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Swissphil
11-07-2003, 08:58 PM
I'm playing again with the renderer of Messiah:Studio. This time I decided to port a scene I did in C4D. All surfaces are texture mapped, because I haven't digged into Messiahs procedural shaders.

I used a lot of spherical lights to soften the shadows (every torch and the mainlight outside the window). Now, if I only knew how to place flames on the torches :hmm:
Most of the render time is spent on the floor during the antialias step, probably because of its bumpmap. Render time for each shot is about 90 minutes with direct lighting on my good ole 1800+ Athlon.

http://homepage.mac.com/philippweimer/DungeonDirect00.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/philippweimer/DungeonDirect01.jpg

This is far from being finished, but I decided to share it anyway :cool:

lmilton
11-09-2003, 01:50 AM
Looks like a good start. Are you using Hybrid? What AA settings are you using?

-lyle

Swissphil
11-09-2003, 08:01 AM
No, its only direct lighting and AA Setting is Adaptive SS Level 2.
I did excactly the same scene in Lightwave 6.5b, Rendertime itself is about the same, but the the antialias step (Antialias low) is much faster.

I also did a Photon Map render (1 Mio Photons), much to my surprise it looks pretty much the same as direct ligthing, probably because all the torches use lights with fall off?

Swissphil
11-10-2003, 07:17 PM
Lyle, is there a way to exclude objects from casting shadows? I'd like to prevent the torches from casting shadows (only the torches), then I could replace the spherical lights with ordinary point lights and speed up rendertime by 50%.

Promised you to do some tinkering on the scene...
http://homepage.mac.com/philippweimer/DungeonDirect01a.jpg

And here a Montecarlo Render, rendertime about three and a half hours, adaptive SS Level 2 too. Personally I like the direct light version better:)

http://homepage.mac.com/philippweimer/DungeonMonteCarlo01.jpg

lmilton
11-10-2003, 10:25 PM
Those renders look quite grainy... even in the direct lighting version. Maybe the textures contribute to this in the direct version.

Try working this Geoff Suttor's modified Sponza scene:

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/rsuttor/

It may give you a feel for the various render settings. He had a different page up that showed the render "in progress" but I don't have the link.

-lyle

bugzilla
11-11-2003, 08:12 PM
I have had the same problem with grainy renders like the last screenshot in Messiah Studio. I am using the default render settings in most cases. The grain in my renders is much more pronounced. I can't get rid of it (when I set the Global Illumination type to anything but none). Also, the render times are extremely high for the quality I am getting.

Anyone know if there is something that needs tweaking to avoid this?

chikega
11-12-2003, 07:16 PM
This is my very first rendering using Messiah:Studio. Yes, it's pretty simple - but, hey I've got to start somewhere. I'm experiencing some graininess - although not too bad. The model is of course by Joe Cosman.

http://www.3ddmd.com/images/Messiah/Demon1MC.jpg

Coming from a LW background, if more than 4 splines intersect you will sometimes get a "star-like" creasing or pinching artifact in OpenGL. This is not a problem in LW since it doesn't show up in the final render. Here's an OpenGL view showing the pinching on the skin at the base of the horn. In the Messiah rendering above, you can see the same effect - although more subtle.

http://www.3ddmd.com/images/Messiah/Demon_GL.jpg

The LW rendering below shows a similar setup using Monte Carlo GI (no Shading Noise Reduction), Enhanced Low AA, Adaptive Sampling enabled. Note the absence of the artifact. It has less graininess but took twice as long to render.

http://www.3ddmd.com/images/Messiah/DemonLW.jpg

Can anyone else confirm or deny this finding? :)



The settings for the Messiah GI rendering above:

Alienware PC PIV 3.0Ghz 2GB RAM Nvidia FX5900 Ultra
640 X 480
AA Enhanced
Level 2 Threshold .015
Light source Enviroment and Direct
GI Monte Carlo with Default settings
Rendering time: 1:55 (one minute and fifty-five seconds)
2 threads enabled
Progress (preview) enabled

One spot light placed above Demon
Intensity 3
Falloff None
Volume Shadows checked

lmilton
11-14-2003, 03:56 PM
You're correct. MetaNURBS may render with creases. Fori's planning to address that issue, and we'll let you know when the fix is available.

It's important to note, however, that with MetaNURBS the subdivision level is irrelevant for rendering. This is because messiah renders them directly so that your models have "infinite resolution"; i.e. no matter how close you get to the model's edge, it will always be smooth.

The only downside may be that the models may take longer to render. However, the major upside (in addition to being infinitely smooth) is that it is highly memory efficient because the model is never subdivided into polys like in most other renderers.

Incidently, the subdivision level is only used for OpenGL drawing.

Nice test, Gary:thumbsup:

-lyle

lmilton
11-14-2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by bugzilla
I have had the same problem with grainy renders like the last screenshot in Messiah Studio. I am using the default render settings in most cases. The grain in my renders is much more pronounced. I can't get rid of it (when I set the Global Illumination type to anything but none). Also, the render times are extremely high for the quality I am getting.

Anyone know if there is something that needs tweaking to avoid this?

I remember asking you for a screenshot of your Render->Settings interface along with a sample render. But you never responded...

-lyle

bugzilla
11-14-2003, 04:39 PM
I kept trying to attach a pic, but the server wouldn't let me. Anyway, looks like I'm going to be selling Messiah soon.

chikega
12-02-2003, 02:43 AM
Here's a quickie test render. I mainly wanted to see how messiah handled UV maps. There are two map types - color and bump. The maps were quickly roughed out in BodyPaint 2 - the teeth, gums or horns were left undone.

messiah handled the UV maps like a champ - I used the latest version of messiah which automatically uses the first UV map when selecting UV map type. :)

http://www.3ddmd.com/images/Messiah/Demon_UV.jpg

lmilton
12-05-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by chikega
Here's a quickie test render. I mainly wanted to see how messiah handled UV maps. There are two map types - color and bump. The maps were quickly roughed out in BodyPaint 2 - the teeth, gums or horns were left undone.

messiah handled the UV maps like a champ - I used the latest version of messiah which automatically uses the first UV map when selecting UV map type. :)

http://www.3ddmd.com/images/Messiah/Demon_UV.jpg

Looks cool:) Are you planning to do any full renders with this character?

-lyle

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