skinning (hand problem)

[ryankittleson]

I don't really understand what you're asking. is your native language spanish? if so, plese repeat the question in spanish as I am fluent in it.

[jeotero]

HOLA GRACIAS, por tu respuesta...

tengo los brazos completamente extendidos hacia los lados, las manos estan mirando hacia abajo, sin mover los brazos como rotas las manos hacia arriba 180 grados (sin mover los codos (elbows)) evitando deformacion (twist) en las muñecas

Gracias

Si tienes algun problema con el español me preguntas


Sorry about the reply in spanish guys, if you still have any doubt or you need images to clarify he subject in english or in spanish, please dont hesitate to contact me.

And thanks to brainbutter for a first reply, in a first question:wavey:

[Iguiniz.X.]

He no prob man, I can too read spanish, and speak ( not fluently.)
I just figures out what you are doing. see my challenge and see.
I think it is that you have to go back in the hyragrie.
see image. Deselect the skin with the light bump. ( red arrow.)
know you can select a bone without any problem
select the animation button ( <-- I don't know if his is needed )
and place the time bar for example on 40. select the wrist bone and rotate it 180 degrees or as you wish. now pres the play button. you see the bone structior move between timebar number 1 and 40 and if you have done it correct your hand rotates 180 degrees. know activate the skin thing again and the hand goes with the bones.

i hope this is clear if not I'll try and make a short tutorial next weekend for you. or contact me on msn --> some were in my challenge there is my MSN mail. But I don't have time this week so it all have to be next week and I hope for you you have fixed the problem by then.

[jeotero]

Thanks for the reply but thats not my question, im posting an image to explain my poor english (an image is worth a thousand words)
Extend your arm, rotate your hand 180 degrees without rotating the elbows

[Zerflag]

I would just like to take this time to point out that wrists do not rotate that way! If you want the hand to turn so that the palm points towards the sky, you should rotate it at the elbow and at the shoulder. Rotate your hand that way a couple of times while looking at your arm in the mirror. Anyway, the reason the hand is getting all weird and twisted like that is because you're twisting vertices around. If you looked at it in low poly mode, you would see exactly what's causing it. So... lesson here, don't rotate at the wrist, looks unnatural, yay.

[jeotero]

In real life I can rotate my hand 180 degrees without rotating the shoulder.

I just want to rotate the hand, do i need to do it at elbow level ? and how because if I rotate the elbow it also twist like that.

Sorry for the english..:D

Jorge

[srv]

you're correct about the wrist rotation jeotero.
This article may help you set up your rig the way you want.


http://www.3dgate.com/techniques/000605/0605maya_arm.html

I know its Maya but the concept is still the same for max.

[jeotero]

thanks for the link checking it now, be back after reading

[jeotero]

no, i was wrong the skin is still twisting even after i add the extra bones and i rotate both at the middle of the forearm and the wrist

[srv]

Hey,
Could it be the envelopes for your bones are not set up to allow the deformation of your skin the way that you want.
You also need enough detail to allow deformation where you want it. In other words more vertices where the skin bends or twists.
If you post the .max file I could have a look at it for you.

[Roman]

I believe the problem is simpler and has nothing to do with your IK/bones. Could you drop a pic of your unsmoothed mesh (lowpoly). Cause I believe u just have not enough polys at the wrist. And when modelling a character u should always create more polys at joints, like the knees, elbows, etc. Also, always put your meshsmooth at the top of your stack. Hope this helps.

[LFShade]

I have a setup that might do the trick, but it's incredibly hard to explain. I'll try. Start with one forearm bone, with the IK from the shoulder to the wrist like usual. Slim that bone down, making it very narrow. Then, make 3 more bones going from the elbow to the wrist, the first one parented to the forearm bone. Lock off the Y and Z rotations of all three of these bones. These bones should not be part of any IK chain. Parent the root of the hand (the wrist) to the last of these three bones. Now get ready for some parameter wiring. Wire the X-rotation of the wrist (assuming it's aligned to the arm bones) to the X-rotation of each of the three bones, but change the wire expression so that it reads "X_rotation/3" (without the quotes.

The result should be that when you rotate the wrist, the three forearm bones rotate in progression from the elbow to the wrist. Include these bones in your skin modifier. The fourth forearm bone (the one going up the center of the forearm all the way to the wrist) should be left out of the skin modifier; it's only purpose is to be in the IK chain.

I hope I haven't completely lost you with this description, but like I said it's difficult to describe. Perhaps later I'll post up a sample file of the arm rig for you to poke around in.

[jeotero]

ok LFShade im going to give your suggestion a try.

For srv and roman, here is the file im using, thanks if you check this out for me.

Jorge

[jeotero]

any new ideas how to solve this ? :hmm:

[srv]

Hey jeotero,
I tried what LFShade suggested to do and it worked quite well.
Good tip LFShade.
Here's the file.
wristtwist.max (http://kubrick.cdes.qut.edu.au/~n2781930/kib820/wristtwist.max)

It's a little ugly though as I didn't align the bones properly. I'm not really sure how to do the alignment easily.
LFShade - maybe you can enlighten us.

[LFShade]

I'll take a look at it tonight. Not sure what you mean about the alignment.

[jeotero]

now that i hava taken a look at srv scene LFShade explanation is easy to understand (he he an image is a thousand words)

now im going to check if increasing the geometry with this setup makes the rotation look better.

thanks for all guys :)

[srv]

Hey,
post the scene if you get it looking better. Proper wrist rotation is a good thing to know how to do.

[LFShade]

Here's my version of the setup. I pulled it directly from one of my rigs; it works well. Poke away!

[srv]

Thanks LFShade,
very cool setup.
Do u have any other rigging tips?

[LFShade]

I suppose I might; it would depend on what you need to know:)

[srv]

Hey,
I was thinking about tails.
I created a rig for a cat I'm animating.
I used an IK chain with 8 or so bones for the tail.
And I animate the swivel angle via a point helper.
I would still like more control. I've seen the spline IK script out there but its problem is it doesn't maintain volume of the mesh.
Take a look at the file if you have time.

skeleton32.max (http://kubrick.cdes.qut.edu.au/~n2781930/kib820/skeleton32.max)

Anyone who has any tips about making this rig easier to animate please feel free to have a look and and suggest something.

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