Puppet Master - New autorigger available for Maya

[TheWraith]

haven't tried this yet since i'm on maya 5. curious though, does it do quadrapeds?

[Octagon]

Originally posted by TheWraith
haven't tried this yet since i'm on maya 5. curious though, does it do quadrapeds?

I never tried it, since this was built with humans in mind.
But you might try bending over the template skeleton to get a crooked skeleton that might just work as a quadruped.

Give it a try :)

Matthias

[modeling-man]

when do you think version 5.0 will be out? i'm dying to try this out!

[Ibanezhead]

This seems like a great tool. Is it possible to add IK/FK arms, IK/FK spine, and a stationary head option in a future version? A proxy body might would make a great addition too.

You've gotten to a great start with this. I look forward to keeping up with it's progress! And thanks that it's for 4.5. Many of us haven't upgraded yet...

Vic

[zenrender14]

Hi Octagon,
Is there a mailing list or something of the sort where we can request to be notified when version 5 comes out? I am learning rigging, and have tried a few different tools. I would love to try yours out, but alas, I only have Maya 5.

Thanks,
- ZR

[Octagon]

Originally posted by modeling_man
when do you think version 5.0 will be out? i'm dying to try this out!

i'm currently switching over to 5.0.1 myself. but it'll definately take a minimum of 2 weeks to get this going for 5.0.1 since i already noticed there are quite a few errors going on, when i start the script on 5.

but don't worry, it will be there. :)

[Octagon]

Originally posted by Ibanezhead
This seems like a great tool. Is it possible to add IK/FK arms, IK/FK spine, and a stationary head option in a future version? A proxy body might would make a great addition too.

You've gotten to a great start with this. I look forward to keeping up with it's progress! And thanks that it's for 4.5. Many of us haven't upgraded yet...

Vic


ik/fk arms as well as ik/fk spine (schleifer dvd style) are definately top priority things for the next version.
first priority is get puppet master up and running on 5 AND to try to keep it compatible to 4.5. well, i sure hope it's at all possible without too much nasty code (version checking and case statements aso.).

i also like the proxy idea. i thought abouth this too when i gathered a list of features i wanted to do. it shouldn't be to hard to do this, but i have to tell you it's just not that important as the other things you mentioned.

anyways, thanks for the feedback!

matthias

[Octagon]

Originally posted by zenrender14
Hi Octagon,
Is there a mailing list or something of the sort where we can request to be notified when version 5 comes out? I am learning rigging, and have tried a few different tools. I would love to try yours out, but alas, I only have Maya 5.

Thanks,
- ZR

i haven't setup a mailing list or forum or anything like that, because i thinks it's best to keep information about the further development centralized.
i like to use this thread as the tool to communicate new versions coming out, as well as getting bug reports and helping people with existing bugs or issues.
in addition, there will be like a version history on my website where the progress of the development is documented. but nothing more, no forums or anything, as i said.
just check this thread from time to time or check highend. new versions will be published there immediately when they are ready for release.

Matthias

[Octagon]

Originally posted by Octagon

anyways, thanks for the feedback!

matthias


btw, if anyone has access to maya on linux or osx i'd love to hear if there are any problems with it.

i tried to go by the book (use mayas mel commands for io string conversions depending on OS) about all I/O-related things, so it actually should work on all systems.

matthias

[zenrender14]

I hear ya (about keepin info centralized), thanks for the info. I'll sub to this thread to keep aware of your updates. Thanks again!

- ZR

[dwalden74]

Hi Mattias-

Just wondering, did you make any serious improvements with this since the last time I looked at it?

[Octagon]

Originally posted by dwalden74
Hi Mattias-

Just wondering, did you make any serious improvements with this since the last time I looked at it?

Nah, not yet. I just finished my new website so I figured this would be the right time to make the tool publicly available.

But the next version with several improvements is on the way ... Just have an eye on this thread from every now and then (it´s not going to happen in the next days, more like in the next 2-3 weeks)

cheers,
matthias

[visualboo]

Hey Matthias, are you going to release your rain tool?

[Octagon]

Originally posted by visualboo
Hey Matthias, are you going to release your rain tool?

rainSetup won´t be released to the public at this time.

I developed it specifically for use in the short film "Annie and Boo" (www.annieandboo.com) which is running festivals this and next year. Sorry.

Matthias

[visualboo]

That's what I thought, I was just wondering because it's in the goodies section.

Take care
-b

[Octagon]

Hi there,

I finally got around to updating Puppet Master.

