering. Pretty much every other book I see advertised on CGtalk seems to be sold through there. Might be worth lookin in to.

[pearson]

Originally posted by Leonard


Any ideas to boost sales?

Leo

Have you thought about getting Bud Plant to sell it (budplant.com (http://www.budplant.com)? He always has a big booth at the local comic convention and is well know as a source of quality art books (at least in the USA). Underwood Books (http://www.underwoodbooks.com/), makers of the Spectrum series (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1887424725/qid=1068686687/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2789011-3874420?v=glance&s=books) use him to distribute their Frazzetta books.

I assume that Amazon.com is right out?

[nemirc]

Is it time already???

Well.. better start working on my "character in repose" thing...

Luckily I have a couple of new images I'd like to submit :beer:

[Kirt]

I was going to suggest accepting PayPal payments for the book, but someone already beat me to it.

Expose 1 was a great book! Hopefully the sales of the first book will generate a little word of mouth and you'll do better on sales of future issues.

Advertizing in gamer & movie magazines might be an option. Afterall, the art featured within holds similar interests to those particular medias (what gamer or movie buff is not familiar with 3D graphics and concept illustration?).

I'll submit again, and gladly pay for a limit edition if I'm in or out. Getting a freebie for accepted entries doesn't concern me. I think getting published is payment enough. How much would it cost the artist to print a similar advertisement in a magazine? The freebie here is the promotion of the artist's work and possible future employment. Good enough for me.

I really don't see the arguement that others are presenting here.

Lastly, thanks again Leo and Mark for having me on the committee for book 1. It was indeed a great honor to be a part of that historic first printing from Ballistic.

:thumbsup:

[Leonard]

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments and suggestions! I have a few things to note so that you all get a good idea of the situation that Ballistic Publishing is in.

1. We ARE working with bookshops worldwide. If your bookshop doesn't have it, please tell them about EXPOSE'! We've had many orders already from bookstores all over the world, and we definitely need more resellers.

2. Amazon.com - we are looking at having EXPOSE' stocked at Amazon but are wary for a couple of reasons:
- You will not get it cheaper at Amazon.com. In fact it will be more expensive because...
- Amazon takes 55% cut of the RRP, which is highway robbery. We can sell just as many books through the Ballistic webstore and have it shipped worldwide.

At the end of the day, customers get the book cheaper and faster by buying it directly from Ballistic. We now even have custom boxes for our books so they are shipped in pristine condition!

And yes, I will look at alternative means of payment. This is definitely something worth looking at. Thanks to all for the heads up!

:thumbsup:

Leo

[VShane]

OOooo yeah, I'll definatley be chiming in, did lots o' covers this year!

Shane

[RockinAkin]

Cant wait to submit some pics soon!

Cheers to the ballistic team and everyone who tries and does get in the book.
:beer:

[Ibox]

wow... great news... :thumbsup:

[Philipstraub]

All this is really fascinating....so many ideas and so many different ways to make the book successful. Great comments here.

I've noticed there has been an onging debate regarding free books to those accepted in the Expose annual. Juried shows are a very trickey beast. I have been entering and judging juried art competitions for about 11 years now....from the prestigious Society of Illustrators, Society of Illustrators Los Angeles, Communication Arts, to Spectrum Fantasy Annual. I can tell you the one outstanding thing that seperates the Expose book from the rest of the annuals out there is this... It Is FREE To Enter. Society of Illustrators NY (probably the most competitive in the states with an average of 7,000 entries per year...Expose had 1,400 I think) is now charging 29$ per entry. The LA version of the "Society" is asking 25$ and Spectrum has stayed at 20$ since its inception(they are the best). It is absolutely standard for the shows to ask for entry fees...why??...because it costs money to produce a high quality art annual. From the publishing costs, to the jurors time, to the administrative aspects...it all adds up to an astounding amount of time and money. So we are given a gift by Ballistic Publishing when they don't ask for entry fees. In fact when I first spoke to Leonard a couple months back I mentioned just how grateful I was that they don't ask for entry fees.

As far as the numbers....I personally believe that Expose has to be put in the major markets for it find exposure (EXPOSE??). Even if it means making very little profit through Amazon or Borders ...it is an investment for the future...exposing it to the vast collectors market out there. I was recently at the American Illustration opening and I was talking about the "Expose" book. Not one person had heard of it...thats bad bad news. The best of the best in the illustration field were at that show...teachers, illustrators, broadcast people and film people...not one knew of the book. That is because many artists and art collectors still haven't migrated to the online art forum...and right now that is Expose only major audience. Ten years ago Spectrum started out as grass roots annual...now it is one of the most respected annuals out there. Word of mouth and exposure...(being sold at major book stores) has made it one of the "to get annuals" Time will tell...and it will take time for the word to spread about "Expose.....once it does I'm sure numbers will increase.

Phil

[Alex_Rooth]

Hi all

What resolution should entries be? Could you give some examples of the sorts of resolutions of pics in Expose 1? Some pictures in Expose 1 (which looked good online) seem really small, presumably because of low resolution. Thanks.

