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rudiHammad
08-24-2011, 10:52 PM
Hi

I have always modeled with max and now I changed to maya and I am sloooow sloooow at modeling here.
I have just some quick questions:
1-no extruding edges?!Everytime I do that I have to go to the menu creating a node in the outputs?Thatīs crazy.I will end ip with hundreds of nodes. Is this normal in maya?do you keep deleting the history to clean up the nodes?
2-how do I I constraint to edges?

I know that I can do short cuts but I donīt want to mess up maya.

thanks.

rH

HonestAbe
08-25-2011, 05:01 AM
With your edges selected,
hold Shift and right-click,
you will see "Extrude Edges".

Yes, delete history if you want to clean it up.

I've never used Max;
maybe someone knows, specifically,
what you mean.

rudiHammad
08-25-2011, 09:56 AM
thanks.
This is what I was doing, but I though that creating a node for each extrusion couldnīt be posible.
In max I modeled an entire body starting with a plane in eyelid, and then I started to extrude ande extrude edges. Doing that in maya will create many many maaaany nodes that Iīll have to clean later. But I guess thatīs the way maya operates. In max it much simpler and faster.
But I have to say that i like more mayaīs viewport.

When I say edge constraint I mean that when you select a vetex and move it, the vertex will slide across the edges (not in world space)

One moe thing, in max you have merge edges. It is like the vertex merge but for edges, so instead of merging 2 vertexes(one vertex, and the other,so 2 steps),merging egdes will do that for you in 1 step instead of 2. I tried the merge edge tool but I can figure out how to use it. It does the same thing that max?

rH

eikonoklastes
08-25-2011, 11:14 AM
Nodes are normal. There's a Delete History command that gets rid of every non-essential node. Check the Hotkey Editor for the shortcut or to create your own shortcut.

Unfortunately, there is no Slide Vertex command in Maya.

You can use this workaround for the same result:
- Enter Vertex mode.
- Press and hold w and hold LMB to bring up the Move tool marking menu.
- Go South West to 'Axis' and then South to 'Set to Edge'.
- Select the edge the vertex lies on.

Now the axis will be oriented along the edge and you can simply move the vertex along it.

Efficiency note: you don't have to wait for the marking menu to show up. Once you know where the item is, you can press and hold w, LMB hold and then just trace the correct path to the item (in this case down-left, down).

Once you learn this technique, you'll be executing commands at super speed.

rudiHammad
08-25-2011, 11:48 AM
Ok,thanks. I am starting to get how to model faster.
The set to edge technique doesnīt work as good as in max.In max you can set to more then one edge, here just one edge is allowed right?

I see that there is also a repite comand shortcut with "G" so thatīs nice.

earlyworm
08-25-2011, 01:55 PM
You can turn construction history off if you don't want to have lot's of history nodes created. I just have the delete history command assigned to a hotkey and press it every so often to have a clean shape node.

To slide a vertex along an edge, select the vertex and hold down the 'c' key (to toggle 'snap to curve' on). MMB on the edge and slide the vertex along the edge.

rudiHammad
08-25-2011, 03:05 PM
cool. good to know.


I am thinking about more tools that I miss from max, but in the end I used few. Cuting, extruding, connecting rings...oh!!heres another one I use a lot:

When I am working on the fingers, I do one "master" finger and then 5 copies references. So when I work in the master, adding polygones etc...the other 5 update too. I used that because some time I fiund out later that I needed to change the finger topology, so this way I donīt have to do it 5 times.You know what I mean? Soo, can you copy referencing in maya?

ps:Iīve edited the post,because I asked how to chamfer I and just so how on you tube,

jaydru
08-25-2011, 03:28 PM
to slide a vert along an edge (if the edge is one the the vert is conected to) its quicker to just hold "c" and mmb drag along that edge

you are talking about instanced geometry select your finger and type instance into the mel line then move the new finger into place, changes made to finger a will then effect finger B C D

rudiHammad
08-25-2011, 04:05 PM
ok.And then to make the instance unique you just combine with the other mesh right?
It is weird that you have to go trough command for that.Maya people donīt use instances to often or what?

Other thing that it is cool in max is that you can put an editpoly over an editpoly. I use that in the following case:If I want to introduce some changes in the mesh (adding polys, changing the shape of the character to test diferent looks,etc...) but I am not sure about it, I do all those changes in another editpoly. If I like I collapse both editpolys (kind of deleteing history) if I donīt, I delete the editpoly I just did and everythings goes back to they way it was before.
It is cool because you can turn the editpoly on and off to compare the changes.Sooo, what about that in maya? (blendShapes is not a solution because the number of poligones might be different)

I am starting to get use ti modeling in maya, thanks. :bounce:

HonestAbe
08-25-2011, 05:34 PM
Rudi,
I'm curious: what motivated you to switch from Max to Maya?

