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newbefactor
09-09-2011, 04:48 PM
Hi there was wondering if someone could help me. I'm pretty new to 3ds max and i wanted to make a bunch of realistic trees. If i use the trees that are already in max it slows max right down for some reason so i think having a bunch of them is going to be out of the question (looking to make 15-20 trees)
If anyone has any better idea's I'd be so grateful
Thanks in advance

MisterS
09-09-2011, 08:15 PM
You can add textures to the AEC trees in max and you can get pretty good results. What spec is your PC - perhaps that's the problem.

plastic
09-09-2011, 08:19 PM
When you copy tree meshes, make sure that you don't copy but instance them. This will conserve memory when rendering.
For better viewport performance, switch the view mode to box, in the object properties.
If you're serious about tree rendering, get the free Itoo Forest plugin, this is the way to go for massive vegetation rendering.

newbefactor
09-09-2011, 09:21 PM
system spec wise i have 4gb ram with dual core 2.00ghz processor. Planing to upgrade to 8gb ram by end of year, and if possible might do a processor upgrade or just get new laptop next year.

thanks plastic gonna download the plugin you said.

Diffus3d
09-10-2011, 01:52 AM
Although the web site is truly horrendous, and the GUI for the program is 15 years ago, Onyx Tree remains my favorite for trees. A bit spendy but huge amounts of control and customization. I've heard good things about Vue as well, though I've never had occasion to try it.

Ahmad2007
09-10-2011, 07:42 AM
Although the web site is truly horrendous, and the GUI for the program is 15 years ago, Onyx Tree remains my favorite for trees. A bit spendy but huge amounts of control and customization. I've heard good things about Vue as well, though I've never had occasion to try it.


yeah Vue tree it's really cool you can control's how many polygon in tree mesh you need
this feature save me in a lot scenes :applause:

newbefactor
09-10-2011, 01:20 PM
I've tried using the tree's from vue in max but it just takes such a long time to render and even then the render came out all grainy (and that was with high settings)
The itoo forest plugin is doing for the job for the moment, only problem is the 3d trees look a bit crappy if your looking at them from the side.

ddustin
09-10-2011, 07:02 PM
We have Onyx and use it at times, but when we really want good looking trees we buy them from evermotion. The render time can be pretty high though..

David

newbefactor
09-10-2011, 09:16 PM
Well i've gone back to using vue inside max. It's easier to create what i want but it's just the rendering never came out right. Idea's anyone ? i turned up anti aliasing to min 16 max 64 and final gather to very high and it still came out all grainy :( I don't get the problem if i just use vue on it's own but the render engine on that software is so crap and takes so long. So rendering it with mental ray in max seems like the best option - but guess not from the problems i'm having. I'm basic at rendering in max so i must be missing something.

MisterS
09-11-2011, 07:27 AM
Grain/noise can be caused for a number of reasons, AA settings, Final Gather, Shadow samples, reflection samples, bitmap filtering etc.

Can you post a render and your various settings

newbefactor
09-11-2011, 02:35 PM
Okay there's two previews i done.
I've only ever changed the anti aliasing settings as i didn't know the other settings would effect the video. Should of really brought myself a book on rendering, by the way i am using mental ray as the rendering but the light (sun) is coming from the atmosphere in the vue interface.

This one is only 1 second but the anti aliasing was set at min 16 max 64:
http://www.4shared.com/video/iP9CXcWG/Anti_alais_min_16_max_64.html

And this one is 3 seconds with anti aliasing set to min 4 max 16:
http://www.4shared.com/video/rsdEAua7/Anti_alais_min_4_max_16.html

vlad
09-11-2011, 02:38 PM
Get hi-rez models here :

http://rendering.ru/ru_en/models.html
http://www.3dmentor.ru/shop.html
http://www.evermotion.org/modelshop/

Scatter them with MultiScatter, ForestPro, GroundWiz or proxy them and paint them around with something that supports proxies like Neil Blevin's Object Painter.
Voila ;)

newbefactor
09-11-2011, 03:13 PM
Get hi-rez models here :

http://rendering.ru/ru_en/models.html
http://www.3dmentor.ru/shop.html
http://www.evermotion.org/modelshop/

Scatter them with MultiScatter, ForestPro, GroundWiz or proxy them and paint them around with something that supports proxies like Neil Blevin's Object Painter.
Voila ;)

Thanks for the useful links, but i didn't really wanna spend money on trees. I have ways to do them like using vue etc but just getting problems rendering.

vlad
09-11-2011, 07:21 PM
Well, you should really get aquainted with proxies then. Havent played much with MR's proxy system, but Vray can chew out literally billions of polys with proxies and scatter tools. I've come to a point in my work (archviz) where I use less and less photo backplates and build my own forest backgrounds with above mentionned tools. And I've never heard of anyone that hasnt had any problems with Xstream in one form or another ;)

newbefactor
09-11-2011, 09:12 PM
Well, you should really get aquainted with proxies then. Havent played much with MR's proxy system, but Vray can chew out literally billions of polys with proxies and scatter tools. I've come to a point in my work (archviz) where I use less and less photo backplates and build my own forest backgrounds with above mentionned tools. And I've never heard of anyone that hasnt had any problems with Xstream in one form or another ;)

It's annoying cos xstream is such a good program - it's the program i started on. Really makes it easy to get into 3d animation, been struggling with the 3ds max learning curve.
I've heard good things about vray, been reading about vray scatter. What do you use for your trees ? plugin, scripts or model them yourself ?

vlad
09-11-2011, 10:55 PM
Life is much to short too model trees :D But seriously, we bought trees from the aforementioned librairies and use a combination of Multiscatter, Object Painter and manual placement. But if you want to generate your own trees, there's Onyx, Xfrog, Speedtree, GrowFX, NatFX, Arboretum and some others which names escape me.

Airflow
09-12-2011, 12:30 PM
Just use the trees that come with 3dsmax (Aec extended/Foliage). And as said before use a scatter program or max's (Graphite/ Object Paint). Read up on Mray Proxy objects. If you have Vray its way better for proxies. You could do with more ram too. I would forget about Vue its far to slow and fiddly for a quick turnaround.

MisterS
09-12-2011, 04:50 PM
Well i've gone back to using vue inside max. It's easier to create what i want but it's just the rendering never came out right. Idea's anyone ? i turned up anti aliasing to min 16 max 64 and final gather to very high and it still came out all grainy :( I don't get the problem if i just use vue on it's own but the render engine on that software is so crap and takes so long. So rendering it with mental ray in max seems like the best option - but guess not from the problems i'm having. I'm basic at rendering in max so i must be missing something.

I think you need higher AA samples - imagine for example if you only had one sample per pixel (rather than your settings): for every pixel in your render frame buffer, it would send out one sample.
Each pixel could encompass for example 100 leaves, a few branches, some direct lighting and some shadows etc and you're single sample can only return one colour value which will not be accurate. Even with 64 samples (the renderer will then interpolate the results) this may not be enough to provide and accurate result when there is lots of geometry and contrast in the distance.

For stills that may not cause an issue but when you render an animation, it will not sample exactly the same parts of your scene each frame hence why you get flickering - the renderer is sampling different parts of your scene on every frame.

The same applies to other settings like final gather. So I'm not sure that there is a solution apart from use higher settings.

Personally I'd try and use some trees mapped to planes if they're in the distance - that way your bitmap filtering can help out too.

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