Also, are you interested in cel-shaded work? I don't think there was much (if any) in 1

Best Regards

Alex Rooth

[RockinAkin]

Originally posted by Alex_Rooth
Hi all

What resolution should entries be? Could you give some examples of the sorts of resolutions of pics in Expose 1? Some pictures in Expose 1 (which looked good online) seem really small, presumably because of low resolution. Thanks.

Also, are you interested in cel-shaded work? I don't think there was much (if any) in 1

Best Regards

Alex Rooth
I believe the ideal res requirements from Expose 1 were something like 3500 x 2500 being the minimum - and being as big as you can get for the maximum.

Not 100% sure though, so anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

[AJ]

Originally posted by bentllama
If you can afford the app opf choice to create your entry, then you should be able to drop the money for a great leather bound collectors edition showcasing your work at the amazing subsidized price BP offers to the artists involved...

Just wanted to say that many can't afford their app of choice (no, I'm not talking about piracy), their employers buy the software - not them... Do you really have all the tools you have at work sitting at home? :surprised

[vrf]

Well said, Phil. Expose could use more exposure in the larger art community. I suppose the logistics of such a task are tougher than we imagine, however.

I also suspect there's still some bias against digital art. Perhaps because of all of the shiny sports cars, large-chested women, Poser paint-overs, club-wielding ogres, etc. (Not to mention the cases where images have been partially or wholly ripped from copyrighted sources.) Of course, many of these pieces have technical merit--modeling, texturing, whatever--but we can probably understand a certain degree of hesitation in classifying it as "serious" art. Perhaps as the medium matures--and it will--we'll see more acceptance in the larger art community. I was glad to see the new forum emphasizing "emotion" in digital art.

Photo.net recently had a good thread on a somewhat related topic. One guy wondered if there was bias against digital photography. Lots of people seemed to think so, because too many digital illustrations (PS composites) were floating around under the banner of photography. Interesting reading, if you have time. Here's the link:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006Qxg

Vance

[Gremlin]

Ive got a project that may be perfect for Expose, but my question is... is there an required age? I'm 17... (and i'll still be 17 when Expose 2 comes out) so, are there and legal restrictions against minors?
Cheers!
:beer:

[bentllama]

Originally posted by AJ_23
Just wanted to say that many can't afford their app of choice (no, I'm not talking about piracy), their employers buy the software - not them... Do you really have all the tools you have at work sitting at home? :surprised

ah, but you just said they were employed... ;)

my point was that BP offers a great venue for the world to showcase its art and emotion...

I look forward to hopefully sharing some page space with some great artists from around the globe

:beer:

[fr3drik]

Hoping to see features such as production notes and author comments this time.

[Cararan]

Time to get things ready and see which one i'm going to enter. Expose 2 here i come.:drool:

[derelict]

hi this may sound pretty lame but i have to try all the same.

Will there be a pdf web friendly version of back issues (maybe 2-3 years old) for poor people to download in future?

It would be handy for the poor sods out there whom cant afford the shiny real thing. I mean balistic would have made all the money by than. Think of it as helping the community at large.:)

If you are offended than I would like to say sorry up front. cheers!

Edit: What i mean by balistic making money is... Balistic has made all the money to cover the innitial expenses to help the well to do community to get their hands on the well made book that they help contributed by way of content.

[schmu_20mol]

first of all congratulations to the ballistic publishing team... imho it's a serious effort to do an art annual...respect:applause:

boosters? definately more payment options... i myself have no credit card:blush: - why? i don't want to pay fees and then only need it once or twice a year... so i think that it'll be a great choice to provide more payment options

keep it up and good luck

[Saio]

I would buy Expose 1 if there was an alternitive payment options on that aswell :thumbsup:

Just to let you know..

[onelung]

i own expose 1, and my only thing is if there coming out so fast, will there be enough top quality art work to match the first one? it just feels like there isn't enought time.

[BnE]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Leonard


Any ideas to boost sales?

Leo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



just make the expose 2 easier to buy in europe. i just couldnt find it in stores, since i didn't want to pay shipping(i dont know if this word is right in english). i think, it will help you sell more in europe.

by the way, i was totally impressed by the works you chose to put in expose 1 !!!

[DaKrunch]

right bne.
I also had a very hard time to find it in stores and eventually ordered it.
But my friends were not so hot about ordering so i had to pay the sending charge on my own.

:cry:


(worth the prize anyway!)
:thumbsup:

[juanjgon]

Some submit questions:

* I have fill entry form for one image, but i have not recive entry form by e.mail to attach in zip image file ... perhaps now it is not necesay?

* What name must have zip file to upload?

Regards,

[Symphony]

Grreat!
Could anyone pls answer me with my folowing questions?
1> How many entries per person are allowed for this?
2> How will I get a confirmation if an entry is approved or in otehr case rejected before the publishing takes place?
Any replies would be much appreciated.
Much regards,
Me :)

[elfufu]

editing posts is lame.