I've never understood what Max is more inline with.
What kind of work would make someone choose Max, instead of Maya?

rudiHammad
08-25-2011, 07:44 PM
I am actually a character TD.I started in cg with max(I did the rigging for Alma short film for example) But then I switched to maya because I like it much much more for the rigging and programing.(I also render with renderman for maya).But I kept using max for modeling because it is easier and I love being able to put a editpoly over an editpoly for the reason I mentioned in the post before.
But it is a pain having to export always to maya my models,and also now I am usin a mac and max isnīt available (only installing windows on mac). Sooo, I changed to maya.

Also, here in spain, most studios use max. Maya isnīt use so much. But I planning on leaving as soon as I can to UK or US and there maya is used a lot. So I guess the country were you are living could make you choose one soft or another

HonestAbe
08-25-2011, 08:58 PM
I appreciate the explanation. :-]

I'm not aware of anything like 'editpoly' in Maya.
Maybe someone else knows.

Clappy3D
08-25-2011, 09:27 PM
Hey Rudi,

There is no ideal non-destructible way to model in Maya. Maya will stack the history in the inputs of your channel box, but the results are unpredictable when adjusting various layers in the history inputs. Also, your scene will start to slow down as the history starts to build up.

Once you have a feel for the Maya tools you should check out this polymodeling plugin called NEX - http://draster.com/nex-1.5/

The developer comes from a MAX background so you will feel quite at home with the tools. Some of the features include: sliding verts, symmetry which reflects topology changes, retopology tools, multi-componant selection mode, connect with slide and pinch options, etc etc...

Here are scripts you will want as well:

Make Planar - http://www.funkybunnies3d.com/tools.php

Wire Jumbler - http://www.funkybunnies3d.com/tools.php

Smooth Edge Loops (conforms to the curve of the surface when inserting edge loops, no flat spots - there are two scripts in the package you want gesturePolysplit) - http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/modeling/poly-tools/c/cly_gesturesmoothing-mel--2

Paint Geometry on Surface - http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/modeling/poly-tools/c/sppaint3d

HK Local Tools - http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/utility-external/misc/c/local-tools

Detach Seperate - (natively Maya groups the detached geometry with the original - which is a pain in the butt) - http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/polygon/c/detachseparate-mel

With these scripts and NEX your fully loaded.

Cheers,
Matt

rudiHammad
08-25-2011, 10:09 PM
wow, thanks a lot for the links.
I was excited about nex plugin but it is not available for mac. it is a pain having to go into downloading scripts to get the best tools for modeling. Too bad they are not by default with maya. Maybe maya 2013...

I was just about to ask about how to make vertexs planar.
How would you make it planar without the make planar tool?

Thanks guys, you are making easy the transition for me. :thumbsup:

Clappy3D
08-25-2011, 10:15 PM
Without scripting - you have to "make planar" the old fashioned way - with the scale tool. Unfortunately this is not always ideal if your dealing with more complex shapes, the script I posted does a good job of dealing with these situations (most of the time).

Cheers,
Matt

HonestAbe
08-26-2011, 05:32 AM
There are two other methods that might help you,
for sliding vertices along edges,
although they will effect other connected edges.

• Select one (or more) edges,
• then Shift + Right-click
• select 'Slide Edge Tool'
• Middle Mouse button to slide it

• Select one (or more) edges,
• then Shift + Right-click
• select 'Transform component'
• then click the box at the end of any axis handle
and then click and drag the blue box in the center to scale.

Enjoy!

rudiHammad
08-26-2011, 03:19 PM
got it.Thanks.

I think I am now good to go because most of the tools have been covered.
I modeled 2 times slower that I did with max, but guess with practice iīll get there. :arteest:
Cheers

rudiHammad
08-27-2011, 05:38 PM
Is it possible to extrude edge in world axis direction? when I extrude by default I donīt have much control.

By the way, I donīt see the vertexes colored any more when I use soft selection. Did I touch any key or is that a bug? Iīve also noticed that when I assign a tool with shift+ctrl to a shelf, the tool doesīt show inmediatly. I have to select another shelf, and click back to first shelf to see it.Same for deleting tools from the shelf. Does an one else have this updating bug in maya 2012?

HonestAbe
08-27-2011, 06:23 PM
After you extrude, you will see what looks like a power symbol (a circle with a line through it) floating away from the direction handles. Click that to change to world.