The new version
- is Maya5 compatible (it runs on Maya 4.5 and up),
- has FK for arms finally,
- has many smaller improvements such as retaining interface settings (optionVars all the way)
- and general speed improvements during the auto-rigging process

Grab the new version from highend3d.com or my website at http://www.maze3d.de/tools/puppetmaster/downloads/PuppetMaster11.zip

Give it a try if you haven´t done yet. I´d love to hear your comments!

Matthias

[safakoner]

Easy to use and cool. I realy like it. Thanks. :applause:

[Octagon]

Originally posted by equinox
Easy to use and cool. I realy like it. Thanks. :applause:

Thanx, glad you like it :)


By the way, two people mailed me about problems getting Puppet Master to run at all on OSX. Here's the info:

-- cut start

EtherealWhisper wrote on 03-04-2004 11:04 PM:
Hey,
I just downloaded Puppet Master and placed all scripts and shelves and icons in their respective directories under osx, but when I tried to start Maya it wouldn't start. It always stopped as it tried to load the scripts under the scripts directory. I'm not sure if its just the shelf that was causing the problem, but I just removed everything related to Puppet Master, and Maya started fine. Oh, and I'm using Maya Complete 5.01


Hm, that sounds really bad.
I wouldn't know why my scripts would interefere with maya's startup at all.
Do you have any kind of error message in the output window or some console on OSX when maya cannot start?
Unfortunately I don't have access to OSX, so I'm dependant on people like you who do have access to try and troubleshoot the problem.

Thanx.
Matthias


-- end

Does anybody have any idea what is happening here? Or has anybody had issues with using scripts on OSX in general?

Matthias

[EtherealWhisper]

In my original message, I meant to say "...as it tried to load the scripts under the "shelves" directory..." Just a note. I'll try to troubleshoot it some today, maybe I'll have some luck. script looks cool nonetheless...

[of_the_animator]

I'm running Maya 5.01 on mac osX 10.2.8.

I'm having the same problems as EtherealWhisper.

I have both what is reported in the Console window and the Maya crash log.

====== this is the console ======
Mar 6 03:20:48 My-Name-Computer WindowServer[187]: Reserved range exhausted. (0xbbeeb000 to 0xbc02e000 goes out of bounds)

Mar 6 03:20:51 My-Name-Computer crashdump: Crash report written to: /Users/adam/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/Maya.crash.log


== Maya 5.0 fatal error =====

Attempting to save the scene as: /Users/me/Documents/temp/me.20040306.0320.ma
Mar 6 03:23:20 My-Computer-Computer WindowServer[187]: Reserved range exhausted. (0xbbc92000 to 0xbc198000 goes out of bounds)

==== this is the Maya crash log====

**********

Date/Time: 2004-03-06 03:20:50 -0800
OS Version: 10.2.8 (Build 6R73)
Host: My-Computer-Computer.local.

