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Bigwil357
11-01-2011, 03:05 AM
Hello. This is my first post. I tried looking everywhere for the answer, so please dont be upset with me. well..... I am creating a building explosion for a simulation to demonstrate the capabilities of military weaponry. I have the plugins Pulldownit, and Blastcode. I am not sure why, but i have read peoples comments saying that these plugins have issues, and are not good for production. I also hear that maya has its own dynamics plug in that can shatter and demolish objects. I would like to know what this is called. PhysX? Bullet? I am really lost on this one. Everyone in my small 3D class is using lightwave, and I am the only one investigating dynamics, so i really dont have anyone to ask. I am just trying to find out how to do these effects inside of maya, "the correct way", so i will know how to do these effects the correct way.

My second question is, how do you get particles to emit from the broken debris? I already know how to make the fluid make a dust effect rising from the debris. I am looking to have particles/small rocks form when the shattered pieces are falling/exploding from the building. I see this all the time, but i am unsure where to look, or at least what the name of this effect is. Any help is appreciated.

Derek Wolfe
11-02-2011, 06:23 PM
Look at DMM in the latest Maya release for destruction effects.

mandark1011
11-02-2011, 06:48 PM
DMM is awesome BUT im still waiting for a script that will allow debris (particles) to be emitted from fracturing faces. They are being very cryptic about how to make it work and are not answering posts regarding this on the pixelux forums.

SLOW SLOW response to tutorial requests, python scripts etc.

Bigwil357
11-03-2011, 01:07 AM
DMM is awesome BUT im still waiting for a script that will allow debris (particles) to be emitted from fracturing faces. They are being very cryptic about how to make it work and are not answering posts regarding this on the pixelux forums.

SLOW SLOW response to tutorial requests, python scripts etc.

Yes exactly! I want those particles to fall from the broken shards. This is the type of effect that i am going for.

http://vimeo.com/8150191
http://vimeo.com/17980069
http://vimeo.com/19992225

I see that nParticles is mentioned too. I am learning maya at a good rate, but this problem has put a halt to my production. I am also wondering where to find DMM. ANd do i really NEED DMM? I am not 100% sure, but it looks like others are producing these effects without the plugins. I dont mean to be pest about this, its just that if i knew of 1 tutorial, about this, my problems would be solved, and i can continue to work happily with my new knowledge. I have googled this about a hundred times, and i haven't been able to get anywhere close to a solution.

mandark1011
11-03-2011, 04:36 PM
you could use NCloth as pre-fractured pieces that will work and is probably the technique used in the tower collapse. As for emitting particles or NParticles from faces makeing a texture then using that to drive emission is the way to go, you may need an animated texture to emit only on released surfaces.

Good luck

Bigwil357
11-06-2011, 02:28 PM
Thanks for your suggestions! I am now facing a new issue. Now when ever i try to fracture my object, Pulldownit will make duplicate geometry. I thought i could just delete it but it just stays. Pulldownit, is also crashing when fracturing the object. Ive had the crash issue happen, alot more than the duplicating. I have been up for hours just trying to get a simple simulation going. Its consistently crashing at 2-3%. I think i will make the move and get Maya 2012 with DMM. Hopefull all this buggy behavior will cease.

DynamicBoy
11-06-2011, 10:30 PM
Pulldownit by default saves the original geometry and shatter a duplicate, this is very useful if you want to undo the shatter operation, but you can shatter the original gemetry directly by setting "Original object->delete" in the Shatter it panel.

For shattering correctly a model it must be "solid", without open edges and things like this, this is needed for any model intended for dynamics, if your model fails to shatter probably is becouse it have any issue and you have to fix it.

Bigwil357
11-08-2011, 12:44 AM
Pulldownit by default saves the original geometry and shatter a duplicate, this is very useful if you want to undo the shatter operation, but you can shatter the original gemetry directly by setting "Original object->delete" in the Shatter it panel.

For shattering correctly a model it must be "solid", without open edges and things like this, this is needed for any model intended for dynamics, if your model fails to shatter probably is becouse it have any issue and you have to fix it.

After a long weekend, I figured out the problem...I think. I redid my geometry and the crashes still happened. I have a highway scene, and I have a bridge that is the over pass, and that is the object that I am trying to demolish. I have a beam holding up a highway sign, and everytime I would try to shatter it, Maya would crash. The mesh was made to be sub decided, so there were alot of edge loops. I decided to not fracture it, and that seemed to keep Maya running. I have support beams for the bridge which are .prying more than a cube that's been extruded and beveled a couple of times. Trying to shatter the beams would crash it too. It seems for my situation, Maya dosent like to shatter any complex shapes, or anything with 2 edges that are close to each other. I was under the impression that any geometry can be shattered. The reality for my situation seems to be to keep it as simple as possible, and Maya won't crash.