[Wongedan]

hmmm worldwide?

distribute it to MY (malaysia) Kinokuniya bookstore!!!
but I would be really apreciate if they distribute to Jakarta (indonesia) kinokuniya bookstore, without censor plz....

[AJ]

Since it was deleted...

1. I'd like there to be mutliple payment methods
2. I think it would be a sign of goodwill to present contributing artists with a free copy.

Hope that's not too on the edge!

:surprised :shrug:

[BrandonD]

Of course, any forum that allows users to hide behind anonymity with names such as "Super Dork" and "Rockin' Artist" is a bit lame. It's funny just how more civil people can be when they have to be accountable for what they post ;)

[mushroomgod]

I was lucky enough to get into the first expose book but I feel that there where a few problems with the first book that would be nice to see changed for No 2.

I felt the quality of the work was let down by the quality of the printing and the paper. If you havent already get hold of a copy of the RustBoy book, its far better made (printing and paper)and the overall design was far superior.

Expose was a great book, its just a shame that one man can produce a far superior book than one publishing company.#

As for free copys.....instead of a discount on the hand bound version why not offer a free copy of the cheeper paperback version, I think the overall price is about the same?


I look forward to the new book...good luck!

:thumbsup:

[pearson]

Wow, I think this is a first? Such wholesale editing is scary. :surprised Usually when a mod feels the need to edit, they have no problem standing by their actions...the deafening silence this time smells of guilt...

since the above will probably get axed as well, lets get to the part that will stay:

Phil had some great points. I see lots of ads about Expose, but that's because I am here. I don't think there were any print ads in any trade rags (Game Developer, CGWorld, etc), and I didn't see any ads at other sites not in the CGNetworks fold. I'm sure the hope was that CGTalk is so big it could be self supporting, but the reality is not so rosy.

Phil is absolutely correct that the goal shouldn't be to make money on the first couple of issues, but to build brand awareness and make the book a collectable on par with Spectrum. So even if Amazon is going to mean zero profit from those sales, the benifit of exposure through their many marketing tactics would be well worth it in the long run.

Also, perhaps a moderate entry fee should be charged. Even a $5 entry fee, for an unlimited number of images per entry, would help significantly to offset the cost of subsidizing or providing free books to the winners.

[azazel]

I'd also vote for alternative payment methods.



PS Leo, please check your PM....

[Titan]

I agree with the nominal fee for entry ....a modest fee would help offset compensating artists.

[pearson]

Also, invitations should be extended to some of the biggest names who didn't submit anything to vol.1, in case they haven't heard about it or were too busy to remember the deadlines on their own.

Even browsing through a few past issues of Spectrum and sending invitations to some of those people wouldn't in bad form would it?

Also, as for what we as members can do, maybe put the expose pic and a link to it in your signature file when you post at other boards? That could help raise awareness at no cost... :shrug:

[MimikOctopus]

how come the artists aren't being paid? their hard work is what is gonna sell this book (to make other people money i might add).... You can promote and sell your soul over this but without the work you have nothing to sell. Seems unfair to me.

[Blackarts]

I notice that all so-called "negative" posts have once again been censored and deleted, again withouth any explanation.

Simply unbelievable. I don't see much point in posting on a forum where thoughts and opinions are edited out at seemingly at a whim by moderators who offer no explanation for their actions.

Er....I thought this was a *discussion* forum?

DM

[Neil]

coming from past experiences of launching new idea/products... everyone always wants a return immediately. It's already been said before here, they are trying to establish a presence first.
Once they got em knocked out, maybe things will change, maybe not... i'll bet you it will change for the better once they get a continous and large buyership.

These are the same guys that run this site, and they've been good to us so far, right? No pop ups, no spyware, no membership fee...etc. Just trust their judgement ok?

[ReneAlex]

edited pointless post.

[Zerflag]

Amazing! So I come back to check the progress of this thread and it's shrunk again! My posting has been deleted, as well as a number of others.
While I understand a mod's right to edit threads, I still feel, as a mod myself, that it's the mod's responsibility to demonstrate reasoning for said edits, otherwise you end up looking like the bad guy, trying to cover up condemning evidence. I'd be interested in further discussing this with said mods in a different venue, as of course, I don't want to disrupt the flow of this or any other thread.

[Blackarts]

well said Zerflag.

[JDaniel]

Originally posted by Blackarts
I notice that all so-called "negative" posts have once again been censored and deleted, again withouth any explanation.

Simply unbelievable. I don't see much point in posting on a forum where thoughts and opinions are edited out at seemingly at a whim by moderators who offer no explanation for their actions.

Er....I thought this was a *discussion* forum?

DM
I was just agreeing w/ the previous comment. But, I think I broke #1. Sorry, Leo.