Also, you can change to the normal move tool after you extrude. :-]

...

I have not had your other problems before, running 2012.

HonestAbe
08-27-2011, 06:28 PM
This video covers extrude and shows a pretty fun way to use curves and extrude:
link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsVPuOUmuQw)
I think you might enjoy watching it.

- • ○ • -

Also, the command line is not the only way to create an instance.
You can do this by going into the options for 'Duplicate Special'.
link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXI2gIgjffI)

rudiHammad
08-27-2011, 07:32 PM
cool! thanks. i didnīt notice the power symbol.Now it is easier. :bounce:
About the duplicate spetial video, it is like mirror cut tool right? It is interesting too.

About the "bugs" I mentioned, I donīt know, maybe it is the mac version.

edit: Is it possible to leave by default the power button on to extrude always in world axis?It is annoying having to push it each time.

HonestAbe
08-27-2011, 09:52 PM
Yes it's very similar to mirror cut.
I was being a bit lazy by posting that video ;)

You will notice, in the duplicate special options,
that it has translate, and number of copies,
so you can make several instances spaced the same (like cloning in 3dsmax)
I've been watching vids about Max ;-]
It seems like it might be less labor intensive for the type of modeling I'm interested in.
Maybe you have an opinion: link (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=7&t=1001226)
do you think Max has features that would
help with making this type of geometry?

I'm using PC, so maybe you are right about the bugs having to do with MAC.

I'm not sure about making world default for extrude,
maybe it is possible somehow with MEL.
You might find it easier using the method
shown at the end of that extrude video (switching to the move tool).

rudiHammad
08-27-2011, 11:56 PM
duplicating more than one obj as instance comes handy for fingers.

About what you ask concerning max.I am not sure because I donīt know all mayaīs modeling tool.But for me max is much much more easy.You find all in 1 modifier (thatīs how it is called named editpoly. If you never used max you definitely have to try it.
Maybe youīll find tools for that kind of modeling.I modeled ironman with max which a industrial kind of modeling.

Try it and if you have question,iīll be glad to help you out.

noiseOfId
08-28-2011, 06:04 AM
As for "editpoly", you could got to Hypershade or Hypergraph, list the nodetree, and bypass the latest edits by connecting an earlier node into the the ".input" of the shapeNode.
If u install SOUP (http://www.soup-dev.com/index.html) u get a nice shelf button that does these connections more convenient, so you don't have to use the connection editor all the time.
The new nodeEditor (maya 2012 Subscription pack) might also help with these things.

To make it more clear you can collect all the nodes you want to think of as "editpoly" into an asset/container.

rudiHammad
08-28-2011, 08:39 AM
wow,
a lot of content there.Nice link.
Iīll might try it out.

rudiHammad
09-07-2011, 05:21 PM
hello again,just a couple more question:
1-Is it possible to avoid back facing vertex? In max there is a checkbox option for that.(you know,so you can select on a front view without selecting the back.
2-any short cut to activate deactivate soft selection?
3-sometime I donīt know how I press the mid button, that make appear directly the menu of merge vertex or merge edge, instead of vertex,vertex face,edge etc..
4- I am modeling the right side of the body (left side on screen), and when I do a mirror cut in zy angle and move it to the other side, the mesh disappears. I was looking for a flip plane o mesh or something like that but I donīt see it.

Cheers :arteest:

Clappy3D
09-07-2011, 07:18 PM
hello again,just a couple more question:
1-Is it possible to avoid back facing vertex? In max there is a checkbox option for that.(you know,so you can select on a front view without selecting the back.
2-any short cut to activate deactivate soft selection?
3-sometime I donīt know how I press the mid button, that make appear directly the menu of merge vertex or merge edge, instead of vertex,vertex face,edge etc..
4- I am modeling the right side of the body (left side on screen), and when I do a mirror cut in zy angle and move it to the other side, the mesh disappears. I was looking for a flip plane o mesh or something like that but I donīt see it.

Cheers :arteest:

1 - you can check and uncheck backface culling in the "shading" menu in your viewport. Right inbetween "view" and "lighting".

2 - the "b" key is the soft selection toggle. While soft selection is active, if you hold the "b" key down and left click and drag, you can adjust the radius of the ss.

3 - the middle mouse + right click is context sensitive. If you select a vert and mmb-right will give you the merge vertex tool and well as other vertex orientated tools. If the whole object is select and mmb-right click you will get a more general suite of modeling tools.

4 - before you use mirror cut make sure you delete the "right" side. Also make sure you have wireframe on shaded active because your mirrored geometry won't have a shader assigned. So many times it is actually there, you just can't see it. With wireframe on shaded active you can see it, select it and assign it a shader. This tool is ideal for creating cornered geometry.