Command: Maya
PID: 817

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000000

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x001b5620 in 0x1b5620
#1 0x00a3908c in getGLBitmap__8TxpmUtilFPCcRlRl
#2 0x00a60b18 in GetXPMOffscreen__FRC7Tstring
#3 0x0093be14 in doIdleLoadIcon__23TiconTextControlDisplayFRC6Tevent
#4 0x0093cb44 in doIt__15TloadIconActionFRC6Tevent
#5 0x0093c7e4 in setIcon__23TiconTextControlDisplayFRC7Tstringl
#6 0x009f2fe4 in doEditFlags__19TelfIconTextBa
#7 0x009f252c in doEditFlags__21TelfIconTextButtonCmdFv
#8 0x04ab9188 in doEditFlags__15TshelfButtonCmdFv
#9 0x009c11e4 in doCreate__11TiceBaseCmdFv
#10 0x009c1608 in doCommand__11TiceBaseCmdFR8TargList
#11 0x005b9248 in Mel_Command_Dispatch__FP7SphNode
#12 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#13 0x005f4204 in 0x5f4204
#14 0x005ef4d8 in sophia_call_executable
#15 0x0061f2c0 in evaluate__16SophiaExecutableFPv
#16 0x005c2180 in executeCommand__14TcommandEngineFP16SophiaExecutablePv
#17 0x008d5498 in doCommand__11TelfEvalCmdFR8TargList
#18 0x005b9248 in Mel_Command_Dispatch__FP7SphNode
#19 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#20 0x005f4a38 in f_catch
#21 0x005f551c in fc_if
#22 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#23 0x005f5630 in fc_if
#24 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#25 0x005f5630 in fc_if
#26 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#27 0x005f50e4 in fc_for
#28 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#29 0x005f4204 in 0x5f4204
#30 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#31 0x005f5630 in fc_if
#32 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#33 0x005f54a0 in fc_ifelse
#34 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#35 0x005f4204 in 0x5f4204
#36 0x005ef4d8 in sophia_call_executable
#37 0x0061f2c0 in evaluate__16SophiaExecutableFPv
#38 0x005c2180 in executeCommand__14TcommandEngineFP16SophiaExecutablePv
#39 0x008d5498 in doCommand__11TelfEvalCmdFR8TargList
#40 0x005b9248 in Mel_Command_Dispatch__FP7SphNode
#41 0x005f0cdc in 0x5f0cdc
#42 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#43 0x005f54a0 in fc_ifelse
#44 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#45 0x005f54b4 in fc_ifelse
#46 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#47 0x005f4204 in 0x5f4204
#48 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#49 0x005f5630 in fc_if
#50 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#51 0x005f4204 in 0x5f4204
#52 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#53 0x005f4ad8 in f_source_cmd
#54 0x005ef4d8 in sophia_call_executable
#55 0x0061f2c0 in evaluate__16SophiaExecutableFPv
#56 0x005c2180 in executeCommand__14TcommandEngineFP16SophiaExecutablePv
#57 0x008d5498 in doCommand__11TelfEvalCmdFR8TargList
#58 0x005b9248 in Mel_Command_Dispatch__FP7SphNode
#59 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#60 0x005f5630 in fc_if
#61 0x005ef3c0 in node_exec
#62 0x005f5630 in fc_if
#63 0x005ef4d8 in sophia_call_executable
#64 0x0061f2c0 in evaluate__16SophiaExecutableFPv
#65 0x005c02cc in sourceFile__14TcommandEngineFRC7Tstringl
#66 0x001e9a74 in initGUI__8TmayaAppFv
#67 0x008a07d0 in start__12TapplicationFv
#68 0x001e6ba0 in maya_resume__Fv
#69 0x045aa59c in flex_init (main.c:58)
#70 0x004d35b0 in flex_init
#71 0x001e6fa8 in main

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x001b5620 srr1: 0x0200f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x20000000 lr: 0x00a3c778 ctr: 0x001b5610 mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0x001b5610 r1: 0xbfff9bd0 r2: 0x02505000 r3: 0x00000000
r4: 0x0249c46f r5: 0x00000004 r6: 0xffffffff r7: 0x00000000
r8: 0x00000000 r9: 0x00000000 r10: 0x00000038 r11: 0xa02216b4
r12: 0x02506708 r13: 0x00000000 r14: 0x02496264 r15: 0x00000000
r16: 0x00000000 r17: 0x00000000 r18: 0x00000000 r19: 0x024e9d8c
r20: 0xbfffddb8 r21: 0xbfffd9d0 r22: 0xffffffff r23: 0x02491ef0
r24: 0x02491ee8 r25: 0x00000000 r26: 0x00000000 r27: 0x02497124
r28: 0x00000000 r29: 0xbfffc538 r30: 0x00000001 r31: 0xbfff9bd0


And just so you know... I've no idea what any of that means.

Hope this helps.
:beer: :beer:

[Octagon]

Originally posted by of_the_animator
I'm running Maya 5.01 on mac osX 10.2.8.

[...]

And just so you know... I've no idea what any of that means.

Hope this helps.
:beer: :beer:


You don't expect me to get anything out of that crash log do you? ;) No seriously, I have no idea what's wrong.

whisper: There shouldn't be any scripts in the shelves folder besides the mz_PuppetMaster.mel shelf file. All scripts should go in your $MAYA_APP_DIR/scripts folder or another folder on your $MAYA_SCRIPT_PATH (just in case there was a misunderstanding).

Matthias

[of_the_animator]

You say that there shouldn't be any other scripts in the shelves folder except for the puppet master, but all the Maya scripts go there. On a Mac they do anyway.

Here's the list of scripts in the shelf folder.

shelf_Animation.mel
shelf_Curves.mel
shelf_Custom.mel
shelf_Deformation.mel
shelf_Dynamics.mel
shelf_General.mel
shelf_General.mel716994
shelf_PaintEffects.mel
shelf_Polygons.mel
shelf_RadiantSquare.mel
shelf_Rendering.mel
shelf_Subdivs.mel
shelf_Surfaces.mel

It may not help, but thought I'd chime in.

Adam

[EtherealWhisper]

Yeah, I think I put your scripts in the right place, although I haven't had a chance to go in and work on it like I said I would (I'm on spring break):buttrock:
The only scripts I have in the shelves directory are the custom scripts I had already made plus the puppet master one.