1. Be courteous and polite. Show respect to the opinions and feelings of others. Use of the forums is a privilege, not a right.
2. Engage your brain before your mouth. You are responsible for your own words and any harm they may cause.
3. Don't dilute the forums with irrelevant and unnecessary fluff. CGTalk is a professional, moderated forum. It's a place to talk about all things related to computer graphics. It's NOT a free speech forum.
4. The Moderators reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread with or without reason or notice. Polite enquiries will be listened to. Any form of harassment will not be tolerated and is cause for instant banishment from the site.

[ambient-whisper]

while im not responsible for the culling/censorship in this thread, i will remind you not to make posts like these, thank you.

Originally posted by Korben
...

wow!

this tread is great!

this forum is cool!

you guys rock!

yipie!!!

:bounce:

:applause:

:buttrock:

[pearson]

MimikOctopus - As has been explained previously in this thread there is no other publication like this that doesn't charge a fee just to be considered for inclusion in it. This is consistent with the rest of the art world. If you want to get into a show you have to be invited (a guest) or you have to pay. It's called an entry fee. Those fees go to paying for the event or publication, and sometimes for prizes.

With Expose 1 there was no entry fee and if you were published you got about...well Leonard has removed the numbers...but I think it was about US$50. That US$50 was given to the artists in the form of a discount on the collectors edition of the book. Pretty sweet deal actually, when other places you have to pay US$20-75 just to be told you didn't make it in!

[Zerflag]

Agreed. So about ways to promote Expose 2, clever placement of advertisements in various 3d publications seems like the most obvious way, as this will definately target the correct audience. Also, I think if payments were made available in USD, as that's far more standard than AUD, that would really help boost sales in general.

[Maximillion]

Distribution is the number one way to get more sales. I grab "spectrum" every year, but I often don't know it's out until I see it on the shelves at a local artbook or comic store.

In fact I wouldn't be suprised if you could sell thousands of books through non-3DCG people picking it off the shelf and buying it for that person in the family that does CG. The present method of selling it almost completely removes the "gift sale" possibilities.

I also found it strange that the least interesting (but are very well executed) archetectural work filled up the first chunk of pages! I've had a few people pick it up, look at it and put it down until I show them the later part of the book.

[snakebyte]

What about art that was submitted the first time that didnt make it? will they be reconsiderd or do we have to resubmit the art?

[Zerflag]

Oh, one more thing, and this is simply a marketing kind of coverup thing, but if part of the cost of shipping and handling were to be absorbed into the price of the book itself, this too would probably make people more willing to buy it.
There's just a logic thing where people are ok with buying a $50 book with $6 shipping and handling but now a $45 book with $11 shipping and handling.

[pearson]

Very good point Zerflag, this is the same kind of psychology that makes every price end in $0.99. It really makes a difference that there is one less penny on there. Weird but true.

[Leonard]

Hi all,

Yesterday, moderators including myself deleted a number of posts that we felt, at the time, were unrelated to the original intent of the thread - which was to call for entries. As it turns out, I made a spur of the moment choice that was not beneficial to the community and I take full responsibility for it. I apologise if your post was removed.

Many of you are wondering why artists aren't getting paid for EXPOSE'. This is a fair question that was answered when we did the call for entries for EXPOSE' 1. But I think Jean-Eric Henault from CG Channel made the best and most accurate point (http://www.cgchannel.com/forum/viewthread?thread=4291):

"To the defense of the people behind CG Talk, I would say that publishing a book like this is extremely costly and especially time-consuming. I doubt they will make any serious profits off this. One of my business associates told me that "Coffee table books never make any money". You could argue it is also a privilege to be published in such a high-quality book. Several artbooks like Exposé actually charge a fee for artists who gets published in their pages. I think it is fair business practice."

Many other art books such as Spectrum require entry fees to cover the cost of viewing and judging the entries. Creating a book of such high quality is extremely expensive, coupled with shipping and distribution costs. But we feel that the benefits far outweigh the problems - artists get a chance to have their work published and seen worldwide and they don't need to pay to enter their work.

We do want to give artists a free book - that is our intention. With EXPOSE' 1, we couldn't give a free book because the company could not bear it financially - instead, artists were given access to the Artist Edition (same as the Limited Edition), at an extremely discounted price - nobody complained about this, as the artists were excited about being in EXPOSE'.

Again, I apologise for removing the posts. I was tired at the time, and felt that the thread was not going in a direction that was beneficial. I bear full responsibility for this action. I'm sorry.

Thank you all, for your understanding.

Leonard

[Zerflag]

Thank you, Leo for your honest response.

As for submissions to Expose, what is the logic behind free submission? While I can see that this will get you a lot more submissions than if you were to charge a moderate fee, it seems that you also have a lot more junk to cull. Perhaps if there was a moderate entry fee, I don't know, $10 per submission, then it would help to cover printing costs as well as cut down on the lower quality submissions.

[PixelShader]

That's OK Leo. I think it's very noble of you to admit and take responsibility for the actions. It has certainly boosted my confidence in CGTalk. Everyone makes mistakes and it's beyond fantastic that you are man enough to say "sorry" on a public forum like this.