A better tool for a head would be the "mirror instance mesh" found in the Maya 2012 bonus tools. This tool gives you the -x or +x options you are used to and less history nodes. Once you are done modeling you can collapse using "combine and merge" also found in the bonus tools.

Cheers,
Matt

rudiHammad
09-07-2011, 09:46 PM
what can I say man.
Thanks a lot for answering all my questions. This is a big help :applause:

earlyworm
09-07-2011, 11:34 PM
For more control over backface culling on a per mesh basis, go to the shape node for your mesh (in the Attribute Editor) and under Mesh Component Display there is a dropdown box for backface culling options.

Wire will show the edges in the viewport but you won't be able to select the backfacing vertices and faces (can still select edges).

Hard, I've never used. Probably to do with hard/soft edges.

Full will hide backfacing components and you won't be able to select them.

rudiHammad
09-08-2011, 03:15 PM
got it. Thanks.
When I do the back face culling from the shading menu, i still can select the back vertexes.
So it actually from the mesh component display right?
You maya modelers donīt use that much? It is interesting to see how people manage modeling depending on the software.

well, I am using now the bonus tools. The mirror instance mesh is ok. but isnīy there a way yo do a instanced symmetry and have the middle vertex wield? because you canīt see all the mesh smoothed as if the mid points were wield. You wield them only at the end?

rudiHammad
09-08-2011, 03:26 PM
oh! before I forget, in max you can select a group of vertexes and the chose there pivot point. For example, if the arm is in a 45š angle and you want to put it at 90š you select the arm points and set the pivot at a point of the shoulder.That way you rotate the arm pretty well.
In maya the pivot point is always in the center of the group of vertexes? So you have to rotate,breaking badly the mesh temporally , and the translate to put the arm were it should be. You know what I mean?

goin
09-08-2011, 06:48 PM
this one is actually pretty easy as you just have to move the pivot for the component selection as you do when being in object mode. Just enter the pivot editing with either the insert key or press and hold the "D" key. Move and snap the pivot to your liking (the snapping in Maya is in my opinion much better than in max - always hated the max snapping) and then leave the pivot mode by either hitting insert again or releasing the "D" key.
One thing to note is that you have to be already in the tool (translate, rotate, scale) that you would like to use because otherwise the pivot snaps back. But here's a workaround for that: while editing the pivot you can see a little turquoise marker sticking out. Hit it and the pivot will stay there even when you switch the tool. Hit it again to make the pivot snap back when you change selection.

Hope that helps.

Cheers, Ingo

Clappy3D
09-08-2011, 07:57 PM
There is no native symmetry function which automatically welds the border edges. You do that process at the end.

I use NEX which has a proper symmetry mode where I can change topology on one side of the model and have it update on the other side.

Clappy3D
09-08-2011, 09:24 PM
One more important feature to learn for changing rotation axis:

At some point your going to position an object into place, think you are done and freeze the transformations. This will reset the pivot to world space at the center of the object. You do this before you rig.

Here's the problem, you decide your not done and you want to translate the object but the angle of the object does not match its pivot anymore because you have frozen the transforms.

You can change your objects rotational axis by going into componant mode and selecting the "?" This will give you a transform gizmo to rotate. Go back into object mode and set your move or scale tool to "along rotation axis".

Kabab
09-09-2011, 12:55 AM
Holding down w e r and left clicking will allow your to change the axis for move, rotate and scale respectively.

antweiler
09-09-2011, 09:08 AM
...
One thing to note is that you have to be already in the tool (translate, rotate, scale) that you would like to use because otherwise the pivot snaps back. But here's a workaround for that: while editing the pivot you can see a little turquoise marker sticking out. Hit it and the pivot will stay there even when you switch the tool. Hit it again to make the pivot snap back when you change selection.
...

WTF??? Im using Maya since 1998 and didnt know this trick! Thanks a LOT, Ingo!!

rudiHammad
09-09-2011, 01:12 PM
There is no native symmetry function which automatically welds the border edges. You do that process at the end.

I use NEX which has a proper symmetry mode where I can change topology on one side of the model and have it update on the other side.

damn it...Nex isnīt yet for mac. I donīt understand how this isnīt by default. Why mayaīs engineers didnīt thought about that yet? For instance I am modeling the belly button and I canīt see it round and smooth until I wield.It doesnīt look like a big deal but it would be nice to make it easier for modelers.I guess Iīll have to wait.

Thanks goin. Nice trick.

Now,in a none related subjects, I posted that days ago but didnīt get any response. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=7&t=1005309
Any idea?