[Octagon]

Originally posted by of_the_animator
You say that there shouldn't be any other scripts in the shelves folder except for the puppet master, but all the Maya scripts go there. On a Mac they do anyway.

Here's the list of scripts in the shelf folder.

shelf_Animation.mel
shelf_Curves.mel
shelf_Custom.mel
shelf_Deformation.mel
shelf_Dynamics.mel
shelf_General.mel
shelf_General.mel716994
shelf_PaintEffects.mel
shelf_Polygons.mel
shelf_RadiantSquare.mel
shelf_Rendering.mel
shelf_Subdivs.mel
shelf_Surfaces.mel

It may not help, but thought I'd chime in.

Adam

By saying "no other scripts should go into the shelves folder" I meant you shouldn't copy the Puppet Master scripts there, except for the Puppet Master shelf mel file mz_PuppetMaster.mel ( I don't refer to shelf mel files as "scripts", but as "shelves". )

If you have installed Puppet Master like described here and it the readme, there's nothing more I can do to fix the OSX issues, I'm afraid :(

MAtthias

[gunslingerblack]

first off i just wanted to say that your a godsend dude, this thing is so simple and great that even my computer illiterate girlfriend could do it. it's a wonderful thing for those who have a hard time rigging, like myself. i just have one quick question though and ive uploaded images to show you, when i tried it out i was just fooling around with the settings and stuff but i left everything pretty standard, but when i moved onto the final step the head rotated all wierd and not on center, do u know what might be the problem?

ps, i tried to figure out how to rig the model and im having trouble interpreting the controls, they seem straightforward but whenever i click "skin list items" they dont skin any suggestions, haha is there tutorial documentation included with the software that im just too lazy to find? anyways thank you for your assistance

[Firas]

hi all,

i'd like to thank matthies for his nice tool, i just run it and its very nice ..

but i have a question her ..

whats the different between Final Rig and Puppet Master ?

i think we need someone that has experince in using both to answer ..

[Octagon]

Originally posted by gunslingerblack
first off i just wanted to say that your a godsend dude, this thing is so simple and great that even my computer illiterate girlfriend could do it. it's a wonderful thing for those who have a hard time rigging, like myself. i just have one quick question though and ive uploaded images to show you, when i tried it out i was just fooling around with the settings and stuff but i left everything pretty standard, but when i moved onto the final step the head rotated all wierd and not on center, do u know what might be the problem?

ps, i tried to figure out how to rig the model and im having trouble interpreting the controls, they seem straightforward but whenever i click "skin list items" they dont skin any suggestions
[...]



Hi there,

thanx for your kind words. I tried to make the tools as easy as possible and I'm glad many of you appreaciate.
As to your neck setup problem it would be best if you could send me your saved out adjusters file so that I can see if you have something going on there that Puppet Master doesn't understand. You can save the addjusters file in the template skeleton step (where you have all those red and grey spheres) in the load/save tab. Look in the "save" folder of your Puppet Master base dir. It should be a file without extension and the name you chose when saving the adjusters.

The "skin list items" buttons skins only SELECTED items on the list. This is to allow to load all your joints and geoms into the lists and skin selectively, thus increasing performance (not all joints need to influence all geoms).

Send me your adjusters file (mail it).

Matthias

[Octagon]

Originally posted by Firas
hi all,

i'd like to thank matthies for his nice tool, i just run it and its very nice ..

but i have a question her ..

whats the different between Final Rig and Puppet Master ?

i think we need someone that has experince in using both to answer ..

Well, I had a look at Final Rig. It came out one month before I finished my first prototype so I was kind of pixxxx someone got out a "decent" autorigger before I did ;) I think they've done a nice job with Final Rig, considering there's a free version of it, I think.
I like the level of UI work they've done for it (animation controls window etc.) but I don't like the somewhat complex controls and their color-coding and so on.
One of the bigger differences between the two tools is that Final Rig has a FK/IK spline built in, which is nice.
On the other hand Puppet Master has the possibility to use a referenced deformation skeleton, which can be quite powerful if utilized correctly (it's kind of a experimental feature though to put in an autorigger).
After all, I'd advise you to choose whatever makes the best rigs for you appliance (testing them both shouldn't take too much time)

cheers,
Matthias

[gunslingerblack]

i sent the file check the email u provided in the readme of puppetmaster. if you would like me to send it to a different email please tell me

[Octagon]

Originally posted by gunslingerblack
i sent the file check the email u provided in the readme of puppetmaster. if you would like me to send it to a different email please tell me

I got your file and sent you back my finished rig I've done with it. It went without any problems at all.