You guys have done absolute wonders for the CG community internationally and this is all a learning process. I'm sure you won't go around deleting posts willy nilly again! :beer:

As far as EXPOSE' entries go I don't think that getting entry fees is right. Although it makes better business sense, it's just not fair for the artists who don't get it. If I enter stuff into EXPOSE', why should I pay for it to be *considered* then potentially disposed of? By far, EXPOSE' is more attractive than other similar publications who do charge entry fees.

Lighten up and enjoy the rest of the day. It's spring in Australia no?

Geoff

[Zerflag]

Of course, on the flipside, submissions to art shows there's a fee as well. Perhaps if all entries were posted somewhere, so that everyone gets a degree of exposure (although not the same degree as being published in print) this could further justify an entry fee.

[dreamz]

YES! this are great news!!! i have Expose' 1 and i'm trully honoured to be part of this community! for me, right now, CG Networks is just one of the sites featuring the BEST artists in the computer generated art field, people realy care about digital art, about giving oportunities, about embracing change and give it hope, i'd like to thank all CG staff for the serious effort to make this site a better place, for putting up a cornerstone for a new creative community of great people who devote their minds towards digital art, something new is rising, i'd like to thank everybody who wants to change the world in a constructive manner, not violence, not oppression is the way, it's all about generous love and honesty! cheers, tania

[PixelShader]

Originally posted by Zerflag
Of course, on the flipside, submissions to art shows there's a fee as well. Perhaps if all entries were posted somewhere, so that everyone gets a degree of exposure (although not the same degree as being published in print) this could further justify an entry fee.

Hi Zerflag,

I agree. But if you post all the artwork submitted Expose on a website somewhere, doesn't that ruin the surprise of what's in the book and what isn't?

No entry fees means that a lot more people can enter stuff and this opens up the possibilities! I know that some of the artists in Expose 1 are poor teenagers probably using pirated software, but are producing awesome work and this is what Expose is about - getting your creations out there into people's hands!

I'm just saying that I think they've got the right idea and having no entry fees, and giving artists the right to purchase the leather edition at cost, is fair for everyone.

Nobody is forcing artists to submit their work. If an artist thinks their stuff should receive renumeration - then don't enter it - go try selling it at a gallery and see just how difficult it is.

Geoff.

[Zerflag]

Yeah, well, it apparantly worked fairly well the first time around. I still have to pick up a copy myself, I wish I could just go to my local Barnes and Noble and pick up a copy, though, rather than having order through Ballistic directly.

[pearson]

I think an entry fee will be necessary at some point, simply to keep down the number of junk submissions. Lets face it, most of the art on the web today has about as much artistic merit as a 2yr old's crayon scribbles. By Expose 5 you will probably be getting over 100,000 individual submissions (if there is no entry fee), which will require a lot of time and effort just to cull the crap out. :shrug:

Personally I don't think $5 is too much for a chance at being published... Especially since most of these "poor" kids spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars a year on video games, music, and movies.

[Garma]

Originally posted by pearson
By Expose 5 you will probably be getting over 100,000 individual submissions (if there is no entry fee), which will require a lot of time and effort just to cull the crap out. :shrug:

Where did you get that 100K? I certainly doubt that, 100.000 is a lot! Even if indeed we are talking about 100.000 I think getting a bunch of people together who filter the submissions will do the largest part of the job. You could even filter on artist name (if one piece is crap, changes are that the other 10 submissions are also, right?)

Not that I care about a louzy $5 :) agree with you there. If they can lower the price of Expose 2 with that, bring it on.

[pearson]

Well, somebody said they had around 1500 submissions for the 1st one. Assuming that was just CGTalkers, then 4 years from now a lot of other boards are going to know about it and their members will submit... 100k is a lot, but look at how many posts are made each day at Sijun or DeviantArt, not to mention all the other boards out there...

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for free, but I just don't think it should be a big blow to the mojo to charge a small fee to keep the thing alive (at the very least that money could go for ads in magazines, and that sort of thing).

[ambient-whisper]

then you have to take into acount the administration that is needed to manage all the incomming entry fees...( since we do send our pictures through ftp.. how do you manage who paid without wasting much time?
it becomes somewhat of a pain trying to work around that and the website/book/ other things that need attention.

[pearson]

ROTFL :cool:

I wish the local businesses had that same attitude, "Naw, it's too much trouble to take your money....then I'd have to count it, and keep it someplace safe...really, just take it. Go on." :beer:

[Emmortal1]

I am curious as to why my post was deleted when I didn't mention anything negative, yet you seem to see the need to censor it?

I would agree that the PREVIOUS owners did wonders for the community, however the new owners have only proven that they would rather have everything "their" way instead of having the community voice their opinions on matters, even when they are in a professional manner. Why do you think CGChannel is no longer involved or affiliated at all with CGTalk? This thread is a prime example.

Emmortal

[Leonard]

I'm sorry Emmortal. I already admitted that it was my bad. Can you accept the fact that stuff like this just happens due to human fallibility, and I've learned from this experience to set out and improve?