TrueArt Support
09-10-2011, 04:40 AM
I am LightWave 3D modeling plugins developer. http://www.trueart.pl
Searching for ideas what can be improved in Maya modeling.
IMHO Maya modeling workflow is "not great" politically speaking, so I see a lot of things can be made better.

f.e. in LightWave artist has to select some points, edges or polygons to work with, press short-cut to run some modeling tool (only LightWave newbies in modeling use menus, as it's slow to search in them), then do operation like extrusion, and drop tool (press space), unselect elements (press /), and select new elements.
In Maya it's slightly reversed from what I see- first select elements, then pick up tool from drop-down list which will show tools only when right elements are picked? And then start operation of tool. Right? Then drop tool, and select new things etc.

Mine modeling tools are trying to be smart. Detecting automatically what user might want to do, depending on where user clicked and where moved mouse, and which button pressed.
f.e. EasyMesh http://easymesh.trueart.pl
in this modeling tool if user clicks left mouse button on any point, it's moved, if on edge, it's moved, if on polygon, it's moved. Without having to SELECT element in the first place.
if right mouse button is clicked on point, it's extruded (to 2 point poly chain), if right mouse button is used on edge, it's extruded to quad (so drawing quads is just a couple right mouse presses and moving mouse)
if right mouse button is clicked on edge, but mouse not moved - edge is split.
if left mouse button is clicked on point, but point is moved very close to edges - it's sliding point on edge.
etc etc

Here is example video
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/EasyMesh/Graphics/Movies/EasyMesh_1.mov

What Maya artist think about such workflow- one tool for everything, without having to change tools, without having to select elements.. ?

rudiHammad
09-10-2011, 12:36 PM
Looks great!
Well...leave lightWave and come to maya with those tools! :rolleyes:
Mayaīs modeling definitely is not great, thatīs way they do stuff like extrabonus tools, or the Nex plugin to model like in 3d max. But you get used to it.
by the way I think in pixar they use maya for modeling.

MasonDoran
09-10-2011, 03:41 PM
TrueArt Support,


There is already a filter command within Maya that you can use on a hotkey that will allow you to use any command you wish dependant upon the component that is selected. It is not transparent to general use for artists but not hard to figure out. There are plenty of old threads on here showing how to do context sensitive hotkeys.


If you really want to exploit the lack of modelling toolsets within Maya then ReTopology tools is going to be where its at.

rudiHammad
09-13-2011, 10:33 AM
.


then ReTopology tools is going to be where its at.

what is that?I have search for those tools but I donīt know which they are (deoīs retopoly tools?).

Another "amazing" thing I just saw is that if I isolate the arm (so the rest of the body is hidden) to work it better, and I start to cut polygons, as new polys are created, some start to get hidden too!! So the arm ends up having random holes.I guess thatīs because with every new poly created, the Ids are reassigned. So a visible polygon is assigned with a new Id that happened to be the Id of a hidden poly,and thatīs why it is hidden suddently.Does that make any sense? I canīt find another explanation.
Is there another way to work around that? Please donīt tell me to detach and the reattach and merge the vertexes.

Why they donīt take more time to get really better the modeling tools? I mean, all maya new features are great,but is really that important to have motion blur in real time in the viewport? I know I am new at maya modeling but you shouldnīt be an expert to be able to work individually the parts of the body. or is all that a bug that only happens to me?

ps:Goin, thanks for replying in the other post :thumbsup:

bk3d
09-14-2011, 07:08 PM
I come from a Max background too. I have been creating alot of tools for maya to simulate some features in Max. Its Called Ninja Dojo and available on Creative Crash. I have some video tutorials on how it works. Im always updating and adding new features so you can request features too.

http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/marketplace/scripts-plugins/interface-display/c/ninja-dojo-black-belt--2

You can also check out the ninja dojo web page.
http://www.bk3d.com/Ninja_Dojo/Dojo.htm

rudiHammad
09-18-2011, 08:57 PM
nice work bk3d. I am starting to get used to maya. The only thing I am missing is the middle points autoweilding that max symmetry does.

I am having this problem now. I have combined to meshes and wield their vertexes. The result is shown in the image. Why does that happen? I have soften all faces.

mlager8
09-19-2011, 12:38 PM
Make sure the normals are all facing the right way. Besides face normals there are also edge normals. Try using the conform button under the normals dropdown in the polygon menu set. If that dosent fix it try deleting one of the faces with an effected edge, then select an edge of the whole use "fill hole".
If that takes care of the edge it's an edge normal issue

rudiHammad
09-19-2011, 05:31 PM
thanks, it was the conform.

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