hkspowers
11-08-2011, 06:09 PM
After a long weekend, I figured out the problem...I think. I redid my geometry and the crashes still happened. I have a highway scene, and I have a bridge that is the over pass, and that is the object that I am trying to demolish. I have a beam holding up a highway sign, and everytime I would try to shatter it, Maya would crash. The mesh was made to be sub decided, so there were alot of edge loops. I decided to not fracture it, and that seemed to keep Maya running. I have support beams for the bridge which are .prying more than a cube that's been extruded and beveled a couple of times. Trying to shatter the beams would crash it too. It seems for my situation, Maya dosent like to shatter any complex shapes, or anything with 2 edges that are close to each other. I was under the impression that any geometry can be shattered. The reality for my situation seems to be to keep it as simple as possible, and Maya won't crash.

I never had a problem trying to shatter any geo as long as it was built properly. Highres geo shattered fine as long it's quads and solid. If you try to shatter and then shatter on top of that you may encounter a crash but at that stage it's because the mesh is no longer perfect quads.
It might be a hardware dependent issue you are experiencing or something else in your scene causing conflicts.

Bigwil357
11-12-2011, 05:25 AM
I never had a problem trying to shatter any geo as long as it was built properly. Highres geo shattered fine as long it's quads and solid. If you try to shatter and then shatter on top of that you may encounter a crash but at that stage it's because the mesh is no longer perfect quads.
It might be a hardware dependent issue you are experiencing or something else in your scene causing conflicts.


Thanks for your reply! I had gone throught and made everything quads. This was only an issue on the bridge. The problem was With the pillars that support it. I have attached a photo of the geometry. It is pretty much a cube with a few extrusions and a bevel. Pretty simple. This was making my scene crash every time. i didnt have A problem shattering the bridge at all, even multiple times. http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t19/ithrowrocks/shatterprob.jpg

JohnLIC
11-12-2011, 11:48 AM
FWiw, I have also experienced PDI shatter crashing every 5 minutes. I think I was shattering a plain old poly cube. Once you get past the shattering step, the dynamics part is pretty fast and stable.

czaps
11-12-2011, 04:49 PM
Bigwil357

Check Your geometry normals on the pillars.
They looks like flipped out. It can cause the issues.

cheers

czaps

Bigwil357
11-12-2011, 08:03 PM
I do all of my modeling in Modo, and then import .fbx into Maya. I know what flipped faces look like in modo, but i have never seen it in maya. I went to display face normals, and it looks like all faces are pointing outward. When there flipped, the geometry turns completely black. Good suggestion though. I never thought to check that.http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t19/ithrowrocks/asdfgadsfg.jpg

czaps
11-12-2011, 08:13 PM
Check it ....

It looks for me that some of the faces might be flipped out and some are okey. Sometimes normals are displayed BIG and it may seems facing right but in fact it is a normal direction from the face underneath . Also look out for a double faces...

cheers

czaps

hkspowers
11-12-2011, 10:41 PM
If you can, post up your file and I will try to shatter it on my system and see if I get the same crash. If we both get identical crashes and there is indeed nothing wrong with your geo then it would be a good file to send in for a bug report.

DynamicBoy
11-14-2011, 10:31 PM
Your pillar looks right, It should shatter corectly if not, it is probably an issue of the importer in Maya, sadly importers ussually have many issues, your model looks very simple though, hopefully it is easy to fix by hand, if you like attach it in your post and I will check it and tell you how to fix it.

hkspowers
11-19-2011, 09:48 PM
As DynamicBoy mentioned your file had some errors probably from the crossover from Modo to Maya. I tried shattering your model several times and it failed every time. I then exported it as an obj and then imported it again and it shattered fine. Exporting your models as an obj from Maya is a great way to clean them of unknown errors. Maybe try exporting straight from Modo as obj and see if that works otherwise the above method works fine.
Hope this helps

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2745352/pdiShatter.jpg

Bigwil357
11-20-2011, 01:21 AM
Thanks alot! I couldn't figure out why the simplest geometry wouldn't shatter. I will from now on Export FBX from Modo> Import into Maya> Export OBJ from Maya>, then Import the OBJ back in. When i First started using Maya there was a problem Exporting OBJ from Modo to Maya. I was advised to just EXPORT in FBX. I really do appreciate the help. At my school, were just taught to use ALot of Modo and Lightwave. Myself and 1 other student are going against the grain using Maya. I feel that I wont get as many job opportunities if I use Lightwave, so I am basically teaching myself everything. Anyways thanks for the help guys!!!

stooch
11-20-2011, 09:35 PM
you have the right idea with lightwave not being good for your career. one thing to consider too is that lightwave is a cheap app, so all the cheapass studios will want to use it because its cheap. And guess what else they dont like to spend money on? your salary :)

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