Leonard


Originally posted by Emmortal1
I am curious as to why my post was deleted when I didn't mention anything negative, yet you seem to see the need to censor it?

I would agree that the PREVIOUS owners did wonders for the community, however the new owners have only proven that they would rather have everything "their" way instead of having the community voice their opinions on matters, even when they are in a professional manner. Why do you think CGChannel is no longer involved or affiliated at all with CGTalk? This thread is a prime example.

Emmortal

[PixelShader]

Knock it off Emmortal. Leo already explained that it was late, he was tired and the thread was not going the way it set out to.

The purpose of this thread is to call for entries for Expose - it's got nothing to do with censorship or CG Channel vs CG Networks.

Just give him a break. He already said sorry for deleting the posts. Let's get back to talking about Expose.

Geoff

[halo]

just a quickie

t&c's still talk about expose 1 :)

[robin]

We got t'ill Feb to produce something .... im glad about that.

Well this time im going in :)

[DanielKochlowski]

@ Pixelshader

it's not allways that easy in live....
Sure it was late and all ....whe are not talking about a 9 year old

editing posts is one thing but two time is another story


daniel

[PixelShader]

Originally posted by 3dgrafix
it's not allways that easy in live....
Sure it was late and all ....whe are not talking about a 9 year old


3D Grafix --

Yeah but continuing to focus on the negativity of the matter is completely unecessary. When you look at what Leo has done for the CG industry, from his days at CG Channel, to organising 3D Festival, 3D Awards and Expose, he's done his part in advancing the community.

He made a mistake, and is noble enough to apologise for it and make an effort to not let it happen again. That, I truly respect.

What Leo et al has done with Expose, CGNetworks, CGTalk, 3D Festival and 3D Awards is amazing. What I find even more amazing is that he's humble enough to admit his mistakes, and soldier on.

I think it's in everyone's best interest to not put any more thought into this matter. Let's just get some cool CG art into Expose 2, ok?

Geoff

[DanielKochlowski]

yup you def. got some good points there....

let's move the mouse around

daniel

[Emmortal1]

Pixel: One of my posts was deleted AFTER he had made that post. So my question was why after he posted an apology that it was deleted when there wasn't anything negative just asking a question? It is a moot matter at this point.

Leo: I can understand and do know that you are sorry for your hastily action. I will not bring anything more up in regards to that subject in this thread. What's been said has been said, and no need to regurgitate anything else. A lot of us as artists are very passionate about what we do, we feel very strongly about our views/opinions/beliefs, that's what makes us who we are. I do apologize if bringing it up again was out of line, I just wanted to know what was going on. Thank you again for stepping up to the plate and admitting to it like a man. I commend you for that. Take care,

Emmortal

[Remi]

Work, Alienware challenge, freelance, Expose 2, ect. I'm going to be a very busy lad....I hope I make it in this time...if not, i'm still going to buy it....:) Looking forward to this one as well:)

[Neil]

How many entries are being accepted this time?
How many was it last time?

[henrik]

A big thanks to everyone at Ballistic Publishing for their hard work and dedication to this project. I want to thank Leo personnally for the wonderful vision and goals he has continued to strive towards. Keep up the good work guys, I'll try to submit more work in no 2. Please guys, no complaints on the lack of prizes or compensation, enjoy the free submission.

Thanks.
Seung Ho Henrik

[seburo]

i have had the opportunity to work with a publisher on a book project and was exposed to workings of publishing world. so i guess, knowing what i know and how much it actually costs to have books printed, and also getting free labour from artists, I am slightly curious if the pricing is such to turn a quick profit or are you getting taken for a ride by your printers. I know a lot of the profits are to be made from directly selling your book to the consumer, which you are doing.i don't think it would be much to ask how many books you need to sell in order to start making a profit and where does that profit go.

[paintbox]

seburo, some money goes to maintaining this site with over 50.000 members (which you can imagine costs quite a lot) Which otherwise would be difficult to keep running. I read this in a thread of Expose 1 a while ago (can't remember where)

On page 5 of this thread there is another answer, the putting together of the book itself cost some money.

That's all I know :D

[JDaniel]

I am curious, how many people that submitted images purchased a book?

[PixelShader]

Originally posted by seburo
i have had the opportunity to work with a publisher on a book project and was exposed to workings of publishing world. so i guess, knowing what i know and how much it actually costs to have books printed, and also getting free labour from artists, I am slightly curious if the pricing is such to turn a quick profit or are you getting taken for a ride by your printers. I know a lot of the profits are to be made from directly selling your book to the consumer, which you are doing.i don't think it would be much to ask how many books you need to sell in order to start making a profit and where does that profit go.

Seburo,

I don't see the point of what you're trying to uncover here. Other art books such as Spectrum charge to submit each image and even then they do not pay any royalties.

Ballistic Publishing has already said that they will endeavour to give free books to artists accepted into Expose 2.