Are you working on 4.5? I used Puppet Master on 5.01 for this one.

Matthias

[Firas]

hi..

after 1 hour of testing PuppetMaster & FinalRig .. i have this compareson, ITS NOT COMPLETE YET .. because i didnt skin and animate with both .. but hope we can complete it together :

PuppetMaster :

PLUS POINTS:

+ Arm Bones more advanced.

+Twist Attr for Arms & Legs (much better than forcing the animator to play with polar locators.)

+locator to move the upperbody with hands together.

+pelvis rotation without effecting the spline.

WEAK POINTS :

- hands & fingers are very basic, there is problem in fingers oriantations.
- No dummy character (lowpoly skeleton)
- No Streatching abilities for arms,legs & spline.


on the other hand, FinalRig :

PLUS POINTS:

+ very good Fingers Ctrls
+ lowPoly Skeleton ( does not add much, but nice)
+ streatching (not needed in most of my cases)

WEAK POINTS :

- bad spline controll
- not friendly locators.



now ..

i can say that i'll use PuppetMaster in my next project, for few important reasons :

1. it was test in a production line (ANNIE & BOO)
2. i like the spline controll more than FinalRig
3. all the plus points on it.

but i need to redo the fingers controlls.

Matthias, i understand u r bussy, but when are u planing to fix the fingers oriantaion & finger curl/bend attributes ?

also i hope oneday .. maybe me or someone else .. add the Bidirectional Constrain plugin - By Do Hyun Jee - inside PuppetMaster .. and then i garante that all maya animators will prefere to use it.

[Octagon]

Originally posted by Firas
hi..
[...]


now ..

i can say that i'll use PuppetMaster in my next project, for few important reasons :

1. it was test in a production line (ANNIE & BOO)
2. i like the spline controll more than FinalRig
3. all the plus points on it.

but i need to redo the fingers controlls.

Matthias, i understand u r bussy, but when are u planing to fix the fingers oriantaion & finger curl/bend attributes ?



Hi Firas,

thanx for your appreciation! But I'd like to clear up, that "Annie and Boo" was NOT animated using Puppet Master. I don't know where you got that information? Johannes Weiland (director and animator of Annie and Boo) used his own rig (which was very simple by the way) for all the characters as far as I know. And I was working in the room next to him. So ... please ... don't confuse this :))

Actually there's nothing really "wrong" with the finger joints orientation. But the thing is, that you need to be very careful to place the adjuster objects correctly (see the "character_example" adjusters file that you can load) or your axes will be set up incorrectly.

But, if you want to have curl attrs for the fingers you should definately read up on mel. Making those drivenKeys is like 10 lines of code (make custom attrs on control, set drivenKeys on joints) that you can take from the script editor and modfiy and reuse for the other fingers.
By the way, if you're not comfortable with Puppet Masters finger setup at all, just delete it. There are many good joint auto-orienting scripts available (my own is included with Puppet Master, mz_OrientJoint) so setting up finger controls manually really shouldn't take too much time.

I cannot give you a date when I'm going to do a new and improved version of PuppetMaster. I dont see a chance of working on it for the next 8 weeks :hmm:

Matthias

[Firas]

:p maybe my misderstand cames from the avis on your portfolio.. sorry for that.. but anyway PuppetMaster still good ..


about the hand & fingers .. i run PuppetMaster without moving any finger place .. and change the Fist Attribute .. check it .. and i'll post screenshot later for to show u that.

did u check Bidirectional Constrain ? i'd like to hear your comments on it.

thankx

[Octagon]

Originally posted by Firas
:p maybe my misderstand cames from the avis on your portfolio.. sorry for that.. but anyway PuppetMaster still good ..


about the hand & fingers .. i run PuppetMaster without moving any finger place .. and change the Fist Attribute .. check it .. and i'll post screenshot later for to show u that.

did u check Bidirectional Constrain ? i'd like to hear your comments on it.

thankx

running puppet master without changing the finger default adjuster positions will result in incorrectly oriented joints (because all adjusters are created in a straight line without any bend direction) and thus driven keys doing odd things.

now i know this kind of sucks. but it shouldn't be much of a problem when rigging an actual model, since hands shouldn't be modeled in a straight pose but in a relaxed pose after all.

anyways, if you load the "character_example" adjuster file to see you can see how to move the adjusters in order to get working orientations and driven keys for hands.

cheers,
matthias

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