No-one is forcing artists to submit images into Expose - so if you don't like what they're offering, then simply ignore it and don't enter your stuff.

However, what Ballistic IS offering is far better than any other art book out there as they don't charge entry fees! I've personally spoken with some of the artists who had their work featured in Expose and they are ecstatic - showed me their leather bound editions and everything.

Come on man. If it wasn't for Expose, most of the artists featured wouldn't even have made it into print. The artworks would be lost forever on someone's harddisk. Expose is a golden opportunity for artists to have their works published, and be celebrated.

Also, I would not believe the trash that is being written on other forums as it is all based on speculation, from a competing website with a vandetta against CGTalk. Take the facts objectively. The guy who started the CG Channel thread had 1 post to his name, with an unidentified email/website (anonymous coward) - for all you know, it could be the webmaster of CG Channel himself jealous what CGTalk has produced and wanting to give it bad rep.

What ballistic is offering is more attractive than other publications, and what they are doing for the industry is far more amicable than its competitors.

Geoff

[MarkSnoswell]

Hi everyone ... I have been on away workin on a major feature film here in LA and have just had time to catch up. Here are a few summary points that cover most of the questions raised:

1. EXPOS'E is an annual publication. It is scheduled to come out in time for SIGGRAPH each year. That meand we need to start collecting entries now.

2. Entries are free -- you can enter as many times as you want. We feel that this is much fairer than charging people -- most of whome will never get into print and will just be subdising the small percentage who do get in -- so in fact all the people who miss out pay for the "free" books to be send to the few who get in.

3. The entry completly automated. This includes notification of entries and notification of the status of works as they go through the selection process. THis also provides for an on-line listing of all entries and artists index.

4. There will not be a CD with the book. THis would violate the authors rights and make it too easy for people to steal their work. Th on-line artists / images index will be the place to find artists, their current contact details and to see small web size previews of thier work. This WILL include all work submitted -- so everyone who enters gets exposure and a listing, not just the people who get into print.

5. Amazon is ONLY set up to recieve books from North American companies and stockists. Even then I know first hand of other high end (US based) art books that have stopped using Amazon due to the dificulty and expense.

3. We are slowly building up pur bookseller and direct distribution network. We are not going through "traditional" distribution channels because: they take 70% cut and you get paid 4 months or more after shipping books to them, and you pay for all advertising, and you pay for all returned books, and you pay for their warehousing after a while and they are only interested in books for a short period (6 months or so) ... and so on and so on with unbelievably draconian practices.
We continue to evaluate the traditional bulk distribution channels and will use them when it makes sense to -- but that is not now.

4. All book sales on BallisticPiblishing.com are inclusive of shipping now. There are also fixed bulk discounts of 22% for 10+ and 30% for 25+

5. We will be offering free books to people who get images printed for EXPOS'E 2 ... we are still looking into the cost of also shipping the books for free to published artists but we not sure that we can afford to cover the shipping as well as provide free books as well.

6. By SIGGRAPH we may well have 4 or more books out. We hope to anounce other titles shortly -- I dont want to give details away now. However I will say that there will be titles with a small number of authors who will share an industry standard royalty.

7. Everything else -- yes, every suggestion made that I havnt had the time to comment on here is something we are already lookin at - some make sense, some dont, or at least not at this time.

Lastly -- for the dedicated people who have read this far. The company goal that we all share is "To enhance the digital arts community". This means the quality of work, news and education, communication, showing of work to the public (an in EXPOS'E)giving opportunities, to work with us or to work on books (royalty paid) and other projects we are developing :) ...

There are a lot of things we are planning to do and you should start to see some announcments soon. We do this because we choose to and because we love what we do -- this industry is our life. We will only be as successfull as the whole community is. Right now this means the more books we sell the faster we can roll out new opportunities for everyone here ... in the near future there are some really exciting things goin on that you should all see the fruits of soon enough. For now keep working on those entries, keep showiong EXPOS'e 1 to everyone you know and get them to order their own copy rather then drooling over yours !

cheers

Mark

PS... this is a real crappy loaner kbd so please excuse the unusually high number of typos and spelling errors.

[Alex_Rooth]

I think my question about resolution of entries got submerged in all the other stuff.

So what resolution is required for entries? Was DivideByZero right in saying that minimum is 3500 X 2500 and the max is as big as you can get? Thanks

Alex

[MarkSnoswell]

There is no Minimum resolution. However if you want to be even considered for a full page image then the image needs to be big enough for a full page. If its smaller you still have the same chance of being selected -- but if you do get in the image will only be able to be as big as you provide.

No there is a maximum: a full spread (two pages) is as big as it gets. We dont want any images bigger than that.

Mark

[Alex_Rooth]

Thanks for responding Mark. I don't have experience of print work so am fairly ignorant about this but assuming I wanted to enter an image to be considered for a full page, how many pixels wide and tall should it be? I just want to put the numbers into my 3D app, turn on the renderer and leave it for a week or whatever it takes : )

Best regards

Alex

[Kirt]

Image size and other important information is on the Ballistic Publishing website. Follow the link for submissions and you'll get to a page that has the following:
Image Size (IMPORTANT PLEASE READ)
Image dimensions should be print resolution (as large as you can possibly render). Do not send in a low-resolution placeholder and ask us to get back to you, as we won't.
A guideline is 2657 pixels wide and/or 3636 high, 300 DPI.
DO NOT upsample your images to achieve higher resolution. If you cannot reach the desired full-page resolution, just send in what you have.

[Alex_Rooth]

Thanks kirt.

[vrf]

Originally posted by Alex_Rooth
Thanks for responding Mark. I don't have experience of print work so am fairly ignorant about this but assuming I wanted to enter an image to be considered for a full page, how many pixels wide and tall should it be? I just want to put the numbers into my 3D app, turn on the renderer and leave it for a week or whatever it takes : )

Best regards

Alex

Alex,

Get out a ruler, measure some magazine picture's width. Multiple the inches times 300. Ex: 4inches X 300 (DPI) =1200. That's how many pixels wide your render needs to be. Do the same for height.

Vance

[Alex_Rooth]

Thanks very much Vance - that is very helpful...that is a lot of pixels : ) I better get going.

Best regards

Alex

[francis001]

I have a question, and I apologize if it has been addressed before.

I went to the ballistic site to upload an image. I remember last time we had to create a zip file containing the image and an entry form. Is that the case this time as well? How do we get an entry form to include with our submission?

Thanks for the help,
Francis

[francis001]

:bounce: :cry:

[stallion151]

do you guys know how to delete entries?

i have six slots in the entry form, but only wish to submit two, and now i get 4 failure messages every 15min and it is overflooding my email. up to 500 at a time.

[Mibus]

If anyone has any problems with the image submission process, they should let us know _by email_.

submissions@ballisticmedia.net

[stallion151]

i guess you fixed my problem Robert, thanks alot mate. No more emails...now i feel unimportant, was getting used to seeing 200 unread emails. made me feel like i had friends ;)

i sent an email first to check why the ftp wasn't working and got a reply from 'helen' at ballistic so i sent her another one thinking that would be the quickest way to fix my problem.

Well thanks, :bowdown:

[TheGreenGiant]

Hi all,

not to disqualify anyone but I had a look at Expose1 recently off a mate and I was surprised/dismayed by the amount of architectural stuff in that book. I mean, there are enough architectural mags you can go pick up and see renders in, so why all those pages allocated to architectural viz? I skipped the lot to see the other stuff and they were great. Stalhberg's stuff looked stunning as did a couple of forum posters' work. 3D art/fantasy/model/car/etc is a lot less publicised and I think these categories should be the ones given more paper space. That is all.

* someone mentioned the dvd/animation edition. Are you guys looking into that at Ballistic?

[Cameo]

Hi I have a quick q for the organisers.

In the submission guide it says;

1. You should feel free to "hand edit" your images as much as you like. 3D renders should be viewed as if they were raw photographs -- they should be hand edited, colour corrected, sharpened, and edited to improve their quality as much as you can.


Do image filters count here or are they against the rules or spirit of things? I have a 3d image I made and was going to play with some PS filters to get a slightly different effect. I was wondering if this is allowed as its not strictly 'hand editing'?

Thanks

[PixelShader]

Cameo,

Filters are fine, as EXPOSE is about digital art.

If you really want an answer from the publishers, you should email them rather than post on CGTalk as there are so many posts here that go unnoticed.

Good luck,

Geoff

[MarkSnoswell]

Originally posted by Cameo
Hi I have a quick q for the organisers.

<snip>
Do image filters count here or are they against the rules or spirit of things?

Thanks

There are no rules restricting your creative methods -- it's not how you do things, it's the result that matters!

[ufukl]

some questions for image size:

- A guideline is 2657 pixels wide and/or 3636 high, 300 DPI.

does that mean 2657x2657 or 2657x3636

my entry images resolution 2657X1997 .
Whats the smallest possible acceptable render size?


thanks

[DEVARSHY]

bUT... When you submit the Image...COREL dRAW... IS NOT THERE IN THE SOFTWARE CHOICES..
I thought Art could be created in Corel Draw!I hav a piece which makes use of it partially....There is no "Others" choice...


And I do not want to commit Fraud by ommission.

What to do??

[DEVARSHY]

OOPS! double post!

[Cameo]

Apologies for this noobish question but I've never actually produced anything for print before.

Right Size?

I was planning on submitting an image I originally designed as 640*480 for my demo reel. I read the guidelines about what sizes are needed for Expose.

For a new render at print size, in order to maintain the same aspect ratio as the original what's the maths involved? What I tried doing was going into Photoshop, resizing a 640 render with 'constrain proportions' on and entered the expose width guideline and got PS to work out the height.

If I use these height and width values as my render resolution will this be exactly correct? At glance it looked correct but I just wanted to be absolutely sure I was keeping true to the original.

Thanks

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